Trust vs. Deed

[Pjdani07]

Help! Purchased into Wydham WCA (Trust) in March 2019; used it for the first time and was told that my maintenance fees were going to be a huge burden for us and our children later on as they tend to go up 7-17% yearly! They basically said that we were played pretty bad on our purchase and that we should get a deed instead, as we would be paying about the same amount and our fees would go up only about 1-2%. (And our kids would be able to sell the equity later if they wanted). From reading the posts on this site it appears I may have time to cancel. Please advise... Did I make the wrong decision and if I do cancel will my first purchase go back to the way it was?? I thought perhaps they really w ere helping us but now I think I was fooled....AGAIN Thanks!

 

[Grammarhero]

Help! Purchased into Wydham WCA (Trust) in March 2019; used it for the first time and was told that my maintenance fees were going to be a huge burden for us and our children later on as they tend to go up 7-17% yearly! They basically said that we were played pretty bad on our purchase and that we should get a deed instead, as we would be paying about the same amount and our fees would go up only about 1-2%. (And our kids would be able to sell the equity later if they wanted). From reading the posts on this site it appears I may have time to cancel. Please advise... Did I make the wrong decision and if I do cancel will my first purchase go back to the way it was?? I thought perhaps they really w ere helping us but now I think I was fooled....AGAIN Thanks!

You should rescind. CWA isn’t that bad MF at $6.5MF/1k. Only deeded resorts worth getting (resale) are Canterbury, Bali hai, Natl Harbor, Panama City, Grand Desert, wakaki, Ocean Blvd, and Clearwater, all of which can be bought resale for $300 (Clearwater) to $1,200 (Canterbury) per 100k EY pts. I am attaching the MF chart.

With rescission, Your first purchase goes back to the same way it was. I have attached rescission instructions. How much would the rescission save you?

 

[Jan M.]

CWA does have higher maintenance fees than a lot of the resorts. For 2019 it is $5.99 per thousand points before the program fee. When we talk about maintenance fees we give the figures before the program fee because the program fee is different depending on if you own developer or resale points and if you don't own enough points to be over the minimum program fee.

Where did they have you buy that is deeded? They could actually have you jumping from the frying pan to the fire because there are resorts with even higher maintenance fees than CWA. Bonnet Creek is a popular resort with many people and the maintenance fees are $6.16 per thousand points.

Also how many CWA points did you have and how many points did they sell you this time?

Grand Desert isn't the very lowest when it comes to maintenance fees but it is in the lower range. Buildings 1 and 2 are $4.73 and building 3 is $4.82 per thousand points. If you aren't VIP and have no desire to reach a VIP level many people are going to suggest you buy resale. If you are looking for resale points Grand Desert is a good one to look for because you can usually find listings for points there at a good price. There are other resorts with lower maintenance fees but you are going to pay a lot more for those deeds when you buy resale.

My personal issue with CWA points is that you don't actually own anything like you do when you are deeded at a resort. With CWA Wyndham retains ownership of the deeds and you have a contract with Wyndham for the use of x number of points per year. Also not all resorts have inventory in CWA. With the resorts that do have inventory in CWA, some don't have a lot. So their claim of having early access to the CWA inventory at the resorts in CWA isn't always quite as rosy as it sounds. However many owners do find it advantageous to own CWA because it does give them early access to the CWA inventory at a number of resorts that have a larger amount of inventory in CWA.

 

[Jan M.]

I noticed that the CWA maintenance fee figure in the chart posted by Grammarhero isn't accurate. At $5.86 it doesn't include the $0.13 for the reserve fund. I don't remember who created the chart Grammarhero posted or if there are any other inaccuracies but it does give you some idea. You can also look at the stickies at the top of the Wyndham forums. There are stickies for the 2017, 2018 and 2019 maintenance fees. The 2017 stickie is two years out of date but the most extensive list.

 

[bendadin]

Help! Purchased into Wydham WCA (Trust) in March 2019; used it for the first time and was told that my maintenance fees were going to be a huge burden for us and our children later on as they tend to go up 7-17% yearly! They basically said that we were played pretty bad on our purchase and that we should get a deed instead, as we would be paying about the same amount and our fees would go up only about 1-2%. (And our kids would be able to sell the equity later if they wanted). From reading the posts on this site it appears I may have time to cancel. Please advise... Did I make the wrong decision and if I do cancel will my first purchase go back to the way it was?? I thought perhaps they really w ere helping us but now I think I was fooled....AGAIN Thanks!

What did you buy, where, and how much? CWA is fine IF you need ARP at one of those resorts. And how many CWA did you trade in? Rescission isn't always the best option. I'd totally trade in my CWA for the "right" contract at the "right" price.

 

[Pjdani07]

Thank-you both!

154k pts "traded" for "308k"
New contract:
$12k down + $5k Equity from original contract + $45k financed = $62k new loan cost
New loan is deed to NY45
Maint: $133/ month

Sales is texting me this morning to make sure that QA a time-stamped and submitted my paperwork in a timely manner because they were acting like the whole time that they were doing me a favor and I may not be able to get into a new contract for a deed. But it sounds like from what I am researching that all I did was a trade which of course was possible the whole time. I could be wrong though. I appreciate you!

 

[bendadin]

Thank-you both!

154k pts "traded" for "308k"
New contract:
$12k down + $5k Equity from original contract + $45k financed = $62k new loan cost
New loan is deed to NY45
Maint: $133/ month

Sales is texting me this morning to make sure that QA a time-stamped and submitted my paperwork in a timely manner because they were acting like the whole time that they were doing me a favor and I may not be able to get into a new contract for a deed. But it sounds like from what I am researching that all I did was a trade which of course was possible the whole time. I could be wrong though. I appreciate you!

I would rescind. You already purchased the CWA and even after that, you are paying $201/k for those 308,000. Granted MF are much lower, but even at 308k, it does nothing for you as far as VIP. That is a heck of a lot of money for no benefits.

Did you want/need more points? If so and VIP isn't something that you are going for, I would go into the resale market. I saw 195,000 points at Midtown 45 for around $1750 closed. That way you get more points, you pay less maintenance fees, and you keep your $62,000.

 

[Pjdani07]

Wow! Like $1,750.00 total and the only thing I pay for monthly is MF? Is the booking window 10 months? And I can add that to my already 154k for longer stays?

 

[Grammarhero]

Wow! Like $1,750.00 total and the only thing I pay for monthly is MF? Is the booking window 10 months? And I can add that to my already 154k for longer stays?

@Pjdani07 my go to source for free Wyndham Ts. https://www.timesharenation.com/resort/Wyndham-Points

 

[bendadin]

Wow! Like $1,750.00 total and the only thing I pay for monthly is MF? Is the booking window 10 months? And I can add that to my already 154k for longer stays?

Yes. I've not inquired if it is still available but PM me and I can point you in the direction.

 

[Pjdani07]

Thanks! I appreciate the info, but honestly I was completely content with my 154k pts until I was told that LVegas haggled me. Resale could definitely be an option that I will look into later. Right now my concentration is on learning as much as I can on TS in general!

 

[bendadin]

Thanks! I appreciate the info, but honestly I was completely content with my 154k pts until I was told that LVegas haggled me. Resale could definitely be an option that I will look into later. Right now my concentration is on learning as much as I can on TS in general!

Learn how to use what you own. Read, read, read.

Definitely rescind as you have a very finite amount of time to do so. Plus, they are going to start taking away your first contract and that will just be more headaches. Follow the instructions that are on a sticky to rescind.

 

[spackler]

I noticed that the CWA maintenance fee figure in the chart posted by Grammarhero isn't accurate. At $5.86 it doesn't include the $0.13 for the reserve fund.

I don't understand why CWA needs a "reserve fund" to begin with. Wouldn't reserves be covered by the underlying deeds?

 

[SNA27]

Never attend presentations at Midtown 45! It's worse than waterboarding torture with Joy Behar cackling at you like an enhanced interrogation technique!

How come they gave you only $5k against the original contract? Does that mean you still have a loan with Wyndham paying their usurious rates? Wow! what is the rate?

BAD IDEA to mortgage a depreciating asset like a TS, imo!

RESCIND!

 

[SNA27]

OP, just curious, at what stage did you capitulate?
In my case, I survived the minstrel, the wizard, and the liar! Then they brought in a blow-hard and a brow-beater rolled into one!
He claimed NY45 is worth more than the rest of Wyndham put together and I would be a damn fool for not getting in on such a sweet deal!
He had worked at CNBC blah blah and a financial genius blah blah! I am thinking 'so, you're all washed up and ended up here hustling the unwary?'.
But I dared not say it! After all, this is NY and I just want to escape in one piece!
Most unpleasant experience and what a relief it was to escape and get on with our sightseeing!

 

[SNA27]

CWA does have higher maintenance fees than a lot of the resorts. For 2019 it is $5.99 per thousand points before the program fee. When we talk about maintenance fees we give the figures before the program fee because the program fee is different depending on if you own developer or resale points and if you don't own enough points to be over the minimum program fee.

Where did they have you buy that is deeded? They could actually have you jumping from the frying pan to the fire because there are resorts with even higher maintenance fees than CWA. Bonnet Creek is a popular resort with many people and the maintenance fees are $6.16 per thousand points.

Also how many CWA points did you have and how many points did they sell you this time?

Grand Desert isn't the very lowest when it comes to maintenance fees but it is in the lower range. Buildings 1 and 2 are $4.73 and building 3 is $4.82 per thousand points. If you aren't VIP and have no desire to reach a VIP level many people are going to suggest you buy resale. If you are looking for resale points Grand Desert is a good one to look for because you can usually find listings for points there at a good price. There are other resorts with lower maintenance fees but you are going to pay a lot more for those deeds when you buy resale.

My personal issue with CWA points is that you don't actually own anything like you do when you are deeded at a resort. With CWA Wyndham retains ownership of the deeds and you have a contract with Wyndham for the use of x number of points per year. Also not all resorts have inventory in CWA. With the resorts that do have inventory in CWA, some don't have a lot. So their claim of having early access to the CWA inventory at the resorts in CWA isn't always quite as rosy as it sounds. However many owners do find it advantageous to own CWA because it does give them early access to the CWA inventory at a number of resorts that have a larger amount of inventory in CWA.

The program fee is different for developer points and resale? Could you please elaborate on this? Where can I info on this? Thx.

 

[Jan M.]

Yes the program fee is higher for developer points than for resale points. For 2020 it will be $0.62 per thousand points for resale and $0.64 for developer points. I don't have the minimum program for developer but for resale someone posted that it is now $160. That means you would need to own 259,000 points to be over the minimum program fee. Divide the minimum fee by $0.62 or $0.64 depending on what you own to get the number of points you would need to own to be over the minimum program fee.

People who only own resale don't pay the higher program fee because they don't get Plus Partners. Plus Partners is what allows you to book Worldmark units with an additional $99 fee.

 

[SNA27]

Wow, that's counter-intuitive!
It never occurred to me that developer points would get a higher program fee than resale points!
As a developer points owner, I would have liked it to be the other way around!
Human nature being what it is, I hope Wyndham finds a way to draw more blood from resale owners!

 

[SNA27]

Here's an idea! They charge me a nebulous processing fee of $395! Charge resale buyers an additional 'extreme-vetting' fee to root out strip-and-dump gamers of the system! Put every resale through a rigorous escrow process that extracts the unpaid MF! If I am a game for you to hunt, then so are you! Beware!

 

[Sandi Bo]

Resale owners pay maintenance fees and don't get benefits.

 

[Eric B]

Wow, that's counter-intuitive!
It never occurred to me that developer points would get a higher program fee than resale points!
As a developer points owner, I would have liked it to be the other way around!
Human nature being what it is, I hope Wyndham finds a way to draw more blood from resale owners!

The difficulty with that idea is that the extra $.02 you pay for developer points actually gets you something; access to the plus partner resorts for which you can't use resale points. You have enough developer points to use for those now and can add resale points if you like at a lower cost for the program fee. Human nature being what it is, you might buy some Wyndham stock because they will inevitably find ways to improve their profits from retail owners, resale owners, and exchangers using their resorts. It shouldn't be by charging customer X for what they give customer Y, though.

Just adding my 2 cents....

 

[Jan M.]

The difficulty with that idea is that the extra $.02 you pay for developer points actually gets you something; access to the plus partner resorts for which you can't use resale points. You have enough developer points to use for those now and can add resale points if you like at a lower cost for the program fee. Human nature being what it is, you might buy some Wyndham stock because they will inevitably find ways to improve their profits from retail owners, resale owners, and exchangers using their resorts. It shouldn't be by charging customer X for what they give customer Y, though.

Just adding my 2 cents....

If you have a developer account with resale points also in it you will pay the two cents more for the program fees on your resale points also.

 

[SNA27]

Resale owners pay maintenance fees and don't get benefits.

MF fees pay for the benefit of upkeeping your TS! No?

VIP benefits only apply during the 60-day discount window! I have to learn about other benefits that accrue to a VIP.

Apparently, I belong to some exclusive club called Outriggers! I haven't been able to learn the details. I have yet to earn any benefits from it. But, I guess, I must first learn before I can earn!

 

[SNA27]

Why is there an EXPIRE DATE?

 

[dgalati]

MF fees pay for the benefit of upkeeping your TS! No?

VIP benefits only apply during the 60-day discount window! I have to learn about other benefits that accrue to a VIP.

Apparently, I belong to some exclusive club called Outriggers! I haven't been able to learn the details. I have yet to earn any benefits from it. But, I guess, I must first learn before I can earn!

View attachment 15502

Exactly! Learn to earn all that Wyndham is offering.