Transfer from DRI to HGV - not sure if I did the right thing.

[ernststarhemberg]

Others know more about the deed exchange process. I know there are exchange restrictions for certain properties. Now that OP has bought into the system retail in Hawaii, is it possible to, say, go to a retail update at Boulevard and trade-in the Hawaii deeds for platinum Boulevard deeds? The retail mortgage will still be there but the MFs will be much, much lower.

 

[travellingfam]

You've been enjoying your 2020 purchase.

Do you know why your maintenance fee skyrocketed this year? Is it temporary?
Ask on the HVC forum. For example, there's some renovation work going on at DRI's Point at Poipu. See thread below.

Point at Poipu renovations

Renovations have started at the Point at Poipu, beginning with Building 6. Over the next several posts I'll put up some pics we took when we were there the last two weeks of October. I understand that the timing of the project was connected to the settlement of claims regarding building soffits...

tugbbs.com

This is great information - the kind that I am looking for. THANK YOU!

I have absolutely been enjoying my purchase. We use our points at the Hawaii locations (The Modern, Point at Poipu, and Kaanapali Beach Club) and elsewhere - we've been to Mystic Dunes in Florida and Cedar Breaks Lodge in Utah. We've absolutely loved the properties. It gives us what we need for a family of 4 with a full kitchen and enough rooms and bathrooms for everyone to feel comfortable. We also love the free family activities on site.

I should reconsider what I have said since you've shown me the Hawaii Collection Maintenance Fee Assessment from @youppi. That looks about right. Since we have 30,000 points, it has been going up about $425 each year.

My husband genuinely thought that going to a member update was absolutely necessary so that we could get information on how our DRI account and the properties have changed since acquisition by HGV. We did not know that it was another upselling scheme. I was certainly on guard and looking for all of the signs of a scheme and catching the sales person in his pitch when certain things he said went against what I had learned from my research. However, in the end my husband truly believed that the only way forward was to buy the KL deed.

The sales person said that our DRI MFs for 2025 would be at $10K and he showed us our DRI account on his iPad and it did show that number in the corner. If he hadn't shown us our account, I wouldn't have believed him. That is the very reason why we bought the KL deed at $100K. Because he said in a matter of 10 years, we would have spent $100K on MFs for our DRI points, so this way we could transfer it over to HGV and lower our MFs. I had a very hard time understanding the concept of that big picture, but my husband understood the math and gave the green light.

 

[travellingfam]

My DRI MFs are as listed for 30,000 pts:
2021 $5571.97
2023 $6189.12
2024 $6721.22
2025 projected MF from HGV sales guy was over $10K

 

[alwysonvac]

My DRI MFs are as listed for 30,000 pts:
2021 $5571.97
2023 $6189.12
2024 $6721.22
2025 projected MF from HGV sales guy was over $10K

The sales guy was simply trying to scare you.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I see $1870 to $2150 for a 2 BR? What am I missing?

You (everybody) is missing that it appears she has never stated both the Pts & the MFs of her KL purchase. It is almost always pulling teeth to get these threads to focus on the #s. GT did it, but she still hasn't responded to GT with the #s.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

you are paying $7k for 30k points so that is, 0.23 MF/pt but if you compare that to a deed with 0.10 MF/pt then the same 30k points is $3k

by my ests, HGVC pts (NOT DIAMOND) are worth maybe $0.30 best case, maybe $0.20 pretty easily, as little as $0.07 if you use them badly. below $.07 if you totally screw up. anyone agree?
If true, it is obvious that paying $0.23/yr for HGVC Pts provides "no value" and therefore has no value to sell
Corollary:
IF HGVC is "best" & Diamond is "better"
AND $0.23/yr is "worthless" for HGVC pts
THEN $0.23/yr is most definitely "worthless" for Diamond pts

 

[WaikikiFirst]

here's an equation I just made up for HGVC, cuz why not?
($1.7 x Pts) - (8.1 x MF) = Initial Cost so it also = Value you could sell it for

Everybody try that on their HGVC deed, esp a KL deed

again, HGVC, not Diamond. Diamond must be worse, ie that $1.7 factor would be lower. Diamond fans welcome to prove me wrong.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

The sales guy was simply trying to scare you.

absolutely. There are 4 or 5 things here where it is obvious travelfam was given a boogeyman or told something that can't happen (guarantee on a max for MFs? what??) or told something critical meant to mislead her (such as "constant points" are what matters, when what matters would be the assumption of constant costs, but constant points in no way means constant costs) or told a variety of other misleading things. That is why the only real advice is DON'T TALK TO THEM. This advice is for anyone who cannot do 1 of 2 things
a) understand all of those 4 or 5 things on the spot, in real-time
b) DEFINITELY DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. JUST REFUSE. KEEP YOUR HANDS HANDCUFFED IN YOUR POCKETS

 

[WaikikiFirst]

btw, using my equation (open for peer review ) the KL deeds GL listed definitely have value. check it out
a 1 bdrm fixed wk 51 or wk 52 deed may be a very different story. We don't have all the info.
Note this about salesppl: there is NO way travelfam told the salesperson that she wanted to go to KL every Wk 51 & Wk 52. We know that. Yet, travelfam claims that is exactly what the salesperson sold her. Sales is stranger than fiction.

 

[HudsHut]

My husband and I were Diamond Resorts owners. We bought in during 2020 (don't ask me what we were thinking) at $70k for the Hawaii Collection and got 30,000 points. We have been able to utilize our points and have been enjoying our purchase. We noticed that the maintenance fees skyrocketed this year at just under $7000. We went to a member presentation to receive an update and HGV convinced us to transfer out of Diamond trust points to deeded HGV points. After another $100,000 down, we walked away with a week during Christmas and a week during New Years at a 1 BR in King's Land, Hawaii (and a promise of the maintenance fees staying at $3000). We planned to write in to cancel our trust points, as we don't need them anymore.
I'm starting to wonder why we are now $170,000 in to this and instead of having a downpayment for a house, we are owners in a system that I find very hard to navigate. In the time that it's going to take me to learn the system, I feel like I will have lost the opportunity to rescind.
Does anyone have advice on what to do now? I just feel like every time we go to an owner update meeting, we are somehow convinced to put more money in.

Welcome to Tug @travellingfam

I've read the entire thread, but still am not certain whether you just bought the Hilton and can still cancel it.

If you are within the rescission period, stop typing here, and get that rescission document in the mail TODAY, Certified Return Receipt.

Save yourselves $100K!!!

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I've read the entire thread, but still am not certain whether you just bought the Hilton and can still cancel it.

LOL. So it goes. So much advice. So little certainty

 

[Mongoose]

You (everybody) is missing that it appears she has never stated both the Pts & the MFs of her KL purchase. It is almost always pulling teeth to get these threads to focus on the #s. GT did it, but she still hasn't responded to GT with the #s.

No. See post 21 GT75 nailed it. There are Premier suites that justify double the points for the same MFs as Platinum weeks for standard 1 BR or 2 BR. I was not aware of that. Retail they must cost a ton, but the points make the MFs a real bargain.

 

[Mongoose]

by my ests, HGVC pts (NOT DIAMOND) are worth maybe $0.30 best case, maybe $0.20 pretty easily, as little as $0.07 if you use them badly. below $.07 if you totally screw up. anyone agree?
If true, it is obvious that paying $0.23/yr for HGVC Pts provides "no value" and therefore has no value to sell
Corollary:
IF HGVC is "best" & Diamond is "better"
AND $0.23/yr is "worthless" for HGVC pts
THEN $0.23/yr is most definitely "worthless" for Diamond pts

Maybe in general, but there are situations where they are much more valuable. For example, a Premier at Kings Land 2 BR that gets you 20,000+ points for MF of $1900 would be worth $1.50-$2 per point. Platinum's at Elara might be worth $0.50 per point, A Gold or lower week at a High Maintenance Fee location in Orlando might be worth only $0.05 per point. And some off season studio's with 2540 points and higher maintenance fees have zero value.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Maybe in general, but there are situations where they are much more valuable. For example, a Premier at Kings Land 2 BR that gets you 20,000+ points for MF of $1900 would be worth $1.50-$2 per point. Platinum's at Elara might be worth $0.50 per point, A Gold or lower week at a High Maintenance Fee location in Orlando might be worth only $0.05 per point. And some off season studio's with 2540 points and higher maintenance fees have zero value.

oh yeah, I was talking about the value/pt/yr of usage. That is hwy I compared it to cost/pt/yr of usage, which is what the person I replied to quoted. I agree with your #s, but that is the total "free mkt" value to buy/sell the deed.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

No. See post 21 GT75 nailed it. There are Premier suites that justify double the points for the same MFs as Platinum weeks for standard 1 BR or 2 BR. I was not aware of that. Retail they must cost a ton, but the points make the MFs a real bargain.

use my equation, you will see what the "worth a ton" is. Anybody? $30K? $35K?
(note: as I said, I made that equation up in about 50 sec, piggybacking on 2 other thoughts. Those 2 thoughts use different approaches, and if I spent the time (another 4 minutes? to be more consistent, maybe that $1.7 factor should be $1.6 or $1.5.
and Yes, she has never stated both the Pts & the MFs of her KL purchase.
and yes, GL is right, you're interpretation of what I said is not. As I said weeks ago in another thread, it is about "maximizing the denominator"

 

[alwysonvac]

This is great information - the kind that I am looking for. THANK YOU!

I have absolutely been enjoying my purchase. We use our points at the Hawaii locations (The Modern, Point at Poipu, and Kaanapali Beach Club) and elsewhere - we've been to Mystic Dunes in Florida and Cedar Breaks Lodge in Utah. We've absolutely loved the properties. It gives us what we need for a family of 4 with a full kitchen and enough rooms and bathrooms for everyone to feel comfortable. We also love the free family activities on site.

I should reconsider what I have said since you've shown me the Hawaii Collection Maintenance Fee Assessment from @youppi. That looks about right. Since we have 30,000 points, it has been going up about $425 each year.

Good to hear
Rescind the latest KL weeks while you still can and continue enjoying your trips with your DRI points.

My husband genuinely thought that going to a member update was absolutely necessary so that we could get information on how our DRI account and the properties have changed since acquisition by HGV. We did not know that it was another upselling scheme. I was certainly on guard and looking for all of the signs of a scheme and catching the sales person in his pitch when certain things he said went against what I had learned from my research. However, in the end my husband truly believed that the only way forward was to buy the KL deed.

The sales person said that our DRI MFs for 2025 would be at $10K and he showed us our DRI account on his iPad and it did show that number in the corner. If he hadn't shown us our account, I wouldn't have believed him. That is the very reason why we bought the KL deed at $100K. Because he said in a matter of 10 years, we would have spent $100K on MFs for our DRI points, so this way we could transfer it over to HGV and lower our MFs. I had a very hard time understanding the concept of that big picture, but my husband understood the math and gave the green light.

Timeshare owner updates are just sales presentations and the timeshare sales folks are known to stretch the truth in order to make a sale.
If you're interested in learning anything about your DRI points or any other timeshare system, just read and ask questions on TUG.

 

[travellingfam]

To answer some of your questions, here are the numbers:

KL 1 BR Week 51 7,680 pts
KL 1 BR Week 52 11,520 pts
Total of 19,200 pts
MF for those 2 weeks are $3159.83

 

[travellingfam]

We signed on 3/19/24 which is out of the recission window. However, we have a voicemail that they are missing a signature from us, which we will call back soon to hopefully null and void this deed purchase. I just wanted to gather as much information as possible before I made that call.

Thank you to everyone for your responses and helpful information. I truly appreciate your knowledge and experience!

 

[brp]

The sales guy was simply trying to scare you.

Even so, the actual increases from 2022-2024 are quite high. Even using the same rate of increase would have the MFs over $7K next year. Forget the scare tactics- the real data are scary enough.

Cheers.

 

[travellingfam]

The voicemail says the "funds were already charged" but they need our signature on the receipt.
Super vague language.

 

[alwysonvac]

Even so, the actual increases from 2022-2024 are quite high. Even using the same rate of increase would have the MFs over $7K next year. Forget the scare tactics- the real data are scary enough.

Cheers.

The OP wrote "I should reconsider what I have said since you've shown me the Hawaii Collection Maintenance Fee Assessment from @youppi. That looks about right. Since we have 30,000 points, it has been going up about $425 each year."

Keep in mind, 30,000 points is a large number of points. They get several weeks.
Per TUG's Comparison chart of the major Timeshare point systems, a typical DRI two bedroom is about 10,000 points.

 

[geist1223]

We use to be in the DRI Hawaiian Collection. A few years ago we bought a minimum number of Points (500) in Cabo Azul and switched all of our Points/Membership into a single Contract at Cabo Azul. The MF are a lot less and we have had no problem Booking into the Hawaiian DRI Resorts. I do not know if this is still possible with HVC.

 

[brp]

The OP wrote "I should reconsider what I have said since you've shown me the Hawaii Collection Maintenance Fee Assessment from @youppi. That looks about right. Since we have 30,000 points, it has been going up about $425 each year."

Looking at their (presumably historical) number again, it seems a bit more than that ($618, $532), but not much more. Still, this is a substantial increase (11%, 8.6%) every year. Even the lower percentage has it at $7325 for the following year, or $0.24/pt. That is still high. And the climb is steep if it continues.

Now, if the OP is reconsidering the numbers posted, and those are not the actual numbers from their records, then all bets are off.

My DRI MFs are as listed for 30,000 pts:
2021 $5571.97
2023 $6189.12
2024 $6721.22
2025 projected MF from HGV sales guy was over $10K

Cheers.

 

[brp]

We use to be in the DRI Hawaiian Collection. A few years ago we bought a minimum number of Points (500) in Cabo Azul and switched all of our Points/Membership into a single Contract at Cabo Azul. The MF are a lot less and we have had no problem Booking into the Hawaiian DRI Resorts. I do not know if this is still possible with HVC.

Would it work to buy a minimum direct contract in Cabo Azul, a larger one (resale) for Hawaii Collection and still move it all to Cabo Azul and use across collections? I know that resale, by itself, negates cross-collection booking.

Cheers,

 

[Mongoose]

here's an equation I just made up for HGVC, cuz why not?
($1.7 x Pts) - (8.1 x MF) = Initial Cost so it also = Value you could sell it for

Everybody try that on their HGVC deed, esp a KL deed

again, HGVC, not Diamond. Diamond must be worse, ie that $1.7 factor would be lower. Diamond fans welcome to prove me wrong.

I tried your formula. For my HGVC The Bay Club Platinum it came back at $3520. I paid $1. For my Elara it came back at $5766 I paid $700. It might work for a brokered sale, but its a little pricey for a private sale.