Transfer from DRI to HGV - not sure if I did the right thing.

[travellingfam]

My husband and I were Diamond Resorts owners. We bought in during 2020 (don't ask me what we were thinking) at $70k for the Hawaii Collection and got 30,000 points. We have been able to utilize our points and have been enjoying our purchase. We noticed that the maintenance fees skyrocketed this year at just under $7000. We went to a member presentation to receive an update and HGV convinced us to transfer out of Diamond trust points to deeded HGV points. After another $100,000 down, we walked away with a week during Christmas and a week during New Years at a 1 BR in King's Land, Hawaii (and a promise of the maintenance fees staying at $3000). We planned to write in to cancel our trust points, as we don't need them anymore.
I'm starting to wonder why we are now $170,000 in to this and instead of having a downpayment for a house, we are owners in a system that I find very hard to navigate. In the time that it's going to take me to learn the system, I feel like I will have lost the opportunity to rescind.
Does anyone have advice on what to do now? I just feel like every time we go to an owner update meeting, we are somehow convinced to put more money in.

 

[HuskerATL]

If you can rescind, do it. No need to spend another $100k. If you really want in HGVC, then buy a resale deed for a few thousand. The issue would then be the DRI points. That is high MFs at 0.23 MF/pt. I would be tempted to dump the DRI points to cut your losses.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

just just just ... speechless ... I can never tell if these newbie posts are a joke.
advice? STOP SIGNING STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It isn't hard.
Everybody. STOP SIGNING STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems as if all the salespeople are named Harry Callahan and it is everybody's responsibility to Make Their Day

 

[raddoc]

Agree with the advice to rescind if you can. You can buy resale for much less.

There are multiple point levels for 1 bedrooms at KL, how many points per week did you purchase? Prices for resale will vary significantly based on the number of points per week but you will be able to get comparable deeds for much less. As a reference, you should be able to purchase the highest point 1 bedroom at KL (20160 points) for roughly $16k plus closing costs. The lowest point 1 bedrooms (7680 points) will cost much less.

It will take some time to find week 51 and week 52 deeds on the resale market, they're not as many of those weeks. There is a premium for week 51 and week 52 deeds. Do you expect to spend both those weeks at KL every year? If not then you might want to consider saving some money by purchasing 1 event week and 1 floating week instead of 2 event weeks (or 2 floating weeks).

 

[travellingfam]

If you can rescind, do it. No need to spend another $100k. If you really want in HGVC, then buy a resale deed for a few thousand. The issue would then be the DRI points. That is high MFs at 0.23 MF/pt. I would be tempted to dump the DRI points to cut your losses.

That was the issue. We were completely satisfied with our DRI investment and points until the maintenance fees started rising. HGV explained to us that since everyone is leaving Diamond (since they've been bought out and are "no more"), that maintenance fees will be at about $10k next year and thereafter.
We are realizing that transferring in to HGV is not the answer to this solution as they presented to us. What's better is that we've been getting calls that they are missing a signature (of theirs) so I think our contract is not valid just yet. (Hoping!!!)
How do we get out of the DRI points? We just have to take the $70k loss and give the points back to the company, right? Is there any other way that you know of that would be less painful for us?

 

[travellingfam]

just just just ... speechless ... I can never tell if these newbie posts are a joke.
advice? STOP SIGNING STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It isn't hard.
Everybody. STOP SIGNING STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems as if all the salespeople are named Harry Callahan and it is everybody's responsibility to Make Their Day

This is not a joke. My husband and I are born and raised in Hawaii. We have a family that enjoys traveling and certain circumstances that require us to travel often to visit family. We were offered something that enabled our family to travel comfortably and we truly enjoyed these last 4 years. We also realized the cost of hotel stays in Hawaii will only go up and timeshare points stayed consistent so it seemed like the smart thing to do.

 

[travellingfam]

Agree with the advice to rescind if you can. You can buy resale for much less.

There are multiple point levels for 1 bedrooms at KL, how many points per week did you purchase? Prices for resale will vary significantly based on the number of points per week but you will be able to get comparable deeds for much less. As a reference, you should be able to purchase the highest point 1 bedroom at KL (20160 points) for roughly $16k plus closing costs. The lowest point 1 bedrooms (7680 points) will cost much less.

It will take some time to find week 51 and week 52 deeds on the resale market, they're not as many of those weeks. There is a premium for week 51 and week 52 deeds. Do you expect to spend both those weeks at KL every year? If not then you might want to consider saving some money by purchasing 1 event week and 1 floating week instead of 2 event weeks (or 2 floating weeks).

We live in Hawaii and don't actually intend on staying those 2 weeks at KL at all. The way it was presented to us was that we could use the points for other weeks at other properties for our own travel.

 

[alwysonvac]

My husband and I were Diamond Resorts owners. We bought in during 2020 (don't ask me what we were thinking) at $70k for the Hawaii Collection and got 30,000 points. We have been able to utilize our points and have been enjoying our purchase. We noticed that the maintenance fees skyrocketed this year at just under $7000. We went to a member presentation to receive an update and HGV convinced us to transfer out of Diamond trust points to deeded HGV points. After another $100,000 down, we walked away with a week during Christmas and a week during New Years at a 1 BR in King's Land, Hawaii (and a promise of the maintenance fees staying at $3000). We planned to write in to cancel our trust points, as we don't need them anymore.
I'm starting to wonder why we are now $170,000 in to this and instead of having a downpayment for a house, we are owners in a system that I find very hard to navigate. In the time that it's going to take me to learn the system, I feel like I will have lost the opportunity to rescind.
Does anyone have advice on what to do now? I just feel like every time we go to an owner update meeting, we are somehow convinced to put more money in.

There's no such thing as fixed maintenance fees.
Employee salaries are not fixed. Ongoing expenses are not fixed.

Here are examples of resale prices for weeks 51 & 52.
Stop going to owner updates. Don't rely on information from the sales folk. Rescind and do your research before you buy anything.

https://www.timesharebrokersmls.com/Search/N/KINGS+LAND+BY+HILTON+GRAND+VACATIONS+CLUB+HGVC/N/gt/0/1/0/N/N/N/N/51/N/N/Results.html

https://www.timesharebrokersmls.com/Search/N/KINGS+LAND+BY+HILTON+GRAND+VACATIONS+CLUB+HGVC/N/gt/0/1/0/N/N/N/N/52/N/N/Results.html

 

[SmithOp]

Just FYI, those "promises" they make are non-binding, only what's written in the contract.

It's best to ignore the person making flip remarks, and ignore any more invitations from the Hilton sales staff.

 

[travellingfam]

Just FYI, those "promises" they make are non-binding, only what's written in the contract.

It's best to ignore the person making flip remarks, and ignore any more invitations from the Hilton sales staff.

I see that you own King's Land 2BR. Are you happy with it?

 

[travellingfam]

There's no such thing as fixed maintenance fees.
Employee salaries are not fixed. Ongoing expenses are not fixed.

Here are examples of resale prices for weeks 51 & 52.
Stop going to owner updates. Don't rely on Rescind and do your research before you buy anything.

https://www.timesharebrokersmls.com/Search/N/KINGS+LAND+BY+HILTON+GRAND+VACATIONS+CLUB+HGVC/N/gt/0/1/0/N/N/N/N/51/N/N/Results.html

View attachment 90654

https://www.timesharebrokersmls.com/Search/N/KINGS+LAND+BY+HILTON+GRAND+VACATIONS+CLUB+HGVC/N/gt/0/1/0/N/N/N/N/52/N/N/Results.html

View attachment 90655

Thank you very much for this information. I appreciate it.

 

[SmithOp]

I see that you own King's Land 2BR. Are you happy with it?

Very happy with what we own, once we learned how to stretch points. We never stay in the premier 2 bedroom unit in phase 1 that we own, it generates too many points to waste on a single week. We can stay 2-1/2 weeks in a 2 bedroom standard unit in phase 2, or almost a month in a 1 bedroom phase 2 unit.

We've been going to King's Land since it opened, it's our favorite HGVC.

 

[raddoc]

We live in Hawaii and don't actually intend on staying those 2 weeks at KL at all. The way it was presented to us was that we could use the points for other weeks at other properties for our own travel.

If you don't intend to stay at KL during week 51 or week 52, I would definitely not pay the premium to purchase week 51 or week 52. In fact, you should consider not purchasing at KL at all and purchase a deed in Las Vegas. The only advantage for you to own at KL is to be able to use a "Home Week" reservation. That is a 7 day stay in the exact unit type that you own, the 7 days must start on the resort's check-in day for home week reservations (it's Saturday at KL).

If you're not going to use your points that way, look at high point deeds at Elara or Boulevard in Las Vegas. You can use those points the same exact way you can use the points at KL (assuming you're not going to be using a Home Week reservation) but the Vegas points will cost less to purchase and their annual maintenance fees are less. The high point deeds at KL have a good MF/point ratio - but the high point deeds at Elara or Boulevard have an even better MF/point ratio. Costing less than KL is icing on the cake.

 

[Talent312]

I too, am speechless... This is just sad.
Lady, you were hornswoggled.

 

[Mongoose]

My husband and I were Diamond Resorts owners. We bought in during 2020 (don't ask me what we were thinking) at $70k for the Hawaii Collection and got 30,000 points. We have been able to utilize our points and have been enjoying our purchase. We noticed that the maintenance fees skyrocketed this year at just under $7000. We went to a member presentation to receive an update and HGV convinced us to transfer out of Diamond trust points to deeded HGV points. After another $100,000 down, we walked away with a week during Christmas and a week during New Years at a 1 BR in King's Land, Hawaii (and a promise of the maintenance fees staying at $3000). We planned to write in to cancel our trust points, as we don't need them anymore.
I'm starting to wonder why we are now $170,000 in to this and instead of having a downpayment for a house, we are owners in a system that I find very hard to navigate. In the time that it's going to take me to learn the system, I feel like I will have lost the opportunity to rescind.
Does anyone have advice on what to do now? I just feel like every time we go to an owner update meeting, we are somehow convinced to put more money in.

Maybe stop going to updates?! What you have has no resale due to the high MFs and a contractual commitment to ever increasing fees.

 

[travellingfam]

Maybe stop going to updates?! What you have has no resale due to the high MFs and a contractual commitment to ever increasing fees.

I definitely understand not to go to any more updates. When you reference "what we have" is that the Diamond 30,000 pts with the $7000+ maintenance fees? Or are you talking about the HGV deed?

 

[Mongoose]

I definitely understand not to go to any more updates. When you reference "what we have" is that the Diamond 30,000 pts with the $7000+ maintenance fees? Or are you talking about the HGV deed?

It will be hard to give away the Diamond TS. I don’t know enough about the HGVC, but Kingsland has high MFs.

 

[brp]

I don’t know enough about the HGVC, but Kingsland has high MFs.

Not necessarily. Depends upon the unit type purchased. Some are quite good. There is a thread about this in the stickies.

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

That was the issue. We were completely satisfied with our DRI investment and points until the maintenance fees started rising. HGV explained to us that since everyone is leaving Diamond (since they've been bought out and are "no more"), that maintenance fees will be at about $10k next year and thereafter.
We are realizing that transferring in to HGV is not the answer to this solution as they presented to us. What's better is that we've been getting calls that they are missing a signature (of theirs) so I think our contract is not valid just yet. (Hoping!!!)
How do we get out of the DRI points? We just have to take the $70k loss and give the points back to the company, right? Is there any other way that you know of that would be less painful for us?

If they didn't sign something, then maybe it isn't binding but I would rescind anyway, just to protect yourself. I would look at this like a reset then evaluate what you own. The DRI group can provide the best guidance on those points but they are high. My understanding is that the trust points aren't very "salable" so you might need to decide if you want to keep making the $7k+ MFs or cut your losses. You can compare to a low MF deed and see the difference in the annual cost. As an example, you are paying $7k for 30k points so that is, 0.23 MF/pt but if you compare that to a deed with 0.10 MF/pt then the same 30k points is $3k, that is a $4k savings each year. The only advantage to owning at a specific place is to use that place and fixed weeks like yours can be rented out since those are high demand weeks but if you don't plan on staying there and don't plan on renting them out, then there are cheaper places to own. There are exceptions to that though and you can look in the MF sticky at the best MF table at those.

 

[Mongoose]

Not necessarily. Depends upon the unit type purchased. Some are quite good. There is a thread about this in the stickies.

Cheers.

I see $1870 to $2150 for a 2 BR? What am I missing?

 

[GT75]

I see $1870 to $2150 for a 2 BR? What am I missing?

The key is to look at the MF/pt ratio:

KL 3BR Premier $2846.07 36,800 pts 0.07734
KL 1BR Premier Larger $1700.56 20,160 pts 0.08435
KL 2BR Premier Larger $2115.24 23,040 pts 0.09181

 

[Mongoose]

The key is to look at the MF/pt ratio:

KL 3BR Premier $2846.07 36,800 pts 0.07734
KL 1BR Premier Larger $1700.56 20,160 pts 0.08435
KL 2BR Premier Larger $2115.24 23,040 pts 0.09181

I hadn’t seen those. Wow! 23k points for a 2BR! That is Premier! I would have to assume they go for a higher price or they fail ROFR. I would probably jump at a 1 br premier, but I imaging they are $6-10k or more.

 

[alwysonvac]

My husband and I were Diamond Resorts owners. We bought in during 2020 (don't ask me what we were thinking) at $70k for the Hawaii Collection and got 30,000 points. We have been able to utilize our points and have been enjoying our purchase. We noticed that the maintenance fees skyrocketed this year at just under $7000.

You've been enjoying your 2020 purchase.

Do you know why your maintenance fee skyrocketed this year? Is it temporary?
Ask on the HVC forum. For example, there's some renovation work going on at DRI's Point at Poipu. See thread below.

Point at Poipu renovations

Renovations have started at the Point at Poipu, beginning with Building 6. Over the next several posts I'll put up some pics we took when we were there the last two weeks of October. I understand that the timing of the project was connected to the settlement of claims regarding building soffits...

tugbbs.com

I don't know for deeded weeks and other Collections but the Hawaii Collection MF is normally deposited in members account between mid and end of November.
From the 2022 annual meeting presentation of the Hawaii Collection, we know this:

 

[brp]

Those MFs are certainly high. We had thought about eventually buying a resale Hawaii Collection for use on Kauai and Maui. This is looking like $0.20/point for something in the 20K point range.

Cheers.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

HGV is a good system overall and is worth buying into if you plan to use it.

Hawaii and Florida properties are tough buy-ins because of the spiraling high MFs. It's only a good idea to own in Hawaii and Florida if you actually need extended bookings privileges at those specific properties. If you intend to use the points to stay elsewhere, it's best to own deeds at lower MF properties such as Las Vegas (Boulevard, Flamingo, Elara). HGV points are worth the same across the entire system so it makes the most sense to own deeds at properties that offer the most HGV points for the lowest MFs.

For every one person who buys into the system on the resale market there are probably 100+ who buy into it retail like you did. We also bought into the system via retail sales initially, but we aren't going to buy anymore retail deeds, only resale.

Gaming the owners updates to get freebies is a thing, but personally I'm against it. Not because I can't say "No" but because I value my time and peace of mind much more than being subjected to a high pressure sales pitch for two hours in exchange for a $200 gift card. YMMV. The pressure is high to get owners to commit to an "update" and even higher once the owner is in front of the salesman - my advice is to respond with a polite, yet categorical and unwavering "NO" whenever the person by the check-in counter tries to get an owner to commit to an "update," no matter what freebies they throw out. It's just not worth it. Ever.