Timeshare Relief, Inc.

[rickandcindy23]

Spence, sounds like brainwashing to me.

The people that go to these meetings already made up their minds that timeshare is a waste of money, so why not fork over $3,495 more for it. Don't take the time to figure out how to use it or get rid of it yourself, just pay someone to do it. Maybe they are too busy and too well off to take the time to figure out their purchases. That makes them doubly foolish because they were sucked in by a salesperson when they bought, then sucked in when they answered the postcard. I guess that makes them suckers!

I am asking all my TUGger friends, do you think my MIL ripped off this young couple? She had no idea of the value, so I say for 100% certainty, no she did not. Perhaps the value of timeshares is way down because of Timeshare Relief and the upfront fees companies. That makes sense to me because after uneducated (about timeshare) people pay an upfront fee or two and get no results, they automatically assume that no one wants their week. The two companies work hand in hand.

Ironically, my MIL received two or three calls over the years from upfront fee companies who told her she could sell her week for double or triple what she paid, if she would just pay a fee. She remembered that and thought it was true. I had no reason to tell her otherwise, nor would I. I was absolutely certain she would not find a buyer and told Rick the same.

 

[Spence]

Cindy, I'm not easily BW and I wouldn't worry you little head about your MIL's situation. If both parties are happy, it doesn't matter. I remember my first ever TS purchase in ~'97/'98, I got what I thought was a RED week for 33% of then current developer prices and 50% of original purchase price. A 4BR lockoff, 2x2BR. I had found the same owner's ad on TUG and one other place and she was local. The owner and I met at her bank and she had to bring money to pay it off in addition to what I was giving her. She was happy, I was happy (at the time). Today, 15% of developer prices is too much for me.

 

[Laurie]

Value is in the eyes of the beholder.

This is the key. "Successful" entrepreneurs spot a market niche and reach that market for the best price. (Advertising and selling tactics aren't always 100% truthful, and I agree that there are lines crossed, by TS salespeople and others.) The internet has changed "value" perception in many markets, wherein seller after seller underbids the last. (Anyone here sold used books on amazon? How has this changed things for independent booksellers? It's not all good news for everyone, but it's the way it is.) But people who don't price-shop on the internet have different value perceptions.

The postcard companies are reaching the non-internet users who paid developer prices. So the competition here could be another company, thru postcards and seminars or some other way - which reaches the same market with costs to the customer that undercut this $3500 fee - say, $2500, or $1000. Or nothing, for that matter. In our lifetime there will probably always be people who don't use the internet.

 

[BocaBum99]

This is an incredible business model.

When I first got into timesharing, I was astounded at the deals I could find. The more I looked, the better the deals I found. Every time I tried to buy a timeshare for a lower price, I was able to do it. I thought the limit was zero. Based on the business model of this company, it appears that the limit is negative.

The whole timeshare industry is based on a lie. That's the way all markets are in their infancy. The only way to correct it is through education of the market as it grows. Over time, these business models will go away. They only exist because there are uneducated consumers.

How do I personally feel about TR? I think they are geniuses and scumbags at the same time. Geniuses for figuring out how to get paid for inventory and scumbags for taking advantage of these poor uneducated souls. If I were in their shoes, would I do it? Probably not. Mostly due to my own conscience. But, I wouldn't mind taking their inventory at a discounted price and selling it myself. And, I don't blame them for trying.

 

[JudyS]

All the lambasting of these companies just makes me wonder about self-rightousness. On TUG, we all talk about how awful developers are, how people should discover TUG before purchasing timeshares, and how we can help people figure out what to do with their timeshares....ultimately, the use I get from my timeshares is partly due to taking advantage of people who don't know better how to use their timeshares....

Here's what I see as the big difference between the good guys (TUG) and the scammers (most timeshare developers, up-front fee listing services, and the "postcard" companies such as Timeshare Relief.)

Here on TUG, we (as a community) tell the truth. And, we don't charge anyone for it, except an optional $15/year if you want to see the reviews & the sightings board. Almost everyone on TUG is here because we love timeshares and want to share our knowledge. There are a few people here who sell/rent timeshares as a real business, but even they generally started out as timeshare consumers, and only got into timeshares as a business because they were so happy with their timeshares, and wanted other people to be, too.

The bad guys tell lies. (In the case of the developers, there are too many lies to list here, but they include that timeshares will increase in value, and that you can trade anywhere in the RCI/II catalogs. The up-front fee people say they can get you beaucoup bucks for your timeshare, and then hardly ever sell anything at any price. The "postcard" companies say that all timeshares are worthless, that you can legally write off your losses on your taxes, and that your heirs will be forced to inhereit your timeshares.) Oh, and these liars charge -- often thousands of dollars -- for their misinformation.

Telling the truth at no charge, or lying and charging thousands of dollars for one's lies -- this sounds like quite a moral difference to me.

I'm not 100% certain that bsteigner and KaileyB are shills for the "postcard" company, although I think that is highly likely, and presumably at least one person from Timeshare Relief is reading this thread, since Spence said that they were expecting him. I think there is a slight chance that one of these posters is a timeshare consumer who paid big bucks to Timeshare Relief, and is being so hostile here because they don't like being seen as an idiot for spending all that money. In either case, many of the claims being made here (like that we are all "embedded" in the timeshare industry) are completely bizarre.

 

[ira g]

Ira, you are being unfair in your assessment of my posts.

Anyone who reads my posts about my 79-year-old mother-in-law would know that she had no idea she was selling what you are calling a "dog week." Value is in the eyes of the beholder. She felt that her week is deeded and should have gone up in value in 22 years. After all, her house has gone up in value over 10 times in 30 years. She was expecting to at least double her investment and because she didn't, she almost did not sell. The young couple are friends of hers and went with her to stay in the unit ten days ago. What is so terrible about an innocent, I would even call her naive, selling her week to a friend for that price? She has no internet access, no way to judge the value except with her attitude about the week, which she believes has value. Believe me, this happens all the time. People really do pay too much for used weeks. It is ridiculous for you to treat my posts as if I am some sort of a crook, along with my entire family.

Rick and I purchased a week from Thomas Ochoa about a year before I joined TUG. I had no idea I was buying a week from a company that tells people that timeshares are worthless and the fees will never, ever stop. If I would have known, NO WAY would I have bought a week. Then I bought another bargain on ebay from a seller who told me OVER THE PHONE that he was not with the postcard companies. Liars and conmen, that is what these people are. I stand by it.

Just because people on TUG have a skewed idea of timeshare and buy weeks on the resale for almost nothing does not mean that it is not valuable. I will never knowingly buy a timeshare from these scumbags again.

Cindy- I have reread your posts as I would not want to be unfair. You being a wise and educated TS owner and buyer would never have spent the amount your MIL sold her blue week for. You as an experienced purchaser would have searched out the best buy. The young couple did not do that. Did they overpay? Absolutely. Do you feel guilty that a relative of yours maximized the return at the expense of this young couple? I doubt it. How can you be sure where all the weeks you are buying came from. If it is for sale whether on ebay, holiday or tochoa and I buy in good faith in a totally arms length transaction then I would not fret. There will always be educated people like some tuggers that will do research and attempt to get the best buy, and there will be people who will use TR. I will not judge and I believe unless you have always done everything with the utmost honesty and have not taken advantage of anyone willing to sell you a timeshare or any other purchase, maybe you shouldn't judge either. I would suggest you reread your posts with an independent view point and see if you can see where I am coming from. Hopefully no hard feelings.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ira, why should I feel guilty? I have no reason to tell my mother-in-law that her timeshare is worthless. I would never hurt her feelings like that. I don't think a blue week is worthless anyway. I can pull Hawaii weeks with my Blue Colorado weeks I still have banked from last year. My MIL can see the same with Rockridge when I search on our computer at home with her account. That is why she thinks her timeshare is valuable. It pulls Hawaii, twenty resorts last night.

Who determines what is valuable in timeshare? If it were attached to real estate that increases in value, then it would be easy to take the assessed value of the whole and divide by 52, but we cannot do that.

I owned timeshare for 23 1/2 years before I found TUG. I thought my timeshares were still pretty valuable, even though I could see weeks in inventory at my resort that were selling for less than half of what we paid. Being a Realtor, I could do the numbers and divide $200K by 50. I figured our resort was selling cheaply to get rid of them. I started to get a clue after attending a presentation at PAHIO @ Bali Hai in February of 2004. I fell in love with the place and was astounded at the price tag, which I believe was $26K, though it may have been higher. I knew there was a resale market for timeshares and had never looked into it before, so I did a Yahoo search for that Kauai resort and voila, there was ebay.

It was not until TUG that I realized that timeshares that are not prime weeks in Five-Star and Gold Crown resorts are not that valuable. Even at that, prime weeks are not valuable if they are in overbuilt areas. How would someone know this, if they do not know TUG or ebay?

We humans tend to be egocentric. Whatever is going on in our little worlds are our realities. We need information to be in the know, but we have to seek it before we can find it. Right? Timeshare salesmen hope that your little reality, your egocentric world, can see the value of what they are selling. If you stay in a Marriott hotel on Maui and pay $200 per night for a hotel room that you are sharing with your two kids (more than that, likely) and they show you how you can own a week on Maui and pay much less, you are a likely mark. In your little world, going to Maui means renting a hotel room and saving money by not getting two hotel rooms. After you buy the Maui week, you can sit back and relax and enjoy vacations every year and trade if you want. Great idea, wonderful savings, privacy from the kids. Now you have that knowledge, it becomes part of your world. I just described my son's in-laws in this description. They bought a Marriott Ko'Olina two bedroom to stay on the islands after staying in a hotel room for a week with their teen-aged daughters. They have no knowledge of anything timeshare other than what they bought. NONE. They never trade it and still rent hotel rooms in Orlando with their Marriott points. They could be taken in again very easily.

People that seek Timeshare Relief for a solution have a different reality within their little egocentric worlds. They see timeshare as having zero value, an albatross they need to get rid of as fast as they can. Perhaps there is no time for vacation or they prefer hotels and do not like the planning required to use their weeks. They had the sales spiel, bought into it and now believe nothing the salesman said. Instead of offering solutions, Timeshare Relief takes advantage, for a fee. I can more readily understand the above situation than this one. I cannot relate to anything these people are choosing for themselves, but I am now "in the know" and chose to seek information.

I don't like them, what they say, what they stand for, how they get people to give up their timeshares and their money.

Boca is right, it would be a great way to make a living, if you can live with your conscience, telling a person that owns a two bedroom on Maui, Kauai or some other gorgeous resort area, that their purchase is worthless. The people who work for the company don't believe it, I am sure of that fact.

 

[Spence]

Ira, why should I feel guilty? I have no reason to tell my mother-in-law that her timeshare is worthless. I would never hurt her feelings like that.

You obviously feel some compunction here or you wouldn't be starting all these make me feel good threads about this.

Who determines what is valuable in timeshare? If it were attached to real estate that increases in value, then it would be easy to take the assessed value of the whole and divide by 52, but we cannot do that.

Hmmmm, my deeds do indicate that my timeshare is 'attached' to real estate and If the resort were sold I bet my share would be more than I paid!

Boca is right, it would be a great way to make a living, if you can live with your conscience, telling a person that owns a two bedroom on Maui, Kauai or some other gorgeous resort area, that their purchase is worthless. The people who work for the company don't believe it, I am sure of that fact.

You must not have read my later posts detailing my visit to TR, they do not tell you your timeshare is worthless. The 'value' of your timeshare is what you make of it, refers back to first quote.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Spence,

Yes, I know that the weeks are deeded, but we cannot ever get the value out of the weeks as real estate. How many timeshares have ever done that? I would love it if Val Chatelle chooses to sell our units outright. Hmmm, we own four weeks and the neighbor in the identical unit sold his a year ago for $374K. 109 Alpine Dr. in Summit County, I think it was unit A.

I couldn't sell my summer weeks for much, but as real estate they are worth a lot. I have never understood that.

Ira thinks I should feel guilty. I do not control what others do. Thank goodness I do not have that power. I am not happy either. I know the truth about the value but as I said, my opinion is my opinion and has been skewed by TUG and the internet.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I have my answer. The resale company for Summit County is:

http://www.jovanrealty.com/new/listings.htm

This is the company that sells timeshare weeks in Summit County. Jovan mailed mom a list of weeks for sale and was going to charge her an upfront fee to list, but she said she would find her own buyer--and did.

Scroll down and look at her prices!

I was in contact with this woman a few years ago, the owner of Jovan Realty, when our resort was thinking of converting to points. Our management company, Americana Resort Properties, was going to use her to convert our weeks at Val Chatelle to points. I decided to call her in person to talk and she was converting the weeks at Swan Mountain and Rockridge, Mom's resort, for $3,995. I thought of her as a just another sleaze, but Mom saw the values on the list Jovan mailed to her and chose to sell her week by herself, with the list in hand. Now I get it. I didn't understand before but do now.

 

[myip]

The bottom line is this : If a buyer doesn't do research before spending money on a developer unit or a resale unit, it is the buyer responsiblity for their action. Similarly, if the seller want to use Timeshare Relief and willing to pay for the services. They are not being "RIPPED off". It is their choice. They can do research before going to any meeting. TR sends out a post card. Seller has a lot of time to do research or to think about it before going to the presenation. 5 minutes research on the internet will know whether they are being "Scamed" . For me, I can see myself using the Timeshare Relief services if I am having trouble of getting rid of a week.

 

[ira g]

"Ira thinks I should feel guilty. I do not control what others do. Thank goodness I do not have that power. I am not happy either. I know the truth about the value but as I said, my opinion is my opinion and has been skewed by TUG and the internet."

Cindy- Please don't feel guilty. Your MIL made a wonderful sale to an unsuspecting young couple who didn't do their due diligence. They were not as informed as you were as that the HOA were selling these weeks for the MF as it appears these weeks had little value in the open market. This is not your problem but the uneducated young couple's. That these were sold for over 8 times what they could have been bought for is not your concern. I agree. The only thing I am pointing out is your constant thrashing of developers, upfront fee chargers and TR may not be totally warranted as we all try to make a buck any way we can. Boca is totally correct, this whole industry is built on a pack of lies and it should be buyer beware, whether you deal with a developer, upfront resale agent,TR or an independent person attempting to sell their own unit. I am not attempting to pass judgement on you guilt or not, but as my mother taught me, you should not throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I do not live in a glass house. I am always honest. I have no control over my grown children and less than none over my MIL. I do dislike Timeshare Relief, Vacation Solutions, Resort Acquisitions, Time No More, etc. and do not equate myself to them in any way.

 

[bertnbb]

Timeshares Only

I have a 2 BR L/O at the new Playa Del Sol San Jose Del Cabo. I was thinking of listing it for resale with Timeshares Only. They charge $598 up front, but this includes all fees/costs and they have GMAC finance the new owner.
Does anyone have any experience with this company before I make any more mistakes? (I have already lost $299 with RIMC.
Thanks - BB

 

[Spence]

I have a 2 BR L/O at the new Playa Del Sol San Jose Del Cabo. I was thinking of listing it for resale with Timeshares Only. They charge $598 up front, but this includes all fees/costs and they have GMAC finance the new owner.
Does anyone have any experience with this company before I make any more mistakes? (I have already lost $299 with RIMC.
Thanks - BB

It's a mistake and a waste of money if you list it with them and especially if you list it at what they will tell you you can sell it for. Don't let the GMAC moniker fool you, it's money down the drain. DaveM will be along to tell you what you should do, but if you read a little bit on this thread and on this BBS you will learn.

 

[ira g]

I have a 2 BR L/O at the new Playa Del Sol San Jose Del Cabo. I was thinking of listing it for resale with Timeshares Only. They charge $598 up front, but this includes all fees/costs and they have GMAC finance the new owner.
Does anyone have any experience with this company before I make any more mistakes? (I have already lost $299 with RIMC.
Thanks - BB

DON'T DO IT. THEY TOLD ME I COULD GET $3000 PER WEEK FOR MY 2 WEEKS OF TS I WAS LOOKING TO SELL. THE INTERESTING THING WAS THAT I CALLED BACK LOOKING TO BUY THOSE WEEKS AND THEY TOLD ME I COULD BUY THEM FOR $400 PER WEEK. SORTA MAKES YOU THINK!

 

[CaliDave]

I have a 2 BR L/O at the new Playa Del Sol San Jose Del Cabo. I was thinking of listing it for resale with Timeshares Only. They charge $598 up front, but this includes all fees/costs and they have GMAC finance the new owner.
Does anyone have any experience with this company before I make any more mistakes? (I have already lost $299 with RIMC.
Thanks - BB

Also, they charge the buyer $1,000 commission. Which is bascially another $1K off of the offer they will make on your weeks. I agree, its a waste of time and money.

Use Ebay, Redweek, Tug, My Resort Network, Timeshareforums

 

[bertnbb]

Also, they charge the buyer $1,000 commission. Which is bascially another $1K off of the offer they will make on your weeks. I agree, its a waste of time and money.

Use Ebay, Redweek, Tug, My Resort Network, Timeshareforums

Thank you all for the feedback. It is very much appreciated.
I joined RedWeek but Playa Del Sol San Jose Del Cabo is not listed on their site list. I signed up hoping to post my timeshare there. How do I post to a non-listed site??? I emailed them in this regard, but no response.
I will post it at TUG shortly.
Thanks - BB

 

[Carolinian]

I just looked at the deeds in and out of one of these postcard companies for the Outer Banks on the Dare County website. I found several interesting things:

1. They deeded back as deeds of gift two red weeks to one HOA (why could the original owners not have done this themselves without paying through the nose to the postcard company???????)

2. ALL of the deeds from owners to the postcard company were prepared by major out of state timeshare closing services, and ALL lacked one of the requirements for a valid deed in North Carolina. The postcard company could walk away from these weeks, and guess what, they would still belong to the poor sap who shelled out all of that money to get rid of them. Further, when these weeks get sold on eBay, the chain of title of the buyer would have an invalid deed in it.

3. These weeks were deeded to buyers (from eBay?) directly from the postcard company to the buyer, with no middle man in the chain of title. Are the eBay sellers for the postcard companies actually employees of the post card company?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Carolinian, it is nice to see you back from your meetings!

Your insight is always missed when you are not here for a few days.

In the case of tsrecycler that sold me one week, I would say he was an employee. The title of the deed said Vacation Solutions. I asked him if he was with the postcard company and he denied it, but he proceeded to tell me about all the hundred of weeks this company has to sell and that the office is in Englewood, CO. He didn't have to dial long distance to call me when I asked all those questions through ebay.

Our resort has also had a few deedbacks from these sleazes. We also had one guy's week sell through Ochoa and he had answered one of the postcard meetings and paid to give his week back.

Boca is right, it is a profitable business. The question you have to ask yourself is why would this company just give weeks to anyone to sell? They seriously do not just give these away to some company to sell. They sell them or consign them. Makes no sense at all. Of course they are in bed with the resellers. There is no other explanation.

 

[Spence]

These companies know that many resorts will take a deedback striaght from the owner, because they deedback weeks themselves. When they go through their song and dance with their victims misrepresenting what might happen in the future, they are committing fraud. I would really like to see a state AG's consumer protection division take these fraudsters down. They need to be wearing orange jumpsuits for a while.

Powhatan Plantation Resort is now taking deed backs. Sunterra is taking them all off the HOA for some miniscule fee including foreclosures, melding them into the CSV-1 Trust and probably selling them as 'New.' What a racket that get 'new' product to sell AND they now have a Trustee voting the rights.

 

[Carolinian]

Since Sunterra controls the HOA board, this would seem to be a potential conflict of interest. It also seems to be a scheme to make sure they keep control of the HOA board.

Too many of these developers try to bully their way into continued control of HOA's - Sunterra, Fairfield, Celebrity, etc. I wouldn't take a free ownership at one of their resorts.

Powhatan Plantation Resort is now taking deed backs. Sunterra is taking them all off the HOA for some miniscule fee including foreclosures, melding them into the CSV-1 Trust and probably selling them as 'New.' What a racket that get 'new' product to sell AND they now have a Trustee voting the rights.

 

[Carolinian]

These postcard companies know that many resorts will take a deedback striaght from the owner, because the postcard companies deedback weeks themselves. When they go through their song and dance with their victims misrepresenting what might happen in the future, they are committing fraud. I would really like to see a state AG's consumer protection division take these fraudsters down. They need to be wearing orange jumpsuits for a while.

 

[taffy19]

I agree with Cindy that these postcard companies are scum. Yes, it may be legal but they are talking out of both sides of their mouth depending on what hat they wear.

We went once to a similar presentation and they didn't use high pressure but they certainly used fear tactics. They seem to get a lot of older folks coming to these meetings and they rather pay them a big fee than having their kids inherit a liability that they supposedly cannot get rid of.

I am glad Cindy brought this to the foreground a few times already so more people can read it too. JMHO. :annoyed:

 

[bsteigner]

Well it's nice to see that a few posters are starting to make some sense on this thread. Sorry for my abscence. Very busy of late. But I have a few minutes today and just wanted to say I've talked to timeshare relief a couple times in the last couple weeks.

I would suggest talking to them, since otherwise you really don't know what you're talking about. I wondered where a lot of the mud on this thread was coming from, and after talking to them I see it was derived from thin air. The most vehement slingers seem to know the least, which in retrospect makes complete sense.

I read through a lot of the posts again (and for the first time), and see now just how much unsubstantiated crap has been thrown around here like verses from the holy bible. Oh, wait that's unsubstantiated as well.

Anyway, my timeshare saga continues. Been fun. Adios for now.