Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[DanCali]

Those of us who didn’t want the integration at all on the Vistana side are losing out since many Marriott owners (other than yourself) seem to want to trade to the nice Westin resorts. We think it’s a big win for Marriott, and very few advantages to Vistana.

We are concerned we won’t be able to trade in as easily as have been able to for many years. I have no intention of trading into Marriott units using my Vistana StarOptions…up until now I’ve been able to trade into Marriotts just fine via Interval using my less expensive SDO weeks…why would I pay more for less?

Of course, I won’t believe anything until it’s official.


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If I envision this working as an exchange system, in which case the only way Marriott owners would be able to trade into Vistana is if Vistana owners choose to convert their weeks to DC points. If that happens though, it means that Vistana owners are converting weeks to DC points because they see a benefit in doing that, so it'd be premature to say there are "very few advantages to Vistana." There may be advantages to some owners (those who use the DC points system will be doing it voluntarily).

Marriott has treated Hawaii weeks much better than other weeks and if they do that with Vistana, I can certainly envision WKORV/N owners trading for points, potentially making that inventory less accessible to Scottsdale and Orlando Vistana owners. On the other hand, if those WKORV/N owners were just using their weeks as home resort stays, rather than trading with Staroptions, we never really had access to that inventory to begin with. How Vistana will change really depends on how people's usage behaviors change.

Fortunately, I own at places with a high rental value. If I don't use my week and I can rent a 2BR WKV for $4000-$4500 it'd take about 6000 DC points to make it worth it for me to give up that option and convert it to points. Otherwise, I will just rent it out and rent as many points as I need from others (which is pretty much where I am with my Marriott weeks also). Given that very few weeks in the Marriott system get even 5000 points, I'm not holding my breath...

I suspect converting to DC points will be a convenient option for owners of weeks that will get treated more generously and for owners who prefer convenience over the hassle of renting. It is very convenient to use a points system and access to 60+ new high-quality resorts would be an attractive proposition to many.

 

[Ken555]

If I envision this working as an exchange system, in which case the only way Marriott owners would be able to trade into Vistana is if Vistana owners choose to convert their weeks to DC points. If that happens though, it means that Vistana owners are converting weeks to DC points because they see a benefit in doing that, so it'd be premature to say there are "very few advantages to Vistana." There may be advantages to some owners (those who use the DC points system will be doing it voluntarily).

Marriott has treated Hawaii weeks much better than other weeks and if they do that with Vistana, I can certainly envision WKORV/N owners trading for points, potentially making that inventory less accessible to Scottsdale and Orlando Vistana owners. On the other hand, if those WKORV/N owners were just using their weeks as home resort stays, rather than trading with Staroptions, we never really had access to that inventory to begin with. How Vistana will change really depends on how people's usage behaviors change.

Fortunately, I own at places with a high rental value. If I don't use my week and I can rent a 2BR WKV for $4000-$4500 it'd take about 6000 DC points to make it worth it for me to give up that option and convert it to points. Otherwise, I will just rent it out and rent as many points as I need from others (which is pretty much where I am with my Marriott weeks also). Given that very few weeks in the Marriott system get even 5000 points, I'm not holding my breath...

I suspect converting to DC points will be a convenient option for owners of weeks that will get treated more generously and for owners who prefer convenience over the hassle of renting. It is very convenient to use a points system and access to 60+ new high-quality resorts would be an attractive proposition to many.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but what you just posted is what we have discussed for well over a dozen years on TUG regarding how and if an integration between Marriott and SVN/VSN would work. I’m just waiting for them to announce the system, and am not wasting much time thinking about what may be.


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[Mowogo]

Marriott has treated Hawaii weeks much better than other weeks and if they do that with Vistana, I can certainly envision WKORV/N owners trading for points, potentially making that inventory less accessible to Scottsdale and Orlando Vistana owners. On the other hand, if those WKORV/N owners were just using their weeks as home resort stays, rather than trading with Staroptions, we never really had access to that inventory to begin with. How Vistana will change really depends on how people's usage behaviors change.

The main change that is guaranteed to happen with Vistana will be the slow bleeding of inventory from VSN as inventory shifts to trading in the common currency and more voluntary intervals are dropped from the program. The rate will likely depend on how easy they make it for owners to access the common currency, but VSN is never going to have more inventory available than it does today.

 

[Dean]

The main change that is guaranteed to happen with Vistana will be the slow bleeding of inventory from VSN as inventory shifts to trading in the common currency and more voluntary intervals are dropped from the program. The rate will likely depend on how easy they make it for owners to access the common currency, but VSN is never going to have more inventory available than it does today.

There would be a corresponding decrease in competition but like any points system there is inherently more competition during the highest demand times and relatively less at other times.

 

[Dean]

Talked to my MVC sales contact this morning. He says an integrated product is coming second quarter and they expect training and direct information in a few weeks.

 

[Bill R]

I'm a Westin owner. The sales person at our owner's update "encore" at Westin Los Cabos this week went over this at a high level, but mostly to tell us that our Vistana 4 star elite will transfer to Marriott Titanium rather than the Gold it is now. There were some "points" equivalents on the sheet (ha ha) he showed us - I recall 10-15,000? - but when I asked what that was, he said "ignore that". Hmmm
We own St. John and Maui and St. John is already really hard to get into, even for owners. The Interval process is a pain and we have not been able to make that work for us, and we have "eyed" some of the Marriott VC properties, like Marbella, and Kauai, and some other Caribbean locations. Vistana messed up for the Princeville property on Kauai when they let the St. Regis hotel "get away", as it was the best part of the Princeville resort, being able to go to the St. Regis for the day on their beach! And although it needed updating, that St. Regis (or whatever it will be next) has the one of the best locations of anyplace I have ever been, on Hanalei Bay. That was a really dumb Marriott decision, IMO. Anyway, we are pretty happy with the Westin locations but definitely interesting in others! We bought because we love Hawaii, although they (the State, and the Westin) have let the pandemic throw them for a loop. I think the manager of WKORN should be fired.

My impression from our very nice and maybe too honest Los Cabos sales person is that the time shares sales have been VERY hurt by the pandemic, and they are offering a lot for folks to buy SOMETHING! We'd like to see some kind of usable - other than Interval - exchange and reservation system to "trade" into Marriott VC properties. And I will admit that Vistana's system is not always easy to understand and use...

 

[lorenmd]

we just completed an update at the marriott which we do not own. we are vistana owners. he said it is projected to be announced end of april. marriott and vistana properties will no longer be in II, but their own internal system. Disney will fill that hole and will now trade in II. the one thing he said which i don't believe is that the only way for us to get into marriott DC points is to buy marriott points even 1000 of them. he does not believe that we will automatically have access to DC points for a small annual fee but i hope he is wrong. he also said it is voluntary. one year i can convert to DC points and one year i can use my star options as always. so the big question for me is, can i convert two of my non owner weeks to in the network for a set amount of new money. and will there be a fee to join marriott DC points. next week we are at our home resort SDO and we will see how they present it. i am looking forward to having access to all the marriott properties especially at the 60 day mark. and he did say my MF will be less than if i had them all converted to DC points permanently. he said i wouldn't want to do that. MF with DC points is much higher.

 

[jwalk03]

we just completed an update at the marriott which we do not own. we are vistana owners. he said it is projected to be announced end of april. marriott and vistana properties will no longer be in II, but their own internal system. Disney will fill that hole and will now trade in II. the one thing he said which i don't believe is that the only way for us to get into marriott DC points is to buy marriott points even 1000 of them. he does not believe that we will automatically have access to DC points for a small annual fee but i hope he is wrong. he also said it is voluntary. one year i can convert to DC points and one year i can use my star options as always. so the big question for me is, can i convert two of my non owner weeks to in the network for a set amount of new money. and will there be a fee to join marriott DC points. next week we are at our home resort SDO and we will see how they present it. i am looking forward to having access to all the marriott properties especially at the 60 day mark. and he did say my MF will be less than if i had them all converted to DC points permanently. he said i wouldn't want to do that. MF with DC points is much higher.

no way in the world Marriott & Vistana are leaving II, such a common sales lie they have been using for years to try and get people to buy DC points instead of trading.

 

[Eric B]

marriott and vistana properties will no longer be in II, but their own internal system.

Interesting thought that really would be a surprise if it came to pass. Cutting Marriott and Vistana properties out of II, which is also owned by the same company, would hurt the income of the company by reducing the amount of exchange fees they get from Marriott and Vistana owners. It would also hurt both Marriott and Vistana by reducing the flow of sales prospects from exchanges. What could possibly be the motivation for a company to do that sort of thing? Oh, it would also limit what they can do with underperforming inventory that would otherwise be bulk deposited with the exchanges.

 

[VacationForever]

Lies, lies and more lies..

 

[ljmiii]

marriott and vistana properties will no longer be in II, but their own internal system...

To pick this lie out of the raft of others...

Through ILG, II is owned by Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Why would they want to shoot themselves in the foot? And even if they did leave II...so what?!? Weeks owners would still own their weeks and can use, rent, or trade them as they wish. If II was no longer willing to trade Marriott and Vistana weeks, we would all decamp to one of the other timeshare exchange companies (e.g. SFX) that would be more than happy to take us.

 

[SandyPGravel]

I can't wait to turn down my owner's update in March.

 

[dioxide45]

we just completed an update at the marriott which we do not own. we are vistana owners. he said it is projected to be announced end of april. marriott and vistana properties will no longer be in II, but their own internal system. Disney will fill that hole and will now trade in II. the one thing he said which i don't believe is that the only way for us to get into marriott DC points is to buy marriott points even 1000 of them. he does not believe that we will automatically have access to DC points for a small annual fee but i hope he is wrong. he also said it is voluntary. one year i can convert to DC points and one year i can use my star options as always. so the big question for me is, can i convert two of my non owner weeks to in the network for a set amount of new money. and will there be a fee to join marriott DC points. next week we are at our home resort SDO and we will see how they present it. i am looking forward to having access to all the marriott properties especially at the 60 day mark. and he did say my MF will be less than if i had them all converted to DC points permanently. he said i wouldn't want to do that. MF with DC points is much higher.

We heard this line after Marriott rolled out DC. How Marriott would no longer deposit weeks to II and how Marriott inventory would dry up in II. Has it happened? No, not really. Sure there have been some changes in deposit patterns and the number of weeks Marriott deposits, but for the most part people are still getting Marriott exchanges. Also, most of the people that bought resale post June 2010 have II as their only real exchange option. Another thing to remember, that while the number of deposits into II go down the number of people seeking deposits also goes down by the same amount.

We will continue to see Marriott and Vistana weeks available in II for years to come. That said, Vistana availability in II has definitely changed over the years. Mostly after Vistana started to allow StarOption banking and borrowing.

 

[Bird01]

According to a couple of Vistana sales presentations I attended the past 2 weeks:
1. there is no new program
2. Vistana owners will be able to convert their developer-purchased or qualified Vistana weeks and flex points to DC pointd based on a set exchange rate on an annual basis - no fee
3. Vistana elite owners will be granted the equivalent MVCI elite level - no fee
4. MVCI owners will able to book vistana properties using DC points based on a set echange rate - no fee
5. Vistana will only sell DC points starting June 1st or sooner

Does Vistana know the common currency yet conversion ratios yet. I just attended a Vistana presentation where they offered enough Westin Flex + enrolling options to make me a Chairman's Club on the MVC side (Elite 5 on Vistana side). Can they actually "promise" that or is that just a sales pitch?

 

[Ken555]

Does Vistana know the common currency yet conversion ratios yet. I just attended a Vistana presentation where they offered enough Westin Flex + enrolling options to make me a Chairman's Club on the MVC side (Elite 5 on Vistana side). Can they actually "promise" that or is that just a sales pitch?

If it’s not in writing, you know the answer.


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[dioxide45]

Does Vistana know the common currency yet conversion ratios yet. I just attended a Vistana presentation where they offered enough Westin Flex + enrolling options to make me a Chairman's Club on the MVC side (Elite 5 on Vistana side). Can they actually "promise" that or is that just a sales pitch?

They haven't confirmed, but numbers thrown around here from sales presentation speculation are;
Westin Flex 28:1
Sheraton Flex 32:1
Westing Aventuras ???
All the Other HomeOption Programs (Nanea, WSJ) ???

 

[Bird01]

They haven't confirmed, but numbers thrown around here from sales presentation speculation are;
Westin Flex 28:1
Sheraton Flex 32:1
Westing Aventuras ???
All the Other HomeOption Programs (Nanea, WSJ) ???

Thank you. First #'s I've seen. My concern is after the conversion that the DC Points won't reserve a full week (7 days) at my resorts. I believe that happened to some Marriott owners back in 2010 or so.

 

[dioxide45]

Thank you. First #'s I've seen. My concern is after the conversion that the DC Points won't reserve a full week (7 days) at my resorts. I believe that happened to some Marriott owners back in 2010 or so.

That is very possible, that is why you would continue to use your week to book your home resort. StarOptions and VSN also won't go away. You will still be able to use it just as you would today. The concern though is that if Marriott offers a lot of DC points to certain Vistana weeks (Hawaii), they may be more likely to convert their weeks to DC points leaving less available inventory to book in VSN.

 

[rog2867]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

Not a single resort in the whole collection? No Hawaii, no St. John, Bahamas, Mexico?

 

[suzannesimon]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

I’ve found the Westins to be slightly better resorts than the Marriotts. I have both but gravitate to the Westin resorts more frequently.

 

[Dean]

Not a single resort in the whole collection? No Hawaii, no St. John, Bahamas, Mexico?

As I've said before, I don't think Westin/Vistana brings anything to the table for me. We wouldn't go to St. John or Atlantis and don't plan to return to MX. They do add volume for Maui only IMO (for us) but that is not worth extra competition in my view. Hyatt would be another matter but that doesn't appear to be on the table at the present time. MVC potentially adds a lot more to the other side but ultimately it depends on how a crossover or combined product flushes out. I'll wait and see but be skeptical though being Chairman's Club I suspect I'll be in a better position than most to take advantage of any options going forward.

 

[THSMTHS]

We own deeded weeks in both systems. Marriott deeded weeks loose value when converted to points. They loose value a second time converting into II's point system. We purchased high season, for trading power. (Blue in the II book) To me, it doesn't make any sense to settle for less then what was purchased. The way to do that, is deposit weeks instead of points into II to trade. Since 1992 we have only had 2 bad II trades. There are some wonderful resorts out there that do not belong to Marriott or Vistana. At this time it is unlikely we would trade our Westin Nanae weeks for anything outside of Vistana, but time will tell. It will be interesting to see how everything might be laid out between the two consortium's. I am hoping that everyone will not be in the same pot, at the same time for accessing both resort groups, as we bought both Marriott and Vistana resorts for different reasons. That being said, I am probably being overly optimistic.

 

[dneveu]

We attended a timeshare presentation this weekend in dessert springs CA. We chose the $250 visa gift card option, Presentation was low key and nice discussion. At 40 minutes when asked if we wanted to buy points and said no thank you the closer came in and we we wrapped up at 45 minutes.

Sales manager said Vistana /Westin units will all be in the points system by 6/30/22. We talked about some if those properties. There is no ETA for when Hyatt residence club (HRC) units will be in system, although believes will happen in future and point levels for current tiers will go up then (+ grandfather current owners). As HRC has fractional units like Ritz did and benefits at HRC currently are higher this made sense to us knowing history of Ritz and how tiers changed from original 3 to current 5 (after a ritz added). We asked if any changes to Interval are being planned - answer was no. No changes to interval (ie ability to deposit or trade).

 

[CPNY]

We attended a timeshare presentation this weekend in dessert springs CA. We chose the $250 visa gift card option, Presentation was low key and nice discussion. At 40 minutes when asked if we wanted to buy points and said no thank you the closer came in and we we wrapped up at 45 minutes.

Sales manager said Vistana /Westin units will all be in the points system by 6/30/22. We talked about some if those properties. There is no ETA for when Hyatt residence club (HRC) units will be in system, although believes will happen in future and point levels for current tiers will go up then (+ grandfather current owners). As HRC has fractional units like Ritz did and benefits at HRC currently are higher this made sense to us knowing history of Ritz and how tiers changed from original 3 to current 5 (after a ritz added). We asked if any changes to Interval are being planned - answer was no. No changes to interval (ie ability to deposit or trade).

I though HRC would never be integrated into the Vistana/Marriott Vacation club universe, unless contracts are renegotiated. (@JIMinNC Fixed it)

 

[JIMinNC]

We attended a timeshare presentation this weekend in dessert springs CA. We chose the $250 visa gift card option, Presentation was low key and nice discussion. At 40 minutes when asked if we wanted to buy points and said no thank you the closer came in and we we wrapped up at 45 minutes.

Sales manager said Vistana /Westin units will all be in the points system by 6/30/22. We talked about some if those properties. There is no ETA for when Hyatt residence club (HRC) units will be in system, although believes will happen in future and point levels for current tiers will go up then (+ grandfather current owners). As HRC has fractional units like Ritz did and benefits at HRC currently are higher this made sense to us knowing history of Ritz and how tiers changed from original 3 to current 5 (after a ritz added). We asked if any changes to Interval are being planned - answer was no. No changes to interval (ie ability to deposit or trade).

Actually, according to Marriott Vacations Worldwide's Executive Team during their investor presentations, the Hyatt HRC program is expressly prohibited from being integrated with Marriott/Westin/Sheraton by the licensing agreement with Hyatt Hotels, which retains all rights to the HRC brands. That is why MVW bought Welk Resorts and is rebranding them as Hyatt - to build out the Hyatt product that will likely always be managed separately from the Marriott/Westin/Sheraton branded network.

I guess "never" is a long time, because agreements can be renegotiated, but unless something major changes with Hyatt Hotels, there is no intention to ever integrate Hyatt.