Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[SueDonJ]

All "official" indications via Marriott Vacations Worldwide Investor Calls have been that following Vistana coming under the MVW umbrella, there will be some type of Vistana/Marriott timeshare integration with reciprocal usage benefits. Sales reps have been mentioning it for quite some time but lately it appears to be ramped up with some sales presentations including written presentation material. It is important to note that until MVW/Vistana executive-level communications are distributed to all owners/members, nothing that is said during a sales presentation can be taken as official notice. (If history repeats, based on how the Destination Club points program was introduced to Marriott owners at the time, there will be changes made to the owners' websites on the release date and then emails/snail mail will follow.)

With more and more info making its way out of sales presentations, it's time to focus TUG's efforts to consolidate all of the available tidbits so that the many, many participants here who own Vistana and Marriott timeshares won't have to dig through thread after thread after thread (and thank you to @dioxide45 for suggesting it!)

This thread will serve as the Marriott forum's catch-all from this point forward, and I'm sending a link to Denise so she knows what's happening on this board. Please feel free to share, discuss, speculate until the cows come home. Except, please try to limit duplicate posts as much as possible. Instead of posting the same info on both forums, maybe post in your forum of choice and then drop a link to your post in the other forum? We'll do our best to keep some semblance of order so that all of us who are impacted can make sense of things.

Good luck to all of us!

 

[JIMinNC]

Before I saw this thread, I had posted my thoughts on the recent round of rumors in the thread on this topic on the Vistana forum that was mentioned in the weekly TUG email newsletter today. While we are trying to consolidate, I think what I wrote there fits here as well, so while I will not duplicate any other posts, I do think it makes sense to add that one post here to start the discussion. Hopefully that's OK, but if not, Susan and/or Denise can adjust as necessary. Below is a link to that Vistana thread, followed by what I wrote there:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/vistana-will-finally-integrate-with-mvci-on-june-1st.331769/

I haven't engaged much in the recent Marriott/Vistana integration speculation because it seemed to be just that - rampant speculation and spin by Sales. This recent round feels different to me, though, and seems more credible for the following reasons:

1) The reported timing is generally consistent with what Executive Management has disclosed in their investor/earnings presentations
2) It seems we have now had multiple reports that have said basically the same thing
3) Most of those reports have come from the Vistana side of the integration. If these latest rumors are true, the Vistana reps are now selling a product that will soon sunset (as far as new sales are concerned), so it makes sense that they have been briefed at a high level what the new product will look like so they can adapt their sales presentation to let prospects know that while they are buying FlexOptions today, those will eventually convert to Destination Points on some basis.

So, while I agree that anything you hear at a sales presentation needs to be taken with a large grain of salt, this latest round may actually be our first meaningful clues as to what the eventual integration will look like. Of course, it could also turn out to be just more B.S. (Bountiful Speculation - thanks @davidvel for the acronym), but this does feel different to me.

 

[jmhpsu93]

This is a great idea - should be a sticky.

 

[dioxide45]

This is a great idea - should be a sticky.

It sounds good in theory, but I would actually disagree. No one looks at stickies. They bypass them and just look at the rest of the posts in the main forum.

 

[bogey21]

I think one thing is certain and that is Marriott will figure out how to gin more revenue out of whatever they do...

George

 

[Ken555]

Good. Let’s keep all the fiction in one place for now. Thanks.


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[dioxide45]

Will there be a similar single "official" thread in the Vistana forum for discussion over there? There are certainly difference in how this could impact Vistana owners and we see just as many 'I got great new" threads from timeshare presentations over in that forum.

 

[suzannesimon]

You can be sure that whatever it is, it won’t be free. I see a lot of Facebook posts from new owners asking where on the Vistana (or Marriott) website do they go to book those resorts.

 

[dhstache]

Will probably be a new "program" with a fee to join and be able to access what's called "Common Currency". Would prefer the word "integration" not be used as full integration or merger will not happen per MVW Exec words (aka, no changes or consolidation of the separate land trusts). The brands, ownership process, benefits, and points systems will remain in place. MVW has indicated the new program will be for Points owners only, Deeded Week owners will continue thru Interval. Also indications that Vistana to MVC will be a higher "common currency conversion" than MVC to Vistana. Common Currency program will only be between MVC, Westin, and Sheraton VCs (not other MVW brands and not sure about the couple of "Vistana" named resorts, which are contract relationships with MVW).

 

[Eric B]

... Vistana to MVC will be a higher "common currency conversion" than MVC to Vistana.

Interesting thought. I kind of wonder how much Vistana availability will go to MVC if that's the case as it would disincentivize Vistana owners from exchanging into MVC. Could be the availability would be from developer-owned inventory, but then it would be the developer losing out on the exchange rate difference. TANSTAAFL, after all.

 

[JIMinNC]

Will probably be a new "program" with a fee to join and be able to access what's called "Common Currency". Would prefer the word "integration" not be used as full integration or merger will not happen per MVW Exec words (aka, no changes or consolidation of the separate land trusts). The brands, ownership process, benefits, and points systems will remain in place. MVW has indicated the new program will be for Points owners only, Deeded Week owners will continue thru Interval. Also indications that Vistana to MVC will be a higher "common currency conversion" than MVC to Vistana. Common Currency program will only be between MVC, Westin, and Sheraton VCs (not other MVW brands and not sure about the couple of "Vistana" named resorts, which are contract relationships with MVW).

Might be true, but MVW executive management has also spoken of a two-phase integration - 1) a Common Points Currency, and 2) a Common Points Product that would eventually be sold at all Marriott/Westin/Sheraton locations. Given that the timeline for the integration has been stretched out due to the impacts of the pandemic, it is possible they used the time to blend the two-phases into one transition, but that's only speculation, and is mainly based on the rumors coming out of recent sales presentations that have stated that after the transition, only one points product will be sold. Only time will tell on that.

But even if they DO transition to a single product for all new sales, the existing legacy systems will likely continue more or less as is (i.e. legacy Vistana and Marriott owners won't be forced to give up their current system, and could use their existing ownership as they have been doing), but legacy owners may have to pay a fee or make a purchase to upgrade their ownership to the new product/exchange program.

 

[Norcal5]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

 

[VacationForever]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

I also prefer MVC resorts although I own both Vistana and MVC and there are just a couple of Vistana resorts which we enjoy. Having said that, until I see the details of the integration, I don't believe it will be truly one system. I believe it will act more like the Wyndham-Worldmark-Shell model where owners only get to cross book at at shorter timeframe, like at 8 months.

 

[Ken555]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

Those of us who didn’t want the integration at all on the Vistana side are losing out since many Marriott owners (other than yourself) seem to want to trade to the nice Westin resorts. We think it’s a big win for Marriott, and very few advantages to Vistana.

We are concerned we won’t be able to trade in as easily as have been able to for many years. I have no intention of trading into Marriott units using my Vistana StarOptions…up until now I’ve been able to trade into Marriotts just fine via Interval using my less expensive SDO weeks…why would I pay more for less?

Of course, I won’t believe anything until it’s official.


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[alexadeparis]

The only thing I wonder is if we will be able as Vistana owners to convert to MVC points and then sell those points in the rental pool. Due to personal circumstances, it doesn't seem like I will be doing too much traveling in the coming years - it would be nice if I could break even on MF costs out vs. Rental fees in. I am not looking to make money - just mitigate my losses.

 

[SueDonJ]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

I have no idea what's coming so can't form an opinion now about whether it will be more advantageous for Marriott or Vistana owners, or, whether it'll work well with my particular Marriott ownership or not. I still think the easiest (relatively) thing they can do that will benefit all owners is to allow Vistana owners/members to become Destination Club members in the same way that Marriott owners are allowed, i.e. an additional usage option to elect Destination Club Exchange Points annually that would be subject to the same DC rules and processes that we Marriott DC members are subject to. But my guess as to what they will do is only as good as anyone else's.

 

[JIMinNC]

This is such a bummer. Zero advantage to Marriott owners. Big win for Vistana. There is not a single resort I’m interested in on the Vistana side. Is anyone else feeling like we points owners are going to be losing out?

I feel very differently, as there are several Vistana resorts I would like to visit if and when we can use Destination Points. My top targets would be:

- Westin Los Cabos (have stayed here before on a Vistana preview package, and thought is was a great place)
- The Maui Westins as an even year alternative/change of pace from our odd year Marriott's Maui Ocean Club ownership
- Westin St. John
- Sheraton PGA for golf

I also would probably consider the Palm Desert Westins as occasional alternatives to the Marriott Desert Springs resort.

While I agree Marriott adds a wider variety of new locations for legacy Vistana owners than Marriott owners get from Vistana, for us there is still significant value in the integration.

 

[Norcal5]

I feel very differently, as there are several Vistana resorts I would like to visit if and when we can use Destination Points. My top targets would be:

- Westin Los Cabos (have stayed here before on a Vistana preview package, and thought is was a great place)
- The Maui Westins as an even year alternative/change of pace from our odd year Marriott's Maui Ocean Club ownership
- Westin St. John
- Sheraton PGA for golf

I also would probably consider the Palm Desert Westins as occasional alternatives to the Marriott Desert Springs resort.

While I agree Marriott adds a wider variety of new locations for legacy Vistana owners than Marriott owners get from Vistana, for us there is still significant value in the integration.

I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the Westin Los Cabos. Now that would be nice. Thank you for bringing it up.

 

[suzannesimon]

I own Marriotts, Vistana’s and a Hyatt week. Since I have access to all 3, I would prefer the status quo. I hear the same thing from both Vistana and Marriott owners. Vistana thinks they are losing out, that Marriott owners will take all the Vistana weeks because they are so much better than Marriotts. Marriott owners think the opposite. I’m not worried since I rarely use any weeks other than my owned weeks anyway, but there are more Westin’s I would like to try than Marriotts. They are just a hair superior in my opinion over Marriott especially in the service area.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I am just hoping for DC points created II deposits, I don't lose the ability to exchange those into Vistana. Right now, you can't use them for Marriott, hopefully that stays the same.

 

[Dean]

I don't think any of us truly know what to expect other than some major big picture principles. None of what I'll say is different than I've said before. For me personally I see no real addition to the options that I will likely use other than possibly to increased volume, mostly for Maui. The places where there are truly differences don't interest me, others will feel differently. I truly expect some type of overlay at this point and possibly a direct integration with the DC system at some point. I think it's likely the highest levels of MVC will have access to whatever comes out up front, I'm not so sure about the same being true for the other systems, we'll see. Some were concerned about increased competition for Orlando getaways with DVC coming back to II. Increased competition for the top options ia a major risk with whatever final product is instituted.

Steve I think it's likely that one will ultimately lose that option with points based deposits but not weeks based ones.

 

[Sicnarf]

Will probably be a new "program" with a fee to join and be able to access what's called "Common Currency". Would prefer the word "integration" not be used as full integration or merger will not happen per MVW Exec words (aka, no changes or consolidation of the separate land trusts). The brands, ownership process, benefits, and points systems will remain in place. MVW has indicated the new program will be for Points owners only, Deeded Week owners will continue thru Interval. Also indications that Vistana to MVC will be a higher "common currency conversion" than MVC to Vistana. Common Currency program will only be between MVC, Westin, and Sheraton VCs (not other MVW brands and not sure about the couple of "Vistana" named resorts, which are contract relationships with MVW).

According to a couple of Vistana sales presentations I attended the past 2 weeks:
1. there is no new program
2. Vistana owners will be able to convert their developer-purchased or qualified Vistana weeks and flex points to DC pointd based on a set exchange rate on an annual basis - no fee
3. Vistana elite owners will be granted the equivalent MVCI elite level - no fee
4. MVCI owners will able to book vistana properties using DC points based on a set echange rate - no fee
5. Vistana will only sell DC points starting June 1st or sooner

 

[Sicnarf]

I have no idea what's coming so can't form an opinion now about whether it will be more advantageous for Marriott or Vistana owners, or, whether it'll work well with my particular Marriott ownership or not. I still think the easiest (relatively) thing they can do that will benefit all owners is to allow Vistana owners/members to become Destination Club members in the same way that Marriott owners are allowed, i.e. an additional usage option to elect Destination Club Exchange Points annually that would be subject to the same DC rules and processes that we Marriott DC members are subject to. But my guess as to what they will do is only as good as anyone else's.

Yes, this is how it will be rolled out according to the 2 sales presentations I attended the past 2 weeks - no fees!

 

[dioxide45]

I own Marriotts, Vistana’s and a Hyatt week. Since I have access to all 3, I would prefer the status quo. I hear the same thing from both Vistana and Marriott owners. Vistana thinks they are losing out, that Marriott owners will take all the Vistana weeks because they are so much better than Marriotts. Marriott owners think the opposite. I’m not worried since I rarely use any weeks other than my owned weeks anyway, but there are more Westin’s I would like to try than Marriotts. They are just a hair superior in my opinion over Marriott especially in the service area.

I would agree. We own both Vistana and Marriott. We don't trade Vistana in II, so getting free exchanges wouldn't help us there. It would be nice to have a single annual fee instead of the $215 DC Fee plus the $215 we now pay in VSN fees for our two Vistana weeks. Outside of that, we already have access to both systems and I fear that StarOption availability will become scarce at resorts where Marriott may offer a big amount of DC points. Think Maui mainly.

 

[DanCali]

The only thing I wonder is if we will be able as Vistana owners to convert to MVC points and then sell those points in the rental pool. Due to personal circumstances, it doesn't seem like I will be doing too much traveling in the coming years - it would be nice if I could break even on MF costs out vs. Rental fees in. I am not looking to make money - just mitigate my losses.

Even if you could rent points, I wouldn't count on point rental to be better than actually renting your Vistana weeks.