CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[dsmrp]

I’m interested in what the levels will be, as there are some 3* that would transfer to Executive even at 32:1 which could Really be beneficial to that group of owners.

That could be me, as I'm 3*, but own at SVR, so will likely be a corner case with a pretty high conversion ratio.

 

[dioxide45]

Seems like they've "tried to be fair to both sides" – they've just tried a little harder to be fair to Marriott owners at the expense of Vistana owners.

The points amounts that I posted are the amount to book a prime week at Canyon Villas. Looking at how many points a Canyon Villas owner gets if they elect points, it is much lower. 3,900 for Plat Plus (I think these are holiday weeks) and only 2,950 for Platinum 2BR weeks. Based on comparison to Canyon Villas, it seems WKV is getting a good DC point valuation. As it should.

 

[daviator]

The points amounts that I posted are the amount to book a prime week at Canyon Villas. Looking at how many points a Canyon Villas owner gets if they elect points, it is much lower. 3,900 for Plat Plus (I think these are holiday weeks) and only 2,950 for Platinum 2BR weeks. Based on comparison to Canyon Villas, it seems WKV is getting a good DC point valuation.

So my take on the whole DP system is this: if you want to exchange your week in the DP system, you can do so, but you will receive a lot less value than what you give up. Essentially you pay a cost for the trading flexibility/access, and that cost is that you'll receive some combination of a smaller room, fewer days, or a lower-quality property than what you've given up.

It seems like Interval might still be a better way of exchanging outside of VSN? Who knows how all of these changes will impact inventory with II though. There's less booking certainty with II, it's usually request, wait and hope.

 

[dioxide45]

So far, we don't know anything new that we didn't know yesterday. Other than some rumors were true. Though we knew they have been working on a combined program for years. I guess we know now that Vistana owners will have to elect DC points. Though that was speculated for years too and seems to be common sense. Still no real mechanics of how it works, but if Vistana owners are electing DC points, then when they elect their ownership goes into the MVC Exchange company for any DC points to reserve, whether that be at 13 months or 8 months or even 2. One question I have that isn't answered; what happens to unreserved Flex trust inventory at 8 months. That used to go to VSN. Does that still happen or will it go to MVC Exchange?

 

[dioxide45]

So my take on the whole DP system is this: if you want to exchange your week in the DP system, you can do so, but you will receive a lot less value than what you give up. Essentially you pay a cost for the trading flexibility/access, and that cost is that you'll receive some combination of a smaller room, fewer days, or a lower-quality property than what you've given up.

It seems like Interval might still be a better way of exchanging outside of VSN? Who knows how all of these changes will impact inventory with II though. There's less booking certainty with II, it's usually request, wait and hope.

Generally that is how it works in the current Marriott DC program. There was a 5-15% skim on elected weeks overall depending on the resort. The week you give up gives you DC points that may or may not be enough to book back into the same resort, depending on the time of year. You may be able to elect your Platinum week for DC points and then book a lower time of year and have points left over. Or you may want to book prime time and need to book a smaller unit or less time. This will likely be very true in Hawaii where Vistana only sold one season with the same point values throughout the year. With DC, you may be able to elect points and travel in October for fewer points than you own and have some left over. Or if you want to go in the summer or a holiday week, you are better to just use VSN.

 

[CPNY]

So far, we don't know anything new that we didn't know yesterday. Other than some rumors were true. Though we knew they have been working on a combined program for years. I guess we know now that Vistana owners will have to elect DC points. Though that was speculated for years too and seems to be common sense. Still no real mechanics of how it works, but if Vistana owners are electing DC points, then when they elect their ownership goes into the MVC Exchange company for any DC points to reserve, whether that be at 13 months or 8 months or even 2. One question I have that isn't answered; what happens to unreserved Flex trust inventory at 8 months. That used to go to VSN. Does that still happen or will it go to MVC Exchange?

Those flex owners can only book in the VSN if they didn’t elect so I’d assume the inventory would stay as well.

 

[daviator]

So far, we don't know anything new that we didn't know yesterday. Other than some rumors were true. Though we knew they have been working on a combined program for years. I guess we know now that Vistana owners will have to elect DC points. Though that was speculated for years too and seems to be common sense. Still no real mechanics of how it works, but if Vistana owners are electing DC points, then when they elect their ownership goes into the MVC Exchange company for any DC points to reserve, whether that be at 13 months or 8 months or even 2. One question I have that isn't answered; what happens to unreserved Flex trust inventory at 8 months. That used to go to VSN. Does that still happen or will it go to MVC Exchange?

That's one of the big questions. If it stays in VSN, then nothing really changes except when a Flex owner elects to choose DC points.

But if all the unreserved Flex inventory goes into MVC, then presumably the Flex owners lose their priority for reserving with Vistana for the 8-0 month period. That means the DC people can rush in and snatch those up and leave Flex owners stuck with Marriott properties. So anyone who bought into Flex expecting to use it for Vistana properties might be unhappy, they'd be forced to book 8-12 months ahead to get them.

All of this is making my head hurt.

 

[CPNY]

That's one of the big questions. If it stays in VSN, then nothing really changes except when a Flex owner elects to choose DC points.

But if all the unreserved Flex inventory goes into MVC, then presumably the Flex owners lose their priority for reserving with Vistana for the 8-0 month period. That means the DC people can rush in and snatch those up and leave Flex owners stuck with Marriott properties. So anyone who bought into Flex expecting to use it for Vistana properties might be unhappy, they'd be forced to book 8-12 months ahead to get them.

All of this is making my head hurt.

As much as they want to combine, it’s going to act like an easier interval exchange for eligible ownerships (those with the ability to convert to bonvoy points now). Nothing more, nothing less. I think they will sell both points at all locations. Do you want bucket number 1 or bucket number 2?

 

[dioxide45]

Those flex owners can only book in the VSN if they didn’t elect so I’d assume the inventory would stay as well.

That's one of the big questions. If it stays in VSN, then nothing really changes except when a Flex owner elects to choose DC points.

But if all the unreserved Flex inventory goes into MVC, then presumably the Flex owners lose their priority for reserving with Vistana for the 8-0 month period. That means the DC people can rush in and snatch those up and leave Flex owners stuck with Marriott properties. So anyone who bought into Flex expecting to use it for Vistana properties might be unhappy, they'd be forced to book 8-12 months ahead to get them.

All of this is making my head hurt.

Reading this. I agree with @CPNY . I think the Flex inventory will drop into VSN at 8 months. The question is though, what inventory do they take from the Flex trusts when a Vistana owner elects DC points? I suspect a Flex owner will probably have to convert an entire contract, not just partial contracts. So if they have an 81K and 44K Flex contracts, they can't elect just 50K of the points, or even 20K. They need to choose which one to elect and which one not to. I don't know if this is really how it would work, but it keeps things cleaner.

Back to the question of what gets pulled from the trust. Do they take out the prime resorts and prime seasons to move to the MVC Exchange Company? We don't know and probably will never really know. Timeshare companies aren't known for transparency when it comes to the mechanics behind the curtain.

 

[robertk2012]

So far, we don't know anything new that we didn't know yesterday. Other than some rumors were true. Though we knew they have been working on a combined program for years. I guess we know now that Vistana owners will have to elect DC points. Though that was speculated for years too and seems to be common sense. Still no real mechanics of how it works, but if Vistana owners are electing DC points, then when they elect their ownership goes into the MVC Exchange company for any DC points to reserve, whether that be at 13 months or 8 months or even 2. One question I have that isn't answered; what happens to unreserved Flex trust inventory at 8 months. That used to go to VSN. Does that still happen or will it go to MVC Exchange?

I don’t see how legally they could move that inventory.

 

[dioxide45]

I don’t see how legally they could move that inventory.

Yeah, thinking it through a little more, I expect it to stay in VSN. The question is, what gets pulled when a Flex owner does elect DC points.

 

[robertk2012]

Most of the deeds in the trusts are trash anyways.

 

[CPNY]

Reading this. I agree with @CPNY . I think the Flex inventory will drop into VSN at 8 months. The question is though, what inventory do they take from the Flex trusts when a Vistana owner elects DC points? I suspect a Flex owner will probably have to convert an entire contract, not just partial contracts. So if they have an 81K and 44K Flex contracts, they can't elect just 50K of the points, or even 20K. They need to choose which one to elect and which one not to. I don't know if this is really how it would work, but it keeps things cleaner.

Back to the question of what gets pulled from the trust. Do they take out the prime resorts and prime seasons to move to the MVC Exchange Company? We don't know and probably will never really know. Timeshare companies aren't known for transparency when it comes to the mechanics behind the curtain.

After I wrote what I wrote I thought to myself, what inventory would they keep In the VSN? Well, considering the Flex inventory is left over junk weeks, I’d assume both systems would get left over junk weeks. The silver lining in all of this is that HRA won’t be able to convert until 2024 and I’m hoping it’s one of those things where 2024 turns into 2026 and then 2028. In the end i hope they can never convert and it’s only available in the VSN.

I think for retro deeded weeks it’s def the full unit converted, flex may be the same based on the contract but do they sell flex contracts based on corresponding unit sizes and seasons? Let’s say they sell based on unit size, season, and resort then yes I can see you having to enroll the whole contract. If they don’t sell each VOI with a unit or mix or units to back up the contract amount, then maybe it will be a sliding scale and Marriott will determine what they deposit or it could be like the flex option chart that it takes to deposit in interval.

 

[jabberwocky]

Those flex owners can only book in the VSN if they didn’t elect so I’d assume the inventory would stay as well.

If it is a resale Flex package it can’t book in VSN. It would stay as a home resort booking within the particular collection. Right now is suspect most flex out there are developer purchases, but that could change over time. It’s not clear how this would translate into DP points for resale Flex.

 

[CPNY]

If it is a resale Flex package it can’t book in VSN. It would stay as a home resort booking within the particular collection. Right now is suspect most flex out there are developer purchases, but that could change over time. It’s not clear how this would translate into DP points for resale Flex.

True, so basically the resale voluntary junk flex units will go to Marriott to do what they see fit. AWESOME! Let the DC owners book Arizona in July lol

 

[dioxide45]

True, so basically the resale voluntary junk flex units will go to Marriott to do what they see fit. AWESOME! Let the DC owners book Arizona in July lol

If a WKV weeks owner elects DC points, Marriott can pull some week to make available in the DC program. A lot will depend on owner's willingness to elect DC points for their weeks.

Over time, I wonder if Marriott will continue to feed Vistana deedbacks and foreclosures back into the Flex trusts or if they will start moving them into the DC Trust. Also, Marriott hasn't been one to continue to sell weeks like Vistana has. If Vistana gets an OF Maui week or an event week, they turn around and sell that as a week. When Marriott got back similar Marriott weeks, they conveyed them to the trust. Not sure what will happen going forward but I would suspect Marriott will want to start making good Vistana weeks more easily available in the combined program. So what is junk today will get better over time. Not all Flex inventory is junk. Sheraton Flex isn't the best, but I suspect there are some good Westin weeks in the Westin Flex. Just no Maui Oceanfront. We know that the flex trusts own some good inventory at the mountain resorts.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Reading through this thread I'm certainly looking forward to "VSN For Dummies" being published because I just want to know how to take a vacation

 

[CPNY]

If a WKV weeks owner elects DC points, Marriott can pull some week to make available in the DC program. A lot will depend on owner's willingness to elect DC points for their weeks.

Over time, I wonder if Marriott will continue to feed Vistana deedbacks and foreclosures back into the Flex trusts or if they will start moving them into the DC Trust. Also, Marriott hasn't been one to continue to sell weeks like Vistana has. If Vistana gets an OF Maui week or an event week, they turn around and sell that as a week. When Marriott got back similar Marriott weeks, they conveyed them to the trust. Not sure what will happen going forward but I would suspect Marriott will want to start making good Vistana weeks more easily available in the combined program. So what is junk today will get better over time. Not all Flex inventory is junk. Sheraton Flex isn't the best, but I suspect there are some good Westin weeks in the Westin Flex. Just no Maui Oceanfront. We know that the flex trusts own some good inventory at the mountain resorts.

Let’s hope that when all this happens, I’m done with my timeshares and I have enough money to buy a condo at the reef at Atlantis lol. In the end, I’ll rent Harborside and keep my SVV for interval exchanges and getaways. It’s going to take quite a bit of time to really see the program change drastically for the worse. It may be a PITA for a while but before online booking via the dashboard, reserving vistana star option bookings was also a big PITA. thanks for making us go backwards Marriott haha.

 

[CPNY]

Reading through this thread I'm certainly looking forward to "VSN For Dummies" being published because I just want to know how to take a vacation

Chapter 1. GIVE MARRIOTT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
Chapter 2. Pretend Marriott is the greatest timeshare company on the planet
Chapter 3. GIVE MARRIOTT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MORE DOLLARS to achieve some status level that means a hill of beans.
Chapter 4. You die
Chapter 5. Your kids give away your Marriott points because in the future there are much cooler ways to vacation in outer space, also they bought vacation club points that are good for stays in a 5 star Resort by Elon Musk on Mars.
The End

 

[KACTravels]

OK all you smart people...Please help me with if you think 118,000 Sheraton Flex are better than SVV 2Bd Fountains 81,000 SO + SVV 2 Bd Biannual 81,000 every other year. I have until next Thursday to rescind. We traded in the 2 SVV deeds for 118K Sheraton Flex Options and paid $17K with about $600 more in Maintenance Fees per year. I feel really silly for asking, because I would automatically tell some one to rescind, research and buy resale, but I don’t know that that applies in our case.

Advantage for Sheraton Flex is 9 home resorts as options with home resort priority and vs SVV which we never use as “Home”. And perceived advantage of Flexibility to elect to go with Marriott with the Sheraton Flex Options.

Our Sales reps claims “Because once the completion happens there will be weeks that can't be upgraded. Marriott does not do upgrades using your old dollars for a new product.“. For those of you that know both systems (for how they exist today) Is this true?

I thought it made since to upgrade into Sheraton Flex before the finalized program because we only use SVV for 8 month SO Vistana or occasionally II Trades and I thought S Flex would be more flexible with Marriott. Now, I just don’t know. Thanks in advance for your thoughts in this.

 

[jabberwocky]

OK all you smart people...Please help me with if you think 118,000 Sheraton Flex are better than SVV 2Bd Fountains 81,000 SO + SVV 2 Bd Biannual 81,000 every other year. I have until next Thursday to rescind. We traded in the 2 SVV deeds for 118K Sheraton Flex Options and paid $17K with about $600 more in Maintenance Fees per year. I feel really silly for asking, because I would automatically tell some one to rescind, research and buy resale, but I don’t know that that applies in our case.

Advantage for Sheraton Flex is 9 home resorts as options with home resort priority and vs SVV which we never use as “Home”. And perceived advantage of Flexibility to elect to go with Marriott with the Sheraton Flex Options.

Our Sales reps claims “Because once the completion happens there will be weeks that can't be upgraded. Marriott does not do upgrades using your old dollars for a new product.“. For those of you that know both systems (for how they exist today) Is this true?

I thought it made since to upgrade into Sheraton Flex before the finalized program because we only use SVV for 8 month SO Vistana or occasionally II Trades and I thought S Flex would be more flexible with Marriott. Now, I just don’t know. Thanks in advance for your thoughts in this.

Hmmm…121k SO vs 118k and you pay $17k upfront and $600 more per year in MF while giving up two deeds.

Tough call.









Just kidding. Of course you should rescind!

 

[dioxide45]

OK all you smart people...Please help me with if you think 118,000 Sheraton Flex are better than SVV 2Bd Fountains 81,000 SO + SVV 2 Bd Biannual 81,000 every other year. I have until next Thursday to rescind. We traded in the 2 SVV deeds for 118K Sheraton Flex Options and paid $17K with about $600 more in Maintenance Fees per year. I feel really silly for asking, because I would automatically tell some one to rescind, research and buy resale, but I don’t know that that applies in our case.

Advantage for Sheraton Flex is 9 home resorts as options with home resort priority and vs SVV which we never use as “Home”. And perceived advantage of Flexibility to elect to go with Marriott with the Sheraton Flex Options.

Our Sales reps claims “Because once the completion happens there will be weeks that can't be upgraded. Marriott does not do upgrades using your old dollars for a new product.“. For those of you that know both systems (for how they exist today) Is this true?

I thought it made since to upgrade into Sheraton Flex before the finalized program because we only use SVV for 8 month SO Vistana or occasionally II Trades and I thought S Flex would be more flexible with Marriott. Now, I just don’t know. i appreciate in advance your thoughts.

I would expect SVV Prime (platinum) weeks to get about 2750 Club points. This is inline with Grande Vista Vistana Resort may get fewer just due to the resort not being as sought after as SVV. Perhaps more like the Royal and Sabal Palms 2BR Red weeks. They only receive about 2,150 Club points when elected. Of course one of yours is EOY. If conversion rates mentioned earlier are true, your 118,000 Sheraton Flex would only get about 3,700 Club Points. I think the rescind and research applies in your case. I am not really sure what/why you bought. YOu aren't really getting more HomeOptions/StarOptions than you were getting already and you are paying more in annual fees and $17K to boot. Regardless of how this all plays out, if you already have StarOptions with your two weeks, then you gain nothing except more fees and lost money by keeping the deal. RESCIND.

 

[dioxide45]

Hmmm…162k SO vs 112k and you pay $17k upfront and $600 more per year in MF while giving up two deeds.

Tough call.









Just kidding. Of course you should rescind!

One of the deeds was just EOY, but the answer is the same. RESCIND!

 

[jabberwocky]

One of the deeds was just EOY, but the answer is the same. RESCIND!

Sorry. Read it too quickly. Fixed. But still don’t understand trading in good deeds that have SO for flex.

 

[CPNY]

OK all you smart people...Please help me with if you think 118,000 Sheraton Flex are better than SVV 2Bd Fountains 81,000 SO + SVV 2 Bd Biannual 81,000 every other year. I have until next Thursday to rescind. We traded in the 2 SVV deeds for 118K Sheraton Flex Options and paid $17K with about $600 more in Maintenance Fees per year. I feel really silly for asking, because I would automatically tell some one to rescind, research and buy resale, but I don’t know that that applies in our case.

Advantage for Sheraton Flex is 9 home resorts as options with home resort priority and vs SVV which we never use as “Home”. And perceived advantage of Flexibility to elect to go with Marriott with the Sheraton Flex Options.

Our Sales reps claims “Because once the completion happens there will be weeks that can't be upgraded. Marriott does not do upgrades using your old dollars for a new product.“. For those of you that know both systems (for how they exist today) Is this true?

I thought it made since to upgrade into Sheraton Flex before the finalized program because we only use SVV for 8 month SO Vistana or occasionally II Trades and I thought S Flex would be more flexible with Marriott. Now, I just don’t know. Thanks in advance for your thoughts in this.

Your SVR had SO so you’d be eligible in whatever new program. If you bought with the intention of electing to DC, just go and buy DC points.

Rescind and keep what you have. Wasting 17K and increasing your annual fee is absurd since you’re only getting a handful more options. I’d buy WKV 2 bed plat for the VSN and cut down everything else