CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[Eric B]

After I wrote what I wrote I thought to myself, what inventory would they keep In the VSN? Well, considering the Flex inventory is left over junk weeks, I’d assume both systems would get left over junk weeks. The silver lining in all of this is that HRA won’t be able to convert until 2024 and I’m hoping it’s one of those things where 2024 turns into 2026 and then 2028. In the end i hope they can never convert and it’s only available in the VSN.

I think for retro deeded weeks it’s def the full unit converted, flex may be the same based on the contract but do they sell flex contracts based on corresponding unit sizes and seasons? Let’s say they sell based on unit size, season, and resort then yes I can see you having to enroll the whole contract. If they don’t sell each VOI with a unit or mix or units to back up the contract amount, then maybe it will be a sliding scale and Marriott will determine what they deposit or it could be like the flex option chart that it takes to deposit in interval.

My thoughts on the subject is that there will be a fairly complicated judgement involved with the Flex inventory as well as the deeded fixed and floating inventory because it's not all owned by vacationers - there's a fair amount that the developer owns and either uses to satisfy booking requests by Flex owners (for the Flex inventory in the 12-8 month window), by deeded week owners (for the floating week and unsold deeded-week inventory in the 12-18 month window), and by VSN members (for all in the 0-8 month window). There is already a certain amount of competition for the bookings in the VSN window because Marriott does rent out units outside of the VSN as well as the bulk deposits into interval. Given a shift to a unified reservation system on the hardware side, having separate exchange systems overlaid on it should be possible to allow allocations to happen between DC and VSN that can be adjusted for demand.

I don't really think the impact will be as great on avid tuggers that book as soon as they are able to and plan years in advance for their vacations. The average TS owner doesn't do that (even though they probably should). I haven't seen any reported numbers for when reservations are made using VSN, but in other systems I use it's considerably lower than the reservation opening windows. Folks on tug do seem to know a lot more about how the systems work than the average owner; anecdotally, I spoke with someone the other day that didn't know they could book a different week than their fixed week at Virgin Grand Villas or how to do it if they wanted to and had owned there for 20 years.

 

[KACTravels]

I used to tell my kids that if they couldn't tell me what they were doing, they probably shouldn't be doing it. I intentionally didn't post our offer/deal in this TUG forum because I knew deep down that it was a bad deal and decision . We will rescind - Thank you for setting me straight. I feel like I just participated in a TUG confessional!

 

[CPNY]

My thoughts on the subject is that there will be a fairly complicated judgement involved with the Flex inventory as well as the deeded fixed and floating inventory because it's not all owned by vacationers - there's a fair amount that the developer owns and either uses to satisfy booking requests by Flex owners (for the Flex inventory in the 12-8 month window), by deeded week owners (for the floating week and unsold deeded-week inventory in the 12-18 month window), and by VSN members (for all in the 0-8 month window). There is already a certain amount of competition for the bookings in the VSN window because Marriott does rent out units outside of the VSN as well as the bulk deposits into interval. Given a shift to a unified reservation system on the hardware side, having separate exchange systems overlaid on it should be possible to allow allocations to happen between DC and VSN that can be adjusted for demand.

I don't really think the impact will be as great on avid tuggers that book as soon as they are able to and plan years in advance for their vacations. The average TS owner doesn't do that (even though they probably should). I haven't seen any reported numbers for when reservations are made using VSN, but in other systems I use it's considerably lower than the reservation opening windows. Folks on tug do seem to know a lot more about how the systems work than the average owner; anecdotally, I spoke with someone the other day that didn't know they could book a different week than their fixed week at Virgin Grand Villas or how to do it if they wanted to and had owned there for 20 years.

What I got out of this is, Marriott controls the inventory anyway so they could starve the VSN intentionally and frustrate owners enough to give in and buy DC points. No dice, I’ll rent!

 

[Eric B]

What I got out of this is, Marriott controls the inventory anyway so they could starve the VSN intentionally and frustrate owners enough to give in and buy DC points. No dice, I’ll rent!

They already have that power to a certain extent for certain ownership types (Flex and floating week) by juggling the weeks they choose to rent out versus those that owners can access via VSN. Of course, the incentives have to be there for them to decide that they will block off all the high-demand non-deeded weeks from VSN and make them solely available to rental customers. The fact that it doesn't already happen kind of indicates to me that the incentives aren't there for them to take that kind of action - perhaps because of the difficulty in renting those particular weeks to folks and the potential reputational impact for them. The same issues would occur if they were to purposely favor the DC owners over Vistana ones. My bottom line view is that it is a possibility but has not happened yet and might not ever happen so I'm not going to worry about it. I'm also not going to buy any DC points from Marriott because I like what I own.

 

[CPNY]

They already have that power to a certain extent for certain ownership types (Flex and floating week) by juggling the weeks they choose to rent out versus those that owners can access via VSN. Of course, the incentives have to be there for them to decide that they will block off all the high-demand non-deeded weeks from VSN and make them solely available to rental customers. The fact that it doesn't already happen kind of indicates to me that the incentives aren't there for them to take that kind of action - perhaps because of the difficulty in renting those particular weeks to folks and the potential reputational impact for them. The same issues would occur if they were to purposely favor the DC owners over Vistana ones. My bottom line view is that it is a possibility but has not happened yet and might not ever happen so I'm not going to worry about it. I'm also not going to buy any DC points from Marriott because I like what I own.

I’m not going to worry either, one thing I know is there will always be owners to rent from and If I really want to go somewhere I can just buy there (ridiculous maint fees and all)

 

[lily28]

how will harborside weeks work in the merger? i own a summer week there with high demand in summer but poor staroptions to maintenance fee ratio

 

[pchung6]

I have been checking Vistana website everyday 3-4 times every few hours. I haven’t noticed any MVC related messages. The only thing very obvious is Vistana website is damn broken 90% of the time.

 

[dioxide45]

I have been checking Vistana website everyday 3-4 times every few hours. I haven’t noticed any MVC related messages. The only thing very obvious is Vistana website is damn broken 90% of the time.

What? You haven't seen this?
[Removed faked image to prevent...]

 

[VacationForever]

What? You haven't seen this?
View attachment 49993

Wait... waaat? You are RICH!

 

[pchung6]

What? You haven't seen this?
View attachment 49993

This is a joke, right? Nothing from my end.

 

[vacationtime1]

What? You haven't seen this?
View attachment 49993

Hmmm. Doesn't show on my Dashboard details -- for either of my Kierland VOI's or my WKORV.

But is anyone expecting consistency from Marriott? (81K SO's converting to 7250 DC points would be nice)

 

[CPNY]

What? You haven't seen this?
View attachment 49993

So you finally posted it hahaha

 

[daviator]

What? You haven't seen this?
View attachment 49993

I am assuming this is a bit of Photoshop magic, right? If so, touché.

The tip-off is the 11:1 ratio for SVR...

I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1 yet!

 

[dioxide45]

I am assuming this is a bit of Photoshop magic, right? If so, touché.

The tip-off is the 11:1 ratio for SVR...

Hey now, it was SVV. Not SVR!

Wait... waaat? You are RICH!

Yeah, especially when I can give myself however many DC points as I want

 

[CPNY]

how will harborside weeks work in the merger? i own a summer week there with high demand in summer but poor staroptions to maintenance fee ratio

No one knows but you can do really well with Harborside in interval. I know many who get awesome trades in interval with their HRA summer weeks. You can easily pick up Marriott Aruba weeks.

In the fine print it says Harborside won’t be available to be elected into the program until 2023 for 2024 reservations. It also doesn’t give a specific timeline for Marriott owners to book it but they say more specific information will be given at a later date. There could be so many reasons why that is. We shall see how it all plays out. I hope Harborside never becomes eligible to be elected and it all stays in the VSN

 

[TSKing]

I am assuming this is a bit of Photoshop magic, right? If so, touché.

The tip-off is the 11:1 ratio for SVR...

I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1 yet!

Definitely a hoax! I see nothing on my Dashboard if MVC points. When I recently attended a “special “ sales presentation I was told the exchange would be Westin 26 and Sheraton 42. As people in this board say, who believes what salespeople say! But I think it may be close and I think those having Sheraton will be a little screwed. Of course, you don’t have to convert it to MVC.

 

[TSKing]

live anecdotal reporting of a presentation today on one of the Marriott Facebook groups is as follows:
"The take away was that Starwood Owners will have to buy into Marriott’s Trust Points to be able to use the System and there are now 70 Resorts. According to the [salesperson], Marriott has worked extremely hard to be fair to all existing Owners (Marriott and Starwood)."

I had a virtual sales presentation in February, and was basically advised the same thing. He said that a Vistana owner will not have access to trade for Marriott properties. Only through an external exchange as it is already. So unless you buy MVC points or maybe there will be some offer that you can change a Vistana for Marriott points, for a price of course. The latter is totally hypothetical. But I own MVC points and I also own Sheraton and Westin options. So because I own in both, I will have the opportunity to convert to MVC. I don't know the details of that either, is it a one time thing, is it an annual election or what??? Who knows. As usual they keep us in suspense. And in the meantime try to sell you something based on their "knowledge" of what is to come!

 

[dioxide45]

I had a virtual sales presentation in February, and was basically advised the same thing. He said that a Vistana owner will not have access to trade for Marriott properties. Only through an external exchange as it is already. So unless you buy MVC points or maybe there will be some offer that you can change a Vistana for Marriott points, for a price of course. The latter is totally hypothetical. But I own MVC points and I also own Sheraton and Westin options. So because I own in both, I will have the opportunity to convert to MVC. I don't know the details of that either, is it a one time thing, is it an annual election or what??? Who knows. As usual they keep us in suspense. And in the meantime try to sell you something based on their "knowledge" of what is to come!

Based on the limited information in the marketing material we have seen images of. This doesn't seem to be the case. I am sure when one goes to a MVC presentation, it will be that you need to buy DC Trust points. Go to a Vistana presentation and you will need to buy Flex. What you need depends on where you tour and in the end you don't need it at all.

 

[Red elephant]

No one knows but you can do really well with Harborside in interval. I know many who get awesome trades in interval with their HRA summer weeks. You can easily pick up Marriott Aruba weeks.

In the fine print it says Harborside won’t be available to be elected into the program until 2023 for 2024 reservations. It also doesn’t give a specific timeline for Marriott owners to book it but they say more specific information will be given at a later date. There could be so many reasons why that is. We shall see how it all plays out. I hope Harborside never becomes eligible to be elected and it all stays in the VSN

I was told that HRA is difficult because of different investor or something like that. No plans to include it as of yet. I was also told that they have to update the conversion rates as sunset bay and coral vista at WSJ got low conversion numbers and SVV and SVR got high conversion numbers. He was trying to give me my conversion numbers for my weeks from yesterday but noticed the numbers were no longer there.

 

[Red elephant]

Definitely a hoax! I see nothing on my Dashboard if MVC points. When I recently attended a “special “ sales presentation I was told the exchange would be Westin 26 and Sheraton 42. As people in this board say, who believes what salespeople say! But I think it may be close and I think those having Sheraton will be a little screwed. Of course, you don’t have to convert it to MVC.

I was told my 2 bedroom non lockoff at SVR was going to be converted to 2600. I did not get the full amount but that range.

 

[Red elephant]

So far, we don't know anything new that we didn't know yesterday. Other than some rumors were true. Though we knew they have been working on a combined program for years. I guess we know now that Vistana owners will have to elect DC points. Though that was speculated for years too and seems to be common sense. Still no real mechanics of how it works, but if Vistana owners are electing DC points, then when they elect their ownership goes into the MVC Exchange company for any DC points to reserve, whether that be at 13 months or 8 months or even 2. One question I have that isn't answered; what happens to unreserved Flex trust inventory at 8 months. That used to go to VSN. Does that still happen or will it go to MVC Exchange?

Unreserved flex trust at 8 months goes into VSN just like unreserved home options and weeks.

 

[VacationForever]

I wonder if the new program has provision for combining ownership from both systems to get owners to a higher ownership level. For instance if you are Presidential in MVC and 4* Elite in Vistana, you get enough points to get to Chairman Club in the MVC system.

 

[Red elephant]

But will Club Points owners have to elect something to travel to a Vistana property??? How does it work from the MVC owner side???

They will use their DC point equivalent for that Vistana property and book like they do now.

 

[Red elephant]

I wonder if the new program has provision for combining ownership from both systems to get owners to a higher ownership level. For instance if you are Presidential in MVC and 4* Elite in Vistana, you get enough points to get to Chairman Club in the MVC system.

That is a good question. He did not mention a point equivalent to ownership level.
I am 5* elite and I was told I am now chairman and titanium elite with bonvoy. He read off the benefits which are much better than 5 * elite especially if you use DC points. Something about 30% discount with 60 day bookings or something.

 

[dioxide45]

What I don't understand is, if they have sales touting these changes why not send out an email or have an announcement on their websites? I don't get it. A soft launch seems to be to allow them to make some changes based on owner feedback from presentations?