CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[bizaro86]

Copy and pasting from the other thread so we can discuss specific items here.

• Here are some answers for you from my source: I didn't choose the questions to answer, nor do I have any info about this topic myself, and I posted the response verbatim, so you'll have to take the answers below at face value.

• My source has agreed to do one more round of questions, for now.

Main question. How is the DC or exchange vehicle being funded with Sheraton/Westin inventory?
When someone elects to DC points, that inventory gets placed in DC inventory

does mandatory resale week and voluntary weeks have capability to elect marriott points, or only enrolled weeks are allowed?
NO resales qualify and once live we will not retro weeks, they are out of luck

What is the cost, if any, for Vistana owners to participate in the new program (Either an “enrollment fee” or purchase requirement) and is it different if they are already Marriott points owners (trust or enrolled)?
No cost to enroll in DC points. The VSN club dues will change, more to come, its actually higher but better, no more fees after that

Is the election for Vistana into DC a one time decision or an annual decision (like currently exchanging for Bonvoy/Interval)?
Every year you decide what does and does not go in DC. You can split but each VOI can't be split, you owns a 148,100 flex, it all goes in or none of it

Regarding 3, 4, 5 Star.
That transfers over to DC Ownership levels as you indicated.

Does the Vistana level still determine Bonvoy status or is it based on DC Status of Executive, Chairman, Etc.?
Higher levels of DC status get Bonvoy Titanium. We discussed 3 star 4 star and 5 star. if for some reason you are not at that level but your points convert to DC and it hits that level, you get it

Can Vistana ownership DC points-equivalence be added onto MVC DC points to achieve a higher status?
pretty sure the answer is yes

When (date) will owners actually be able to start electing their Vistana ownership for Club Points?
This summer for 2023 usage

When will we be officially notified of this merger, as Vistana owners?
summer for 2023 usage, pretty much when it happens. This is a soft rollout. Just like when Marriott did it, one day it's old, one day its new

are the details in contract form or is this information from someone you trust (but still only verbal)
none of this in contract. As Denise know's My information is accurate and yes owners are trusting us. Sales are brisk already

Interesting info. My only thought right now is why does WFlex convert at a lower rate than SFlex and Aventuras?
100,000 SFX gets you 2920, WFX, 3469, Aventuras 3333 sorry, WFX and SFX was backwards, good catch by a poster

(separate topic)
FYI HARBORSIDE AND RIVERFRONT .. WON'T BE INCLUDED PROBABLY UNTIL 2024 .everything else is in

Do 3* and above get "Platinum for LIFE" or Platinum as long as you maintain TS-Status" like current Marriott TS-Owners who are also eligible for "Titanium"?
yes ownership must be current

With Marriott, you have until Sept 30 (Oct 31 for higher ownership levels) of the year prior to your use year to elect Club Points. So for 2022 use year, Marriott owners had to elect points by Sept 30, 2021. I suspect for Vistana, they will be electing for 2023 use year from the start

I have one more video to watch, will know soon. FYI I CANNOT answer any questions on the MVC side

Conversion for deeded weeks is complicated. Orlando weeks, not great, Lagunamar pretty good, Kanapali good to very good. Pretty much what you would expect !!

Vistana will STOP selling Flex soon enough, I don't have a date. We will then sell DC points. My guess is whatever is not sold will get dumped into DC points plus, as I said, when people elect, those options get dumped in also. Even though TUGers are very skeptical, I can't imagine any Vistana owner isn't thrilled with this info except for resale owners of course. We sold for years, to get to 5 Star and get Platinum for life. Well now MVC says, just get to 3 Star and we will give you it

Thanks for cross posting for discussion. There are a number of tells that this source is someone in the sales organization, likely a salesperson/manager.

That incentivizes a certain type of response. For example, I think it's very likely they believe resales won't be able to retro after the hard launch, because that is what their training says and that will allow them to push retro hard between now and then. But logically speaking that doesn't seem likely. MVC has allowed their own legacy weeks to be enrolled as a promotion with a purchase on an extremely regular basis. It seems incredibly unlikely to me that vistana weeks would not be included there.

 

[CPNY]

Thanks for cross posting for discussion. There are a number of tells that this source is someone in the sales organization, likely a salesperson/manager.

That incentivizes a certain type of response. For example, I think it's very likely they believe resales won't be able to retro after the hard launch, because that is what their training says and that will allow them to push retro hard between now and then. But logically speaking that doesn't seem likely. MVC has allowed their own legacy weeks to be enrolled as a promotion with a purchase on an extremely regular basis. It seems incredibly unlikely to me that vistana weeks would not be included there.

I thought the same thing. This sounds like a “get the word out to owners and tell them to BUY NOW”!!

I am sure I if I walk into a sales office in a year and say here is $30,000 for 2500 DC Points but I’ll only do the deal if you retro my resale weeks, I bet they will say sure thing!

 

[vistana101]

Super excited for the platinum for life as a 3-star member. And very glad we didn't spend the proposed $200,000 to become 5-star elite 5 years ago (which is a great example of why not to buy more timeshares from the developer to achieve certain perks that can later get devalued).

 

[bizaro86]

I thought the same thing. This sounds like a “get the word out to owners and tell them to BUY NOW”!!

I am sure I if I walk into a sales office in a year and say here is $30,000 for 2500 DC Points but I’ll only do the deal if you retro my resale weeks, I bet they will say sure thing!

Or they'll respectfully say I'm so sorry sir we can't retro into the VSN but we'd be happy to enroll them into the DC along with your purchase of DC points at today's special price that I've written upside down for you.

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks for cross posting for discussion. There are a number of tells that this source is someone in the sales organization, likely a salesperson/manager.

That incentivizes a certain type of response. For example, I think it's very likely they believe resales won't be able to retro after the hard launch, because that is what their training says and that will allow them to push retro hard between now and then. But logically speaking that doesn't seem likely. MVC has allowed their own legacy weeks to be enrolled as a promotion with a purchase on an extremely regular basis. It seems incredibly unlikely to me that vistana weeks would not be included there.

I agree. I do think there will be a retro type program as there is today in the MVC world. It may just not be the $10K + $5K like Vistana has today. It will be the minimum 3,000 DC points to enroll a resale/unqualified week. The more weeks you want to enroll, the more points you have to buy. It will just be a lot more expensive than it is today and may be part of their *somewhat* annual summer promotion. If it goes this way, the cost to retro almost triples.

 

[dioxide45]

Resale owners are excluded, even resale owners of mandatory weeks with StarOptions who are part of VSN and paying VSN fees, but you mentioned VSN fees are going up. Please confirm: VSN fees are going up for resale owners, even though resale owners do not get any benefit?

Hopefully Denise's rep will provide clarification, but I suspect there will be an enrollment step that will require owners to agree to the Destinations Club terms and the increased fee. While they could change the fee structure of VSN, it causes issues with unqualified mandatory weeks. I just don't see them doing this across the board. I know they say "no enrollment", but I don't see a way around it. There just won't be a fee to enroll. Unqualified weeks will be blocked from enrollment.

 

[bizaro86]

I agree. I do think there will be a retro type program as there is today in the MVC world. It may just not be the $10K + $5K like Vistana has today. It will be the minimum 3,000 DC points to enroll a resale/unqualified week. The more weeks you want to enroll, the more points you have to buy. It will just be a lot more expensive than it is today and may be part of their *somewhat* annual summer promotion. If it goes this way, the cost to retro almost triples.

I agree with this. Speaking only for myself, as someone unwilling to spend anything close to $15k on enrollment whether they charge $15k or $30k makes no difference. Obviously if one was on the fence maybe their opinion is different.

The general thrust of my comment was that it is wise to consider the incentives of and information available to anyone you're using as a source. There are enough hints in those responses that I am more than 95% certain that the source is in sales, so considering that when deciding whether to act on the information is wise.

For example - someone considering rushing to enroll 1 week for $15k might be better served buying 4 more resales and enrolling with an Aruba purchase in 2 years if they still think they need DC access. (Or maybe not, that would be a lot of vacation time...)

 

[Red elephant]

Or they'll respectfully say I'm so sorry sir we can't retro into the VSN but we'd be happy to enroll them into the DC along with your purchase of DC points at today's special price that I've written upside down for you.

I was under the impression that any retro’s or ROFR goes into DC points.

 

[dioxide45]

I was under the impression that any retro’s or ROFR goes into DC points.

With retros, Marriott/Vistana doesn't actually take back the deed. They just enroll it in the program to be eligible to elect Club Points. It doesn't mean that the owner has to elect Club Points. For Vistana retros, they could just use them in VSN which as a voluntary week they would have been prevented from using before retro. ROFR will certainly be put into one of the trusts.

I wonder going forward if Vistana will continue to sell high end weeks such as Maui oceanfront as weeks or will all those deeds go into the a trust?

 

[Red elephant]

With retros, Marriott/Vistana doesn't actually take back the deed. They just enroll it in the program to be eligible to elect Club Points. It doesn't mean that the owner has to elect Club Points. For Vistana retros, they could just use them in VSN which as a voluntary week they would have been prevented from using before retro. ROFR will certainly be put into one of the trusts.

I wonder going forward if Vistana will continue to sell high end weeks such as Maui oceanfront as weeks or will all those deeds go into the a trust?

Since this acquisition is being finalized then maybe Vistana will only sell DC points in the near future and no weeks will be sold just like the Marriott model.

 

[Red elephant]

Since this acquisition is being finalized then maybe Vistana will only sell DC points in the near future and no weeks will be sold just like the Marriott model.

I also believe that in order to retro a week you would likely have to buy DC points as that is all that will be sold going forward.

 

[dioxide45]

Since this acquisition is being finalized then maybe Vistana will only sell DC points in the near future and no weeks will be sold just like the Marriott model.

That is what I would expect, but ever since Vistana rolled out their Flex products they have been steadfast in continuing to sell certain high end expensive weeks. I would expect that to change, but who knows.

 

[CPNY]

I wonder going forward if Vistana will continue to sell high end weeks such as Maui oceanfront as weeks or will all those deeds go into the a trust?

Can they stick it in the DC trust sell them with DC points value instead of a SO value? It would lose the ability to trade in the VSN and just be like any other enrolled Marriott week.

 

[dioxide45]

Can they stick it in the DC trust sell them with DC points value instead of a SO value? It would lose the ability to trade in the VSN and just be like any other enrolled Marriott week.

Yes, they could certainly do that and if they only sell DC going forward then that is what they would have to do. I have been watching for conveyances on the DC Trust to see if they started adding any yet. They haven't. This is something I will monitor after full rollout.

 

[vacationtime1]

I wonder going forward if Vistana will continue to sell high end weeks such as Maui oceanfront as weeks or will all those deeds go into the a trust?

I predict that at least some Westin Maui OF deeds will go into the trust.

Marriott obviously intends to sell the DC trust as a superior product, the product of their wonderful merger. The trust therfore needs to have availability in the best units in the acquired properties. The trust doesn't need to own many OF units to be able to say this, but it does need to own some.

The downside for MVC is of course that the OF units can be sold for outrageous prices and the trust can be supported by properties that sell for average prices.

 

[wjarcher]

I predict that at least some Westin Maui OF deeds will go into the trust.

Marriott obviously intends to sell the DC trust as a superior product, the product of their wonderful merger. The trust therfore needs to have availability in the best units in the acquired properties. The trust doesn't need to own many OF units to be able to say this, but it does need to own some.

The downside for MVC is of course that the OF units can be sold for outrageous prices and the trust can be supported by properties that sell for average prices.

If they can assign high DC points for these OF weeks, it might be equally profitable for them to sell DC points at $14/pt.

 

[dioxide45]

If they can assign high DC points for these OF weeks, it might be equally profitable for them to sell DC points at $14/pt.

If they allocate them my estimated 8,000 Club Points, then that works out to $112,000 to sell them as points at $14pp. What does Vistana sell an OF Maui week for these days?

 

[CPNY]

If they allocate them my estimated 8,000 Club Points, then that works out to $112,000 to sell them as points at $14pp. What does Vistana sell an OF Maui week for these days?

Marriott would have the nerve to sell this to people. 112K for a week in an OF unit is hilarious

 

[vacationtime1]

Marriott would have the nerve to sell this to people. 112K for a week in an OF unit is hilarious

Isn't that exactly what they are doing when they sell points for $14 and require 8650 of them to reserve a summer OF week?

 

[CPNY]

Isn't that exactly what they are doing when they sell points for $14 and require 8650 of them to reserve a summer OF week?

And it’s ridiculous when you look at it. 112K plus interest (if financed) + Annual fees. How many time must someone go to be ahead or break even? 30? 40?

 

[rcv82]

If they allocate them my estimated 8,000 Club Points, then that works out to $112,000 to sell them as points at $14pp. What does Vistana sell an OF Maui week for these days?

At an owner update last year, Vistana quoted the price of a WKORV oceanfront deluxe (2br) unit at $140k, with a COVID discount to $99.9k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bizaro86]

And it’s ridiculous when you look at it. 112K plus interest (if financed) + Annual fees. How many time must someone go to be ahead or break even? 30? 40?

If financed at TS interest rates at that price the answer is never.

 

[robertk2012]

Some of this like the no retro looks like typical salesman bs.

 

[KACTravels]

My rep says that 2BDLO WKORN OF will be 8,325 DC points.

 

[Mroze]

Vistana-Owners fall into one/more of the following [possibly more]:

1. Developer [DIRECT]
2. Flex-Points [Westin, Sheraton, Aventuras]
3. Resale [Mandatory + Enrolled]
4. Resale [Voluntary + Enrolled]
5. Resale [Mandatory]
6. Resale [Voluntary]

Assumptions

• Assume 1-Developer & 2-Flex are eligible to participate in the DC-Program.
• Assume that Resale-Enrolled [3-Mandatory or 4-Voluntary] can also participate in the DC-Program.
• Will Resale-Non-Enrolled [5-Mandatory or 6-Voluntary] units be eligible to participate in the DC-Program for an additional cost?

*Mandatory: WKV, HRA, KAA, KAN, WSJ [Virgin-Grand/Hillside], SVV [Bella/Key-West]
#Enrolled = Resale - > Retroed