StayPC/Vacation Candy Demanding Repayment for Rental

[RX8]

This is renters not understanding trip insurance or just electing to roll the dice. My guess is rolling the dice since VacationCandy suggests at time of contract that they purchase trip insurance.

VacationCandy is trying to salvage their client relationship by making the owners pay. While I sympathize with the renters, they had an option to protect themselves and failed to do so. A contract is a contract.

If VacationCandy does not want this to happen to them in the future they should include the cost of trip insurance into their rental fee.

 

[tschwa2]

Almost all travel insurance excludes non travel due to an epidemic or pandemic. They would have paid and still be asking you for a refund.

 

[ocdb8r]

Almost all travel insurance excludes non travel due to an epidemic or pandemic. They would have paid and still be asking you for a refund.

This is a statement that's getting kicked around here on TUG a lot lately that simply isn't true. Every insurer has it's own policy restrictions and in fact most of them are silent on "pandemics" but are referencing other provisions that may exclude coverage. In the case of the coverage VacationCandy recommended, coverage is explicitly provided if you are placed in quarantine but is explicitly excluded for travel restrictions imposed for a certain area by a governmental authority. Bottom line, these cases are not cut and dry by any means.

 

[chapjim]

Forget "Acts of God." This clearly isn't one. I haven't offered a legal analysis about VC's "frustration of purpose" argument because it is a difficult area of contract law. And I only got B's in Contracts and that was over thirty years ago. I've got a Restatement of the Law of Contracts on a shelf someplace but I'm not going to try to find it.

In my situation, which I've detailed a couple different places on the boards, I've about decided that if Bonnet Creek closes completely, I'll return the entire amount of $3,495 and eat the $200 selling expenses. But, if it stays open, I'm going to stand firm. Remember, I've already agreed to return $3,295. Since Wyndham has agreed to return points until the day before check-in, I'll wait until then.

In the meantime, I'm sending VC the latest Wyndham notices to show that Bonnet Creek's status hasn't changed. BC is not accepting check-ins through April 1. My guess is that as we approach April 1, the "no check-in" date will get pushed out.

 

[TravelAmore]

This is a statement that's getting kicked around here on TUG a lot lately that simply isn't true. Every insurer has it's own policy restrictions and in fact most of them are silent on "pandemics" but are referencing other provisions that may exclude coverage. In the case of the coverage VacationCandy recommended, coverage is explicitly provided if you are placed in quarantine but is explicitly excluded for travel restrictions imposed for a certain area by a governmental authority. Bottom line, these cases are not cut and dry by any means.

Please let us know which carrier/insurer you’ve found has policies that have been purchased and covered expenses (under any of its provisions) and actually provided reimbursement of travel funds in full or partially for travel interrupted by a pandemic or epidemic conditions.

Since this situation with novel Coronavirus has presented itself, I have spoken with five insurance agents or representatives of carriers providing travel coverage and have found NONE who have been able to identify a carrier. I was one of the Tuggers who shared the information I’d gathered about travel insurance on TUG. It sounds like you have different knowledge or experiences with travel insurance carriers. If you have a few to suggest, I’d appreciate the information. I want to plan travel next year with my short notice deposited 2020 week (into II), I’d like to insure my trip.

Thanks in advance for the recommendations!


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[ocdb8r]

Please let us know which carrier/insurer you’ve found has policies that have been purchased and covered expenses (under any of its provisions) and actually provided reimbursement of travel funds in full or partially for travel interrupted by a pandemic or epidemic conditions.

Since this situation with novel Coronavirus has presented itself, I have spoken with five insurance agents or representatives of carriers providing travel coverage and have found NONE who have been able to identify a carrier. I was one of the Tuggers who shared the information I’d gathered about travel insurance on TUG. It sounds like you have different knowledge or experiences with travel insurance carriers. If you have a few to suggest, I’d appreciate the information. I want to plan travel next year with my short notice deposited 2020 week (into II), I’d like to insure my trip.

Thanks in advance for the recommendations!

I'm not sure our posts are at odds, nor am I sure I can offer what you're looking for.

1) As I mentioned, (at least prior to this pandemic) most insurance policies were silent on pandemic coverage....that means they neither explicitly include nor exclude coverage. Given this, I'm not surprised you're struggling to find a carrier that explicitly includes coverage for such an event - it's simply not been in the minds of most underwriters up until now;

2) In the short term I expect the initial updates to policies to EXCLUDE such coverage if they mention it at all;

3) Over time, some insurance companies may come to explicitly INCLUDE coverage, once they feel they've developed a model capable of pricing the risk.

None of the above changes the assertion I made that policies written prior to the current pandemic are mostly silent (I have actually not found a single policy that explicitly references pandemic or epidemic, but I've only examined 3 or 4 particularly closely) and so it's a matter of interpretation of the other clauses in the policy as to whether coverage applies. I posted above specific clauses from the CST Travel Protection plan recommended by VacationCandy. It explicitly INCLUDES coverage if you are placed in quarantine....but excludes coverage for travel restrictions imposed for a certain area by a governmental authority. So, in this case, it really depends on what caused the individual to cancel their trip.

 

[ocdb8r]

Forget "Acts of God." This clearly isn't one.

I agree this is likely one of the weaker arguments, however, what constitutes an "Act of God" is not settled law as it relates to a pandemic, so I certainly wouldn't throw it out completely.

 

[TDS]

VacationCandy has apparently backed off on their original position, expecting an owner to provide a full refund. I received the following message tonight.

First, we would like to apologize for the first email that was sent out. We do value our owners and we are hoping to continue those relationships with our owners and hopefully find the best solution available to both owners and guests. ​

​

That being said, we understand a refund is not as simple as what guests expect them to be. These last few weeks have been tireless explanations of timeshare ownership, and the financial impacts of everyone involved beyond themselves. We understand that MVC/Vistana/etc. are offering flexibility in cancellations and rebooking options. ​

​

Given the catastrophic nature of this event for many guests involved, we are passing these requests along to our owners. While guests do understand our reservations are non-cancellable given our Terms & Conditions, the magnitude of this globally evolving event does warrant asking our owners what their options are at this time and communicating what our guests are asking of us. ​

​

Our position does require a careful balance of owner and guest relationships. Without guests, we cannot rent your inventory through our service, how everyone involved proceeds will influence the future of ownership rentals beyond VacationCandy. In the interest of mitigating guest backlash, we are relaying the request of the guest to our owners through these emails.​

​

We ask that you please look into the options that may be available to you for this reservation and let us know that way we can pass those along to our guest, we would greatly appreciate it. ​

This is a much more appropriate response, which I appreciate. I have responded, offering multiple replacement options for the guest to consider, which is what I have done with other renters I'm working with. I want to be fair and I while I realize not everyone has flexibility in their travel, I will be as accommodating as I can be to provide a fair alternative for the renter. I hope we can find a mutually agreeable resolution.

 

[grgs]

I'm glad to see this new message, although I haven't received it myself as yet. I wish they had sent this version to me before the reservation had started. Had they done so, I would have gladly cancelled the reservation and held the points aside for their client for another reservation.

 

[grupp]

Do you think they are refunding their $500 fee to the renter?

 

[chapjim]

I made a 100% refund to VC -- $3,495. I did the refund on PayPal, which is how they sent the funds. The next day, I received an email requesting the refund by check. Too late!

I also told them NOT to respond to any of my listings and if they did, don't expect a response from me. I am far more comfortable dealing directly with renters.

 

[dioxide45]

Refunds may be issued by one of following methods:

PayPal Personal Transaction (Friends and Family): accounting@vacationcandy.com

I certainly would not send any money through Paypal Friends and Family. In fact, them even asking you to do this is likely a violation of Paypal T&C since they are clearly running a business. It offers zero protection. Is it also possible this is a scam email hoping you will send money to a fraudster? You can send it as a business transaction and pay the fee yourself. At least that way you have buyer protection.

 

[ocdb8r]

I certainly would not send any money through Paypal Friends and Family. In fact, them even asking you to do this is likely a violation of Paypal T&C since they are clearly running a business. It offers zero protection. Is it also possible this is a scam email hoping you will send money to a fraudster? You can send it as a business transaction and pay the fee yourself. At least that way you have buyer protection.

Agreed! I found the request totally outlandish...but the whole email posted above was outlandish to begin with, so I didn't give it much extra thought. I'd be curious to see how this plays out for others.

I have a rental I did via a real estate agency who has been very pleasant to deal with during the crisis. However, even then it hasn't been all rosy as they're dealing with a slightly difficult renter on the other side. What I appreciate most is that they're trying to take a balanced approach of offering some sort of flexibility while also being reasonable in what they expect I can do. I'd be irate if they took the approach in the first email from VC!

 

[wtrjock]

This whole thread is making me make some changes to my rental contract wording. These are very trying times, but there is also a lot of opportunity here for the owners to be taken advantage of. When we rent out our units, we lose the use capability. The rental charges need to at least compensate the MF and any penalty for restricting the options if less than 60 days. I would be willing to return any profits, but a little reluctant to be stuck with options I can't use due to someone else's unfortunate circumstance. The renters need to be diligent, as well, and protect themselves with travel insurance.

So far I have only rented to TUG members and friends and family so that the terms are understood and the rental know what quality they are receiving. Thank you for all this great info about 3rd party renting companies!

I also agree with the PayPal business transaction. The last rental I did with PayPal cost me $75 fee and the piece of mind was worth it. Nice time I will bury the PP fee in the rental offer.

 

[stevio99]

Don;t give them anything. It's one thing to rent at/near MF rates, as to pay your MF. It another thing to make it a business. Most of us got into timeshares to find quality lodging at more reasonable rates. Any other reason, and I don't have much sympathy for you.

 

[Quilter]

​

From above:​

​

"Given the catastrophic nature of this event for many guests involved, we are passing these requests along to our owners. While guests do understand our reservations are non-cancellable given our Terms & Conditions, the magnitude of this globally evolving event does warrant asking our owners what their options are at this time and communicating what our guests are asking of us. "​

I also have rentals during these times of self-quarantine and I want to be fair. Fair cuts both ways.

When a renter commits to a contract for my at a high demand property during a high demand week I then remove that reservation from the inventory of available rentals. Forget pandemic. The "magnitude" of the renter's liability of completing said reservation increases 100% for each person in the travel party. A family of 4 = 400% chance someone will have a health crisis preventing the party from travel.

The first two renters who came to me regarding their trip both said they had children with illnesses that compromised their immune system. These are illnesses the children have had since birth. Both have multiple children. Maybe 4. Both rented premium weeks on Hilton Head at very competitive prices. Generally I'm not the highest or lowest price on Redweek. There was definitely room for them to afford trip insurance and still be within competitive rates. At the time of signing the contract neither told me they had anyone in their party with a preexisting health condition that could cause them to have to cancel the stay. Notwithstanding preexisting health condition, every person in the travel party has the potential of a last minute accident or illness.

Just to be clear, these were not my VacationCandy rentals. The renter, either through VacationCandy or not, has to assume some responsibility for any compromising between owner and renter. My comments here are based on if the resort is still open. If resorts close I'll cross that bridge at that time.

Both made contracts well into the news of the virus. The response from these two have been polar opposites. The first one (Contract sent 3/2. Interestingly she never signed it but sent full payment and asked for water view) just asked for an outright refund. I offered her 2 years to find a replacement vacation. That wasn't enough and the emails kept coming. In the end we agreed to a refund minus $300 fee. I was glad to be done with her.

The other renter (contract completed 3/8) has been a delight. He says we're not going to have an issue. I've also offered him 2 years to find a replacement and have proactively been looking for possibilities. I'm eager to help him find a sweet deal. We're all going to need a vacation after the virus settles.

 

[Pipercub925]

I still have only received the first letter from VC, not the second letter I've seen here on TUG. I have emailed VC 3 times now, and have left a lengthy phone message, all saying I would like to work with the owner on rescheduling their reservation. I have not cancelled the reservation, and do not plan to do so, until I hear from them, telling me to cancel the reservation. I'm sure they are very busy, but this is getting a little ridiculous, that they will not respond.

 

[grupp]

I received a second more kindly worded email requesting a full refund. I told them no.

 

[hurnik]

Between this and the Redweek thread, I find it very interesting that these companies are essentially going back on their contract wording. Try that with your Travel/Trip insurance. They stick to the letter of the contract (four corners and all that), but seems some companies seek to just ignore things.

Yes, it sucks. For everyone. I bought travel insurance for a $12k trip to the maldives WAY before this whole thing happened (last June). Guess what? I'm SOL. Berkshire Hathaway made it clear what was covered and what wasn't (we can't get CFAR in New York until like last week due to a Dept. of Tax & Finance opinion stating "any reason" wasn't insurance).

I think most people would be reasonable if something can be done (ie, you can reschedule to next year, etc.)
I have two clients/repeat renters that I've personally told (they have November travel upcoming) to get CFAR insurance, but that I would work with them to re-schedule the resort (I cant' do anything about their plane tickets), but that there may be additional fees, if necessary.

Otherwise I'm not renting anything until late next year just to avoid any hassles.

 

[VacationForever]

I got lucky. Last year was the first time I listed 2 of my weeks for rental for March of this year. I rented using Redweek but since I wanted full control of the process, I used my own rental agreement and handled non-refundable payment. The 2 consecutive weeks were rented to the same renter. She showed up on Sunday, the start of the stay, only to be told that the tournament was shut down the following day, the reason why she booked her trip. I didn't hear from her even though I wanted to email her. The timeshare sent me her folio at checkout, she stayed 10 of 14 days, and I forwarded to her and started a conversation. She had a good time and if not for the fact that Canada wanted all residents to come home she would have stayed the entire 14 days. This February, she has also paid for my 2021 weeks in full for next March. I am relieved that I did not use VacationCandy as I did also list the weeks with them.

 

[Pipercub925]

This was the first time I used Vacation Candy, and they approached me, I did not contact them. Reading the first letter sent out, and then reading the second letter someone posted on this site, which I never received, I would question if any funds returned to them would even go back to the renter? In their terms and conditions, it states that their reservations are non-cancellable. I have been calling and emailing all week, with no response. I seriously wonder if they have just packed up and closed the doors instead of dealing with their customers. Has anyone received any emails or phone calls from them in the last day or two? I am really not concerned in the least about VC, but I would like to work something out with their renter just so it is not a total loss for them, and I really can't imagine anyone is actually still going to Maui to sit in their room for a 14 day quarantine.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am not refunding the week I rented to someone for 5/30 in Myrtle Beach. I will get another week for them, but I will not refund. So they can ask for a refund, and I can say absolutely not. I rented through one of these brokers. I had them agree to my terms and conditions, which is no refunds before 60 days. So they better let me know right away, or they are stuck with it or must accept whatever I can get.

 

[grupp]

The way I look at it, both VacationCandy and Redweek are expecting the owners to bail them out financially and save their reputation. However, I don’t feel it is my or other owners responsibility to do either for them. They created their own business models and suspect they have done very well during the last few years. I know both have made quite a bit from me and I don’t recall them cutting me any deals when times were good.

Additionally, they created the contracts we signed and are now trying to set aside by claiming they were caught off guard. Which again, is not the fault of the owners that they failed to plan for catastrophic episodes.

Like many others, I had my own trips planned that are not going to happen and will be out some money. I chose not to buy travel insurance and will have to take the loss, which I am ok with since it was my choice.

I hope they survive this pandemic and if they do I will continue to do business with them. If not, I am sure there will be others to take their place. I am going out of my way to help small local business get through this period and come out on the other side, but don’t feel the need to bail out either of these two companies.

 

[Pipercub925]

After spending the afternoon online researching, I was able to get a phone number for the person who rented my timeshare from Vacation Candy. This is after I have called VC a couple times, leaving voicemails, and have sent them 5 emails asking them to contact me, because I would like to offer their renter a chance to reschedule. The renter was very happy I contacted him. He said he has been trying to contact Vacation Candy all week, but no one is returning his calls, and just assumed he lost both his money and his reservation. I find it really sad these companies are doing this to the people that rented from them! Maybe they are just way behind, and are making an effort to contact everyone, but I really have my doubts. I'm guessing they will pop up in a couple months under another name! If so, owners and renters beware! I would never deal with them again.

 

[grgs]

Has anyone received any emails or phone calls from them in the last day or two?

I received this email from them yesterday:

We wanted to apologize, first and foremost, for the delay in responses. This pandemic has impacted some 700+ reservations with our small team. While we are doing the best we can with our small team to follow up in a timely manner, there will be a delay in response times.

This global pandemic has caught everyone off guard within and beyond our industry. The email requesting a refund was drafted in a similar urgency to the influx of combative communications from our guests. While we had no intentions of doing so, the wording in this email has caused a negative experience, and does not foster the owner experience we look to create as we value the business relationship we have with each of our owners.

Many of our guests book accommodations close to check-in, as we’re sure you've probably experienced of you have experienced first hand. Given the day-to-day updates on this virus, and the common unpunctual nature in our guests, many of you were sent this email too late for any meaningful recourse to be taken.

Due to this evolving crisis and many obstacles (e.g. recent travel bans, state lockdowns, border closings, DOJ orders, physician recommendations, et cetera) our guests have advised they won't be able to travel. It is also important to note that many resorts have been rendered virtually closed outside of the units themselves due to the virus, and the panic that we are all experiencing means that many are not traveling.

At this time, we are asking owners to let us know whichever options, if any, they are able to provide for guests, based on any leniency by the resort. We understand that this is hard not just on our guests but the owners we work with as well. Many guests have not purchased insurance and their only recourse is any flexibility resorts or owners are able to provide.

Please let us know at your earliest convenience if there are any options you are able to offer. We very much appreciate any flexibility you are able to provide. Stay safe and healthy!

Thanks in Advance,

VacationCandy

I let them know that if they had contacted me requesting a cancellation in their original email, I could have used the points to make their client a new reservation. However, they did not do so, and I didn't cancel the reservation. As a result, I have nothing to offer their client.