Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[timeos2]

No change

Every week Platinum week that Marriott can convince an owner to voluntarilly convert to points will fall under the NEW POINTS RULES AND GUIDELINES. marriott can't change what the owners deed originally entitled them to, but once they sign papers giving up those rights to become a points member the original rights are gone. Owners can do whatever they want with their weeks, rent them, use them, deposit them with II, or join marriott's points program and deposit their week there, Non points members will not have access to those weeks any more than non II members would have access to weeks deposited with II. Within the points program Mariott will decide if certain memebrs can buy fixed weeks for a price, how many can be purchased, how much they cost, and mariott will decide how many points each week is assigned and how many points each week costs to stay there. marriott will set the rules and all who convert to points will have to follow the rules, and they will sign a contract obligating them to do so. Marriott has a fleet of lawyers and they will do it legally. morally is another question, but it will be done legally.

But understand that they cannot TAKE a fixed week out of the pool for a points owner(s) anymore than they could for a deeded owner. The resort documents won't allow it. They can say that XX% of prime week 26 has been assigned to the points pool based on the percentage number of owners entitled to reserve that use period that chose, voluntarily, to join points. Those same owners could have claimed that time as weeks owners prior to the change. No one loses a claim based on that that and no one moves ahead of anyone else based on that. If one week is pulled out because an owner opts for points that same week could have been claimed by that owner under the old rules.

Now once the week is assigned to points all bets are off. The rules for the new points system can be set up anyway Marriott wants & if you join you agree to that. If they choose to state that the limited number of those prime week 26's that are in points carry a premium price tag either in dollars or points they can do so as you agree to the rules as they disclose them.

Personally any points system that excluded the prime weeks or charged extra for them would be crossed off my list - the beauty of a points system is the ability to get anything if you amass the proper points - but if they implement that way & properly disclose it then thats the way it will be. But the current owners lost nothing they had and gained nothing. They can still fight to get one of the limited units each year as they always have. Percentage wise the odds are still the same. What they bought they still have. Marriott can't change it. Owners can change it if they choose.

 

[SueDonJ]

Every week Platinum week that Marriott can convince an owner to voluntarilly convert to points will fall under the NEW POINTS RULES AND GUIDELINES. marriott can't change what the owners deed originally entitled them to, but once they sign papers giving up those rights to become a points member the original rights are gone. Owners can do whatever they want with their weeks, rent them, use them, deposit them with II, or join marriott's points program and deposit their week there, Non points members will not have access to those weeks any more than non II members would have access to weeks deposited with II. Within the points program Mariott will decide if certain memebrs can buy fixed weeks for a price, how many can be purchased, how much they cost, and mariott will decide how many points each week is assigned and how many points each week costs to stay there. marriott will set the rules and all who convert to points will have to follow the rules, and they will sign a contract obligating them to do so. Marriott has a fleet of lawyers and they will do it legally. morally is another question, but it will be done legally.

This is not a far out conspiracy theory. Timeshare developers at all sorts of resorts are converting deeded owners to points and often actually taking ownership of the deeded week. Not only can it happen, it is happening at many resorts run by various developers, and if the rumors are true it will happen very soon at Marriott.

I think what John is questioning (apologies, John, if you didn't mean this) and what I certainly question is what you said before, about folks being able to convert their floating deeded weeks to fixed weeks based on the week # that's referenced in the deed. For one thing, buyers are not given a choice of unit/week # during the purchase process. (I remember only one TUG poster who said that s/he specifically asked for a certain week # and it was given, along with all sorts of protests that it was completely unnecessary because Marriott couldn't unilaterally change floating weeks to fixed.)

More importantly, though, Marriott's contract language is quite clear in that the Unit and Week # referenced in the deed are there for accounting purposes only (to prevent the developer from overselling a certain unit/week) and have absolutely nothing to do - beyond season and #BR/view - with the specific unit or week that can be reserved for use. Marriott would be in violation of a number of contract provisions in addition to the stipulated Reservation Procedures if they were to offer a fixed week usage based on the unit/week # contained in the deeds already issued under their floating week system. I can't think of anything that would be more unfair to deeded floating weeks owners than to force them to accept the particular unit/week referenced in their deeds, or to block them from certain floating weeks by making specific high-demand units and/or weeks within a season more valuable than any others.

Now could they offer fixed weeks for unsold inventory or weeks picked up through internal buy-backs or ROFR on the external resale market? Absolutely, if the contract language for a specific resort gives them the right to offer fixed weeks. But not all resort docs contain that language. As well, at the resorts where both fixed and floating weeks are available and fixed weeks are not designated and sold as "Plus" weeks, a certain number of every floating interval must be available to floating owners.

I would interpret the contract language to mean that for as long as there are floating intervals circulating among the ownership pool, Marriott cannot sell every high-demand interval (such as a July 4th holiday) as a fixed week. And I'd hire Davidvel to protect against such a thing.

 

[timeos2]

good evening...

Let me make sure I get this right. Hypothetically, I purchase a "primo" platinum MVCI week (ski week, Hawaii, summer in HHI etc) I am told not only am I guaranteed occupancy in season, but it has great trading power and other benefits. Now I am asked to give it back for points so I can spend 2 weeks in a "doggy" unit. If I want to retain "home resort" priority or gain an advantage "Resort type priority" in trading, I will have to fork up MORE "coin" in addition to the 40K I may have already paid for the unit!!!!

Doug tells me that all I am entitled to is occupancy "in season" and everything else is gravy. Now I am being asked to pay more for a second serving of "gravy"

yikes...

Perry may be right!!!

Thats not the way every other decent points based system I've ever looked at or owned worked. If it did it would seem to hold little value to owners to buy in and, after all, isn't getting buy in what they would want? I'll bet it is set up to create opportunities not kill off what you already have. If the latter than why would anyone think owners would pay to join?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nothing That The Timeshare Companies Sell At Full Freight Is Worth The Money.

I will have to fork up MORE "coin" in addition to the 40K I may have already paid for the unit!

I would have to be out of my helmet to pay $40,000 for a timeshare, any timeshare anywhere, Marriott or Hyatt or exotic high-end or anything.

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money, period.

That goes for Marriott just the same as for all the other timeshare companies out there.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[tombo]

Now once the week is assigned to points all bets are off. The rules for the new points system can be set up anyway Marriott wants & if you join you agree to that. If they choose to state that the limited number of those prime week 26's that are in points carry a premium price tag either in dollars or points they can do so as you agree to the rules as they disclose them.
.

This is exactly what I was saying. Once the owner takes his week and voluntarilly assigns it to points, Marriott can do whatever they want with his week. The discussion came from marriott's survey discussing possible options for their points program from a few years ago.

The statement below is copied from the marriott survey:

"Home Resort Guarantee - As part of the Vacation Points Exchange Program an option may be offered to retain the home resort priority you currently have with your week. A new option may be offered in addition to, or in place of your home resort priority that would guarantee a fixed week at the resort where you currently own for a period of 3 years. This option would be limited to a specific percentage of villas for each week of the year."

Marriott will sell a certain percentage of villas each week for the year guaranteeing a points owner a guaranteed fixed week for 3 years for a set price! After reading this, how else could you interpret this option?

 

[David10225]

I've been an avid reader of this thread...sometimes multiple times a day...it's better then anything on TV right now!

Here is my thinking on the matter. I own a floating platinum week at Barony Beach. If Marriott were to offer to buy any platinum week (and what it offers is really not pertinent to my thinking), it would become the legal owner with multiple weeks of ownership. For sake of discussion, Marriott now owns 50% of the platinum weeks. (it must have been one sweet deal). As a multiple week owner, Marriott has the right to reserve a week 13 months ahead until me who can only reserve 12 months ahead. Marriott would have to complete with all of the other multi week owners, but in reality..are there really that many.... And to top it off, what if Marriott decided to reward 3 or more week owners (including itself) with a 14 month reservation period. After all, from what I understand sometime in the past it went from 12 to 13...why not do it again? It certainly seems like they would have an advantage over little old 1 week owner me...

Then with all of its newly owned multiple week ownerships...Marriott could sell me points in a club that allowed me to reserve one of these weeks or any other week in the system. All for the price that covers their acquisition costs + a tidy profit. Of course the point owner would agree to pay the special maintenance fee per point....

 

[Fredm]

2 comments...

for a resort like NCV, if 30% of Platinum deeds converted, then should take 30% if each available week in that season to the points system and leave the rest for weeks. They can't just decide they take July and August for points and leave Sep-Dec for weeks - or can they?

This is going to be interesting.

California timeshare law anticipated the specific question you pose.
Floating use (deeded) timeshare reservation rights provide a minimum 60 day priority for owners of a resort before 'multi-site' owners can access the inventory.

For your reading pleasure,The California Timeshare Manual can be accessed here.

The verbiage begins on page 30, under
Mandatory Reservation Systems – “Specific Time-Share Interest” Multi-Site Time-Share Plans
This type of time-share plan is affiliated by means of a contract or membership agreement through a mandatory reservation system with other time-share projects or resorts and time-share purchasers of interests in the specific component site receive, on a priority basis, the use or occupancy of accommodations at that site and it is subject to all the regulatory requirements of a single site time-share plan...............

The document is rather long. It goes on to say that conversions may be made. However, the intervals converted must be specific. So, a converted deeded interest can be either/or the entire subdivision (resort), building, unit, or week. BUT, it cannot be arbitrary. For example if an owner is deeded week 30, then week 30 can be converted. That week 30 cannot be used to compete with reservation rights of the deeded week owners during the 60 day priority reservation period, once made part of a 'multi-site" program.
At least that is how I understand it.

Every State has its own regulations. Most address the issue of inventory segregation for different owner classes. I find it hard to imagine Marriott being able to simply take the inventory it wants just because they have the 'points" needed to do so.

The law (almost everywhere) is on the side of the existing deeded timeshare interest and its reservation rights.

For this new system to work well Marriott will need massive conversions, and quickly. They won't get them at $3750, or anything remotely close to it.

 

[SueDonJ]

This is exactly what I was saying. Once the owner takes his week and voluntarilly assigns it to points, Marriott can do whatever they want with his week. The discussion came from marriott's survey discussing possible options for their points program from a few years ago.

The statement below is copied from the marriott survey:

"Home Resort Guarantee - As part of the Vacation Points Exchange Program an option may be offered to retain the home resort priority you currently have with your week. A new option may be offered in addition to, or in place of your home resort priority that would guarantee a fixed week at the resort where you currently own for a period of 3 years. This option would be limited to a specific percentage of villas for each week of the year."

Marriott will sell a certain percentage of villas each week for the year guaranteeing a points owner a guaranteed fixed week for 3 years for a set price! After reading this, how else could you interpret this option?

But that isn't the same as what you said before, that every owner could convert their floating week to the fixed week referenced in their deed, which would effectively block out floating week owners from a certain usage stipulated in their contracts. Sure, a combination of fixed/floating weeks is possible at some resorts, but it would have to be limited to a certain percentage per week as stated in the survey and supported by the contracts, and every owner of a floating season would have to be offered the opportunity for any fixed week within that season (probably on a first-come-first-served basis.) I would guess that the unit/week # referenced in the deeds that have already been issued for floating week usage will have nothing to do with fixed-week conversions beyond the supporting basis for the percentage of fixed weeks available relative to the total number sold.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

John:

Does any other point system charge a "premium" for special membership giving priority booking???
Just curious as I really have no clue!!!

 

[dougp26364]

This is exactly what I was saying. Once the owner takes his week and voluntarilly assigns it to points, Marriott can do whatever they want with his week. The discussion came from marriott's survey discussing possible options for their points program from a few years ago.

The statement below is copied from the marriott survey:

"Home Resort Guarantee - As part of the Vacation Points Exchange Program an option may be offered to retain the home resort priority you currently have with your week. A new option may be offered in addition to, or in place of your home resort priority that would guarantee a fixed week at the resort where you currently own for a period of 3 years. This option would be limited to a specific percentage of villas for each week of the year."

Marriott will sell a certain percentage of villas each week for the year guaranteeing a points owner a guaranteed fixed week for 3 years for a set price! After reading this, how else could you interpret this option?

I see what you're saying. They'll offer members in the points based system the option to BUY specific weeks ahead of all other points based members.

Remember, this was only an option or consideration they were tossing out there to see what interest owners would have in the proposal. It will be interesting to see if the responce they recieved was strong enough that Marriott will do this. If it is part of the program, then they'll hamstring their own internal exchange program by limiting what the majority could/can get and, in turn they'll lose customers who might have joined.

I know that if they put this option in I'll have to look at the weeks that would be included. Chances are it won't affect me since we tend to stay away from those high priority weeks as we hate crowds. On the other hand, it's not unusual for us to be in Vegas over race week and, it that's one of their "prime" weeks, then I'm afraid we'd have to pass on their new system.

Personally I don't believe Marriott will go forward with that idea. They tossed it out there to see how much interest owners would have in it if offered. Do you really think there was a lot of interest in paying $3,750 to guarentee access to a prime week for three years? IMHO that option likely fell flat when they tallied the survey results.

 

[dougp26364]

good evening...

John:

Does any other point system charge a "premium" for special membership giving priority booking???
Just curious as I really have no clue!!!

I'm not John but I've never heard of it. I suspect I haven't heard of it for good reason. It's a bad idea.

 

[scrapngen]

Good post all around, gen, but the "Pointer/setter weeks" made me :rofl:

Glad to brighten your day! By the way, I appreciate your posts as well

 

[SueDonJ]

I've been an avid reader of this thread...sometimes multiple times a day...it's better then anything on TV right now!

Here is my thinking on the matter. I own a floating platinum week at Barony Beach. If Marriott were to offer to buy any platinum week (and what it offers is really not pertinent to my thinking), it would become the legal owner with multiple weeks of ownership. For sake of discussion, Marriott now owns 50% of the platinum weeks. (it must have been one sweet deal). As a multiple week owner, Marriott has the right to reserve a week 13 months ahead until me who can only reserve 12 months ahead. Marriott would have to complete with all of the other multi week owners, but in reality..are there really that many.... And to top it off, what if Marriott decided to reward 3 or more week owners (including itself) with a 14 month reservation period. After all, from what I understand sometime in the past it went from 12 to 13...why not do it again? It certainly seems like they would have an advantage over little old 1 week owner me...

Then with all of its newly owned multiple week ownerships...Marriott could sell me points in a club that allowed me to reserve one of these weeks or any other week in the system. All for the price that covers their acquisition costs + a tidy profit. Of course the point owner would agree to pay the special maintenance fee per point....

Welcome to the party! The more the merrier, and it's helpful to get all sorts of different thoughts on what's happening.

About what's bolded above - the Barony docs do state, "The Developer may make reservation requests for a Time Sharing Interest which it owns on the same basis as all other Owners." But SurfWatch's docs specifically exclude Marriott from the 13-mo rule: "Owners, excluding Declarant, who own more than one ..."

I wonder if Marriott adopted a uniform reservation procedure for itself the same way that it implements one for owners system-wide across all resorts (despite different language in the different resort docs) and if so, do they utilize the 13-mo rule for themselves or not?

 

[timeos2]

They may give it away but not charge

good evening...

John:

Does any other point system charge a "premium" for special membership giving priority booking???
Just curious as I really have no clue!!!

While I cannot say none do there are none I've dealt with as an owner or potential buyer that charge for that as a guaranteed product. Some do have a "perk", usually tied to how many total points you own with them, that may offer a member a month or two extra at non-home resorts. Often called "Elite" or "VIP", but they do not charge for that (if they did it would have to be a written & thus guaranteed process/product and they don't want / can't do that). And in no case does the additional time offered for reservations exceed - or in most cases even equal - what an owner at the resort is entitled to. The local resort documents trump any type of exchange process.

In other words they do not offer to sell at any price additional or guaranteed booking time to members. Not that I've ever come across.

 

[DanCali]

If 10,000 platinum week owners applied for 4th of july every year and there were a total of 1000 units at the resort, 10% of those who applied would get the prime week. now with marriott pitching the advantage of having a fixed prime week each year to all deeded owners with week 26 or 27 (which the salesforce knows before you walk in), then they can get a large part of the owners who have week 26 and week 27 to pay the $3750 and lock in their week. So if 50% of the week 26 and 27 owners pay the $3750 to convert to fixed weeks, that will be 9500 platinum week owners fighting over the remaining 500 units that are now available to reserve changing the odds from 10% to 5%. if marriott cheats and places weeks inventory in point pool, then the odds could get worse. If Marriott offers discounts to people with prime weeks or other incentives to get more prime week owners to convert to points and/or fixed weeks, the odds could get really bad of getting a good week. The amount of units/weeks is fixed and not changing unless they build new resorts, so every time they remove units from your pool your odds of getting what you want each year get slimmer and slimmer.

I don't think it would work that way with Marriott as the week on the deed is irrelevant. At NCV I own a Platinum week that gives me access to any Platinum week. I do not have access to PP weeks 26 and 52 or to Gold weeks.

My concern was if 30% of Platinum deeds converted to points, then Marriott should take 30% if each available week in that season to the points system and leave the rest of the inventory for weeks. If points owners get more than 30% of July and August reservations (or of any week in that season for that matter) that seems wrong. Similarly, if no Platinum Plus week 26 convert to points, points owners will not have access to those weeks.

 

[DanCali]

The document is rather long. It goes on to say that conversions may be made. However, the intervals converted must be specific. So, a converted deeded interest can be either/or the entire subdivision (resort), building, unit, or week. BUT, it cannot be arbitrary. For example if an owner is deeded week 30, then week 30 can be converted. That week 30 cannot be used to compete with reservation rights of the deeded week owners during the 60 day priority reservation period, once made part of a 'multi-site" program.
At least that is how I understand it.

Every State has its own regulations. Most address the issue of inventory segregation for different owner classes. I find it hard to imagine Marriott being able to simply take the inventory it wants just because they have the 'points" needed to do so.

The law (almost everywhere) is on the side of the existing deeded timeshare interest and its reservation rights.

For this new system to work well Marriott will need massive conversions, and quickly. They won't get them at $3750, or anything remotely close to it.

Fred - thanks for this info. I'll need to read it more carefully when I get a chance. I'm trying to follow the logic here - suppose for simplicity that only 1 rogue NCV owner converts to points and he is deeded week 30. So (i) points owners will have access to only 7 days at NCV (ii) the deeded week matters - points owners can only book week 30 and (iii) they can only book it at 10 months out?

Somewhere along the way I must have misunderstood something... because you could get a situation where weeks owners might book week 30 completely at 10-12 months out, so what do points owners get then?

 

[PerryM]

Dumber is better...

Glad to see things just cook along without me stirring the pot...

I'll leave you with this:

[Political comments deleted - DeniseM Moderator]

Likewise, Marriott is looking for dumb owners who don't ask questions to convert - they should have a field day.

Smart timeshare folks who haunt this website will each look at what's offered and make an informed decision and you won't hear any criticism from me on your final decision either way - but that's 1% of the Marriott owners.

It's the other 99% that just scare the hell out of me...

 

[dougp26364]

This is going to be interesting.

California timeshare law anticipated the specific question you pose.
Floating use (deeded) timeshare reservation rights provide a minimum 60 day priority for owners of a resort before 'multi-site' owners can access the inventory.

For your reading pleasure,The California Timeshare Manual can be accessed here.

The verbiage begins on page 30, under
Mandatory Reservation Systems – “Specific Time-Share Interest” Multi-Site Time-Share Plans
This type of time-share plan is affiliated by means of a contract or membership agreement through a mandatory reservation system with other time-share projects or resorts and time-share purchasers of interests in the specific component site receive, on a priority basis, the use or occupancy of accommodations at that site and it is subject to all the regulatory requirements of a single site time-share plan...............

The document is rather long. It goes on to say that conversions may be made. However, the intervals converted must be specific. So, a converted deeded interest can be either/or the entire subdivision (resort), building, unit, or week. BUT, it cannot be arbitrary. For example if an owner is deeded week 30, then week 30 can be converted. That week 30 cannot be used to compete with reservation rights of the deeded week owners during the 60 day priority reservation period, once made part of a 'multi-site" program.
At least that is how I understand it.

Every State has its own regulations. Most address the issue of inventory segregation for different owner classes. I find it hard to imagine Marriott being able to simply take the inventory it wants just because they have the 'points" needed to do so.

The law (almost everywhere) is on the side of the existing deeded timeshare interest and its reservation rights.

For this new system to work well Marriott will need massive conversions, and quickly. They won't get them at $3750, or anything remotely close to it.

The thing is, I know DRI has trust based ownership in California and operates just fine. Trust owners with DRI don't hold an interest in any one resort but a group of resorts. Those resort do offer a home resort advantage with the idea that members in the trust can book at 13 months rather than 12 months for owners of deeded weeks in the points system. Points owners are tied to a specific resort and have a 2 month home resort booking advantage over all other members of the points based reservation system.

It appears that trust based ownership is considered a "group" under the CA law and there is no real home resort advantage.

 

[Fredm]

The thing is, I know DRI has trust based ownership in California and operates just fine. Trust owners with DRI don't hold an interest in any one resort but a group of resorts. Those resort do offer a home resort advantage with the idea that members in the trust can book at 13 months rather than 12 months for owners of deeded weeks in the points system. Points owners are tied to a specific resort and have a 2 month home resort booking advantage over all other members of the points based reservation system.

It appears that trust based ownership is considered a "group" under the CA law and there is no real home resort advantage.

Well, that is consistent with the 60 days home resort priority.

 

[Fredm]

Fred - thanks for this info. I'll need to read it more carefully when I get a chance. I'm trying to follow the logic here - suppose for simplicity that only 1 rogue NCV owner converts to points and he is deeded week 30. So (i) points owners will have access to only 7 days at NCV (ii) the deeded week matters - points owners can only book week 30 and (iii) they can only book it at 10 months out?

Somewhere along the way I must have misunderstood something... because you could get a situation where weeks owners might book week 30 completely at 10-12 months out, so what do points owners get then?

Home resort owners must have at least a 60 day booking advantage over anyone else.
The week 30 example was mine. Whatever week, Marriott cannot use it in a floating system to extract inventory before the 60 day reservation preference period has passed.
They could use it to reserve week 30 at 12 months, if it was converted. Otherwise, no dice. Perhaps a poor example of what I was trying to say.
I was trying to explain that Marriott could not just take the prime weeks whenever they wanted. In this situation, the home resort owners will always have a 60 day reservation advantage over those in the points system.

 

[RandR]

With our (non-MARRIOTT) points systems in every case the resort management is NOT the operator of the points or weeks system(s). I wouldn't want it any other way as there needs to be checks and balances rather than 100% trust in one company. The temptation can prove to be just too great no matter who it may be.

John this is a great point but it looks like it is exactly what Marriott is going to be doing. Someone earlier in the thread talked about all the inventory that people convert into the points system and who then gets their proxy. If Marriott gets it and "owns" enough units/points, can't they then essentially take over the HOA for the property?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Throwing Out The Timeshare Company As Resort Manager.

If Marriott gets it and "owns" enough units/points, can't they then essentially take over the HOA for the property?

In some states (e.g., Florida), once the timeshare HOA is taken over by an independent, owner-controlled BOD, the timeshare cannot go back under timeshare company control -- i.e., when the owners are in & the timeshare company is out, then that's it. Period. Case closed.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[tombo]

But that isn't the same as what you said before, that every owner could convert their floating week to the fixed week referenced in their deed, which would effectively block out floating week owners from a certain usage stipulated in their contracts. .

I said this regarding what Escapes Resort Systems did at my resort, and referenced it as a thing that Marriott could do too depending on if and how they decide to offer fixed weeks to people who join their points program.

I own a floating 2 bed room Escapes week which floats the prime season any week from 18 until I think week 34 oceanfront at orange Beach. I have a home resort reservation window of 30 days before anyone who owns at another Escapes resort can try to reserve at this resort. No owners of escapes weeks at other resorts ever get a summer week at my resort because they are all reserved before they get the opportunity.

They got the brilliant idea to start selling points to existing owners to make money. As I said earlier they have to have advantages that come with points memberships to get you to pay $5000 more for what you already own. Once an Escapes week is converted to floating points you no longer can trade for that week as a weeks owner, so they threaten that eventually as most owners convert you will have limited inventory to trade for. They also built a new resort up the road and only points owners can stay there (something I am sure Marriott will do if they build new resorts).

Those are 2 points perks that owners don't get, but the main perk is the one I was discussing earlier. If you convert to points and pay more $ you get to reserve the week and unit number on your deed 30 days before any points or weeks owners have the opportunity to do so. Yes, this is available to every weeks owner who converts to points and pays $5000. So yes at this resort most if not all (according to the salesperson) owners of weeks 26 and week 27 converted to points forever locking the rest of us out from ever reserving their weeks. I don't know for sure how many did actually convert, but I do know that I haven't been able to reserve a 4th of July week in the 3 years since they started this program. I was describing a situation that Marriott could follow suit on with their 3 year fixed week option using the example of what they did at my resort, not saying that this is what Marriott would actually do.

 

[bobcat]

The thing is, I know DRI has trust based ownership in California and operates just fine. Trust owners with DRI don't hold an interest in any one resort but a group of resorts. Those resort do offer a home resort advantage with the idea that members in the trust can book at 13 months rather than 12 months for owners of deeded weeks in the points system. Points owners are tied to a specific resort and have a 2 month home resort booking advantage over all other members of the points based reservation system.

It appears that trust based ownership is considered a "group" under the CA law and there is no real home resort advantage.

You forgot to mention that once you were in the UDI, the club dues and M F's went up big time.

 

[Dean]

A car salesperson is a saint compared to the blatant lies some timeshare salespeople spew. How many times in the last few months have we heard here on TUG about (mostly the Ko'Olina) salespeople telling prospective buyers that resale units have a disadvantage booking home resort? How many people who didn't find TUG or were bold enough to ask heard that nonesense and fell for it?

I also don't recall a car salesperson making me sign that everything I heard orally doesn't count or that if I sell the car the A/C will not function (analogy to no hotel points when you sell it - and implying indirectly it's worth much less on the resale market). Heck, I even bought a new car once, drove it for 400 miles and sold it on the resale market for a profit over the dealer MSRP... good luck pulling that one off with a retail timeshare.

If all timeshare presentations were recorded and could be entered as evidence in a dispute - I'd be on your side on this one. Unfortunately, developer timeshares sales are still often based on deceipt of the buyers...

In general I might agree with you on the pecking order of timeshare sales staff but I would put those at Marriott far above that level but not quite to the level of those at DVC who I would put at the top. As I believe you admit, they are good at covering themselves. Therefore to go against those legal protections, one is going to need proof in a dispute and my word against theirs isn't going to cut it.

Absolutely correct!

You know what's going to be a kick in the head- all those Marriott owners too stupid to get a lawyer to review their original sales documents are going to do the same damn thing all over again as they sign away their weeks into the new system.

So how do you feel sorry for 95% of the folks being that stupid?

I'm not trying to be holier than thou since I'm in that 95% camp but honestly folks what's wrong with us?

Perry, I doubt most of us have had a lawyer review such info for timeshares and frankly, I doubt most lawyers would know enough about timeshares to render a helpful opinion. I think most of us could do MUCH better than a lawyer overall in interpreting the info. But one needs to actually read the info, it's hard to complaint about things later that were clearly listed there if you don't.

good evening...

Let me make sure I get this right. Hypothetically, I purchase a "primo" platinum MVCI week (ski week, Hawaii, summer in HHI etc) I am told not only am I guaranteed occupancy in season, but it has great trading power and other benefits. Now I am asked to give it back for points so I can spend 2 weeks in a "doggy" unit. If I want to retain "home resort" priority or gain an advantage "Resort type priority" in trading, I will have to fork up MORE "coin" in addition to the 40K I may have already paid for the unit!!!!

Doug tells me that all I am entitled to is occupancy "in season" and everything else is gravy. Now I am being asked to pay more for a second serving of "gravy"

yikes...

Perry may be right!!!

Perry's predictions are even worse than that IMO. We don't know the specifics of any new system and don't know if these issues would be as you suggest. They may indeed be but the worst case scenario is you don't convert. I realize they have ways to pressure you that might "make you an offer you can't refuse" but no one can take away your right to reserve the week tied to your deed as a min and realistically, an even attempt to reserve the week you want within your system. IF they go with a trust based system with NO home resort priority though, your post is likely somewhat accurate. Personally I don't think they can take that approach and get enough high demand weeks to participate but we will see.

good evening...

John:

Does any other point system charge a "premium" for special membership giving priority booking???
Just curious as I really have no clue!!!

Bluegreen and Wyndham do in a sense. Both have a VIP membership system that currently requires a "qualified" purchase from the company. BG has been evolving over the years but have just further stipulated that any new purchases to qualify for VIP have to occur at a given price level per point. This is needed for BG because they have their own internal resale company rather than just selling them again retail only. Others can speak far better than I about Wyndhams setup. I can't think of any other VIP situations off hand but there likely are others. With BG they have 5 levels Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze and nothing. If you qualify you get an increasing level of benefits that include going on a wait list for reservations 1 month earlier per level. At Platinum you get 3 free off season weeks you can exchange, free cancelations till 10 days out, wait list at 15 months out (reservations occur at 11 months) and free Travelers plus which gives you access to RCI hot weeks and the connection with Shell's system among other things. They essentially force you to buy from the developer to get these benefits and going forward, any non qualified points you get, may not be able to be converted over even with a retail purchase. Marriott also charged to go to EY reward points at several resorts, Perry himself paid such a fee for like 5 resorts then later sold them thus sacrificing that option.