Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[PerryM]

At one time Perry trumpeted the worst Wastegate - Planet Hollywood Tower of Terror - as THE best timeshare anywhere & an incredible value (actually talked of it like an investment). Needless to say that didn't work out so well as 90%+ of what was claimed turned out to be fiction and the "value" - especially for rental - at or below zero.

So forgive him if he feels a bit burned by the big boys and promises / claims that turned out to be far from reality. In some ways it may be a backlash that he now finds the Marriott points system a slap at owners. It really is a blip in the landscape compared to tens of thousands "invested" in a losing proposition. The whole timeshare picture has changed from the high flying days and some took it a lot harder than others. His current mantra of "don't buy any timeshare" is a huge change but far safer than the past proclamations had been. The days of touting Destination Clubs and condo hotels are long gone too. They all had their day here and people may have been seriously burned if they bought in.

This is a great place to share ideas and suggestions but remember what you pay and that the real money is gone if you decide to buy into the latest "best thing". Hard lessons learned when things change.

I understand, if you can't debate the topic the only thing left is to bash me.

Debate the topic - get over what I did to you guys 5 years ago now....

Again, I can always tell when you guys run out of ideas - its got to be Westgate to the rescue - that's the best you can do?

The topic of this thread is "Marriott may devalue timeshares in June" - run out of ideas?

 

[pwrshift]

What are the Vegas odds on whether 'anything' will or will not be announced on that fateful day? I'm in the 'will not' camp.

Brian

 

[dougp26364]

I understand, if you can't debate the topic the only thing left is to bash me.

Debate the topic - get over what I did to you guys 5 years ago now....

Again, I can always tell when you guys run out of ideas - its got to be Westgate to the rescue - that's the best you can do?

The topic of this thread is "Marriott may devalue timeshares in June" - run out of ideas?

Not that Westgate has anything to do with what's going on now but, your trumpeting PHT as the greatest timeshare on Earth and that buying from the developer was a good/great investment tends to cast a shadow over your reliability as a source for anything but exagerated rumor not based on facts.

As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What I fear is that you were fooled so badly by Westgate that you've lost some of your objectivity. No doubt any new program Marriott rolls out will favor Marriott in there sales efforts in many ways but, in order for it to actually work, it must have some value to Marriott's owners. Unlike Westgate Marriott has a track record of success built on a solid foundation vs lying to their owners. At this point, I feel that Marriott deserves the benefit of the doubt until we actually can see what any new program might look like. You, on the other hand, have been nothing but doom and gloom. Hardly what you were 5 years ago. Before you were taken advantage of by a salesmen slick enough to use your over confidence against you.

 

[dougp26364]

What are the Vegas odds on whether 'anything' will or will not be announced on that fateful day? I'm in the 'will not' camp.

Brian

I'd say 50/50 by the end of June, 70/30 by end of August and 100% before the end of the year. There's to much evidence for me to be in the 0% camp.

 

[PerryM]

Not that Westgate has anything to do with what's going on now but, your trumpeting PHT as the greatest timeshare on Earth and that buying from the developer was a good/great investment tends to cast a shadow over your reliability as a source for anything but exagerated rumor not based on facts.

As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What I fear is that you were fooled so badly by Westgate that you've lost some of your objectivity. No doubt any new program Marriott rolls out will favor Marriott in there sales efforts in many ways but, in order for it to actually work, it must have some value to Marriott's owners. Unlike Westgate Marriott has a track record of success built on a solid foundation vs lying to their owners. At this point, I feel that Marriott deserves the benefit of the doubt until we actually can see what any new program might look like. You, on the other hand, have been nothing but doom and gloom. Hardly what you were 5 years ago. Before you were taken advantage of by a salesmen slick enough to use your over confidence against you.

Dittos what I said before.

Westgate to the rescue again.

That's 3 who have given up and must mumble about evil Westgate - I know I've scored some point here today!

 

[jlf58]

Your comments are just plain dumb. keep it secret ? This is hardly a secret...
I could give you 10 reasons how I and other people know but it is what it is.....


1. Marriott has never closed down to train, they are this time
2. dah, they are, you just won't see it until it's rolled out
3. Thats wrong.
4. not until it rolls out and again not needed



I am skeptical until there is proof of the facts....

1. There is training....Even if there has been some minor training, people need to know what to say and how to say it to make it an effective sale.
2. Brochures and multimedia items need to be written, designed, printed...
3. They have to get approval from states where they are doing business.
4. There hasn't been any type of release to news or financial disclosures.

All we have now is speculation and rumors....Nothing factual. I know you worked for Marriott and now work for another company selling the same product but who benefits from perpetuating the rumors?

I will not believe it until it is fact and see the proof. There are too many cracks in organizations to keep secrets this large this quiet. And if this was a great product Marriott would be leaking info to build the hype and make people want to buy this new and improved product, not sell weeks before they are gone.

In other words, they would squelch the rumors and make a media blitz to make selling this product easier.

Until there is proof positive that a shooter was in grassy knolls, this man acted alone.

Until there is factual proof that this program exists, it is pure rumor.[/QUOTE]

 

[dougp26364]

Of course Marriott will tell EOY owners to take a hike - that probably means there is no such thing as EOY memberships.

These are but the first Marriott owners to be discarded like one shoe that has lost its mate.

There will be other cold-blooded actions taken against other owners.

Let's not forget that the primary reason for this new scheme is to enrich the fortunes of the Marriott stockholder.

Sure Marriott gets a lot of business from owner referrals but that will probably be offset with a bounty set up for recruiting fellow owners to convert, and that will easily offset the "Misfit" owners who just don't belong in this new wonderful program with good folks like us.

So get a list of friends and family you can turn in for assimilation.

"Resistance is Futile" - I said that...

This would create a fourth class of owners. Deeded weeks owners, trust based owners (assuming this is a trust ownership), EOY deeded week owners and resale week owners. It seems to me that Marriott will try to use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) rather than complicate matters. Boy, open that door a crack you you go through it like a bull in a china shop.

What Fletch said that he heard was Marriott wouldn't be able to use EOY weeks. Now whether that means use them as in sales, use them in the new program or use them at all is up for debate. Until any new program rolls out, it's anyones guess what was meant, sell them/use them or not have them in any new rumored program.

 

[timeos2]

Facts aren't bashing

I understand, if you can't debate the topic the only thing left is to bash me.

Debate the topic - get over what I did to you guys 5 years ago now....

Again, I can always tell when you guys run out of ideas - its got to be Westgate to the rescue - that's the best you can do?

The topic of this thread is "Marriott may devalue timeshares in June" - run out of ideas?

Your attempts to place the history of how we got to here & what has been said in the past as "bashing" is disingenuous. Hey, we all make bad decisions or recommendations - I OWN a Wastegate for heavens sake - you buck up and move on. Trying to say I'm being "bashed" by someone pointing out my stupid purchase into that sinkhole is beyond a stretch. I did it, I deal with it and anyone who wants to point out what a bad choice that was is absolutely correct. No bashing involved or needed. It is part of my history of timeshare and anyone willing to consider what I may offer as opinion now deserves to consider that as part of the package.

As for the present topic we're right on track. Everyone's past experience - good or bad - plays into what they are saying here. It's all fair game. No bashing involved.

 

[PerryM]

This would create a fourth class of owners. Deeded weeks owners, trust based owners (assuming this is a trust ownership), EOY deeded week owners and resale week owners. It seems to me that Marriott will try to use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) rather than complicate matters. Boy, open that door a crack you you go through it like a bull in a china shop.

What Fletch said that he heard was Marriott wouldn't be able to use EOY weeks. Now whether that means use them as in sales, use them in the new program or use them at all is up for debate. Until any new program rolls out, it's anyones guess what was meant, sell them/use them or not have them in any new rumored program.

Marriott's just doing this to enrich their stockholders - I don't find fault with that at all.

Legally they probably will decrease my "worth" of our Gold Summit Watch - I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it.

2 weeks and we will know a lot more - we will see if the salesrep was right:

"And you will love it".

 

[PerryM]

Your attempts to place the history of how we got to here & what has been said in the past as "bashing" is disingenuous. Hey, we all make bad decisions or recommendations - I OWN a Wastegate for heavens sake - you buck up and move on. Trying to say I'm being "bashed" by someone pointing out my stupid purchase into that sinkhole is beyond a stretch. I did it, I deal with it and anyone who wants to point out what a bad choice that was is absolutely correct. No bashing involved or needed. It is part of my history of timeshare and anyone willing to consider what I may offer as opinion now deserves to consider that as part of the package.

As for the present topic we're right on track. Everyone's past experience - good or bad - plays into what they are saying here. It's all fair game. No bashing involved.

John you take all this way too seriously.

I don't know what Westgate did to you but leave me out of your nightmare please - that's all I ask.

P.S.
That goes for anyone else so ticked off at Westgate that it spills over to me - I don't want to be part of your problems - please.

 

[dougp26364]

Dittos what I said before.

Westgate to the rescue again.

That's 3 who have given up and must mumble about evil Westgate - I know I've scored some point here today!

Nope, I'm just considering that point of view as to why your posts are all "evil empire" vs being objective. You bragged so much about your purchase that, when it became obvious, you deleted all your old posts.

You tend to be dramatic but the drama isn't always based on fact. It's important for others to know your history in order to understand why your attitude towards this is that it's all bad for owners. You got toasted by a slick salesman. You're not going to let that happen again. I don't have a problem with it but it's important to understand where you're coming from in oreder to understand you point of view on Marriott's rumored (and it is still just a rumor) program.

 

[AceValenta]

Your comments are just plain dumb. keep it secret ? This is hardly a secret...
I could give you 10 reasons how I and other people know but it is what it is.....


1. Marriott has never closed down to train, they are this time
2. dah, they are, you just won't see it until it's rolled out
3. Thats wrong.
4. not until it rolls out and again not needed

Why are they dumb....SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT THIS IS IN EXISTENCE!! All that has been stated here that a points program is going to be coming out in June, and it is going to based upon the Asian Points Program.

Wow!! The world is end in December 2012! It was supposed to end in 1999. I am still here!

If you have a brochure, show us a link or provide a PDF! If you have a written memo, show it!

THERE ISN'T A PAPER TRAIL....Google it and the only item you see is people talking here on TUG....

There are too many people involved to not have the facts out there. All we hear is that it will be modeled off of the Asian Points Program. We hear it from SALES PEOPLE!!! Hmmmmm....

I will not believe it until I see it, why is that dumb?

Why is it stupid to call a sales department to see if people are there or in training? It is one way to possibly verify the rumors that have been circulating? Or is it that, just maybe it has been a ploy to sell units?

If this program is so great wouldn't Marriott be hyping it up to get as many people to convert when it is released? Not just drop it in people's laps and say buy now!

Compare it to the auto industry, no matter how hard they try to hide the latest redesigns, someone always gets a picture somehow, someway.

There isn't a paper trail with this...I guess being called dumb is a defense when someone hits a nerve of reality! If I am wrong when it rolls out then I am sorry, but until then I am not buying it! Just the facts....Not rumors!

 

[PerryM]

Nope, I'm just considering that point of view as to why your posts are all "evil empire" vs being objective. You bragged so much about your purchase that, when it became obvious, you deleted all your old posts.

You tend to be dramatic but the drama isn't always based on fact. It's important for others to know your history in order to understand why your attitude towards this is that it's all bad for owners. You got toasted by a slick salesman. You're not going to let that happen again. I don't have a problem with it but it's important to understand where you're coming from in oreder to understand you point of view on Marriott's rumored (and it is still just a rumor) program.

Some of you just can't get over what I pulled on you over 5 years ago - get over it guys.

Tug changed the rules and that can't happen again - that should make some of you feel better.

Again, nothing to debate just sore feelings - I've moved on you guys should give it a try; but I hope for too much....

 

[RedDogSD]

Why are they dumb....SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT THIS IS IN EXISTENCE!! All that has been stated here that a points program is going to be coming out in June, and it is going to based upon the Asian Points Program.

Wow!! The world is end in December 2012! It was supposed to end in 1999. I am still here!

If you have a brochure, show us a link or provide a PDF! If you have a written memo, show it!

THERE ISN'T A PAPER TRAIL....Google it and the only item you see is people talking here on TUG....

There are too many people involved to not have the facts out there. All we hear is that it will be modeled off of the Asian Points Program. We hear it from SALES PEOPLE!!! Hmmmmm....

I will not believe it until I see it, why is that dumb?

Why is it stupid to call a sales department to see if people are there or in training? It is one way to possibly verify the rumors that have been circulating? Or is it that, just maybe it has been a ploy to sell units?

If this program is so great wouldn't Marriott be hyping it up to get as many people to convert when it is released? Not just drop it in people's laps and say buy now!

Compare it to the auto industry, no matter how hard they try to hide the latest redesigns, someone always gets a picture somehow, someway.

There isn't a paper trail with this...I guess being called dumb is a defense when someone hits a nerve of reality! If I am wrong when it rolls out then I am sorry, but until then I am not buying it! Just the facts....Not rumors!

Good point. Apple is the KING at keeping things quiet, and now there have been 2 Iphone 4.0s that got leaked. So, if the Iphone that gets announced next week is like the ones that got out, then more proof that you cannot keep things quite. I agree that something should be out in the Ether by now. Marriott sales reps don't get paid enough to keep quiet.

 

[JimC]

...The difference is that all the inventory is converted to points and points are points. It doesn't matter if the points are in Branson or if the points are in Maui. If it's a trust, deed location no longer matters to either the buyer or the seller. All that matters to the buyer is that they have enough points to reserve the unit they want and that the unit they want is available. ....

Doesn't your statement require that there is no home resort booking advantage and that annual fees are averaged across all resorts? Otherwise ownership location will matter. And what about locations such as California where property taxes can be assessed against individual owners (Shadow Ridge is such a resort)? What happens in that situation?

 

[jlf58]

You brought up 4 reasons and all of them had zero merit.
BTW, nobody I know said it was modeled after the Asian points system.
Maybe it it but I never said that. Rather than give more info,
I will just say wait and see.

Why are they dumb....SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT THIS IS IN EXISTENCE!! All that has been stated here that a points program is going to be coming out in June, and it is going to based upon the Asian Points Program.

Wow!! The world is end in December 2012! It was supposed to end in 1999. I am still here!

If you have a brochure, show us a link or provide a PDF! If you have a written memo, show it!

THERE ISN'T A PAPER TRAIL....Google it and the only item you see is people talking here on TUG....

There are too many people involved to not have the facts out there. All we hear is that it will be modeled off of the Asian Points Program. We hear it from SALES PEOPLE!!! Hmmmmm....

I will not believe it until I see it, why is that dumb?

Why is it stupid to call a sales department to see if people are there or in training? It is one way to possibly verify the rumors that have been circulating? Or is it that, just maybe it has been a ploy to sell units?

If this program is so great wouldn't Marriott be hyping it up to get as many people to convert when it is released? Not just drop it in people's laps and say buy now!

Compare it to the auto industry, no matter how hard they try to hide the latest redesigns, someone always gets a picture somehow, someway.

There isn't a paper trail with this...I guess being called dumb is a defense when someone hits a nerve of reality! If I am wrong when it rolls out then I am sorry, but until then I am not buying it! Just the facts....Not rumors!

 

[Dean]

Fletch...

Do you mean to tell me that sales reps are pushing EOY's at "primo" prices fully aware that in 3 weeks these units will not be invited to the "party"??? Is there any disclosure to the potential buyer??? Yikes, How do they sleep at night???? Would not want to be one of the late purchasers of those units only to find out a few days later that they are being excluded from all of the "enhancements"

I doubt the ground level sales staff are esp aware of what's coming, they're likely sitting around speculating just like we are. Of course some will take their speculations as fodder for a sales approach and to have a little fun with their potential clients. Companies usually try to keep these type of things pretty hush hush until they have to let everyone know. The upper level sales staff likely no more than those that are at the ground level. They are likely in violation of their employment/compliances rules if they reveal certain issues even if they know about them.

As for closing, I doubt it makes any difference whether they rotate the staff or do it al at once. For something so different the cost of closing will likely be a drop in the bucket to the overall potential benefit. The problem is that once you change over, anyone not trained is almost worthless until they are. And if you train others too early you risk them not retaining the info well and word of mouth distorting the info and causing more problems than it's worth. You could phase in entire resorts or groups of resorts into a points program but that has it's own issue. IMO, all 3 options (rotating training, phased conversions and one big change) are all reasonable options.

I would like to be able to consider ALL options and, on principle, want all optioins open to me. I pay MF's that are just as big as any other owner at the resorts we own. I should have the opportunity to consider any new program, even if it turns out the program doesn't work for me. Exclusion is the surest way to piss off your owners. Just read the threads from resale owners when they contemplate being excluded or charged more than those that buy direct.

There may be a difference in what you want and what options you are given. Resale owners may not have the same options or may have a higher price, what you paid originally may be the credit you get for conversions, EOY owners may not be included, even lower season (Bronze) owners may have limited or no conversion options. Didn't FF restrict who they allowed to convert based on the demand of the week in question when they went through this type of change?

 

[Dean]

We met with our sales rep and a corporate sales rep yesterday. The new program becomes effective June 17, 2010. On that date all unsold property is rolled into a trust. Those weeks will then be the base of a points system. New customers will buy points. Each of the weeks or partial weeks available in the trust will require points to use. This program will work much like the points to use a Marriott Hotel. The weeks we own can be used as we currently use them, rolled over to hotel or time share points. The points for our weeks can them be used on a daily basis versus our current weekly basis.
There will also be some type of maintenance fee accessed to all new customers bases on the total maintenance required for all of the resort weeks in the trust.

Marriott is also dumping II. The theory is that must Marriott customers want to stay at Marriott timeshares. Those who belong to II will have the opportunity of depositing their weeks at II for exchange, but Marriott will not require one to go through II.

This info is somewhat consistent with some of the more reliable rumors out there. But as noted, only 2 posts and it came from a timeshare salesperson, does question the validity somewhat. However, to go strictly from your info as posted, it does suggest no home resort priority since I don't believe they could spread the fees evenly across a trust with a home resort priority. The other issue is that I don't see members losing the II option though they may indeed lose the internal trading preference and may not have to go through II for Marriott trades.

Related to other info posted above, IF there is no home resort priority or even just no season priority, it will make Plat and Plat Plus time more valuable at many resorts for weeks not converted. The question is whether the increased value justifies the increased overall costs.

 

[taffy19]

Dittos what I said before.

Westgate to the rescue again.

That's 3 who have given up and must mumble about evil Westgate - I know I've scored some point here today!

Sorry Perry that I mentioned Wastegate but I didn't read before that you had bought at Planet Hollywood. I am sure that the towers will get completed as the real estate there is too valuable. You haven't lost anything yet but I can imagine that you no longer trust salesmen after that purchase. There are other developers were nothing but lies are told and I can mention a few outside this country.

You did better on Maui, if you bought there too, as we went to Duke's and visited the Honua Kai Resort which is a beautiful resort on Ka'anapali Beach with a decent warm water swimming pool. When you take chances in life, you may end up a winner or a loser.

Perry believed in Planet Hollywood or he wouldn't have bought there. He shared his opinion freely on TUG as I just Googled the thread but nobody had to buy it. Mine was a general remark because most people hate Wastegate and don't trust them for a dime. I still trust Marriott.

I think I am going to sit back and wait until the end of the month. If Marriott hasn't announced anything by then, I consider it a rumor too but why did Marriott not stop these rumors a long time ago? It doesn't make sense. :annoyed:

 

[pacheco18]

1643 posts on a topic no one knows anything about!

What a colossal waste of time! LOL

 

[PerryM]

Sorry Perry that I mentioned Wastegate but I didn't read before that you had bought at Planet Hollywood. I am sure that the towers will get completed as the real estate there is too valuable. You haven't lost anything yet but I can imagine that you no longer trust salesmen after that purchase. There are other developers were nothing but lies are told and I can mention a few outside this country.

You did better on Maui, if you bought there too, as we went to Duke's and visited the Honua Kai Resort which is a beautiful resort on Ka'anapali Beach with a decent warm water swimming pool. When you take chances in life, you may end up a winner or a loser.

Perry believed in Planet Hollywood or he wouldn't have bought there. He shared his opinion freely on TUG as I just Googled the thread but nobody had to buy it. Mine was a general remark because most people hate Wastegate and don't trust them for a dime. I still trust Marriott.

I think I am going to sit back and wait until the end of the month. If Marriott hasn't announced anything by then, I consider it a rumor too but why did Marriott not stop these rumors a long time ago? It doesn't make sense. :annoyed:

I don't know if I've brought up the touchy topic of Westgate in the past 5 years - I stay away from it since so many here have such a negative feeling about them.

5 years is a long time to hold a grudge and I now assume that I'm not the focus of evil but Westgate.

Guys, if you hate Westgate so bad call the guy who owns the place and write an article or do something useful - dragging me into your fight maybe makes some of you feel good but nothing gets accomplished.

Again I ask folks, if you have a beef with Westgate take it up with them and tell us how you are doing in your fight. Me; I don't want to get involved with your problems folks....

 

[potchak]

So what is the no more EOY's being sold by Marriott mean for those of us trying to resell our EOY unit through Marriott? Any thoughts?

 

[dougp26364]

1643 posts on a topic no one knows anything about!

What a colossal waste of time! LOL

One of the best posts on this thread.

 

[dougp26364]

Marriott's just doing this to enrich their stockholders - I don't find fault with that at all.

Legally they probably will decrease my "worth" of our Gold Summit Watch - I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it.

2 weeks and we will know a lot more - we will see if the salesrep was right:

"And you will love it".

I'm not sure I will love it. I may either be forced to stay were I am (we own two developer EOY weeks and use our one EY week rather than exchange) or, even if my EOY weeks can go into the program, it might not be something I like. If it's a trust based ownership where I have to give up my deeds, I'll have to think long and hard before acting.

Two more weeks. That seems like forever the way this thread is going. Three more weeks and we'll be at the Marriott in Breckenridge. That will be the first big decision for us. If they have a sales force there (I think that one's been sold out for a long time) do we go listen and risk starting the clock (assuming they give us a deadline to think about it) or do we wait until we get to our home resort at Ocean Pointe, where Marriott is still actively selling Oceana Palms.

Decisions, decisions. To possibly be one of the first to hear it out of sit back and let others go first, then digest and prepare questions for the time when it's our turn. I'm leaning towards waiting to see what other post, forumalate my concerns and questions, then sit down and talk.

 

[PerryM]

Shock and awe in the Marriott camp...

I'm not sure I will love it. I may either be forced to stay were I am (we own two developer EOY weeks and use our one EY week rather than exchange) or, even if my EOY weeks can go into the program, it might not be something I like. If it's a trust based ownership where I have to give up my deeds, I'll have to think long and hard before acting.

Two more weeks. That seems like forever the way this thread is going. Three more weeks and we'll be at the Marriott in Breckenridge. That will be the first big decision for us. If they have a sales force there (I think that one's been sold out for a long time) do we go listen and risk starting the clock (assuming they give us a deadline to think about it) or do we wait until we get to our home resort at Ocean Pointe, where Marriott is still actively selling Oceana Palms.

Decisions, decisions. To possibly be one of the first to hear it out of sit back and let others go first, then digest and prepare questions for the time when it's our turn. I'm leaning towards waiting to see what other post, forumalate my concerns and questions, then sit down and talk.

If Marriott dumps weeks and starts a trust based Points system this is about as big a topic one can image in the past 20 years.

Personally, I'm going to see how I can exploit all the events that will present themselves to us. I can only imagine that there will be fleeting opportunities for those that have analyzed this and are prepared to act.

Most Marriott owners will simply be overwhelmed and just go with whatever Marriott recommends.

I can't tell you what I will do - after the shock and awe subsides there will be plenty to debate and, finally, to act on.