Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[GregT]

And as a CPA who spent 31 years working on SEC filings for public companies and what type of business change is reportable under SEC rules, I can assure you that this change won't even be a blip on the screen for Marriott in terms of how the market will view it. The financial considerations are extremely unlikely to be significant enough to warrant advance reporting.

I second Dave's comments -- I'm also a CPA and have been the CFO of two publicly-traded companies -- this change is not material at all to Marriott's operations/financial results and I doubt there will be any specific disclosure when they do roll-out the new program (perhaps an obscure reference deep in a securities filing to a change in how they are marketing timeshares) -- it's a non-event to investors (only a big event to us TUGgers!).

Good luck to all,

Greg

 

[rovitm]

I have only been keeping up with this topic for a couple of weeks. Around a month ago I inquired about a EOY in Newport. I already have a EOY resale. My Marriott rep provided the pricing and I told him I would think about it.

I called my rep today and told him I was still thinking about it. I asked him should I buy now or wait two weeks until the points system comes out. Of course he said to buy now. By buying now I would enjoy the best of both worlds and I would be very happy. I asked him if I do buy now will there be a fee to convert and would it be the same for my resale. He told me he did not know how much it would cost. I said it would be crazy to buy now not knowing the costs it may be to convert and not really knowing how I would benefit from it. He did tell me that I will not be obligated to convert the resale week and had nothing else really to say.

As I stated in another thread, responding to one of your pooh-poohs of the forthcoming points / internal exchange program, the "rumors" are based in fact.

I won't repeat the rest of that post except to say that my sources within Marriott have not been wrong (other than with respect to timing) on any topic that I have posted here based on those sources over the past five years.

And as a CPA who spent 31 years working on SEC filings for public companies and what type of business change is reportable under SEC rules, I can assure you that this change won't even be a blip on the screen for Marriott in terms of how the market will view it. The financial considerations are extremely unlikely to be significant enough to warrant advance reporting.

And if you don't believe the info about the new program hasn't been leaking, you haven't been reading the many consistent reports on this forum.

It's coming. I still haven't been able to obtain the details, but it will be here soon.

 

[Dean]

Timeshare developers have always had a hard time dealing with resales - because what they sell is a resale! There is no such timeshare as "Brand spanking new" - they sell units that are well worn just like you and I.

Hence there is this developer mentality of "Us versus 400,000 owners" which can only take place when what they sell is so full of pork that there is a difference to begin with.

Marriott had a very benign difference, as a developer, the MRP. Starting about 4 years ago Marriott seems to have decided that it wasn't enough to take on 400,000 owners. The new internal exchange system is years and years of pent up rage directed at you and I, the loyal owner.

Make no mistake about it, the new internal exchange system is a weapon of mass revenge against the 400,000 owners for all those lost sales over the years...

Perry, I don't understand why you own with Marriott or even why you are involved in timesharing. In many ways owning a timeshare is a gamble that the resort/developer will at least hold some type of usage value and quality and on their management of the resorts in question. I can certainly tell you that if I was that distrustful of Marriott, I would not own with them, period. To me there are 2 clear components here, one of sales and one of the resort management itself. They are about as unrelated as they can possibly be. I think for one to participate in timeshares and not go crazy, you've got to separate them out in your own mind, some might say you have to rationalize certain portions.

I don't believe for a second that this is a vendetta against the owners, however, in the process of positioning and selling a new product it's likely some will lose out. Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs so to speak.

I am a bit confused as to how lower value weeks will potentially be better off. I understand the concept of combining points, but I'm not so sure people will be thrilled about paying several years of MF's for a single week, versus the uptrading that many have managed to achieve through II.

This outlook is a complete 180 from what Fletch had posted way back- that lower season owners would be less likely to join.

To be more clear, I've more specifically stated that I think Gold and possibly Silver at the more in demand resorts, and platinum, at the trading type resorts are likely to be the best values to upgrade. However, I believe it's very possible that the bronze owners will get a better "value" in upgrading than will those with high demand weeks. It's simply due to the relative value of those units as is compared to the relative value if brought inside a points system, NOT the absolute value of each in terms of points.

For sake of discussion I pulled out a sales sheet on Ocean Watch dated 2003. The prices range from $7200 Bronze GV to 33,900 Platinum Plus OF. Currently those Bronze owners are paying X in yearly fees, the same as the Plat Plus owners, but they have a lot less options in many ways as well as a lot less value (and cost up front). I don't think it's feasible for the points for Bronze to be 1/5 of the Plat Plus so lets assume that a week Bronze costs 25K points and a Plat Plus 75K and that the fees remain the same and that there is a one year banking and borrowing as well as a short notice, cheap option. The Bronze owner could then have the ability to trade up to a higher season but less often, something they really can't do now. You and I both know it'll cost them 3 times as much to do so based on fees alone but at least they'll have options. Worst case scenario is they pay an upgrade fee and use it for the Bronze full week and have the same fees as now plus a club fee.

Obviously specifics will rule but I can far more easily see converting my 4 play weeks than my 5 HH summer weeks.

For a Marriott bought week:
$400 to convert now
$1,500 lost on resale
-----------
$1,900 net cost per week to join


For a resale Marriott bought week:
$1,500 to convert now
$1,500 lost on resale
-------------
$3,000 net cost per week to join

For a Marriott owner who decides not to join:
$1,500 lost on resale per week



If the average Marriott owner has 2 weeks this new exchange scheme will cost EACH Marriott owner:

• Marriott bought 2 weeks and joins - $3,800
• Resale bought 2 weeks and joins - $6,000
• Marriott owner who does not convert 2 weeks - $3,000

All because Marriott wants to chuck selling timeshare weeks and get into the Point exchange club business.

Thanks a lot Marriott.....

Perry, even with your assumptions, you can only lose if you actually sell.

For a Marriott bought week:
$400 to convert now
$1,500 lost on resale
-----------
$1,900 net cost per week to join


For a resale Marriott bought week:
$1,500 to convert now
$1,500 lost on resale
-------------
$3,000 net cost per week to join

For a Marriott owner who decides not to join:
$1,500 lost on resale per week



If the average Marriott owner has 2 weeks this new exchange scheme will cost EACH Marriott owner:

• Marriott bought 2 weeks and joins - $3,800
• Resale bought 2 weeks and joins - $6,000
• Marriott owner who does not convert 2 weeks - $3,000

All because Marriott wants to chuck selling timeshare weeks and get into the Point exchange club business.

Thanks a lot Marriott.....

Hundreds of resorts do that every day. How many places do you know charging thousands of dollars, and making sales, for something you can buy pennies on the dollar right now. Timeshares are like new cars only 10-100 times worse. IMO, it's not dishonest to say here's the costs and the benefits and ignore the fact you can save big buying resale. I know of very few instances (but a few) where a timeshare salesperson told the client about resale.

 

[RandR]

As I stated in another thread, responding to one of your pooh-poohs of the forthcoming points / internal exchange program, the "rumors" are based in fact.

I won't repeat the rest of that post except to say that my sources within Marriott have not been wrong (other than with respect to timing) on any topic that I have posted here based on those sources over the past five years.

And as a CPA who spent 31 years working on SEC filings for public companies and what type of business change is reportable under SEC rules, I can assure you that this change won't even be a blip on the screen for Marriott in terms of how the market will view it. The financial considerations are extremely unlikely to be significant enough to warrant advance reporting.

And if you don't believe the info about the new program hasn't been leaking, you haven't been reading the many consistent reports on this forum.

It's coming. I still haven't been able to obtain the details, but it will be here soon.

Dave, I understand what you are saying. But since it appears to be something that is so inconsequential to their earnings, what's the sense of making the change?

 

[Dave M]

Not counting 2009's economy-affected drop in earnings, a normal year for Marriott should be over $500,000,000 in net income. Thus, adding a few more million $ (or whatever it might be) with the new program would certainly add to the bottom line, but not enough so to warrant any advance SEC-required disclosure.

 

[JimC]

Dave, I understand what you are saying. But since it appears to be something that is so inconsequential to their earnings, what's the sense of making the change?

Because it is not inconsequential to the business unit.

 

[Cindala]

For sake of discussion I pulled out a sales sheet on Ocean Watch dated 2003. The prices range from $7200 Bronze GV to 33,900 Platinum Plus OF. Currently those Bronze owners are paying X in yearly fees, the same as the Plat Plus owners, but they have a lot less options in many ways as well as a lot less value (and cost up front). I don't think it's feasible for the points for Bronze to be 1/5 of the Plat Plus so lets assume that a week Bronze costs 25K points and a Plat Plus 75K and that the fees remain the same and that there is a one year banking and borrowing as well as a short notice, cheap option. The Bronze owner could then have the ability to trade up to a higher season but less often, something they really can't do now. You and I both know it'll cost them 3 times as much to do so based on fees alone but at least they'll have options. Worst case scenario is they pay an upgrade fee and use it for the Bronze full week and have the same fees as now plus a club fee.

Spoken like a true Marriott Salesman.

 

[Dean]

Spoken like a true Marriott Salesman.

Not me, I'm too honest and I WOULD be telling them about resale. Just an example of how it might be a good option to convert if you owned lower seasons.

 

[jlf58]

The EOY is not part of the new system so it doesn't matter either way. Anyone who owns an EOY, will NOT have an option to join, period

I have only been keeping up with this topic for a couple of weeks. Around a month ago I inquired about a EOY in Newport. I already have a EOY resale. My Marriott rep provided the pricing and I told him I would think about it.

I called my rep today and told him I was still thinking about it. I asked him should I buy now or wait two weeks until the points system comes out. Of course he said to buy now. By buying now I would enjoy the best of both worlds and I would be very happy. I asked him if I do buy now will there be a fee to convert and would it be the same for my resale. He told me he did not know how much it would cost. I said it would be crazy to buy now not knowing the costs it may be to convert and not really knowing how I would benefit from it. He did tell me that I will not be obligated to convert the resale week and had nothing else really to say.

 

[DanCali]

Perry, even with your assumptions, you can only lose if you actually sell.

Huh? If you think a paper loss isn't a real loss you should read this...

Make no mistake and do not kid yourselves - if resale prices go down starting this month this is a real loss for all Marriott owners.

 

[PerryM]

Perry, I don't understand why you own with Marriott or even why you are involved in timesharing. In many ways owning a timeshare is a gamble that the resort/developer will at least hold some type of usage value and quality and on their management of the resorts in question.
.......

Perry, even with your assumptions, you can only lose if you actually sell.

Hundreds of resorts do that every day. How many places do you know charging thousands of dollars, and making sales, for something you can buy pennies on the dollar right now. Timeshares are like new cars only 10-100 times worse. IMO, it's not dishonest to say here's the costs and the benefits and ignore the fact you can save big buying resale. I know of very few instances (but a few) where a timeshare salesperson told the client about resale.

Let me recap what Marriott is about to do to me:

I bought a Gold Summit Watch about 5 years ago resale for $5,500. Since then I've played by the 15 year old rules and have exchanged the Gold for Platinum every year and have stayed holidays in Maui and in Park City. I'm a happy Marriott owner and II fan.

Summit Watch is a mature Marriott and sold out 10 years ago. Since then Marriott cleans the toilets and does a great job of it. I'm happy to have Marriott do that. SW owners exchange reservations among themselves and other Marriott owners - life is good.

Now Marriott decides it wants to squeeze more money out of me and turn my fellow SW owners against each other and wipe out the benefits we quietly enjoyed by introducing a new exchange system and possibly an entirely different way of selling timeshares.

Marriott is impacting me negatively and I don't like it. I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal or immoral just legally screwing me royally.

And the net result to me is what? Lower resale values, little chance of doing what I did before, costing me and my fellow SW owners big bucks to join. All to do what is already being done with II right now. I don't believe Marriott will do a better job of exchanging reservations than II, just cost ten times as much.

I take this as a hostile attack on the status quo at Summit Watch. Companies do hostile attacks on other companies all the time - that's business. Marriott just decided that it would do the same thing to its customers.

Others believe this is good for us - only time will tell.

 

[GregT]

Dave, I understand what you are saying. But since it appears to be something that is so inconsequential to their earnings, what's the sense of making the change?

I think this is a brilliant (self-interested) move by Marriott -- even though it is not a material part to their business. Historically, they've purchased land, sat on it for years, and then developed timeshares that they've sold for incredible amounts of money. This has been very lucrative, but now, in a different economy, they can no longer rely on this source of [volatile] revenue.

So, convert to a point system, and you will have many owners that will pay an annual fee of [$XX] per year, and [$XX] for an internal trade. This is a stable, recurring cash flow that you can model. You still make money on the sale of points, plus you can repurchase the existing network, and resell it at the higher points value without incurring the development cost/risk.

Truly, a brilliant move by Marriott. Unlike my good friend Perry, from whom I've learned alot, I believe Marriott will introduce a flexible system that leverages their existing network of timeshares/hotels and make the existing owners fair offers to join the system -- and how tantalizing for us that we no longer have to submit to blind trades thru II, but instead can look at a system that tells us what is available and gives us the power to immediately secure it -- for a reasonable fee.

I remain cautiously optimistic that this will be system that is very interesting -- and I am highly confident that TUG will find the loopholes that allow us to maximize the opportunities presented.

We should be focused on which are the Platinum Weeks that will be highly prized (pointed) in the Marriott system but that have reasonable MFs? In the (reviled) Wyndham system, one of the best properties is Wyndham Smoky Mountains (which I own) -- it has the lowest MFs in the system, and points are points. I don't really care about the home resort advantage at Smoky Mtns, I bought it because I want to go to Elysian Beach Resort.

So what's the Marriott parallel to Smoky Mountains (if points are points, and Home Resort Advantage doesn't matter).

Hilton Head? Lots of timeshares. Palm Desert? Too many units. Orlando? Never mind. Hawaii? Mfs hurt.

Newport Coast Villas??????????????????????????????

Best to all,

Greg

 

[dougp26364]

But, if you want to extend Perry's conspiracy theory, Marriott is hoping to crush resale prices. This way they can scoop up cheap, but valuable weeks with ROFR to add to their points system.

But when ROFR starts being used again, people who want the Marriott week will increase the bidding to overcome ROFR, much like they have in the past. ROFR only serves to artifically inflate resale pricing. In order for Marriott to scope up timeshares cheaply, they would need to do so under the radar as a competing bidder/buyer.

 

[dougp26364]

The EOY is not part of the new system so it doesn't matter either way. Anyone who owns an EOY, will NOT have an option to join, period

Maybe that's true but I sort of doubt it. If this is a trust based program, it would be relatively easy to convert the EOY week to trust based points at 50% of the EY units value, then just make the lower point total every year points. One would then have to borrow/save points to achieve EOY usage. It really doesn't seem to be a difficult step IMHO.

 

[dougp26364]

Huh? If you think a paper loss isn't a real loss you should read this...

Make no mistake and do not kid yourselves - if resale prices go down starting this month this is a real loss for all Marriott owners.

Not for me. Like a stock value that goes down you only lose if you sell. I'm not selling at this moment so there is no monetary loss. So long as I can use my ownership for it's intended purpose, vacations, I'm still 100% whole.

 

[dougp26364]

Let me recap what Marriott is about to do to me:

I bought a Gold Summit Watch about 5 years ago resale for $5,500. Since then I've played by the 15 year old rules and have exchanged the Gold for Platinum every year and have stayed holidays in Maui and in Park City. I'm a happy Marriott owner and II fan.

Summit Watch is a mature Marriott and sold out 10 years ago. Since then Marriott cleans the toilets and does a great job of it. I'm happy to have Marriott do that. SW owners exchange reservations among themselves and other Marriott owners - life is good.

Now Marriott decides it wants to squeeze more money out of me and turn my fellow SW owners against each other and wipe out the benefits we quietly enjoyed by introducing a new exchange system and possibly an entirely different way of selling timeshares.

Marriott is impacting me negatively and I don't like it. I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal or immoral just legally screwing me royally.

And the net result to me is what? Lower resale values, little chance of doing what I did before, costing me and my fellow SW owners big bucks to join. All to do what is already being done with II right now. I don't believe Marriott will do a better job of exchanging reservations than II, just cost ten times as much.

I take this as a hostile attack on the status quo at Summit Watch. Companies do hostile attacks on other companies all the time - that's business. Marriott just decided that it would do the same thing to its customers.

Others believe this is good for us - only time will tell.

You're making assumptions that, IMHO aren't going to materialize.

I own with DRI. DRI has three types of owners. Deeded week owners, deeded week owners who converted their weeks to points and trust based owners who don't have a deed. Deeded week owners still exchange via Interval and get good trades (I can still search my deeded Vegas weeks with Interval and there's not change in value). Points and trust based owners can use the internal exchange system or stay at their home resort. No one has lost value as far as being able to stay at their home resort or exchange in the same manner they did when they purchased.

I had my doubts about a system with THREE types of owners (Marriott is only looking at two types) but, it works and it works very well. From my personal experience, you're worried about nothing. You'll STILL be able to make the exhanges you've made in the past if you stand pat. You might be able to make better exchanges for less money if you move to the new system. You can only lose money in the resale market if you sell your timeshare.

 

[dougp26364]

I think this is a brilliant (self-interested) move by Marriott -- even though it is not a material part to their business. Historically, they've purchased land, sat on it for years, and then developed timeshares that they've sold for incredible amounts of money. This has been very lucrative, but now, in a different economy, they can no longer rely on this source of [volatile] revenue.

So, convert to a point system, and you will have many owners that will pay an annual fee of [$XX] per year, and [$XX] for an internal trade. This is a stable, recurring cash flow that you can model. You still make money on the sale of points, plus you can repurchase the existing network, and resell it at the higher points value without incurring the development cost/risk.

Truly, a brilliant move by Marriott. Unlike my good friend Perry, from whom I've learned alot, I believe Marriott will introduce a flexible system that leverages their existing network of timeshares/hotels and make the existing owners fair offers to join the system -- and how tantalizing for us that we no longer have to submit to blind trades thru II, but instead can look at a system that tells us what is available and gives us the power to immediately secure it -- for a reasonable fee.

I remain cautiously optimistic that this will be system that is very interesting -- and I am highly confident that TUG will find the loopholes that allow us to maximize the opportunities presented.

We should be focused on which are the Platinum Weeks that will be highly prized (pointed) in the Marriott system but that have reasonable MFs? In the (reviled) Wyndham system, one of the best properties is Wyndham Smoky Mountains (which I own) -- it has the lowest MFs in the system, and points are points. I don't really care about the home resort advantage at Smoky Mtns, I bought it because I want to go to Elysian Beach Resort.

So what's the Marriott parallel to Smoky Mountains (if points are points, and Home Resort Advantage doesn't matter).

Hilton Head? Lots of timeshares. Palm Desert? Too many units. Orlando? Never mind. Hawaii? Mfs hurt.

Newport Coast Villas??????????????????????????????

Best to all,

Greg

I'm thinking Manor Club or maybe Willow Ridge in Branson might be the equivilent

 

[PerryM]

Marriott's #1 competitor - me...

You're making assumptions that, IMHO aren't going to materialize.

I own with DRI. DRI has three types of owners. Deeded week owners, deeded week owners who converted their weeks to points and trust based owners who don't have a deed. Deeded week owners still exchange via Interval and get good trades (I can still search my deeded Vegas weeks with Interval and there's not change in value). Points and trust based owners can use the internal exchange system or stay at their home resort. No one has lost value as far as being able to stay at their home resort or exchange in the same manner they did when they purchased.

I had my doubts about a system with THREE types of owners (Marriott is only looking at two types) but, it works and it works very well. From my personal experience, you're worried about nothing. You'll STILL be able to make the exhanges you've made in the past if you stand pat. You might be able to make better exchanges for less money if you move to the new system. You can only lose money in the resale market if you sell your timeshare.

Good grief, we're talking about a timeshare developer who distorts, misinforms, and misleads Ma and Pa off the street with a product they can't afford and sticks them with 14.99% financing for 10 years and then hits them with $1,000 in MFs each year. Once Ma and Pa buy then besmirch their very ownership in the resale market.

I believe I am justified in believing that Marriott will look out for their stockholders and could care less about their #1 competitor - me, the Marriott owner.

I'm not sure where the kinder, gentler Marriott rumor evolved; certainly not from me....

 

[billymach4]

The EOY is not part of the new system so it doesn't matter either way. Anyone who owns an EOY, will NOT have an option to join, period

If this is indeed the case then EOY weeks might become somewhat of a hot commodity?

Marriott will make them untouchable. Thats a good thing. Life goes on as normal.

What do you think?

 

[DanCali]

If this is indeed the case then EOY weeks might become somewhat of a hot commodity?

Marriott will make them untouchable. Thats a good thing. Life goes on as normal.

What do you think?

If the argument for lower resale values is that buyers want to join but want the seller to pay the fee, then if buyers truly want to join there will be less demand for weeks that can't join... You can also argue it in a different way - EOY weeks would have fewer exchange opportunities, since they cannot join the points system, making them less valuable. And with more weeks in a points system and fewer weeks in II, life will not go on as normal for both EY and EOY weeks owners...

 

[dougp26364]

Good grief, we're talking about a timeshare developer who distorts, misinforms, and misleads Ma and Pa off the street with a product they can't afford and sticks them with 14.99% financing for 10 years and then hits them with $1,000 in MFs each year. Once Ma and Pa buy then besmirch their very ownership in the resale market.

I believe I am justified in believing that Marriott will look out for their stockholders and could care less about their #1 competitor - me, the Marriott owner.

I'm not sure where the kinder, gentler Marriott rumor evolved; certainly not from me....

I didn't say they were a kinder/gentler timeshare developer. I just said it's not going to be as bad as you fear. Depsite spliting the inventory into points and deeds, you'll still be able to get your exchanges just like you've done before. DRI has three different types of owners and all can exchange relatively easily. I see no difference in my deeded weeks exchange power after being introduced into the points system than before a points based system was ever a thought. You'll still be able to get those weeks exchanges you're use to getting. You'll still be able to trade that gold week into holiday weeks. You're worrying about nothing IMHO.

 

[dougp26364]

If the argument for lower resale values is that buyers want to join but want the seller to pay the fee, then if buyers truly want to join there will be less demand for weeks that can't join... You can also argue it in a different way - EOY weeks would have fewer exchange opportunities, since they cannot join the points system, making them less valuable. And with more weeks in a points system and fewer weeks in II, life will not go on as normal for both EY and EOY weeks owners...

One more time. I own in a system that has THREE classifications of owners. My deeded weeks trade just as well as they did before the points based systems were available. It's not that big of a deal and we're chasing shadows here.

My MGC week is actually two EOY weeks. If I can't join the points based program because they won't let EOY weeks join, I'm not sweating it. I'll just continue on as I have in the past.

Honestly, it's not going to be that big of a deal. I've been working withing DRI's system of deeded weeks, deeded points and trust based ownership for a little over two years and it's six one way, half a dozen the other. I prefer the points based internal system because it's been a money saver but, if I'm locked out any new points based system Marriott comes out with, big deal. I'll continue to exchange just the same way I've always exchanged.

I hope they come out and announce whatever they're going to do soon. This speculation is really getting kind of wild IMO.

 

[Dean]

Huh? If you think a paper loss isn't a real loss you should read this...

Make no mistake and do not kid yourselves - if resale prices go down starting this month this is a real loss for all Marriott owners.

We'll have to disagree on the issue that a paper loss has meaning with timeshares. Plus as I said before, I do not believe Marriott has a responsibility to your or my resale value.

Let me recap what Marriott is about to do to me:

I bought a Gold Summit Watch about 5 years ago resale for $5,500. Since then I've played by the 15 year old rules and have exchanged the Gold for Platinum every year and have stayed holidays in Maui and in Park City. I'm a happy Marriott owner and II fan.

Summit Watch is a mature Marriott and sold out 10 years ago. Since then Marriott cleans the toilets and does a great job of it. I'm happy to have Marriott do that. SW owners exchange reservations among themselves and other Marriott owners - life is good.

Now Marriott decides it wants to squeeze more money out of me and turn my fellow SW owners against each other and wipe out the benefits we quietly enjoyed by introducing a new exchange system and possibly an entirely different way of selling timeshares.

Marriott is impacting me negatively and I don't like it. I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal or immoral just legally screwing me royally.

And the net result to me is what? Lower resale values, little chance of doing what I did before, costing me and my fellow SW owners big bucks to join. All to do what is already being done with II right now. I don't believe Marriott will do a better job of exchanging reservations than II, just cost ten times as much.

I take this as a hostile attack on the status quo at Summit Watch. Companies do hostile attacks on other companies all the time - that's business. Marriott just decided that it would do the same thing to its customers.

Others believe this is good for us - only time will tell.

Perry I know I'm not going to change your mind. IMO, even in the worst case scenario, you would not lose anything that you actually were sold. You were not sold the ability to exchange through II and certainly not the ability to have an internal trading preference. That you were able to do that for a few years is just gravy, IMO. And while I do expect some of those options to go away eventually (internal trading preference, less inventory to II), most of them likely will not. As to what you paid, what's it worth right now? $500-1000 maybe. You said yourself you're assuming the worst, IMO, you're assuming far worse than the worst this could turn out. We'll see if and what happens with this.

So what's the Marriott parallel to Smoky Mountains (if points are points, and Home Resort Advantage doesn't matter).

Hilton Head? Lots of timeshares. Palm Desert? Too many units. Orlando? Never mind. Hawaii? Mfs hurt.

Depends on how it's set up. If you pay fees based on the underlying resort and the points are set up as I envision they might be and reflective more of buy in price but not as skewed, I'd agree with Platinum at Branson, Orlando, Manor Club and similar. If they are mored skewed more in line with actual demand, places like HH and MB might come out better. I'd look at it like I do RCI points now, how many points do I get for each dollar of fees compared to what is the buy in price.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

Fletch this one is for you...

Please explain to me the logic of MVCI excluding EOY's from the "points-internal exchange" option. It seems to me that the more inventory in the "points" program the more appealing the program will be to both owners/converters AND new purchasers... My simple mind cannot come up with any possible motive/profit by this exclusion!!!

 

[m61376]

The EOY is not part of the new system so it doesn't matter either way. Anyone who owns an EOY, will NOT have an option to join, period

wow- that would be surprising- Marriott in essence telling even developer bought purchasers that they're not wanted. All those people who paid a premium to buy an EOY week, or bought 2 EOY weeks to different destinations, or believed the salesperson who told them buy an EOY now and take a year to decide whether to buy another one (but still ended up with 2 EOY units).