Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[SueDonJ]

Over the years the definition of timeshares has changed - originally they were sold as a time-slice of a fixed week at a fixed condo at a fixed resort, now folks want flexibility and want usage of many condos at many destinations from their "unit".

Points adds this capability but affects the existing sold out Marriotts - those folks bought their timeshare under older definitions and now Marriott is to completely redefine their timeshare - into a vacation club and they might really get screwed by this.

Depending on how Marriott treats resales they will have a HUGE impact on existing resorts where Marriott simply cleans the toilets. That 800 pound gorilla drops big smelly poops.

So we shall see how the janitor's wishes and desires impacts the lives of the owners who employ him; and if they will just sit on their hands while this takes place.

P.S.

People buy stability and sell instability - something Marriott seems to have never hear of....

Perry, all of your thoughts are based upon the assumption that Marriott's rumored points system will apply to every aspect of ownership. Are you as adamantly opposed to a points system that will not affect home resort usage at all but instead only apply to internal exchanges?

(You're killing me with the "country is insane" and gorilla stuff. Come down off that ledge!)

 

[ecwinch]

So we shall see how the janitor's wishes and desires impacts the lives of the owners who employ him; and if they will just sit on their hands while this takes place.

Know many janitors that have their name on the front of the building?

There is a little bit more to the relationship than them just mopping the floors and changing the toilet paper.

Their actions may devalue our ownership in the minds of some, but we still have the right to use the timeshare we own.

 

[PerryM]

Beware the bogeyman....

Perry, all of your thoughts are based upon the assumption that Marriott's rumored points system will apply to every aspect of ownership. Are you as adamantly opposed to a points system that will not affect home resort usage at all but instead only apply to internal exchanges?

(You're killing me with the "country is insane" and gorilla stuff. Come down off that ledge!)

I own at Summit Watch and Marriott cleans the toilets there - they do a great job too.

However, we can vote them out and bring in someone else if we wish - we control the HOA and Marriott is just the hired help. Buried in the fine print Marriott can do some stuff that we can't control - like hawking timeshares on the property.

Know many janitors that have their name on the front of the building?

There is a little bit more to the relationship than them just mopping the floors and changing the toilet paper.

Their actions may devalue our ownership in the minds of some, but we still have the right to use the timeshare we own.

If Marriott doesn't pit one owner against another owner at Summit Watch I could care less how they add the sales gimmick called "Internal Marriott Exchange System". Make no mistake about it this is just a sales gimmick they are talking about. What we have now with II works perfectly fine.

Marriott seems to revel in the idea of pitting one Marriott owner against another Marriott owner - you can see it here. Wyndham does a great job of this and resales are but 5% the value of what Wyndham sells it for. What makes folks think the same doesn't await us?

We have ample examples of other developers stepping on the necks of their owners and doing all kinds of things that benefit their stock holders and hurt the owners and resorts. Marriott seems to be taking notes.

Marriott has been pushing this same stupid rumor for about 4 years now and nothing has happened except the hapless salesrep, who can't sell water to a thirsty man in the desert, who shouts "Better not buy resale or the bogeyman will get you" still can't sell.

Like I said, this is just a practical joke from Marriott and they are laughing themselves silly. I get a kick out of this; that's why I join in - I can't help myself.....

 

[NWL]

Like I said, this is just a practical joke from Marriott and they are laughing themselves silly.

I agree with you that this thread was started as a practical joke, but I disagree on who the perpetrator is. This is my take on the thread:

Disgruntled Kolina sales rep got tired of prospective buyers telling him/her about TUG and buying re-sale. Disgrunteld Kolina sales rep joins TUG and starts a thread asking if the information he/she heard from "reputable" sales rep at Kolina concerning resale buyers being snubbed by Marriott when new internal system is put in place is true. Havoc ensues and disgruntled Kolina sales rep smiles and goes back to trying to sell full priced TS.

Am I right? Who knows, but since the OP has only made 2 posts, both in this thread, I think it's a pretty good guess. I thought it was fishy when it started, and I still do. I had a sales presentation at Shadow Ridge a couple of weeks ago, and when asked point blank about an internal trading system, my rep said "no". Different info coming from a different sales rep made me suspicious of this thread.

Bottom line on internal trading system: only time, and Marriott, will tell.

Cheers!

 

[Mcduck]

Well I toured The Grand chateo (spelling) last october while attending a convention in Las Vegas. The main reason wasn't for the show tickets but me and my wife are impressed with Marriott's Hotels and wanted to learn a bit about them.

First I loved the amount of locations and places marriott can take you without having to leave the brand. The only thing that held us back from buying was we tend to stay 3-5 nights and rarely for a week. I find that if marriott did have a point system of some sort and internal trading we would have purchased. I think point based systems are more flexible and like hotels. I like the fact that when I go to Vegas during slow season with Hilton I use less points and then can go peak to hawaii and use the peak season. I am not having to move just a week for a week. For what I do I have used Hilton to get my 2 2 bedroom weeks into 2 2 bedroom weeks in orlando and 5 nights in orlando 1 bedroom and 6 nights in vegas in a 1 bedroom and 3 in a studio in florida. While hilton lacks locations they offer flexibility. I think marriott would grow substantially if they implemented internal trading and a point system. Those are just my observations from someone interested in marriott but not an owner.

 

[JimIg23]

Other than what it would cost to buy in, the only other reason that would stop me from buying in is the point value system. I like that we get a week for a week when we trade thru II. Lets suppose a week at an orlando resort platinum gets you 4 days in HI now, as new resorts come open, I pretty much can bank on that their week point costs at new resorts will rise. In 5 years my week at NCV will get me 3 days at any new resort.

We can only wait and see. At the end of the day, I like my two resorts and will be happy to go to them EOY....

 

[Superchief]

I don't trust Marriott to come up with a fair point based system, based on what they have done recently to the MR reward program and the inconsistency between points you receive for depositing your week vs. points charged for someone to use it. The only somewhat 'fair' way would be to tie the points to MF fees. At least then you could get what you pay for.

 

[DanCali]

Ours was sold that way. It was explained to us during the sales presentation and it's in the Contracts for Purchase that we signed:

Quote:
... Purchaser acknowledges that the purchase of the Time Sharing Interest(s) is made for the Purchaser's personal use, and that neither Seller nor any of its agents, employees and/or affiliates has made any oral or written representations that the Purchaser would derive economic benefits or expectation of profit from appreciation ...

It's also explained in further detail in several of the governing docs; this is from the Time Sharing Plan:

Quote:
Purchaser should purchase a time sharing interest as a vacation experience and for his or her personal use and enjoyment. Purchaser should not purchase a time sharing interest as an investment or for profit upon its rental or resale.

It was quite clear to us from the start and it's confirmed with each and every related entry in all of the ownership documents. Marriott isn't charged with protecting it

That said, is it possible to make money buying and selling on the external markets? Yes, of course, although not so much in this economic climate today as was possible previously. But Marriott doesn't sell it that way and the contracts don't guarantee it.

Sure - those are CYA clauses (cannot spell out this acronym in a public forum). My mutual funds also say that past performance is not indicative of future results and if you buy them you can and may lose part or all of your money... That still doesn't mean they are sold as products intended to depreciate - and neither are timeshares. In fact, in most sales presntations you are misled to believe they appreciate when timesahres salespeople tell you that 5 years ago they sold them for X and now it's X+$8000 and if you don't hurry it will be $X+$8000+$Y...

Suppose you are contemplating buying a 2BR Plat NCV for approx $30K and the salesperson tell you that it will be a great deal even if they property is worthless in 20 years... would you buy into that?

Simplifying things, you actual cost over 20 years is $1000 in MF and taxes (assuming those costs stay fixed) and $1500 a year in depreciation - so $2500 a year, or $357 per night. Does it still sound like a good deal? Oh, and we forgot to include the opportunity cost of the initial $30K which could have been invested in treasuries for a 5% modest return which is another $1500 a year. Since this is forgone income (your property depreciates, it doesn't return 5% a year), add that to the annual cost and you get a whopping $4000 a year, or over $570 per night. And that was assuming fixed MFs... I think you can do better by renting directly even from Marriott any week of the year (including weeks 26 and 52) with more flexibility and a better cancellation policy...

If you do the math properly (including opportunity cost) it is difficult to justify buying a timeshare at any five figure price. The only way it would work is (i) if resale values appreciate over time, and/or (ii) if you can consistently rent for much more than MFs + opportunity cost of the initial investment, or (iii) if you convince yourself you invested in "luxury". We tend to gravitate towards (iii) since (i) and (ii) rarely hold... But I don't recall the pitch being investment in "luxury" at any of the presentations I attended. It was always "prepaying your vacation" and what a great financial investment it would be by having a deeded property you can will to your kids versus worthless hotel receipts.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sure - those are CYA clauses (cannot spell out this acronym in a public forum). My mutual funds also say that past performance is not indicative of future results and if you buy them you can and may lose part or all of your money... That still doesn't mean they are sold as products intended to depreciate - and neither are timeshares. In fact, in most sales presntations you are misled to believe they appreciate when timesahres salespeople tell you that 5 years ago they sold them for X and now it's X+$8000 and if you don't hurry it will be $X+$8000+$Y...

Suppose you are contemplating buying a 2BR Plat NCV for approx $30K and the salesperson tell you that it will be a great deal even if they property is worthless in 20 years... would you buy into that?

Simplifying things, you actual cost over 20 years is $1000 in MF and taxes (assuming those costs stay fixed) and $1500 a year in depreciation - so $2500 a year, or $357 per night. Does it still sound like a good deal? Oh, and we forgot to include the opportunity cost of the initial $30K which could have been invested in treasuries for a 5% modest return which is another $1500 a year. Since this is forgone income (your property depreciates, it doesn't return 5% a year), add that to the annual cost and you get a whopping $4000 a year, or over $570 per night. And that was assuming fixed MFs... I think you can do better by renting directly even from Marriott any week of the year (including weeks 26 and 52) with more flexibility and a better cancellation policy...

If you do the math properly (including opportunity cost) it is difficult to justify buying a timeshare at any five figure price. The only way it would work is (i) if resale values appreciate over time, and/or (ii) if you can consistently rent for much more than MFs + opportunity cost of the initial investment, or (iii) if you convince yourself you invested in "luxury". We tend to gravitate towards (iii) since (i) and (ii) rarely hold... But I don't recall the pitch being investment in "luxury" at any of the presentations I attended. It was always "prepaying your vacation" and what a great financial investment it would be by having a deeded property you can will to your kids versus worthless hotel receipts.

But again, Dan, you're reducing your timeshare purchase to a dollar value - that simply isn't the only value associated with it! It's cute to say that Marriott's contract provisions are simply CYA mumbo-jumbo, but try proving to a judge that Marriott will owe you money if your dollar investment depreciates. You'd be laughed right out of Court because the fact is, only usage is guaranteed.

It isn't only about the math, and all developer purchasers aren't hoodwinked. We went in to the sales presentation armed with one of those Timeshare Resales (or whatever it was) magazines, after I'd lurked around TUG for a while, and knew exactly how much depreciation a developer purchase suffers. Our questions focused on usage, and whether the opportunity existed for developer and external resale purchasers to be subject to different rules, that's it. We knew we wanted to continue to vacation on Hilton Head for many years in a style similar to the oceanfront condos we'd been renting for a few years, but we didn't want to have to search every year for a rental or be subject to what were then more than 12% rental cost increases each year. We knew our financial future couldn't withstand a waterfront condo purchase but Marriott's prices worked for us. At the time we bought SurfWatch there was very limited inventory on the resale market - only one Gold oceanvista 3BR that was listed for $1K less than developer price, and no Platinum oceanside 3BR. At the time we bought Barony, I saw only three Gold oceanfront units on the resale market during the 3-4 months that our rep was waiting on one to become available - two of them were within a couple thousand of developer pricing, one was higher.

Purchasing direct worked for us because we limited our choices to very specific weeks. We weren't looking for the best bargain to save some money, we were looking for the best weeks to fit our vacation lifestyle. I would (after this economic crisis passes) still purchase direct if ever we're in the market again, because our Marriott ownership has been exactly as promised by our sales rep.

I agree with kjd and expect usage from our timeshares, not dollar value.

 

[DanCali]

Therefore it makes sense that one should assume that a timeshare will be worthless when you stop using it.

If you hold this point of view it really doesn't matter what Marriott has in store for it's owners.

But again, Dan, you're reducing your timeshare purchase to a dollar value - that simply isn't the only value associated with it! It's cute to say that Marriott's contract provisions are simply CYA mumbo-jumbo, but try proving to a judge that Marriott will owe you money if your dollar investment depreciates. You'd be laughed right out of Court because the fact is, only usage is guaranteed.

It isn't only about the math, and all developer purchasers aren't hoodwinked. We went in to the sales presentation armed with one of those Timeshare Resales (or whatever it was) magazines, after I'd lurked around TUG for a while, and knew exactly how much depreciation a developer purchase suffers. Our questions focused on usage, and whether the opportunity existed for developer and external resale purchasers to be subject to different rules, that's it. We knew we wanted to continue to vacation on Hilton Head for many years in a style similar to the oceanfront condos we'd been renting for a few years, but we didn't want to have to search every year for a rental or be subject to what were then more than 12% rental cost increases each year. We knew our financial future couldn't withstand a waterfront condo purchase but Marriott's prices worked for us. At the time we bought SurfWatch there was very limited inventory on the resale market - only one Gold oceanvista 3BR that was listed for $1K less than developer price, and no Platinum oceanside 3BR. At the time we bought Barony, I saw only three Gold oceanfront units on the resale market during the 3-4 months that our rep was waiting on one to become available - two of them were within a couple thousand of developer pricing, one was higher.

Purchasing direct worked for us because we limited our choices to very specific weeks. We weren't looking for the best bargain to save some money, we were looking for the best weeks to fit our vacation lifestyle. I would (after this economic crisis passes) still purchase direct if ever we're in the market again, because our Marriott ownership has been exactly as promised by our sales rep.

I agree with kjd and expect usage from our timeshares, not dollar value.

Those are fair points, especially if a developer purchase is informed.

But I still disagree with the assertions that one should assume by default that a timeshare depreciates to zero. If you make that assumption then buying retail or even resale rarely makes financial sense (unless you pay close to zero and manage to extract value). More often than not you'd simply be better off renting under that assumption.

 

[SueDonJ]

Those are fair points, especially if a developer purchase is informed.

But I still disagree with the assertions that one should assume by default that a timeshare depreciates to zero. If you make that assumption then buying retail or even resale rarely makes financial sense (unless you pay close to zero and manage to extract value). More often than not you'd simply be better off renting under that assumption.

I can't speak for kjd, but I've never said that I expect my weeks to depreciate to zero. (Well, okay, maybe fifty years from now, but not anytime soon ...) There would be dollar value in our weeks if we listed them for resale, definitely. But we couldn't get back what we paid for them, no. And I'm thankful that I was never led to believe that we could. I'm not naive, it's obvious there are developer purchasers who were hoodwinked. But I think also that Buyer Beware should fit into the equation somewhere, and it shocks me the number of direct buyers who do not know what they're buying. For that matter, there are resale buyers who don't know what they've bought! IMO, it's more financially irresponsible to not know what you're buying, than to choose to buy direct over resale.

 

[Clemson Fan]

I agree with you that this thread was started as a practical joke, but I disagree on who the perpetrator is. This is my take on the thread:

Disgruntled Kolina sales rep got tired of prospective buyers telling him/her about TUG and buying re-sale. Disgrunteld Kolina sales rep joins TUG and starts a thread asking if the information he/she heard from "reputable" sales rep at Kolina concerning resale buyers being snubbed by Marriott when new internal system is put in place is true. Havoc ensues and disgruntled Kolina sales rep smiles and goes back to trying to sell full priced TS.

Am I right? Who knows, but since the OP has only made 2 posts, both in this thread, I think it's a pretty good guess. I thought it was fishy when it started, and I still do. I had a sales presentation at Shadow Ridge a couple of weeks ago, and when asked point blank about an internal trading system, my rep said "no". Different info coming from a different sales rep made me suspicious of this thread.

Bottom line on internal trading system: only time, and Marriott, will tell.

Cheers!

Bingo! I thought and still think the same thing which is why I've refused to get involved in this thread and have barely skimmed it over.

It's just the same old stuff that's been argued at nauseum many times here, but this time I think it was started by a Marriott practical joker which many people have bit on despite your warning early on.

 

[PerryM]

Bad boy....

If Marriott wants to allow owners to exchange usage among themselves then a simple Point system like I've explained years ago here would do fine. Here's how it works:

Marriott currently has rental prices for every unit, size, and date - that's their business to rent rooms to folks. Simply make 1 Point equal to 1 US dollar and you have an instant internal exchange system that is absolutely fair. You simply look up the rental rate for your unit and if you like the Points deposit the unit into the new system and get the rental Points instead of dollars.

Folks can then go "shopping" with their Points to rent other units - simple as pie.

This is NOT what Marriott has in mind though - it revolves around punishing owners who are bad - those bad boys and girls who bought resale. This will start a war among Marriott owners.

In my Summit Watch there will now be some Good owners and Bad owners - the bad ones are to be punished by not allowing them into the internal exchange program.

Problem is that eventually every unit changes hands - death, taxes, illness, divorce, all force sales of timeshares. Marriott intends to use the new exchange system to punish owners who don't do what is in the best interests of Marriott; screw the owner.

And at Summit Watch Marriott simply cleans the toilets. Go figure...

Well off to Maui and probably a tour of MOC and hopefully 15k of MRPs.

 

[dioxide45]

Bingo! I thought and still think the same thing which is why I've refused to get involved in this thread and have barely skimmed it over.

It's just the same old stuff that's been argued at nauseum many times here, but this time I think it was started by a Marriott practical joker which many people have bit on despite your warning early on.

Strangely the original post was actually about USE RULES, not changes to how someone would exchange their week. There was never mention of an internal exchange system in the original post.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree with you that this thread was started as a practical joke, but I disagree on who the perpetrator is. This is my take on the thread:

Disgruntled Kolina sales rep got tired of prospective buyers telling him/her about TUG and buying re-sale. Disgrunteld Kolina sales rep joins TUG and starts a thread asking if the information he/she heard from "reputable" sales rep at Kolina concerning resale buyers being snubbed by Marriott when new internal system is put in place is true. Havoc ensues and disgruntled Kolina sales rep smiles and goes back to trying to sell full priced TS.

Am I right? Who knows, but since the OP has only made 2 posts, both in this thread, I think it's a pretty good guess. I thought it was fishy when it started, and I still do. I had a sales presentation at Shadow Ridge a couple of weeks ago, and when asked point blank about an internal trading system, my rep said "no". Different info coming from a different sales rep made me suspicious of this thread.

Bottom line on internal trading system: only time, and Marriott, will tell.

Cheers!

Bingo! I thought and still think the same thing which is why I've refused to get involved in this thread and have barely skimmed it over.

It's just the same old stuff that's been argued at nauseum many times here, but this time I think it was started by a Marriott practical joker which many people have bit on despite your warning early on.

But it isn't only one salesperson who has mentioned the rumored internal exchange system, reports from sales staff all over saying similar things are happening more and more frequently. Plus, DaveM was willing to put his TUG reputation on the line when he repeated information he'd received from a trusted Marriott insider - Dave isn't exactly some guy we don't know from Adam.

So sure, it's possible that Marriott has launched an offense against external resales by using the sales staff to spread Chicken Little rumors. Possible, but improbable IMO. Consider that many posters on TUG, thought to be the savviest of savvy timeshare owners, respond to such rumors by running out and buying up resales before any change can be implemented! So there again, it's possible Marriott is deliberately sabotaging its own product, but really not logical.

And so what if an internal points exchange system never comes to fruition? What's the harm in discussing possibilities? I learn something new every time these discussions happen on TUG - doesn't everyone?

 

[SueDonJ]

Strangely the original post was actually about USE RULES, not changes to how someone would exchange their week. There was never mention of an internal exchange system in the original post.

Exchanging IS use. The topic flowed naturally when you think about how many times an internal exchange system has been mentioned by various salespeople, and how many previous threads on TUG have dealt with the subject.

 

[dioxide45]

Exchanging IS use. The topic flowed naturally when you think about how many times an internal exchange system has been mentioned by various salespeople, and how many previous threads on TUG have dealt with the subject.

But the OP specifically mentioned things relating to home resort usage and reservations (priority booking and placement at ones resort). So while exchanging may be part of usage, it was not referenced specifically anywhere in the original post.

 

[dioxide45]

If Marriott wants to allow owners to exchange usage among themselves then a simple Point system like I've explained years ago here would do fine. Here's how it works:

Marriott currently has rental prices for every unit, size, and date - that's their business to rent rooms to folks. Simply make 1 Point equal to 1 US dollar and you have an instant internal exchange system that is absolutely fair. You simply look up the rental rate for your unit and if you like the Points deposit the unit into the new system and get the rental Points instead of dollars.

But how will those poor saps selling weeks in Orlando ever sell another week? They have by far the lowest rental prices.

 

[SueDonJ]

But the OP specifically mentioned things relating to home resort usage and reservations (priority booking and placement at ones resort). So while exchanging may be part of usage, it was not referenced specifically anywhere in the original post.

But do you really think that every thread related to the rumors about something changing this year, are going to be limited to only the OP of each thread? That's what I meant by a natural flow - it's impossible to not bring every aspect of the overall discussion into every related thread. It's sort of like how all those recent Marriott Rewards threads merged into each other, isn't it?

 

[PerryM]

Hello fodder; hello mudder....

But how will those poor saps selling weeks in Orlando ever sell another week? They have by far the lowest rental prices.

The focus will shift to selling Points - the most bang for the buck. If that means selling Summit Watch in Florida then that's exactly what they will do.

In a Points system the currency, Points, means everything. Which Marriott unit generates the most Points for the least money. MFs will play a role here too.

Like I said this is radically different than what Marriott sells now - night and day. The owners will have to go through a HUGE learning curve and some will be winners and some will be losers. To some extent this goes on now with MRPs but that will pale against a vacation club revolving around Points.

And for what? I don't think cornering the exchange fees will make Marriott richer by much. Its a sales gimmick designed to increase Marriott sales and the owners are cannon fodder in this war of new profits.

This Points system will peel back relative worth of all Marriott units like peeling an onion - expect a lot of crying.

 

[mm251]

Maybe just a pawn trying to learn something?

But it isn't only one salesperson who has mentioned the rumored internal exchange system, reports from sales staff all over saying similar things are happening more and more frequently. Plus, DaveM was willing to put his TUG reputation on the line when he repeated information he'd received from a trusted Marriott insider - Dave isn't exactly some guy we don't know from Adam.

So sure, it's possible that Marriott has launched an offense against external resales by using the sales staff to spread Chicken Little rumors. Possible, but improbable IMO. Consider that many posters on TUG, thought to be the savviest of savvy timeshare owners, respond to such rumors by running out and buying up resales before any change can be implemented! So there again, it's possible Marriott is deliberately sabotaging its own product, but really not logical.

And so what if an internal points exchange system never comes to fruition? What's the harm in discussing possibilities? I learn something new every time these discussions happen on TUG - doesn't everyone?

RE OP. I did consider before the original post that I may well be a pawn to a Marriott sabotage plan. More information was needed regardless. I have learned much from the threads. Thanks to all.

 

[KathyPet]

I guess the thing that bothers me is that in many cases Marriott is not giving their current owners any other "out" of their timeshares except to list on the secondary market. Marriott will not accept a unit to resell until the original sales are exhausted. In a large resort that can take years and years to achieve and while that time period passes if a owner needs to sell their unit due to divorce, financial reasons, death or any other reasons they have no choice but to offer it on the resale market at greatly reduced prices from the Marriott price. To then turn around and further punish these sellers by treating the potential purchasers of these units as second class owners and giving them less than a full retail purchaser only further serves to reduce the price that the original owner is going to get when Marriott won't sell it for them anyway. Doesn't seem quite right to me.

 

[Dave M]

Those are fair points, especially if a developer purchase is informed.

But I still disagree with the assertions that one should assume by default that a timeshare depreciates to zero. If you make that assumption then buying retail or even resale rarely makes financial sense (unless you pay close to zero and manage to extract value). More often than not you'd simply be better off renting under that assumption.

I agree. Buying most timeshares doesn't make financial sense. So what? We make thousands of financial decisions in our lifetime that don't make financial sense. Buying that more expensive car, the bigger TV, the better quality of meat, the brand-name grocery product, the "in" clothes for our kids, the once (or twice or many times) in a lifetime expensive vacation, etc. We buy many things, including timeshares, because we want to and we can. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[dougp26364]

This is just my theory - everyone has their own:

It's insane to completely change the way you sell a product when the company and country are hurting - the risk is HUGE and the rewards are dubious at best.

The instant Marriott introduces a Point Based Exchange System it simply becomes a copycat of Wyndham - whoopee!

The salesreps will stop selling fixed units/weeks/seasons at fixed Marriott resorts to a Point Based Vacation System. The salesreps will start to sell Points and dump fixed seasons at fixed resorts.

This is a HUGE change in sales and a HUGE risk. We all know that screwups will happen and owners will have to go through a HUGE learning curve - all while the resale value of their investment in Marriott is barfing by the side of the road.

It's simply lunacy and no grown-up at Marriott will introduce this until real estate is making a healthy recovery. Sales managers and the such are always selling things they don't have - it's an occupational hazard.

But it seems like our entire country has gone insane, so who knows.

Why Wyndham? Why not Hilton or maybe a trust based system like DRI or Bluegreen?

I think the hole in your boat is assuming that the majority of owners buying from the developer are informed consumers. I don't believe that's the case. I really don't see this as having a major impact on Marriott developer sales unless Marriott believes that they're losing business to developers that do have a points based system. Maybe Marriott salesmen are having trouble competing with points based systems like Hilton's, Starwoods and DVC's.

At any rate, as I see it, the typical developer sale is some tourist couple fresh off the street that doesn't have a clue about timesharing. That demographic won't care what Marriott did before any change. That's because they won't have a clue how Marriott did it before.

I just don't see this as being as big a deal as some are making it out to be. We've owned since 1998. The only constant has been change. I suspect Marriott will make some sort of change if only because so many other systems are going points based and they have to compete with those system.

 

[JimIg23]

even with points, owners are going to get first crack at their home resort. I doubt anyone who is not a resort owner with first dibs will be able to ever find a summer week at NCV or HH or HI after the owners reserve. Even if say a NCV owners wants to go to HI, they are still going to secure a summer week first to make sure they have something. At least you have a shot with II and a trade.