Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[timeos2]

Well, let me explain. If there ends up being two distinct systems. The points system for those that opt in to the new internal program, those weeks obtained from points users won't be available in II for those that opt to stay with the old system. So for those trying to trade in II, there will indeed be fewer weeks available, thus less inventory.

OK - if you are trading through II and a different exchange company gets the time (already possible) then the II inventory will be impacted negatively. But II already has no guaranteed access (it is the owners choice each year to deposit or not) and then they further reduce availability by giving preference to certain groups prior to general availability. So the average amount of available inventory may fall for II but it was never guaranteed, always optional and very hit and miss. If you depend on that for your trades it was never reliable and may become less so. One of the big advantages to any internal system will be the absolute availability of inventory (it is usually committed for XX years or even forever in any points based system) vs the hit and miss of weeks. That alone makes it far more reliable and easier to get exactly what you want than weeks/II can.

 

[DanCali]

They still offer a 20% discount but the incentive will change tomorrow and there may be a price increase as that was mentioned too... Some other TUGgers have posted this too and I will find out later this week what the changes are.

All in all I am not any wiser but announcements should be coming soon.

Isn't that always the case that things will change tomorrow unless you buy today? The fun part is actually checking in with the salesperson the next day

 

[DanCali]

One of the big advantages to any internal system will be the absolute availability of inventory (it is usually committed for XX years or even forever in any points based system) vs the hit and miss of weeks. That alone makes it far more reliable and easier to get exactly what you want than weeks/II can.

I'm not sure how you can say this. Take a system like Starwood's... if Harborside and St. John summer week owners were allocated relatively few Staroptions (points) and choose to use or rent their units rather than exchange for a 1BR in Cancun or Hawaii, where would the inventory for Starwood summer exchanges in the Carribean come from? And the very little available inventory is usually gone at 9:01am 8 months out.

I asked an owner services rep one time how often can I call in to check for cancellations and was told I can all as much as I like but should probably stop if I get exasperated or I'd hate my ownership...

In a points system once the good inventory is reserved it is not coming back... Personally, I prefer the current Marriott system where it is virtually guaranteed that good weeks from most resorts will be deposited in II. That's the reason I bought Marriott.

 

[Dean]

OK - if you are trading through II and a different exchange company gets the time (already possible) then the II inventory will be impacted negatively. But II already has no guaranteed access (it is the owners choice each year to deposit or not) and then they further reduce availability by giving preference to certain groups prior to general availability. So the average amount of available inventory may fall for II but it was never guaranteed, always optional and very hit and miss. If you depend on that for your trades it was never reliable and may become less so. One of the big advantages to any internal system will be the absolute availability of inventory (it is usually committed for XX years or even forever in any points based system) vs the hit and miss of weeks. That alone makes it far more reliable and easier to get exactly what you want than weeks/II can.

Plus for high demand inventory, it's already ONLY available to other Marriott owners so you're simply talking who gets the available Marriott inventory among the various Marriott owners. I would expect a significant reduction of demand in II as well as a reduction in inventory. Whether the reduction in each is balanced is the question. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the available high end inventory is reduced less than the demand is reduced. The reality is we really won't know because we don't really know where we're starting other than a few limited pieces of info related to exchanges we've gotten in the past and what we've seen others report they got.

Ultimately I suspect i'll depend on how any new system works including who has access. It is entirely possible that the order of preference for a new system will change and those at the top of the trading ladder may not be with a new system. Still, those of us willing to invest time and well placed dollars to get ahead will likely still be able to do so. It might be like when Fairfield changed over from weeks to points. Initially it seemed there was no impact but currently being a fixed week owner in that system is quite a bit different than being a points owner.

 

[Dean]

In a points system once the good inventory is reserved it is not coming back...

I'm not sure that's the case at all. I own 4 different points systems and they are all different. With some inventory opens up all the time, with others once it's gone it's basically gone.

 

[taffy19]

Prices did go up today

Isn't that always the case that things will change tomorrow unless you buy today? The fun part is actually checking in with the salesperson the next day

The sales department at the Maui Ocean Club wasn't kidding when our sales lady told us on Monday that prices were going up later this week. I got a new price sheet today so have the increased prices right in front of me.

Marriott must feel confident that they will sell their limited inventory on or before their projected sell out date. They were busy with tours today so I didn't ask any questions if other resorts had price increases too.

 

[timeos2]

Doesn't mean a thing

The sales department at the Maui Ocean Club wasn't kidding when our sales lady told us on Monday that prices were going up later this week. I got a new price sheet today so have the increased prices right in front of me.

Marriott must feel confident that they will sell their limited inventory on or before their projected sell out date. They were busy with tours today so I didn't ask any questions if other resorts had price increases too.

Is there a more meaningless number than Developers timeshare prices sheets? I don't think so. It is all smoke & mirrors and can change in a moment.

IF you really wanted to buy retail and offered "yesterday's" price (or even last month's) I will guarantee you will be given the "deal". Those prices mean nothing.

 

[Fredm]

Is there a more meaningless number than Developers timeshare prices sheets? I don't think so. It is all smoke & mirrors and can change in a moment.

IF you really wanted to buy retail and offered "yesterday's" price (or even last month's) I will guarantee you will be given the "deal". Those prices mean nothing.

I have never heard of a single instance of Marriott selling for less than the published price. They may tinker with the incentives, but not the price.

 

[scrapngen]

I have never heard of a single instance of Marriott selling for less than the published price. They may tinker with the incentives, but not the price.

Several people here can tell you that for the last number of months, Marriott has been selling for 20% off the listed (published) price. We got our 51, 52 fixed weeks that way at Waiohai... (I'm not bragging that it was a good deal, but they are harder to come by so we went developer...)

Just sayin

 

[Fredm]

Several people here can tell you that for the last number of months, Marriott has been selling for 20% off the listed (published) price. We got our 51, 52 fixed weeks that way at Waiohai... (I'm not bragging that it was a good deal, but they are harder to come by so we went developer...)

Just sayin

Right. The 20% discount WAS the published purchase price. Marriott charged everyone the same price. They did not negotiate, or sell the same thing, at the same time, to different buyers at different prices.

My comment was in response to this statement:
"IF you really wanted to buy retail and offered "yesterday's" price (or even last month's) I will guarantee you will be given the "deal". Those prices mean nothing."

 

[scrapngen]

Right. The 20% discount WAS the published purchase price. Marriott charged everyone the same price. They did not negotiate, or sell the same thing, at the same time, to different buyers at different prices.

OK, see where you're coming from...but it was a lower price than before, and the 20% was not showing on the listed sheets if you were to ask what the prices were for any given resort.

 

[m61376]

OK, see where you're coming from...but it was a lower price than before, and the 20% was not showing on the listed sheets if you were to ask what the prices were for any given resort.

No, but they were an advertised "special promotion" and available for a limited time to everyone. Marriott keeps the prices stable between customers buying during the same time period. Until the economic downturn, special sales were unheard of and the prices only went up. What did vary from week to week were the incentives, generally the number of points, or perhaps a bonus week, etc..

 

[taffy19]

Talking about devaluation in the original post

We found out this week that the MOC has been devalued from a category 7 to a category 6. All Hawaiian resorts are category 6 now because less people are requesting a hotel on the Islands.

When we checked in last Saturday, the front desk told us that the original resort is 99% full and the new towers 98%. The majority are owners. Interesting is that the State or county doesn't like timeshare owners and sock it to us but we are the people who support their economy right now.

 

[Dean]

OK, see where you're coming from...but it was a lower price than before, and the 20% was not showing on the listed sheets if you were to ask what the prices were for any given resort.

True, but I don't recall a single instance where they cut the price to an individual other than maybe if they were already in negotiations and the prices went up in the interim but Marriott is fairly consistent on their pricing, unlike many timeshare systems.

 

[LAR]

Marriott & Interval - Change coming in June?

[merged]


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Hello,

I just got back from Grande Vista. During their sales pitch, the rep explained that Marriott and II were 'parting ways' in June and that Marriott was going to handle all the trades internally so as to capture all the exchange fees etc. This was an attempt to devalue the resale market and increase the value that converting deposits to points might offer.

Did I miss something?!!

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Hello,

I just got back from Grande Vista. During their sales pitch, the rep explained that Marriott and II were 'parting ways' in June and that Marriott was going to handle all the trades internally so as to capture all the exchange fees etc. This was an attempt to devalue the resale market and increase the value that converting deposits to points might offer.

Did I miss something?!!

Did you see this long thread ?

 

[LAR]

Jeez, where are the Cliff Notes!

 

[winger]

We found out this week that the MOC has been devalued from a category 7 to a category 6. All Hawaiian resorts are category 6 now because less people are requesting a hotel on the Islands.

When we checked in last Saturday, the front desk told us that the original resort is 99% full and the new towers 98%. The majority are owners. Interesting is that the State or county doesn't like timeshare owners and sock it to us but we are the people who support their economy right now.

The following four are listed as downgraded to a category 5 !
Marriott's Kauai Beach Club
Kauai Marriott Resort
Waikiki Marriott hotel
Waiohai Beach Club

Also, whenever government gets involved, usually something does not sound reasonable (to say it a nice way).

 

[mlpmd56]

Points????

Ok, I have resisted this so far, but have now decided to add my 2 cents to the over 800 replies. Ouch! Anyway, I bought a Marriott Kauai Beach club ocean front for a killer price on ebay maybe 6 months ago. I did this with full knowledge that things could change, Marriott does things that adversely affect owners, etc. I love to go to Hawaii twice a year, so to me this was a no brainer as I love being ocean front. Conjecture being what it is, we have NO IDEA what is really going to happen in June, if anything. BUT, with Marriott's penchant for downgrading categories, devaluing points, etc., I wonder why anyone would sign up for a new program when it is guaranteed to be worth less in the future.....I bought my week to use, or maybe to trade to the Caribbean on occasion, so I feel pretty safe. From listening to everyone complain about how their points are worth less all the time, I can't imagine I would convert even if it were free! And as a resale owner, I am sure they will want to ding me significantly if I would sign up. In any case, if I am "forced" to use my week every year, so be it! Or I can always reserve and rent it to someone else, then use the cash whenever/wherever I want. Since I bought for so low a price, I am not that worried. However, I really do empathize with those who paid high developer prices. Marcy

 

[Swice]

point values

Just as a point of information... Marriott Rewards points are currently points to be used at "hotels" or redeemed for other "valuable" prizes like toasters and tv's. For the sake of discussion, let's call them "hotel points."

Yes, Marriott did change the "values" of some hotel properties... examples in Hawaii and Paris.

It's my understanding Marriott assigns hotel values based on a number of things... including the number of free nights redeemed.

Hawaii and Paris hotels did not give away as many "free" nights last year because of the slump of travel (economy). You can bet your last Marriott point, the hotels that were "de-valued" will quickly INCREASE in value when more people start redeeming free nights at those properties again. The change in values had nothing to do with timeshares.

It remains to be seen if we start talking about Marriott TIMESHARE points in June and if/how those TIMESHARE points will be folded into the Marriott Rewards (hotel points) program.

 

[taffy19]

i have a feeling that MRPs and timeshare points are going to mix with each other as they were mentioning to us of having additional choices even at the front desk so they are realigning the points with each other, I believe.

People, who convert, may stay several days at a resort and several days at a hotel but how are they going to combine this successfully with people, who want to stay for a whole week? This must be a difficult task with two different groups of timeshare owners as well as MRPs' people too unless the week owners have a head start in making reservations.

Hopefully, we will know soon but people who bought for use (like Marcy at the KBC) in the right season and with the desired view, should not be affected either way. She was a smart consumer but will the Marriott give the best oceanfront views to the person with the biggest point package as they will control everything? If view is not important then this is no issue.

Just as a point of information... Marriott Rewards points are currently points to be used at "hotels" or redeemed for other "valuable" prizes like toasters and tv's. For the sake of discussion, let's call them "hotel points."

Yes, Marriott did change the "values" of some hotel properties... examples in Hawaii and Paris.

It's my understanding Marriott assigns hotel values based on a number of things... including the number of free nights redeemed.

Hawaii and Paris hotels did not give away as many "free" nights last year because of the slump of travel (economy). You can bet your last Marriott point, the hotels that were "de-valued" will quickly INCREASE in value when more people start redeeming free nights at those properties again. The change in values had nothing to do with timeshares.

It remains to be seen if we start talking about Marriott TIMESHARE points in June and if/how those TIMESHARE points will be folded into the Marriott Rewards (hotel points) program.

 

[AceValenta]

This one makes me laugh...

[merged]


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Hello,

I just got back from Grande Vista. During their sales pitch, the rep explained that Marriott and II were 'parting ways' in June and that Marriott was going to handle all the trades internally so as to capture all the exchange fees etc. This was an attempt to devalue the resale market and increase the value that converting deposits to points might offer.

Did I miss something?!!

What is the saying, "If their lips are moving, they must be lying!"

From the March 10th Business Week:

MIAMI--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Interval International, a prominent worldwide provider of vacation services and an operating segment of Interval Leisure Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: IILG), today announced the renewal of its master affiliation agreement with Marriott Vacation Club International, the timeshare division of Marriott International, Inc. (NYSE:MAR). The multi-year agreement extends the relationship first established in 1990 between two leaders in the shared ownership industry, each highly regarded for their commitment to quality, exemplary customer service, and innovation.

 

[PerryM]

Yes butt....

This one makes me laugh...




What is the saying, "If their lips are moving, they must be lying!"

From the March 10th Business Week:

MIAMI--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Interval International, a prominent worldwide provider of vacation services and an operating segment of Interval Leisure Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: IILG), today announced the renewal of its master affiliation agreement with Marriott Vacation Club International, the timeshare division of Marriott International, Inc. (NYSE:MAR). The multi-year agreement extends the relationship first established in 1990 between two leaders in the shared ownership industry, each highly regarded for their commitment to quality, exemplary customer service, and innovation.

But that just means that Marriott renewed the old agreement which has a clause in it which allows Marriott to offer an internal exchange system anytime they want to their owners.

The old 24-day Marriott window is probably there and hopefully at the end of the 24-days folks like me get anything left before it goes to II. (I own a Gold Summit Watch)

Just remember folks that if Marriott wanted a true internal exchange system all they had to do was make 1 little change to the new contract:

24 -> 120

But that's not what Marriott has in mind is it?

 

[Latravel]

... I really do empathize with those who paid high developer prices. Marcy

No need to empathize... of all groups represented here, those who purchased from the developer are probably the most protected.

 

[Latravel]

This one makes me laugh...




What is the saying, "If their lips are moving, they must be lying!"

From the March 10th Business Week:

MIAMI--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Interval International, a prominent worldwide provider of vacation services and an operating segment of Interval Leisure Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: IILG), today announced the renewal of its master affiliation agreement with Marriott Vacation Club International, the timeshare division of Marriott International, Inc. (NYSE:MAR). The multi-year agreement extends the relationship first established in 1990 between two leaders in the shared ownership industry, each highly regarded for their commitment to quality, exemplary customer service, and innovation.

How do you know the original agreement that was renewed, didn't include the right to terminate at any time? Didn't include a clause that Marriott could make changes to suit changing business needs?