Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[ricki999]

I can't say I'm impressed at all with this ebay seller: vaca4life2

In this recent auction, the ad listed
Those weeks are "white" season per Marriott's calendar.

Here is the Q & A from that auction, related to that inaccuracy:


I just don't like the smug attitude that I perceive. Personally I'd stay away from that seller.

On a related note to you DSV-II owners, is the Special Assessment information accurate?

$373.25 is the amount of the 2010 Replacement Reserve. I am unaware of any Special Assesments.

 

[thinze3]

I can't say I'm impressed at all with this ebay seller: vaca4life2

In this recent auction, the ad listed
Those weeks are "white" season per Marriott's calendar.

Here is the Q & A from that auction, related to that inaccuracy:

I just don't like the smug attitude that I perceive. Personally I'd stay away from that seller.

On a related note to you DSV-II owners, is the Special Assessment information accurate?

I have not seen any special assessment announcements.

 

[rfb813]

This was posted on the Grand Vista owners group on Yahoo. Sounds like Marriott is starting to open up with their plans.

"Thanks, I've distributed this to the other Board members and I'll bring it up at the Presidents Meeting and at the Board meeting on April 19.
I've also asked MRHC to provide some usage numbers.

MVCI is giving us a preliminary look at the new internal exchange/points program and I've asked them to discuss whether the Florida Club would still be relevant. Perhaps its an anachronism and we'll find out. If it is, your Board will address it on April 19 at our Spring meeting.

Jim Shonkwiler
President, Grande Vista of Orlando Condominium, Inc."

 

[ricki999]

The $373.25 Reserve Fee is actually for DSVI not DSVII

 

[ricki999]

This was posted on the Grand Vista owners group on Yahoo. Sounds like Marriott is starting to open up with their plans.

"Thanks, I've distributed this to the other Board members and I'll bring it up at the Presidents Meeting and at the Board meeting on April 19.
I've also asked MRHC to provide some usage numbers.

MVCI is giving us a preliminary look at the new internal exchange/points program and I've asked them to discuss whether the Florida Club would still be relevant. Perhaps its an anachronism and we'll find out. If it is, your Board will address it on April 19 at our Spring meeting.

Jim Shonkwiler
President, Grande Vista of Orlando Condominium, Inc."

Thanks for this update. Hopefully the details will be available soon.

 

[timeos2]

Why hasn't anyone said anything (wink wink nudge nudge)

Thanks for this update. Hopefully the details will be available soon.

Huh, a points system is planned? Who'd a thunk THAT might be on the horizon soon?

 

[ricki999]

Huh, a points system is planned? Who'd a thunk THAT might be on the horizon soon?

Do you have any of the preliminary program information the Board Members are being given a look at?

 

[RandR]

Huh, a points system is planned? Who'd a thunk THAT might be on the horizon soon?

John, that is funny!!:hysterical:

 

[mikeemis]

I am at Surfwatch this week. Here is a sampling of what I gleaned from a sales rep. concerning the upcoming points system. Buy now and have the option of using either program. Future buyers will only be offered the points system. Much of this others have already indicated. I was told the season and view would be very important with the new arrangement in regards to trading. It will enable Marriott to break the week down into segments. Also Marriott would like to go into some smaller markets and also more expensive locations, such as New York City. The normal Marriott resort needs at least 300 units to break even. 300 units in NYC would not be practical. If they were to build a boutique property there or in some other high dollar location it would open up many more options for Marriott.

 

[rfb813]

Quote:
Originally Posted by timeos2
Huh, a points system is planned? Who'd a thunk THAT might be on the horizon soon?

John, that is funny!!




While we have discussed a point system for many years this appears to be the first time a Marriott resort board will be getting a prestentation from Marriott regarding the program. All the info in the past ha been conjecture based on rumor and/or unconfirmed statements from sales people. Dave, have you heard anything more?

 

[ricki999]

QUOTE=rfb813;883427]Quote:
Originally Posted by timeos2
Huh, a points system is planned? Who'd a thunk THAT might be on the horizon soon?

John, that is funny!!


While we have discussed a point system for many years this appears to be the first time a Marriott resort board will be getting a prestentation from Marriott regarding the program. All the info in the past ha been conjecture based on rumor and/or unconfirmed statements from sales people. Dave, have you heard anything more?[/QUOTE]



Hey John, doesn't look like you own Marriott, out of curiosity, what's your dog in this fight? Hope you bet the house on a points system, going out on such a limb and such.

 

[timeos2]

Great thread, poorly named

QUOTE=rfb813;883427]Quote:


Hey John, doesn't look like you own Marriott, out of curiosity, what's your dog in this fight? Hope you bet the house on a points system, going out on such a limb and such.

Nope, no Marriott ownership (nearly bought into Manor Club Williamsburg as we really loved it but decided it was easier/cheaper to just trade or rent when we really "needed" it).

Keeping an eye on the thread/topic as a very active Board member at other (non-Marriott) resorts and because I am enthralled by the level of what appears to an outsider as self delusion owners have regarding the value of what they own and who/what looks out for them. The incredible amount of blind faith owners tend to place in groups such as Marriott or DVC any developer group to supposedly maintain resale value and/or hold fees down is a mystery to me.

If they pay any attention at all they would come to recognize that the sole reason the developers exist and come up with these exchange schemes, or ROFR, or ongoing management of sold out resorts is to make money. Period. Depending on them rather than your fellow owners who volunteer to be the eyes and ears on a Owner controlled Board to operate and maintain the resorts is a big error. They will pay dearly for that misplaced trust and get little or nothing out of it when the final accounting is done.

A developer given the privilege of a management contract should answer to the Board as would any other contractor and not be there by threat or well written (for the Developer, not the owners) documents/contracts that keeps them in power against the owners wishes. If they do the job well and at reasonable rates the owners will be proud to have them and support the resort. If they don't they should be subject to the same dismissal as any other contractor would be without requiring the Association to go broke fighting a legal battle to oust them.

The whole discussion is interesting on a number of levels. It covers so many issues as well as options. I only wish more owners would show the interest in the Board/Association operation at their resort(s) that has been shown here regarding the likely new exchange offering from Marriott. They would be surprised what they might find and ow they can influence things if they did. The title isn't really right but it sure has manged to get attention.

 

[taffy19]

We are at our home resort in the Lahaina tower (MMO) now and it's SO NICE to be back in paradise. My first question was "What's up with the new point system that every one is talking about?". This person has worked here over 20 years. His answer was that the marketing department and sales people are the last ones to know just like someone posted here. He did say that there are going to be important meetings between now and June and that every one is going to be retrained.

We will have an update on Monday and hope to find out more.

 

[dioxide45]

What potentially bothers me about a points exchange program is that it will reduce inventory in the weeks system that we bought in to. We bought a weeks system to use weeks, not break up our stays and go for a few days here or there or long weekends.

If there are people wanting points and they hold Marriott's, they bought in to the wrong program. Marriott has been a weeks based system for 25 years. If you wanted long weekends or short stays, then you should have bought elsewhere. Expecting Marriott to go to points and flexible stay options isn't fair to those who bought in to what the system was, a weeks based system.

If this really comes to fruition, which I still highly doubt, it will be interesting to see how much inventory still remains in weeks. If it makes it harder for us to use the weeks based system we bought in to or we can no longer us it to get the value we currently do, we will dump it and go elsewhere. Or perhaps we will go no where and just travel like the average consumer.

 

[GaryDouglas]

"What's up with the new point system that every one is talking about?"

My contact at MOC/MMO said a few weeks ago that they should be selling out (I assume the Napili units), for the most part, by June. Prior to that, their staff would go through training in preparation of the new system. After that, no more week units will be available.

 

[timeos2]

Why are points trades worse than weeks? They aren't!

What potentially bothers me about a points exchange program is that it will reduce inventory in the weeks system that we bought in to. We bought a weeks system to use weeks, not break up our stays and go for a few days here or there or long weekends.

I'm interested in what exactly the difference in available inventory is if the week goes to II (or RCI or TPI or SFX,etc) - maybe broken into two, small 1 BR deposits that greatly devalue the unit IMO - or if the week goes to points and gets broken into 3/4 days of use? Either way the week is gone for the "regular" weeks user as the owner of that week has used it as they see fit, which is their absolute right. Any points system Marriott decides to offer is just another exchange, but with a different method of deposit and access. The week is no more or less used in points than any other trade. It is still gone from inventory.

 

[dougp26364]

We are at our home resort in the Lahaina tower (MMO) now and it's SO NICE to be back in paradise. My first question was "What's up with the new point system that every one is talking about?". This person has worked here over 20 years. His answer was that the marketing department and sales people are the last ones to know just like someone posted here. He did say that there are going to be important meetings between now and June and that every one is going to be retrained.

We will have an update on Monday and hope to find out more.

And that's what makes this entire thread just speculation. Salesmen don't know anything. They're probably making their assumptions based on rumors within the company and then are using the AP points program to make further assumptions that anything new will be the same.

The only thing that seems to be consistant is that the feeling is there will be some sort of internal exchange program different than the Marriott priorty with Interval. I think that's a safe assumption since so many of the other major timeshare brands have some sort of internal exchange program of there own. Because of that, Marriott may feel they need something to maintain a competitive edge.

The other assumption I think is reasonably safe is that it will be consumer friendly and isn't going to get to far off the road paved by so many other companies. If it's not consumer friendly but only serves Marriott's sales team, it won't be a competitive product and will fail.

It appears to be taking a long time for Marriott to release any change to their reservation program. I'd like to assume that is an indicator that it will be a well thought out program and one worthy of current owners participation.

We have three more visits to Marriott resorts this year. I don't plan on doing an owners update until after Marriott releases some form of official word about any changes to it's product. It will be interesting to see what they propose but, in the end, I'm pretty satisfied with our ownership and exchanges with I.I., even if those exchanges might need to be outside the Marriott system in the future.

 

[m61376]

It appears to be taking a long time for Marriott to release any change to their reservation program. I'd like to assume that is an indicator that it will be a well thought out program and one worthy of current owners participation.

While I agree with most of what you've posted, I do wonder about this, in light of what I can only assume was also a well thought out program- their Asia Pacific points program. We can only hope that their extra time and effort was placed into reconsidering many of the issues with that program, including costs, trading inequities, etc..

I believe that "well thought out program," if introduced on a large scale system-wide, would potentially be disastrous for the brand.

 

[dougp26364]

While I agree with most of what you've posted, I do wonder about this, in light of what I can only assume was also a well thought out program- their Asia Pacific points program. We can only hope that their extra time and effort was placed into reconsidering many of the issues with that program, including costs, trading inequities, etc..

I believe that "well thought out program," if introduced on a large scale system-wide, would potentially be disastrous for the brand.

From what I've been able to decipher about the AP program, for that market, it appears to work rather well. You have to keep in mind that there weren't enough resorts and the owners there had travel habits that didn't fit the profile of the typical American or European tourist. Rather than 7 night vacations they tended to want a couple of days at a time. Couple that with to few resorts and they had to come up with something of value for that market. It appears the AP program, which seems to include hotel stays using their points, works well in that market.

The fear is the assumption that Marriott will try to put the same program in place with American and European owners. I might be wrong in assuming that Marriott understands there's a difference in travel habits but, I'm pretty sure they know there's a difference.

If Marriott was going to use the AP program as a template for everything else, it probably wouldn't take so long to announce any new program. No, I'm betting they realize the difference and have had to spend a good amount of time studying what they think will work best in this market for both their sales goals as well as maintaining owner satisfaction. Owner satisfaction goes a long ways towards selling more units to current owners as well as getting referals from current owners. Surely most of us believe Marriott is smart enough to grasp that basic concept and not torpedo their own success.

Marriott sales persons aren't necessarily so smart. I'm sure more than a few of them look at the AP program and automatically assume it will be the same program rolled out in June (or whenever it comes along). Thus in desperate moments they blurt out idiotic statements trying to make themselves look smart and, at the same time, thinking they might scare someone out of buying resale and buying retail from them. It's not a smart thing to do, I doubt it's sanctioned by Marriott but, if it makes one sale a week, sales managers are more likely than not to turn a blind eye to the practice.

 

[bobcat]

From what I've been able to decipher about the AP program, for that market, it appears to work rather well. You have to keep in mind that there weren't enough resorts and the owners there had travel habits that didn't fit the profile of the typical American or European tourist. Rather than 7 night vacations they tended to want a couple of days at a time. Couple that with to few resorts and they had to come up with something of value for that market. It appears the AP program, which seems to include hotel stays using their points, works well in that market.

The fear is the assumption that Marriott will try to put the same program in place with American and European owners. I might be wrong in assuming that Marriott understands there's a difference in travel habits but, I'm pretty sure they know there's a difference.

If Marriott was going to use the AP program as a template for everything else, it probably wouldn't take so long to announce any new program. No, I'm betting they realize the difference and have had to spend a good amount of time studying what they think will work best in this market for both their sales goals as well as maintaining owner satisfaction. Owner satisfaction goes a long ways towards selling more units to current owners as well as getting referals from current owners. Surely most of us believe Marriott is smart enough to grasp that basic concept and not torpedo their own success.

Marriott sales persons aren't necessarily so smart. I'm sure more than a few of them look at the AP program and automatically assume it will be the same program rolled out in June (or whenever it comes along). Thus in desperate moments they blurt out idiotic statements trying to make themselves look smart and, at the same time, thinking they might scare someone out of buying resale and buying retail from them. It's not a smart thing to do, I doubt it's sanctioned by Marriott but, if it makes one sale a week, sales managers are more likely than not to turn a blind eye to the practice.

June is not far off. I guess we will see what happens. I still say, if owners do not give in their weeks to the program several weeks will not be open for points use.

 

[taffy19]

I don't remember who told me this as I have asked several people already but there was talk of having a third choice now. We have the week long exchange system now plus the MRPs but you would have to give up your whole timeshare week for that as it is today.

The third choice would be that you give up only a part of your week and combine your travel with another partional timeshare week or in combination with a hotel stay which we are doing now but you would have the choice to make the timeshare stay less than a week which may be ideal if you are short of vacation time which may be the case for many people but not for TUG members.

It may be better than we all anticipate and certainly more flexible but it will cost more money so is profitable for the Marriott. I am curious what the company will roll out so will listen to their new plan if and when it comes out.

 

[AceValenta]

The other question, do they make you give up your deeded unit? If they do, does it expire at a certain date?

 

[taffy19]

My contact at MOC/MMO said a few weeks ago that they should be selling out (I assume the Napili units), for the most part, by June. Prior to that, their staff would go through training in preparation of the new system. After that, no more week units will be available.

This is exactly what our sales lady told us too yesterday and that no more deeds will be sold after that. I even asked her how would they be so sure that the whole inventory would be sold by then. I asked her too if that meant that it will be points only but she had no details or would not discuss it. I have a feeling that changes are coming.

We asked her to see one of the oceanfront units at the main resort and were blown away by the view and the roomy balconies. This resort sells itself as we noticed some people buying or reading a contract. They sell other locations from here.

They still offer a 20% discount but the incentive will change tomorrow and there may be a price increase as that was mentioned too. Some other TUGgers have posted this too and I will find out later this week what the changes are.

All in all I am not any wiser but announcements should be coming soon.

 

[dougp26364]

June is not far off. I guess we will see what happens. I still say, if owners do not give in their weeks to the program several weeks will not be open for points use.

And you may very well be correct. It's one of the reasons I don't see Marriott adopting the AP program for the U.S. and European ownerships. The other reason is that, since the AP program is already on the table, it just wouldn't take so long to introduce it into the remaining markets. Basically, my opinion is, that if they try to introduce a similar plan, it will fail and, like you're pointing out, there won't be enough units in the program for it to be effective for a long time.

Even though June has been tossed out as the introduction date, I don't believe there's really any firm evidence that will really happen. Something a salesman said while sitting at the round table doesn't qualify for me as evidence. I'm curious, a little anxious to see something new but, I'm not holding my breath at this point in time.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm interested in what exactly the difference in available inventory is if the week goes to II (or RCI or TPI or SFX,etc) - maybe broken into two, small 1 BR deposits that greatly devalue the unit IMO - or if the week goes to points and gets broken into 3/4 days of use? Either way the week is gone for the "regular" weeks user as the owner of that week has used it as they see fit, which is their absolute right. Any points system Marriott decides to offer is just another exchange, but with a different method of deposit and access. The week is no more or less used in points than any other trade. It is still gone from inventory.

Well, let me explain. If there ends up being two distinct systems. The points system for those that opt in to the new internal program, those weeks obtained from points users won't be available in II for those that opt to stay with the old system. So for those trying to trade in II, there will indeed be fewer weeks available, thus less inventory.