Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[timeos2]

Hey buy here, get mucho points & go anywhere!

Marco Island Platinum will never sell out without pts help

An investment they already made and desperately need to sell. Another reason to roll out points.

 

[PerryM]

The insanity of the masses....

I don't see Marriott ever taking title to a week - they will simply confiscate usage for so many years - my guess is 3 years.

Marriott will make joining the new exchange system very enticing - so enticing that the "One time special - these conversion goodies are ONLY available this week and will never be offered again" will be simply too much for the normal Marriott owner - they will convert in droves.

 

[timeos2]

The sheep will line up for the shearing. And it may not even hurt

I don't see Marriott ever taking title to a week - they will simply confiscate usage for so many years - my guess is 3 years.

Marriott will make joining the new exchange system very enticing - so enticing that the "One time special - these conversion goodies are ONLY available this week and will never be offered again" will be simply too much for the normal Marriott owner - they will convert in droves.

Mark this down. Perry & I agree 100% on this one. Points systems have features that sell themselves and many owners are easily swayed to buy in to the promises. If they roll out even a half way decent system it will be extremely successful. There are far more "normal" Marriott owners then there are truly informed Marriott owners. The normal accept what they are told as gospel and willingly by in.

 

[dougp26364]

...........
Ok, want to know what I get a good laugh at . I sold very few crappy weeks ie. Gold in Park City, Bronze anywhere etc. They whole II system is based on like for like so except for 60 days or less, you should not be able to get a Platinum week with a Bronze or low demand Gold week. Everyone who bought these crappy weeks resale, knows that but figured out a way to get them anyway. Well now it's time to pay the pipper. The system will be tilted to the advantgae of the higher demanded weeks which is should be. As my daughter would say " oh snap "..........

This makes me very happy that we bought Silver season at Ocean Point because we wanted to use that particular season. The only problem is, we purchased a 3 bedroom with the thought that we'd eventually need the additional room as the kids grew up and had kids of their own. Now here we are, 10 years down the road with the kids at 30 and 27, still no grandchildren and niether yet ready to take vacations and travel.

I don't see myself putting this week into any points based program unless there's some advantage to us putting our Platinum Grand Chateau week in and putting our Ocean Pointe week in along with it.

Time will tell and everything depends on what the actual program will be.

 

[dougp26364]

IMO, this new system will primarily appeal to those who purchased platinum weeks with the purpose of frequent exchanging, or who bought in destinations that are more expensive to travel to on a regular basis. Why would a platinum week owner at Ocean Pointe who uses their week 50%+ of the time want to buy into a point system with no home resort advantage? The whole concept of purchasing where you want to vacation goes away. Why own a timeshare at all?

This is exactly why I think much of this is needless speculation and scary possiblity rather than what will be reality once we see the new program. There are far to many points systems out there with happy owners who enjoy their points based reseravtions systems to believe Marriott would screw this up so badly it would be one of the worst systems ever conceived.

The only points based systems I'm aware of that have no home resort advantage are trust based ownerships where you own an interst in a trust and not a deeded week at a particular resort. Even those still have a home resort advantage giving members in a particular trust a one month jump on all other points members. After that deeded week owners get a two month jump on anyone else wanting to reserve using points.

So, are we saying that Marriott will no longer sell deeded weeks? Are we saying that they'll go go some sort of trust based ownership where a member buys into a group of resorts, maybe something like the Florida Club? Or are we saying they'll come out with some new animal that's the absolute worst thing any timeshare owner can imagine?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Anything Wrong With Marco Island Platinum ?

Marco Island Platinum will never sell out without pts help

What's wrong with Marco Island ?

I mean, shux, it's not like you're talking Merritt Island.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Transit]

But a lot of their other top resorts are sold out for Platinum Plus and many even for Platinum.

Your thinking in terms of only a fraction of Marriott units.There are openings even at top resorts for other seasons. Plat plus and plat are of small percentage of all weeks. Most of the weeks are not PLATS. Being able to trade up to one of the nicer resorts will be a strong lure even if its off season or only a one bedroom.. Most folks will like the idea of trading up to a resort or season which was unobtainable before. Other systems even let you borrow points from your next years usage so you can have enough points from a weak trader to visit a resort that requires more points.
There may even be a daily usage within the points system like Hyatt has so you can reserve/use points from a low bronze week to stay 3 or 4 days at a much better resort/season. I'LL be watching to see how it plays out .Marriott going to a points system has peaked my interest. I'll play the game.

 

[SueDonJ]

This makes me very happy that we bought Silver season at Ocean Point because we wanted to use that particular season. The only problem is, we purchased a 3 bedroom with the thought that we'd eventually need the additional room as the kids grew up and had kids of their own. Now here we are, 10 years down the road with the kids at 30 and 27, still no grandchildren and niether yet ready to take vacations and travel.

I don't see myself putting this week into any points based program unless there's some advantage to us putting our Platinum Grand Chateau week in and putting our Ocean Pointe week in along with it.

Time will tell and everything depends on what the actual program will be.

Of course, time will tell. But I'm wondering why you're considering the relative value of your 3BR Silver only if a new system is workable with your other week, and not as a stand-alone week. If a points system allows you to trade your Silver 3BR for a Gold 2BR at any equal-quality resort or for a Platinum 1BR at a higher-quality resort, or for 2 or 3 Silver 1BR weeks at OP, wouldn't those options fit your vacationing lifestyle now?

I'm sorry if I have your thinking process all wrong. But I'm hoping that a new points system will have this type of flexibility, and that 3BR units anywhere will be valuable simply because they are limited inventory. Am I dreaming?

 

[DanCali]

Almost...

There was a period of 18 hours when it looked like this thread would finally die down but now it's all buzzing again...

The only thing this thread accomplishes is that it may scare away potential resale buyers, thus potentially having a negative effect on resale prices. Guess who rejoices when that happens? It does not affect retail buyers because they usually are not familiar with TUG... We are all playing into the hands of Marriott salespeople...

THESE RUMORS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. THEY ARE STILL JUST RUMORS. There has been nothing official from Marriott. I haven't even seen a salesperson put any of this in writing to a potential client - they talk about it with potential customers but when they summarize conversations in emails they talk about other things highlighting retail "benefits" (point cenversion benefit, vacation advisor, etc).

It just started with an innocent question from a confused potential retail buyer. I am not sure why this thread is so different than dozens of others that discuss the same topic over the past 3-4 years. All it does is bring up dozens of alternatives to something that may not even happen at all. Personally, I'll just wait and see what happens (or not) in June. Discussing te same things over and over again accomplishes nothing, in my opinion, other than that someone can say "I told you so" IF anything happens down the road. ..

 

[Transit]

There was a period of 18 hours when it looked like this thread would finally die down but now it's all buzzing again...

The only thing this thread accomplishes is that it may scare away potential resale buyers, thus potentially having a negative effect on resale prices. Guess who rejoices when that happens? It does not affect retail buyers because they usually are not familiar with TUG... We are all playing into the hands of Marriott salespeople...

THESE RUMORS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. THEY ARE STILL JUST RUMORS. There has been nothing official from Marriott. I haven't even seen a salesperson put any of this in writing to a potential client - they talk about it with potential customers but when they summarize conversations in emails they talk about other things highlighting retail "benefits" (point cenversion benefit, vacation advisor, etc).

It just started with an innocent question from a confused potential retail buyer. I am not sure why this thread is so different than dozens of others that discuss the same topic over the past 3-4 years. All it does is bring up dozens of alternatives to something that may not even happen at all. Personally, I'll just wait and see what happens (or not) in June. Discussing te same things over and over again accomplishes nothing, in my opinion, other than that someone can say "I told you so" IF anything happens down the road. ..

I disagree, It's actually peaked my interest in Marriott resale.

 

[jlf58]

Thats exactly how you should buy a Marriott. My biggest owner complaint was II. The best internal MVCI joke is MVCI needs II because without them, who else could them blame for people not getting thier exchange

This makes me very happy that we bought Silver season at Ocean Point because we wanted to use that particular season. QUOTE]

 

[jlf58]

Nothing except for the price. Marriott lowered Platinum 35% and it's still overpriced.

What's wrong with Marco Island ?

I mean, shux, it's not like you're talking Merritt Island.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[jlf58]

hello ? This is NOT a rumor. I heard it directly from "high up" that everyone was told to get this done by mid June. I personally think it will be delayed a month or so but it will be close. Certain sales depts were told they could get fired it they talk about it. The reason is why would someone buy NOW with a new program so close. the sales people that are discussing it and not helping themselves.

There was a period of 18 hours when it looked like this thread would finally die down but now it's all buzzing again...

The only thing this thread accomplishes is that it may scare away potential resale buyers, thus potentially having a negative effect on resale prices. Guess who rejoices when that happens? It does not affect retail buyers because they usually are not familiar with TUG... We are all playing into the hands of Marriott salespeople...

THESE RUMORS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. THEY ARE STILL JUST RUMORS. There has been nothing official from Marriott. I haven't even seen a salesperson put any of this in writing to a potential client - they talk about it with potential customers but when they summarize conversations in emails they talk about other things highlighting retail "benefits" (point cenversion benefit, vacation advisor, etc).

It just started with an innocent question from a confused potential retail buyer. I am not sure why this thread is so different than dozens of others that discuss the same topic over the past 3-4 years. All it does is bring up dozens of alternatives to something that may not even happen at all. Personally, I'll just wait and see what happens (or not) in June. Discussing te same things over and over again accomplishes nothing, in my opinion, other than that someone can say "I told you so" IF anything happens down the road. ..

 

[jlf58]

Actually I think Doug's 3bd will be fine. Remember Oceana palms doesn't even have silver season as silver OP is really Gold and will trade well. Add to that the 3bd oceanfront and it will do even better. My guess is better views will get a bit more points.

Of course, time will tell. But I'm wondering why you're considering the relative value of your 3BR Silver only if a new system is workable with your other week, and not as a stand-alone week. If a points system allows you to trade your Silver 3BR for a Gold 2BR at any equal-quality resort or for a Platinum 1BR at a higher-quality resort, or for 2 or 3 Silver 1BR weeks at OP, wouldn't those options fit your vacationing lifestyle now?

I'm sorry if I have your thinking process all wrong. But I'm hoping that a new points system will have this type of flexibility, and that 3BR units anywhere will be valuable simply because they are limited inventory. Am I dreaming?

 

[ondeadlin]

The most interesting aspect of this, to me, will be watching how Marriott assigns point values. It will be absolutely fascinating and should expose what we all already know, i.e. that prime season in Orlando or Branson sure isn't the same as prime season in Hawaii or Park City.

But there are many things beyond that which are interesting.

What is a fixed 1BR ski week in Vail worth? Not a great property, but a lot of demand. It might actually give value back to those weeks. Same for Breckenridge.

Vegas was sold as platinum season year-round, but anyone familiar with Vegas knows that's ridiculous. Will different points be awarded for different reserved weeks? I doubt it, because it's too complicated. Does that make Vegas a way to game the system? Perhaps.

Will they give different points for different views? Again, very complicated, but another selling point if they do.

I could think of dozens of similar questions. Again, it will be very interesting to watch.

I expect there will be ways to exploit the system. There always are. But the issue of steadily rising MF will be a problem, just as it is currently.

 

[jlf58]

As much as I would love to see Perry's Gold Summit Watch week suffer, there will always be a loophole

Regaarding views, You get more marriott rewards points with a better view in most cases so that should give you a hint that getting more trade points for a better view will help drive oceanfront and oceanside sales more than gardenview

The most interesting aspect of this, to me, will be watching how Marriott assigns point values. It will be absolutely fascinating and should expose what we all already know, i.e. that prime season in Orlando or Branson sure isn't the same as prime season in Hawaii or Park City.

But there are many things beyond that which are interesting.

What is a fixed 1BR ski week in Vail worth? Not a great property, but a lot of demand. It might actually give value back to those weeks. Same for Breckenridge.

Vegas was sold as platinum season year-round, but anyone familiar with Vegas knows that's ridiculous. Will different points be awarded for different reserved weeks? I doubt it, because it's too complicated. Does that make Vegas a way to game the system? Perhaps.

Will they give different points for different views? Again, very complicated, but another selling point if they do.

I could think of dozens of similar questions. Again, it will be very interesting to watch.

I expect there will be ways to exploit the system. There always are. But the issue of steadily rising MF will be a problem, just as it is currently.

 

[jlf58]

gee, thanks John. Didn't your Momma teach you if you don't have nothing nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all ?
If you want to trash people, what about those HOA people who rip people off yearly

. You know how convincing sales weasel 1/2 truths can be in the carefully designed frenzy of the sales pitch.

 

[dougp26364]

Of course, time will tell. But I'm wondering why you're considering the relative value of your 3BR Silver only if a new system is workable with your other week, and not as a stand-alone week. If a points system allows you to trade your Silver 3BR for a Gold 2BR at any equal-quality resort or for a Platinum 1BR at a higher-quality resort, or for 2 or 3 Silver 1BR weeks at OP, wouldn't those options fit your vacationing lifestyle now?

I'm sorry if I have your thinking process all wrong. But I'm hoping that a new points system will have this type of flexibility, and that 3BR units anywhere will be valuable simply because they are limited inventory. Am I dreaming?

What I'm thinking is that since we use this week every year, there's no sense in putting paying to put it into any other type of exchange system Marriott might come up with. The only reason I'll move it to another internal exchange system is if putting our Grand Chateau week into the new system makes sense.

Even then, I get such good value trading our studio lock-off of our Ocean Pointe week that putting it into any new system might be foolish for us. I might not be able to pull off Marriott to Marriott exchanges after the new system comes out but, my bet is I'll still be able to get what I want and move up in size from studio to one bedroom.

If I move that unit into a points based exchange system, I won't be able to work that studio unit into a larger unit. Granted it will be a more equitable system but, it might be better for me to leave that one out of the system unless combining it with our Platinum week works out better than I'm thinking it will.

Essentially, what I was saying is that buying an off season week wasn't a bad move so long as it was a season you want to travel in. Silver season works for us at this particular resort only because that's when we want to be there. The studio unit has been an extra exchange week for us and we've received great value for it when exchanging with Interval. Moving it to a points based system that would not allow us to trade that unit up won't make sense but, if those extra points generated by that unit plus the points generated by our Platinum week give us enough points to get what would be considered a more prime week, maybe it will make sense.

 

[dougp26364]

Thats exactly how you should buy a Marriott. My biggest owner complaint was II. The best internal MVCI joke is MVCI needs II because without them, who else could them blame for people not getting thier exchange

This makes me very happy that we bought Silver season at Ocean Point because we wanted to use that particular season. QUOTE]

Oddly enough we've done very well with Interval. This year we exchanged our studio Ocean Pointe silver season week for a one bedroom Mountain Valley Lodge June week. Probably about equal in season but still a move up in size.

Likewise we've exchanged May Ocean Pointe studio weeks for one and two bedroom November and December Branson weeks several times. Again, probably moving from equitable season to season (lower demand) but moving up in size.

We've also exchange our 2 bedroom MGC for two bedroom units in Newport Coast and Kauai. The one bedroom units at MGC has been used to trade back into MGC for a different year, one bedroom at Custom House and this year a two bedroom at Harbor Club in Harbor Town on HHI.

I'd say Interval hasn't been one of my complaints but, I know that I can't expect great trades if I wait until last minute. The owners I've spoken with who have been unhappy with their ability to exchange have been asking exchanges like summer weeks in Hawaii using silver season Ocean Pointe weeks AND making their request at the 3 to 5 month mark. Many have just had unrealistic expectations based on unrealistic stories told by sales people who allowed them to believe not only that anything was possible, it was probable.

 

[dougp26364]

Actually I think Doug's 3bd will be fine. Remember Oceana palms doesn't even have silver season as silver OP is really Gold and will trade well. Add to that the 3bd oceanfront and it will do even better. My guess is better views will get a bit more points.

I know that's one thing I'll be interested to see. Two properties less than a mile apart with different seasons. Some of those Ocean Pointe silver weeks happen to be in Platinum season for Oceana Palms. Seems to me that Marriott has messed up the seasons at one of these two resorts. Either the Platinum season at Oceana Palms is to long or the gold season at Ocean Pointe is to short. Probably a combination of both.

If we had waited for Oceana Palms, the times we like to travel would have overlapped between gold and platinum seasons. A points based system where we could buy platinum yet stay in gold would have worked well for us at this particular property.

 

[dougp26364]

As much as I would love to see Perry's Gold Summit Watch week suffer, there will always be a loophole

Regaarding views, You get more marriott rewards points with a better view in most cases so that should give you a hint that getting more trade points for a better view will help drive oceanfront and oceanside sales more than gardenview

Makes me glad that, not only did we buy in the season we wanted but, we bought the best view/unit location possible. We didn't need the three bedroom MGC unit but, we wanted the end cap view and floor to ceiling windows it provided. Thus we bought the larger unit because it had the better view.

The Ocean Pointe three bedroom was purchased because we liked it's layout better than the two bedroom unit and, we assumed we'd eventually be able to use the extra space. Until the kids start traveling with us, we'll us the two bedroom master suite and trade the studio unit. Fortunately for us, it's worked out that we've been able to trade the studio up to larger units. Even though it's just the two of us, studio's are just to confining.

Most of this thread makes for interesting reading. Some of what's posted will come true but, a lot of it will be somewhat off the mark. What I'm waiting to see is if Marriott tries to go to a trust based, no home resort style of system or if it's just converting deeded weeks into a point value for an internal exchange system. It could be a combination of both so, many of the guesses here on what will happen with be partially true but mostly wrong.

At the very least, it gives me something to look forward to this summer. To bad it won't take place before our trip in May.

 

[JimIg23]

We have done pretty well with II, but it has been with more even trades, but one upgrade to a 2 bedroom. This is the first year we will see if II comes thru. I am trying to get Hawaii (summer 2011) this year with my NCV (summer) and MHZ deposited weeks. With the new system, I am pretty confident that it would take both weeks to get one Hawaii week, if they even had the inventory......

 

[ricki999]

hello ? This is NOT a rumor. I heard it directly from "high up" that everyone was told to get this done by mid June.

While I don't doubt the information in the slightest, it is a rumor and hearsay by definition.

hear·say (hîrs)
n.
1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

 

[jlf58]

Ok, so what I heard was NOT a rumor but fact since I heard it direct.

While I don't doubt the information in the slightest, it is a rumor and hearsay by definition.

hear·say (hîrs)
n.
1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

 

[ricki999]

Ok, so what I heard was NOT a rumor but fact since I heard it direct.

And very valuable information I might add, I just wish Marriott would officially respond to the rumors.