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Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

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Latravel

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resale owners are NOT the majority of people and if they didn't charge more to resale owners, they would tick off the people who bought from the developer. They will have no problem deciding which class they need to be loyal to.

Gosh, i've been saying this forever!!!! Resale purchasers are just a little blimp on the Marriott radar. This is the group who wants to spend the least on a purchase and thinks with their heads, not emotions. This is NOT the group any luxury sales organization will target!

Their business decisions are not meant to PUNISH any group of consumer. They are developing new products that will encourage sales. In this development process, they will target those who have a history of spending $30K, $50K or greater, more than once. This isn't done out of "good will" or loyalty...this is the group that supports the timeshare division and they are coming up with new ways to get this group to spend more/again. Wouldn't you do the same?

If their new model means they generate lots of money for the division, but Mary in NJ won't get all of the $8K she spent on her timeshare when she sells, well, thats the cost of doing business and it's an easy decision for them. Their shareholders demand these kinds of decisions. To think that the group who spends the least is entitled to something (protection from devaluation, program discount) is being naive and a little narrow minded. Look at the greater picture.
 
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m61376

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Gosh, i've been saying this forever!!!! Resale purchasers are just a little blimp on the Marriott radar. This is the group who wants to spend the least on a purchase and thinks with their heads, not emotions. This is NOT the group any luxury sales organization will target!

Their business decisions are not meant to PUNISH any group of consumer. They are developing new products that will encourage sales. In this development process, they will target those who have a history of spending $30K, $50K or greater, more than once. This isn't done out of "good will" or loyalty...this is the group that supports the timeshare division and they are coming up with new ways to get this group to spend more/again. Wouldn't you do the same?

If their new model means they generate lots of money for the division, but Mary in NJ won't get all of the $8K she spent on her timeshare when she sells, well, thats the cost of doing business and it's an easy decision for them. Their shareholders demand these kinds of decisions. To think that the group who spends the least is entitled to something (protection from devaluation, program discount) is being naive and a little narrow minded. Look at the greater picture.

IF resale buyers were only resale owners then it might make sense for Marriott to dismiss them as an important corporate concern. What you (and perhaps even Fletch, although I respect his opinion greatly) miss in your logic and statements is that many, perhaps even most, resale owners also own one or more developer weeks. Many bought resale because that better suited their needs at the time. HOWEVER, I have said this before but I think it is worth underscoring- ALL owners, whether or not they have bought all their units from the developer or one or more resale, are Marriott customers. They have decided to enter into an on-going relationship with Marriott- they pay thousands of dollars in MF's on an on-going basis, spend money at their properties, and many (even resale owners) have developed a brand loyalty. As you commented, when Marriott begins to further develop its product they will want a happy consumer base to sell to. I believe resale owners are part of that "group that supports the timeshare division;" again, many have already bought through the developer and all candidates for future direct purchases.

Admittedly, there are those resale buyers who have only and will only buy resale, but I think the majority of resale buyers would buy direct if the right opportunity came along. Many formerly direct buyers have felt that resale purchases made more sense to them over the past few years because Marriott wasn't offering enough up front incentives and the pricing was too high. Offer the 300-500K up front points and perhaps a little more realistic pricing and I think many more people would go the developer route; convenience of purchase and wanting to buy into the next new resort will win out if the dollar differential isn't too big.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the majority of resale owners are only bargain hunters in general. My guess is that most people who are shelling out thousands of dollars in MF's and taking multiple weeks of vacation every year have discretionary income. Many probably have nice cars and nice homes. Many, if not most, have the discretionary income to be a developer customer if Marriott introduces their next property right. Many have before, and if not antagonized, may likely buy that way again. While I bought resale, I know I would have bought direct under the right circumstances, as many of you have in the past. I wasn't willing to pay 15K for 150K points and for the privilege of trading a unit for points which didn't make sense to me with MF's in excess of $1000, but I know I could have and would have bought direct if the incentive and pricing were right.

To address your second paragraph- it is not Mary in NJ that bought her unit resale for 8K that stands to lose the most if Marriott punishes the resale market. It is the developer buyer who bought that unit for 25 or 30K who suddenly finds that his/her needs have changed and finds the value of their purchase decimated by a company that has set out to destroy the inherent value of their property. So everyone loses, except perhaps Marriott. Over the long run, does that make for a happy and loyal customer base?

I think as Marriott develops their new program (which may very well undergo changes from what was posted, if my source was correct in that they are far from certain even about releasing it [which may or may not be the case, of course]) resales will need to be considered in two groups- current resale owners and future resale buyers. Current resale owners already have made their purchase, so their benefit to Marriott is only as an audience for future purchases; they are also valued as supporting the brand, paying MF's, perhaps owning one or more direct purchases as well, and spending money at Marriott properties. I still maintain that if Marriott penalizes this group they have only the thousand here and there from those owners that opt into the new program as a "reward" for doing so, but it would incur a cost of perhaps alienating a significant portion of owners (although only 7% of sales are resales, what is the percentage of resale owners, since many resale owners are direct purchasers as well?).

Whether or not direct purchasers think that resale buyers should receive the same benefits is not the issue here, nor should it be. The fact is that current resale owners bought into a system where they were told that they would enjoy the same ownership rights and privileges as all other owners, except that they couldn't trade for points. Those who felt the point option wasn't worth the extra money saved some bucks and bought resale. And, while only the right of unit use is delineated in the ownership documents, everyone- direct and resale- bought in with the understanding that there was an exchange system which could change over time, and given the way it was sold every purchaser had the natural expectation that all owners would be treated equally wrt their unit usage (reserving at their home resort or exchanging). It is human nature to expect rights, once given, to be retained- and that's why I think it is only equitable that Marriott continue to treat all current owners the same wrt unit usage (and, I know the 13 month rule has been discussed ad nauseum, but again- right or wrong- at least it was applied across the board and, as Dave pointed out in another post, was in the original documents of most, if not all, resorts).

Future resale buyers is a different entity. Obviously, creating a schism between developer and resale purchasers and benefits makes the developer product more attractive, so I can see that this is a viable business decision. OR- they can take the high road- like DVC, for example- and just make a better product that retains its value just because the product is perceived as being so good. Keep the value of resales up and the price difference becomes minimal. Throw in some up front incentives and people will buy developer IF they aren't saving tens of thousands of dollars by buying resale. In essence, that's what DVC has done. And, yes, one can argue that they have the parks- but they also have non-park properties. They wouldn't be embarking on their project at Ko'Olina and going head to head with Marriott if they didn't think their business model could support it.

I think many people, when considering such a purchase, consider more that just the bottom line. Convenience is a big factor too. So if Marriott worked to sustain the value of their properties it would be a win-win all around. People would buy direct if the price difference was small because direct purchases are easier and perceived to be safer transaction, there is the perception of an intangible benefit, and excitement is created when you feel you own something that retains its value- and that promotes sales. Again, Marriott can learn from the DVC model, and they can learn what not to do from Starwood. That would be the best way to get any of their owners to spend more again.

One last food for thought- I think most buyers- whether or not they feel there is retained value- once the purchase is made don't actively consider the monetary value of their ownership but the vacation and family value; the intangible value is what ownership is all about for most people. That's what makes us pay our MF's and spend money at Marriott's properties ($$'s spent at their restaurants, booking activities through their concierges, playing in their casinos, spa treatments, marketplace purchases, etc.). The real cost of ownership is the MF's, which over the years can exceed the purchase price (regardless of how the purchase was made). That's the biggest issue in my book. Alienate the owners and you start getting large scale defaults on MF's- and guess who gets to make up the difference? THAT'S everyone's problem (and, again, look next door to Starwood's issues if you think that's an over-dramatization).
 
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jlf58

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MVCI really doesn't spend that much time thinking about this and you are way over thinking this

First off, of my maybe 1000 developer sale owners, about 2% also owned resales so deveoper owners are loyal.
Would it suprised you if I told you most developer purchasers are aware of the resale market ? They are and still buy direct .... The sales people are very good :)

This is what MVCI thinks :
We will let resale owners buy in at an additional cost that way we can tell them we still want them but they need to pay a bit more since they bought resale.
We will tell developer purchasers we charged resale owners more since they bought resale.

It's just this simple so lets keep it that simple !!




IF resale buyers were only resale owners then it might make sense for Marriott to dismiss them as an important corporate concern. What you (and perhaps even Fletch, although I respect his opinion greatly) miss in your logic and statements is that many, perhaps even most, resale owners also own one or more developer weeks. Many bought resale because that better suited their needs at the time. HOWEVER, I have said this before but I think it is worth underscoring- ALL owners, whether or not they have bought all their units from the developer or one or more resale, are Marriott customers. They have decided to enter into an on-going relationship with Marriott- they pay thousands of dollars in MF's on an on-going basis, spend money at their properties, and many (even resale owners) have developed a brand loyalty. As you commented, when Marriott begins to further develop its product they will want a happy consumer base to sell to. I believe resale owners are part of that "group that supports the timeshare division;" again, many have already bought through the developer and all candidates for future direct purchases.

Admittedly, there are those resale buyers who have only and will only buy resale, but I think the majority of resale buyers would buy direct if the right opportunity came along. Many formerly direct buyers have felt that resale purchases made more sense to them over the past few years because Marriott wasn't offering enough up front incentives and the pricing was too high. Offer the 300-500K up front points and perhaps a little more realistic pricing and I think many more people would go the developer route; convenience of purchase and wanting to buy into the next new resort will win out if the dollar differential isn't too big.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the majority of resale owners are only bargain hunters in general. My guess is that most people who are shelling out thousands of dollars in MF's and taking multiple weeks of vacation every year have discretionary income. Many probably have nice cars and nice homes. Many, if not most, have the discretionary income to be a developer customer if Marriott introduces their next property right. Many have before, and if not antagonized, may likely buy that way again. While I bought resale, I know I would have bought direct under the right circumstances, as many of you have in the past. I wasn't willing to pay 15K for 150K points and for the privilege of trading a unit for points which didn't make sense to me with MF's in excess of $1000, but I know I could have and would have bought direct if the incentive and pricing were right.

To address your second paragraph- it is not Mary in NJ that bought her unit resale for 8K that stands to lose the most if Marriott punishes the resale market. It is the developer buyer who bought that unit for 25 or 30K who suddenly finds that his/her needs have changed and finds the value of their purchase decimated by a company that has set out to destroy the inherent value of their property. So everyone loses, except perhaps Marriott. Over the long run, does that make for a happy and loyal customer base?

I think as Marriott develops their new program (which may very well undergo changes from what was posted, if my source was correct in that they are far from certain even about releasing it [which may or may not be the case, of course]) resales will need to be considered in two groups- current resale owners and future resale buyers. Current resale owners already have made their purchase, so their benefit to Marriott is only as an audience for future purchases; they are also valued as supporting the brand, paying MF's, perhaps owning one or more direct purchases as well, and spending money at Marriott properties. I still maintain that if Marriott penalizes this group they have only the thousand here and there from those owners that opt into the new program as a "reward" for doing so, but it would incur a cost of perhaps alienating a significant portion of owners (although only 7% of sales are resales, what is the percentage of resale owners, since many resale owners are direct purchasers as well?).

Whether or not direct purchasers think that resale buyers should receive the same benefits is not the issue here, nor should it be. The fact is that current resale owners bought into a system where they were told that they would enjoy the same ownership rights and privileges as all other owners, except that they couldn't trade for points. Those who felt the point option wasn't worth the extra money saved some bucks and bought resale. And, while only the right of unit use is delineated in the ownership documents, everyone- direct and resale- bought in with the understanding that there was an exchange system which could change over time, and given the way it was sold every purchaser had the natural expectation that all owners would be treated equally wrt their unit usage (reserving at their home resort or exchanging). It is human nature to expect rights, once given, to be retained- and that's why I think it is only equitable that Marriott continue to treat all current owners the same wrt unit usage (and, I know the 13 month rule has been discussed ad nauseum, but again- right or wrong- at least it was applied across the board and, as Dave pointed out in another post, was in the original documents of most, if not all, resorts).

Future resale buyers is a different entity. Obviously, creating a schism between developer and resale purchasers and benefits makes the developer product more attractive, so I can see that this is a viable business decision. OR- they can take the high road- like DVC, for example- and just make a better product that retains its value just because the product is perceived as being so good. Keep the value of resales up and the price difference becomes minimal. Throw in some up front incentives and people will buy developer IF they aren't saving tens of thousands of dollars by buying resale. In essence, that's what DVC has done. And, yes, one can argue that they have the parks- but they also have non-park properties. They wouldn't be embarking on their project at Ko'Olina and going head to head with Marriott if they didn't think their business model could support it.

I think many people, when considering such a purchase, consider more that just the bottom line. Convenience is a big factor too. So if Marriott worked to sustain the value of their properties it would be a win-win all around. People would buy direct if the price difference was small because direct purchases are easier and perceived to be safer transaction, there is the perception of an intangible benefit, and excitement is created when you feel you own something that retains its value- and that promotes sales. Again, Marriott can learn from the DVC model, and they can learn what not to do from Starwood. That would be the best way to get any of their owners to spend more again.

One last food for thought- I think most buyers- whether or not they feel there is retained value- once the purchase is made don't actively consider the monetary value of their ownership but the vacation and family value; the intangible value is what ownership is all about for most people. That's what makes us pay our MF's and spend money at Marriott's properties ($$'s spent at their restaurants, booking activities through their concierges, playing in their casinos, spa treatments, marketplace purchases, etc.). The real cost of ownership is the MF's, which over the years can exceed the purchase price (regardless of how the purchase was made). That's the biggest issue in my book. Alienate the owners and you start getting large scale defaults on MF's- and guess who gets to make up the difference? THAT'S everyone's problem (and, again, look next door to Starwood's issues if you think that's an over-dramatization).
 
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dougp26364

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MVCI really doesn't spend that much time thinking about this and you are way over thinking this :)

First off, of my maybe 1000 developer sale owners, about 2% also owned resales.

This is what MVCI thinks :
We will let resale owners buy in at an additional cost that way we can tell them we still want them but they need to pay a bit more since they bought resale.
We will tell developer purchasers we charged resale owners more since they bought resale.

It's just this simple so lets keep it that simple !!

Fletch,

What is your opinion on reserving and depositing for 2011 in light that there is likely to be a major change for Marriott's internal program this year?

I have a 3 bedroom MGC unit that I normally lock-off, reserve and, at a minimum deposit the 1 bedroom for exchange and will like offer up the 2 bedroom master suite on a request first basis. Typically we do this the end of Feb or the first week of March. Now with the change potentially being around the corner, I'm not sure how well this will work for 2011 exchanges.

My gut feeling is to go ahead as if nothing was going to change. We can be happy using the two bedroom master suite for a Vegas vacation. I'm also relatively certain I can locate a worthy exchange for the one bedroom lock-off, even if a Marriott internal preference became somewhat murky compared to past transactions.
 
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JimIg23

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I see the good and bad for both buying direct and resale, so either way, as long as you are happy, great. However, I dont buy into we have to charge more to resales to make direct owners happy.

I bought my Honda directly from Honda and pay a certain amount of money for oil changes there. I dont see Honda charging Honda owners who bought their car resale 2 times the cost for the same oil change...... You can make an argument that this is different, but I think it is the same.
 

jlf58

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The new program will be very sloooooow to work so I would do what you normally do

Fletch,

What is your opinion on reserving and depositing for 2011 in light that there is likely to be a major change for Marriott's internal program this year?

I have a 3 bedroom MGC unit that I normally lock-off, reserve and, at a minimum deposit the 1 bedroom for exchange and will like offer up the 2 bedroom master suite on a request first basis. Typically we do this the end of Feb or the first week of March. Now with the change potentially being around the corner, I'm not sure how well this will work for 2011 exchanges.

My gut feeling is to go ahead as if nothing was going to change. We can be happy using the two bedroom master suite for a Vegas vacation. I'm also relatively certain I can locate a worthy exchange for the one bedroom lock-off, even if a Marriott internal preference became somewhat murky compared to past transactions.
 

Beverley

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Sue- I don't know if your last comment was directed at me, but I certainly didn't have any expectations of my purchases being a protected investment. Even at resale prices (which for premium properties are still substantial) the expectation is that the inherent value will fluctuate with the market (and very loosely with the real estate market perhaps). The primary value is in usage. However, my expectation also is that there would be some inherent value (regardless of how the unit was purchased) and that Marriott would act in such a manner as to not sabotage the inherent value (and, in reality, direct buyers will suffer more should they ever decide to sell if Marriott does decimate the resale market).

I, too, did not buy thinking a timeshare would be an "investment" or that we would "make" money, however, Marriott by word and deed had been protecting resale values until last year when they stopped exercising their ROFR that they chose to build into every contract. Tug posts have debated at length the value of the ROFR and we are seeing now what happens when there is none. In this way, Marriott's actions have decimated any reasonable resale price. My expectation, that was created by Marriott, was that they would not overtly destroy reasonable resales.

Beverley :annoyed:
 

m61376

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Fletch- I respect you tremendously, but I don't think it is as simple as you are projecting. I really think it's a lot more complex and has the potential for a lot of ramifications- both positive and negative, depending upon how it is handled. I suspect you recognize the pitfalls of the system being discussed; you've hinted that it was part of your reasoning for leaving. That, along with you co-workers' departure, speaks volumes.

And, no, I am not surprised that the majority of your buyers knew about the resale market but bought from you anyway- that's why you were a top salesperson. My Dad was a salesman, so I know how someone good at what they do can skew things ;) . I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that many of those resale buyers also own developer weeks though- they just may not have been dealing with someone as persuasive as you are.

Clearly Marriott is not finding this whole proposed system simple on any level, which is why while their salespeople may have been told that it was rolling out come June (and I don't doubt this is what you were told, don't get me wrong) others have been told that the final product, if any is actually introduced in the future, basically needs a lot of revision. While I am not implying that the resale-direct purchase issue is a major obstacle in this process, I think it deserves more consideration than you do. Creating two groups of owners can have big ramifications (again- consider DVC and consider Starwood).

I guess time will tell which road Marriott decides to take.
 

Beverley

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I don't think anyone expects a guaranteed return on any real-estate investment. Likewise, they do not expect their management company to deliberately devalue their investment, just because they can.

BINGO!

Beverley
 

m61376

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I see the good and bad for both buying direct and resale, so either way, as long as you are happy, great. However, I dont buy into we have to charge more to resales to make direct owners happy.

I bought my Honda directly from Honda and pay a certain amount of money for oil changes there. I dont see Honda charging Honda owners who bought their car resale 2 times the cost for the same oil change...... You can make an argument that this is different, but I think it is the same.

:clap: I'd hate to think that any owners would take perverse pleasure in penalizing any other owner. To take it one step further- rather than feeling smug that resale owners are getting their just deserves, so to speak, they should recognize that it actually is bad for them as well, should they ever want or need to sell.

And the car analogy is a good one- once the purchase is made, the dealer doesn't- and shouldn't- care how it was bought. Ongoing maintenance still brings in money and good service maintains customer loyalty. Maybe next time you'll go to the dealer directly, because you've built up brand loyalty from happy usage and customer satisfaction over the years.
 

jlf58

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The delay, if any, has nothing to do with resales, thats for sure. It was a simple fix, charge resale owners more money , PERIOD.
The delay, if any, is because you are way smarter than anyone working on the changes :)

Fletch- I respect you tremendously, but I don't think it is as simple as you are projecting. I really think it's a lot more complex and has the potential for a lot of ramifications- both positive and negative, depending upon how it is handled. I suspect you recognize the pitfalls of the system being discussed; you've hinted that it was part of your reasoning for leaving. That, along with you co-workers' departure, speaks volumes.

And, no, I am not surprised that the majority of your buyers knew about the resale market but bought from you anyway- that's why you were a top salesperson. My Dad was a salesman, so I know how someone good at what they do can skew things ;) . I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that many of those resale buyers also own developer weeks though- they just may not have been dealing with someone as persuasive as you are.

Clearly Marriott is not finding this whole proposed system simple on any level, which is why while their salespeople may have been told that it was rolling out come June (and I don't doubt this is what you were told, don't get me wrong) others have been told that the final product, if any is actually introduced in the future, basically needs a lot of revision. While I am not implying that the resale-direct purchase issue is a major obstacle in this process, I think it deserves more consideration than you do. Creating two groups of owners can have big ramifications (again- consider DVC and consider Starwood).

I guess time will tell which road Marriott decides to take.
 
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Powerguy

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If Marriott can succeed in increasing the value of resale weeks this entire discussion goes away. What is driving resale purchases is the large difference between the cost to buy direct and what units sell for in the resale market.

This is what convinced me to buy resale. If the difference in a $36,000 timeshare was a few thousand dollars if would be a no-brainer. With resale prices at 50-60 percent of developer prices it was an easy decision for me.

From my perspective the value of usage or any end value (if you sell it) were the same if you bought developer or resale so in my opinion why not get in at a lower price.

The best interest for Marriott is to bolster ownership value (direct purchase and resale values) so the perceived “vacation investment” value is there.

The question is what has caused this large difference in values? The economy? The large increase in timeshare retail prices? In a strong market the ROFR should have helped bolster resale prices as Marriott would not let low price resale occur and had a line of people waiting to buy the units “resale” from Marriott and full developer price.
 

Beverley

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This is my educated guess. new sales will have the fee included, owners who buy another week will get thier weeks grandfathered, owners who just want to upgrade thier weeks will pay about $500 per week. My guess would be resale owners, more like $1500.

Fletch,

Do you think, then, that an owner with multiple weeks could pick and choose which weeks were in the points program and which were not?

Beverley
 

m61376

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The delay, if any, has nothing to do with resales, thats for sure. It was a simple fix, charge resale owners more money , PERIOD.
The delay, if any, is because you are way smarter than anyone working on the changes :)

I certainly hope those that are working on the system are more well versed in points systems and their usage than I am. And I was not making up what I was told; while I respect the person who told me enough not to mention him by name, it was certainly a "higher up" who would be privy to such information and not a figment of my imagination.

Then again, when I look to the Asia pacific program that they came up with I am not so sure that the powers that be are "so smart" or that anything is "so simple." Being that you left at least in part because of what you felt was coming down the pike, I am not so sure anyone finds it so simple.

If resales were such a non-issue as to be simply dismissed I don't think they would bother creating a disparity between ownership categories. As Powerguy stated: "The best interest for Marriott is to bolster ownership value (direct purchase and resale values) so the perceived “vacation investment” value is there." That's what will increase direct sales going forward.
 

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I certainly hope those that are working on the system are more well versed in points systems and their usage than I am. And I was not making up what I was told; while I respect the person who told me enough not to mention him by name, it was certainly a "higher up" who would be privy to such information and not a figment of my imagination.

Then again, when I look to the Asia pacific program that they came up with I am not so sure that the powers that be are "so smart" or that anything is "so simple." Being that you left at least in part because of what you felt was coming down the pike, I am not so sure anyone finds it so simple.

If resales were such a non-issue as to be simply dismissed I don't think they would bother creating a disparity between ownership categories. As Powerguy stated: "The best interest for Marriott is to bolster ownership value (direct purchase and resale values) so the perceived “vacation investment” value is there." That's what will increase direct sales going forward.

I think whatever happens, they'll be a long learning curve for MCVI and owners too. Going from a weeks system to points is going to be tough.

Depending on how it's set up, there's probably a banking/pooling deadline to consider, which isn't hard but just another day to concern yourself about besides the day you call in to make a reservation.
 

dougp26364

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The new program will be very sloooooow to work so I would do what you normally do

That's pretty much how I fealt about it. We have 4 Marriott timeshare stays this year. Normally, I only attend the non-sales get together to get updates on changes. Perhaps I'll attend one of the owner update presentations somewhere later this year. I hate to do this as I feel it generally wastes a salesmans time but, it looks like it may become necessary to gather additional information to see if the new program fits our needs better than what we have now.
 

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Without a doubt. If I were a 3 or 4 week owner, I would be very careful to deicde which to convert to points. The St Thomas Platinum week that I bought for trade power, without a doubt. The Gold GV week, NO WAY !



Fletch,

Do you think, then, that an owner with multiple weeks could pick and choose which weeks were in the points program and which were not?

Beverley
 

jlf58

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Why bother, just read it here on TUG :)


That's pretty much how I fealt about it. We have 4 Marriott timeshare stays this year. Normally, I only attend the non-sales get together to get updates on changes. Perhaps I'll attend one of the owner update presentations somewhere later this year. I hate to do this as I feel it generally wastes a salesmans time but, it looks like it may become necessary to gather additional information to see if the new program fits our needs better than what we have now.
 

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I see the good and bad for both buying direct and resale, so either way, as long as you are happy, great. However, I dont buy into we have to charge more to resales to make direct owners happy.

I bought my Honda directly from Honda and pay a certain amount of money for oil changes there. I dont see Honda charging Honda owners who bought their car resale 2 times the cost for the same oil change...... You can make an argument that this is different, but I think it is the same.

The "punish resales" logic defies me as well. That's the Starwood approach, and it doesn't go over well.
 

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I apologize if it any way I came across as not accepting that people of course buy for their own reasons- it really wasn't my intent. And anyone's reasons for purchasing are as good as anyone else's (that shouldn't need to be said).

I guess what I find so aggravating is that I think Marriott really has a good product, and I fear it is going to go down the same path as Starwood has. I must admit that I am surprised that timeshare buyers would shell out tens of thousands of dollars solely for the right to make reservations for a week each year (I actually thought that people elected to buy timeshares rather than destination clubs because they liked the idea of owning something- which implies an inherent value). However, as you point out, since at least most people consider the residual value, IF Marriott creates a system where resales become worthless, then I think they will have a very hard time making any sales. And that's bad for everyone.
There is another way to look at it too. When we bought ou fixed week and unit at the Lahaina towe in Maui, renting an equivalent unit there would have been more than double the price so the savings would go to the purchase price. This was our logic but the economy changed everything.

I would not buy a timeshare anywhere today because rentals are available everywhere and prices are about the same as maintenance fees or even cheaper.

Marriott will have to compete with the conditions today and if they want to start the new point system, they will have to make it attractive to everyone as John stated in his post earlier.

I don't believe for a minute that Marriott wants to punish anyone as many resale buyers own many weeks and they are paying maintenance fees so keep the program healthy.

We will be in Maui in a few weeks and I am very curious what we hear at the yearly update and will post it here.
 

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The day the dropped ROFR, I knew Marriott sales would get alot worse as it was such shallow thinking on thier part. A bean counter decided this, not a timeshare expert. So you you have a slow economy and Marriiott shoots themselves in the foot with dropping ROFR and add to that the continuing devaluation of the Marriott rewards points and I think you get the picture. The best salesman in the world can't justify buying direct from them with the costs of resales today.

If Marriott can succeed in increasing the value of resale weeks this entire discussion goes away. What is driving resale purchases is the large difference between the cost to buy direct and what units sell for in the resale market.
 
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timeos2

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Options and values

:clap: I'd hate to think that any owners would take perverse pleasure in penalizing any other owner. To take it one step further- rather than feeling smug that resale owners are getting their just deserves, so to speak, they should recognize that it actually is bad for them as well, should they ever want or need to sell.

And the car analogy is a good one- once the purchase is made, the dealer doesn't- and shouldn't- care how it was bought. Ongoing maintenance still brings in money and good service maintains customer loyalty. Maybe next time you'll go to the dealer directly, because you've built up brand loyalty from happy usage and customer satisfaction over the years.

Any new system that Marriott unveils is an option. If it costs a few dollars more to buy into, as an option, for resale buyers (although it certainly shouldn't matter) then if you saved at least those few dollars - and most likely far more - then you are still way ahead.

The bigger question is why would anyone do business directly with any organization that takes steps to attempt to devalue what they sell you? Every buyer will eventually be a seller so no matter if today you buy retail or resale your eventual sales price has been damaged by those moves. It only makes sense to buy as low as possible for the underlying product you desire as there is ZERO benefit to paying more.

Much like Wyndham destroyed any possible value of direct purchase from them due to short sighted policies Marriott would seem to be on a path of existing owner devaluation should they actually roll out what Fletch has described. All for a tiny percentage of owners that are resale? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

By as cheaply as possible, add the options that work for you and realize that Marriott does NOTHING to help preserve value in their product. If you still want it knowing those facts then at least you buy in informed of the guaranteed loss of value and still see it as a reasonable cost of vacationing where you want to go. It shouldn't be that way and an owner should be an owner period. It is sad to see what was a respected company sink that low for a few bucks.
 

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Fletch,

If a fee is paid to join the new program, would the benefits of the new program pass to the new buyer if the unit is sold, or would the buyer have to pay another fee?
 

jlf58

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good question, not sure how they will handle that.

Fletch,

If a fee is paid to join the new program, would the benefits of the new program pass to the new buyer if the unit is sold, or would the buyer have to pay another fee?
 

dioxide45

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Fletch,

If a fee is paid to join the new program, would the benefits of the new program pass to the new buyer if the unit is sold, or would the buyer have to pay another fee?

If they did I am sure there would be a fee to transfer that privilege to the new owner. It is all about the money.
 
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