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Schools reopening or not

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Cornell

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Yes, I saw that. Your point? It doesn't have to be political. It's a teacher railing against people WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A CLASSROOM making decisions that affect teachers, staff and the students.
My point - it's political and we are supposed to keep politics off of TUG.
 

Cornell

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And.....local school boards are making the bulk of the decisions of how schools are going to roll out this fall -- many members who have never been in a classroom either.
 

Luanne

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My point - it's political and we are supposed to keep politics off of TUG.
Then please report the post so the moderators can remove it.
 

TravelTime

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The teacher’s unions are very political and are left wing.
 

TravelTime

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Teachers know what they are getting into before they become teachers. So why are they surprised when they become teachers that their salaries are lower than other comparable college educated professionals? Part of me thinks that many teachers go into teaching because they think it will be an easy career. Then they are in the classroom and find out how hard it is. The great teachers are passionate about teaching and do not go into teaching for money. These teachers stay in the field until they retire. I have known many great teachers and once they get seniority, the pay is not that bad. Also most teachers marry another college educated professional so their household income is quite high. It is nice that many people can do what they love while someone else pays the bills at home.

BTW my brother is a teacher. My father worked for a community college for 40 years. My in-laws were both teachers. So I am not commenting without any knowledge of teachers.

My father did not make a lot of money but he retired with a pension and other benefits. He was quite happy in retirement. My in laws also retired with a nice pension and were very comfortable in retirement.

My family members were great teachers. They never complained about money.
 

Luanne

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Teachers know what they are getting into before they become teachers. So why are they surprised when they become teachers that their salaries are lower than other comparable college educated professionals? Part of me thinks that many teachers go into teaching because they think it will be an easy career. Then they are in the classroom and find out how hard it is. The great teachers are passionate about teaching and do not go into teaching for money. These teachers stay in the field until they retire. I have known many great teachers and once they get seniority, the pay is not that bad. Also most teachers marry another college educated professional so their household income is quite high. It is nice that many people can do what they love while someone else pays the bills at home.
That's pretty disgusting. I've had many teachers in my family and among my friends. Easy career? Do you know that many, if not most, teachers take on extra jobs during the summer due to their low salaries. Are you aware they need to continue their own education? I'm so glad you can generalize for the entire profession. I think I'm done reading your posts.
 

TravelTime

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That's pretty disgusting. I've had many teachers in my family and among my friends. Easy career? Do you know that many, if not most, teachers take on extra jobs during the summer due to their low salaries. Are you aware they need to continue their own education? I'm so glad you can generalize for the entire profession. I think I'm done reading your posts.

Yes I have many family members in teaching. I added a little more after this post. My family members never had to take on extra jobs to survive. They were passionate about teaching and did quite well on a teaching salary. My brother, who is about 40, is still in teaching and he loves it.
 

TravelTime

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That's pretty disgusting. I've had many teachers in my family and among my friends. Easy career? Do you know that many, if not most, teachers take on extra jobs during the summer due to their low salaries. Are you aware they need to continue their own education? I'm so glad you can generalize for the entire profession. I think I'm done reading your posts.

Why is what I said disgusting? I think you are over reacting. No need to take comments about teaching so personal. It is well known that education in America is problematic. I have known great teachers and many bad teachers.

If teachers were really underpaid, then teachers would not go into the field and salaries would increase. It is supply and demand.
 

Luanne

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Why is what I said disgusting? I think you are over reacting. No need to take comments about teaching so personal. It is well known that education in America is problematic. I have known great teachers and many bad teachers.
Maybe I am overreacting. What got me was the statement that many of them go into teaching because they think it will be an easy career.

Then the whole, most of them marry another college educated professional so their household income is quite high. It is nice that many people can do what they love while someone else pays the bills at home. I'll tell that to my sister whose dh owned his own landscaping business. My sister was the one with the steady income, the one who provided the medical insurance for the company. Or I'll tell that to my single friends. Or another friend whose dh is a teacher while she works contract jobs because her industry kind of shut down.

You tend to generalize and make sweeping statements. Maybe I'm taking down to far to the individual cases.
 

TravelTime

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Maybe I am overreacting. What got me was the statement that many of them go into teaching because they think it will be an easy career.

Then the whole, most of them marry another college educated professional so their household income is quite high. It is nice that many people can do what they love while someone else pays the bills at home. I'll tell that to my sister whose dh owned his own landscaping business. My sister was the one with the steady income, the one who provided the medical insurance for the company. Or I'll tell that to my single friends. Or another friend whose dh is a teacher while she works contract jobs because her industry kind of shut down.

You tend to generalize and make sweeping statements. Maybe I'm taking down to far to the individual cases.

Yes on TUG I could be prone to making generalized statements. My statements do not reflect every teacher’s situation. I have known many teachers who are married and do quite well with dual income. My brother, who is a teacher, is divorced and lives on one income and he has three kids. He lives in Miami which is an expensive place to live. I have known many teachers who are not all that well educated and went into teaching because it is an easy degree, relatively speaking. On the other hand, I also know teachers with masters degrees (like my brother and others).This does not mean that there aren't some great teachers or that my comments do not reflect all teachers. I am generalizing about the field. There are always exceptions of course. To be honest, I think the worst field to go into is social work. They earn less than teachers on average with much worse work conditions. Yet they tend to be passionate about their work and would not trade it.
 
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DannyTS

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I believe that teachers in general deserve higher pay. I do not compare them with the national average, I compare with many other professionals that make a lot more money with seemingly less effort or skills including people that work for various governments. With that being said, it is appalling anyone would call your comment disgusting, you probably deserve an apology.
 

amycurl

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And please remember that in many states, teachers don't have a union AT ALL.

And, yes, in many places of the country, supply and demand, and salary--along with cuts to pensions and tenure, and increased accountability demands--HAS led to a teacher shortage. One that will be made worse if many experienced teachers decide to retire rather than face the outcomes of in-school teaching during a pandemic.

This is the reality: we're facing a choice between inequitable health outcomes vs. inequitable educational outcomes. There are NO winners here; it's a Sophie's choice. And it didn't have to be this way, if there had been more pro-active and creative leadership. But, instead, here we all are.

And we should ALL be outraged about the fact that these are our choices.
 
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jackio

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With the exception of healthcare workers, other essential workers' exposure time to one person is limited. Teachers have a much longer length of exposure in the classroom. Secondary teachers - 45 minutes 5x/day with a total of approx. 150 students daily. Elementary teachers, 5 hours a day with 30 students. I believe the risk is greater for teachers than for other essential workers such as store clerks, who have limited exposure time many more times a day. As a school nurse, I will see between 60 and 80 students a day, most of them for a limited time, but I will have to be close to them (listening to breath sounds, looking in throats, taking temps, dressing wounds). Thankfully I have adequate PPE and I will put a mask on any student complaining of illness upon entering the clinic. I am fairly comfortable with the current clinic situation, but we are currently running a program for 90 special ed students. Talk to me again in September when, if we go to a full opening, I will have a school of 2800 daily.
 

TravelTime

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Note that people want teachers to be paid more yet taxpayers complain when teachers are paid more.


The Rise of the Six-Figure Teacher
By Ford Fessenden and Josh Barbanel

TEACHING has always been known as a noble calling, but as affluent parents and administrators strive to give their children every possible advantage, it has also become a better-paid profession than in the past, with thousands of public school teachers in the New York suburbs now earning more than $100,000 a year.
The salaries, among the highest in the country, are paid only to the most experienced teachers, with the most education, in an area where the cost of living is notoriously high. But they are high enough to have raised the ire of some taxpayers, who are making it an issue in budget votes on Tuesday....

Still, critics of the salaries as well as those who consider them necessary agree that the image of teaching as an altruistic, low-paid occupation is no longer the case in the suburbs. A family with two public school teachers can earn enough to put it in the top 4 percent of families on Long Island.....

“There are a lot of people out there who make a lot more than I do," said Patricia Daniello, 53, an East Islip teacher at the pinnacle of her profession -- 30 years' experience, a master's degree with 90 hours of additional credit, and a $116,772 salary. "Do I think my salary is high, based on what I do for children and the amount of education I have in my background? No, I do not."

But some taxpayers in her district disagree. Ms. Daniello is one of more than 100 teachers whose six-figure salaries appear on a list circulated to voters by the East Islip TaxPac, a group campaigning against the district's proposed 8.8-percent tax increase.

“We're trying to convince people that our teachers and teachers' union and administrators do not have the children's interest at heart," said Richard Graham, a member of the anti-tax group. "The people who couldn't do the engineering, and anything else that required some brain power, became teachers, and they now have $100,000 salaries."

The median salary for teachers in Great Neck is $85,007, and 24 percent make $100,000 or more, the fourth-highest percentage on the Island. The highest-paying district in the state is Scarsdale, where the median salary is just under $98,000, and 43 percent of teachers make six-figure salaries....

Our taxpayers are your average Joes who work two jobs to pay the mortgage," Ms. Camacho said. "We have wonderful teachers. But some are not wonderful, and they're making $115,000.".....
 
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TravelTime

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I believe that teachers in general deserve higher pay. I do not compare them with the national average, I compare with many other professionals that make a lot more money with seemingly less effort or skills including people that work for various governments. With that being said, it is appalling anyone would call your comment disgusting, you probably deserve an apology.

I agree teachers should be paid more. I think we should all solicit our counties/states and ask for higher taxes to pay teachers more.
 

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@TravelTime I have a sister who works as a social worker. Master's Degree. PAY EXTREMELY LOW. And she's at the sunset of her career. I cannot reveal where she works b/c of the extreme sensitivity of her job and the potential of her personal exposure. But she is dealing with stuff all day, every day that is unspeakable & horrific. I don't know how she has managed to do this work as long as she has.

There are certain occupations that are excellent to have in the family. Social workers are one of them -- she has been a godsend navigating my mother's care.
 

TravelTime

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@TravelTime I have a sister who works as a social worker. Master's Degree. PAY EXTREMELY LOW. And she's at the sunset of her career. I cannot reveal where she works b/c of the extreme sensitivity of her job and the potential of her personal exposure. But she is dealing with stuff all day, every day that is unspeakable & horrific. I don't know how she has managed to do this work as long as she has.

There are certain occupations that are excellent to have in the family. Social workers are one of them -- she has been a godsend navigating my mother's care.

Thank you for mentioning this. Social workers are the unsung heros. Unlike teaching, social worker salaries do not increase with experience and the benefits are generally terrible. I know many counselors and social workers who are passionate about helping others and could care less about the pay. They knew going in that the pay would be poor yet they persevered anyway. Why can‘t teachers be like social workers?
 
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Cornell

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Thank you for mentioning this. Social workers are the unsung heros. I work in the field of counseling so I know about this field. No one cares much about counselors and social workers. I am not a social worker so I am well paid. However, I know many counselors and social workers who are passionate about helping others and could care less about the pay. They knew going in that the pay would be poor yet they persevered anyway. Why can‘t teachers be like social workers?
When I hear about what she deals with I will ask her "how do you handle this all day"? And she responds that she feels like she is truly helping people.

I feel that way about people who work in the juvenile court system -- how do you keep your sanity seeing this stuff day after day?
 

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pedro47

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Many, many, many years ago a high school teacher make more money than a professional baseball, basketball & football players. Professional ball players worked part-time jobs to make end meet. That was in sixties. Now every professional ball players makes six (6) just for signing a contract.. LOL..
 

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With the exception of healthcare workers, other essential workers' exposure time to one person is limited. Teachers have a much longer length of exposure in the classroom. Secondary teachers - 45 minutes 5x/day with a total of approx. 150 students daily. Elementary teachers, 5 hours a day with 30 students. I believe the risk is greater for teachers than for other essential workers such as store clerks, who have limited exposure time many more times a day.
I agree with you in theory, it is possible. But in practice, what do we know from Europe? How many teachers have been sick since the schools reopened? How many were gravely ill, how many died? In the absence of the information, because the Europeans do not seem to be worried at all, I assume that the studies showing that the kids are not a risk for transmission are actually true. CDC has never even recommended for the schools to be closed in the first place if I am not mistaken.
What is troubling to me, the teachers' unions do not seem to be interested in the actual science, they are asking questions that are seeking to manipulate into irrational fear rather than looking for answers that are known already in many cases. The unions have had almost 4 months to look at the science and they did nothing. They've even had more than enough time to order and coordinate their own studies if they did not trust the scientific research that is already there.
 
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