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Schools reopening or not

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mentalbreak

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I actually have and she’s enrolled in 2 dual credit classes next year.

BTW love your avatar. I have a set of Raygun coasters that I love . And one is your avatar.
So sorry your daughter is caught in the imperfect storm of losing out on studying abroad, credits for graduation, and a normal senior year. My boys are class of 2022 and 2023. I’m hoping there is some cadence of normalcy by then. I was seriously considering how I could create a meaningful gap year for them (2020-21) if school was going to continue the way it was since March.

And Raygun is so fun! We have a few of their designs and always get comments.
 

Ken555

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Saw this earlier today...

This is circulating... And oh, so true!
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For those of you saying "If essential workers can work, teachers can work, and our kids need to be in school!" I get where you're coming from. I want you to imagine the first day of school.
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Kids will get on the bus. They will be packed together, because my district (like many) has ruled that it is too expensive and time-consuming to do staggered bussing. They will be excited to see their friends, and they will talk, share items, and do all the things they missed doing on the bus, and this will be great for their emotional health. Eventually some of them will take off their masks, because one or two kids didn't come with one to begin with, and who's scared of this thing anyway?
And so, before 10am, you have had your first super-spreader event in the district. No, the kids may not all get sick, but a few of them will. A few of those will die, as we've seen in news reports. They probably won't be your child, so this does not matter to you. It is a sacrifice you were prepared to make.
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Kids will enter school. If this is done in a staggered manner, we will lose significant instructional time. Kids will sit at their desks, and if they are in a Title I school where most parents can not afford to stay home and support kids during Digital Learning, we will have at least 80% of the population in the classroom. A classroom with truly socially distanced desks can seat about 8 people. Realistically, we will have 25-30 children packed together. Some of them will play with their masks or, if their parents are anti-mask, they will refuse to have those masks on.
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A teacher will now have to teach in a classroom where they are no longer allowed to have group activities, so vital for young learners, unless they are in a contactless digital format. Hopefully the school will have enough computers for those students without their own devices. Hopefully the teacher will be able to maneuver quickly enough to stop students from Snapchatting their friends, or logging on to any number of non-educational websites, so that they can do their lesson.
A teacher will also have to choose between instructing effectively and protecting themselves and the people they may care for at home. Proximity is key to classroom management. Social distancing is not compatible with it. Students who do not wear masks may see reduced teacher attention, because again, teachers are being asked to choose between their health and their effectiveness.
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Lunchtime arrives. Students have to take their masks off to eat. In my district, we will be eating in classrooms, and my school's windows do not open. Staggered lunches do not help once the masks are off and students are eating and talking and, because they miss their friends, clustering together. A teacher will have to choose between eating, separating students, and their health.
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Time to change classes. If students are the ones transitioning, instead of a teacher rotating between classrooms, we lose valuable instructional time to sanitizing. Do we have enough wipes and sprays to sanitize four or more times a day? Hopefully you donated some, because now a teacher may have to choose between their finances and *everyone's* health.
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Novel study time. Do we have enough books for 100+ middle schoolers? Don't make me laugh. Every student will need to sanitize before and after touching a book. You won't pay for ebooks and you won't pay for physical books, but we hope you will donate hand sanitizer.
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Chorus. Orchestra. Music. Band. These teachers are talking about reducing class sizes to 80+. *Reducing* them. For their safety.
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Time to go home. Students get on the bus again. A second super-spreader event occurs across the district.
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Now, let's talk about how things go after Day 1:
A child tests positive for COVID-19. The parents fear retaliation from peers and do not report it to the school; they just keep their child at home and hope it blows over.
A child is sick with fever. A parent gives them Tylenol and sends them to school.
A child who interacted with the child whose parents did not report tests positive and parents report this. Students and teachers that interacted with the child have to quarantine for 14 days. That's 14 days of the Digital Learning we were trying to avoid in the first place. In middle school, if a teacher tests positive, that will mean 100+ kids are staying home with parents, and all of their teachers, too. This will happen again and again. All of the promised consistency, routine, structure, everything you wanted for your children, is gone, and you are not prepared to help them with DL.
A child in a community with high COVID-19 exposure becomes sick with MIS-C. More children contract MIS-C. This was a sacrifice you did not realize you were making, but it does not affect your child, so it does not concern you.
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Now for the community spread.
The virus will find many opportunities to flourish in a school, no matter how carefully the teachers and staff strive to curb it. The resources simply are not being given to them. Children will spread the virus to parents, siblings, grandparents (especially in multigenerational homes), and inevitably, people who shop and work outside of their homes. The spike we see now, that began in June, will pale in comparison to what follows.
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And some teachers, nurses, custodians, and principals will die. But that's a footnote to you; what about the learning outcomes? The academic gains?
Well? What will those be?
 

bbodb1

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Same here. 40 percent of Chicago teachers don’t want to return to classrooms.

Our elementary schools are all rolling out their plans. Most parents seems fairly satisfied with the options. None of the high schools have announced yet. Due to the large population at these schools they are struggling to work with the regulations.
 

isisdave

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My gut feeling is that back-to-physical-school is going to make Fourth-of-July-on-the-beach look mild. I don't know that the kids are going to spread it or be symptomatic, but the adults will.

In the countries that have successfully sent kids back, the infection rate was reduced to almost nothing first, and tracing was put in place. In many, if not most places, we're not in that position yet.

I think there will be a big shortage of teachers and staff. Many are in an age or health category that will keep them home. The supply of substitutes will be smaller for the same reason, plus the fact that a LOT of them are retired teachers who teach because they like to; SIL retired a few years ago and she says "I'd have to be crazy to do that."

As I said, this isn't anything more than a guess based on what's happened so far. I don't want to be right. I agree that kids need to be in school for social and emotional reasons, and so that their parents can go to their jobs. I sure hope I'm not right. But so far, pretty much nothing has gone better than expected.
 

Ken555

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This subject is about to get a lot of attention.
As an example, see the current situation in Los Angeles:


Yup. It's been already discussed at length on Facebook and elsewhere by others I know in LA, including a friend who is a teacher at a local high school and on the school's committee tasked with making their reopening plans. It's not easy for anyone.
 

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My gut feeling is that back-to-physical-school is going to make Fourth-of-July-on-the-beach look mild. I don't know that the kids are going to spread it or be symptomatic, but the adults will.

In the countries that have successfully sent kids back, the infection rate was reduced to almost nothing first, and tracing was put in place. In many, if not most places, we're not in that position yet.
Both statements need revision IMO. Kids do not generally transmit the virus and the adults can be careful like all the other professions that have to work.
Most countries that reopened did it at a time when the new number of cases was the same or higher than the day they closed. But most importantly, the number of cases continued to go down after opening which proves that schools are not a major factor in transmission.
 

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I don’t know how you guys feel but this whole COVID thing is starting to bug me just a tad!
 

Ken555

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I don’t know how you guys feel but this whole COVID thing is starting to bug me just a tad!

It bothered me "a tad" back in Feb. Now it's just absurd, top to bottom (at least in the US).
 

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It bothered me "a tad" back in Feb. Now it's just absurd, top to bottom (at least in the US).
Yeh, I hear ya, unfortunately I’m one of those “long haulers”. 5 months later and I still have days of “stuff”. I wish the thing was poof gone!
 

DannyTS

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Yeh, I hear ya, unfortunately I’m one of those “long haulers”. 5 months later and I still have days of “stuff”. I wish the thing was poof gone!
I am not comparing but I had flues in the past with symptoms that lingered for a very long time. I did not even know if it was the same one or I started another one. Bronchitis usually shows symptoms for 3 months or longer. We were sick most of the winter when both my kids were together in daycare for the first time. Some days were better than others but I do not think we had two weeks back to back when we were perfectly fine. A long Canadian winter I should add.
 

CPNY

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I am not comparing but I had flues in the past with symptoms that lingered for a very long time. I did not even know if it was the same one or I started another one. Bronchitis usually shows symptoms for 3 months or longer. We were sick most of the winter when both my kids were together in daycare for the first time. Some days were better than others but I do not think we had two weeks back to back when we were perfectly fine. A long Canadian winter I should add.
Shortness of breath and odd chest pains I’ve never felt before COVID. Been reaching for air all day today. It comes and goes. There were times in Florida i was fine and then nights I nearly fell off the couch trying to get a breath. All last week I had the chest pains which were gone for over a month. I’ve taken 3 covid tests and all negative thankfully. I may get another this week just to be certain. But that’s just it, the symptoms in many people are lingering for months. From what I’ve been reading in a Facebook group I’m in, I’m actually not bad at all.....some people are banged up pretty badly 5 months in. They still get fevers, yikes.
 

bluehende

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Shortness of breath and odd chest pains I’ve never felt before COVID. Been reaching for air all day today. It comes and goes. There were times in Florida i was fine and then nights I nearly fell off the couch trying to get a breath. All last week I had the chest pains which were gone for over a month. I’ve taken 3 covid tests and all negative thankfully. I may get another this week just to be certain. But that’s just it, the symptoms in many people are lingering for months. From what I’ve been reading in a Facebook group I’m in, I’m actually not bad at all.....some people are banged up pretty badly 5 months in. They still get fevers, yikes.
In my wide circle of people I know who have had covid 2 of 8 are like you. One is young and is probably better off. He exercised regularly and is still unable to exert himself at all. The other is older and sounds just like you with ups and downs fairly extreme. Sending good thoughts your way for your health and peace of mind. I cann't imagine living with this that long.
 

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In my wide circle of people I know who have had covid 2 of 8 are like you. One is young and is probably better off. He exercised regularly and is still unable to exert himself at all. The other is older and sounds just like you with ups and downs fairly extreme. Sending good thoughts your way for your health and peace of mind. I cann't imagine living with this that long.
Thank you. It’s amazing how you can be fine for a few days then spend a whole night huffing and puffing.
 

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As I mentioned above, here in IL the school districts are all rolling out their back to school plans. Most of the elementary districts have done so. High schools are slower to follow.

Most districts, too, have conducted surveys with parents to get the feel for what they want. This is from one of the larger high school districts. I'm stunned to see that 80% want full in-person learning (survey graphic got cut off, but that's what the blue means).

From what I can tell, every district is presenting some sort of 100% e-learning from home option for those who want it. However, once you make your choice for what you want for the upcoming you, your child is "locked in" -- there is no flipping around from option A to option B.



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I read this and it might make sense for younger grades to stay closed. However, it seems teachers of high school grades could easily social distance. I feel that school is an essential service. I am blown away that teachers do not want to return to the classroom and cite safety reasons. IMHO, even pre-Covid, teachers have not done a great job at teaching and Covid is showing how much they do not want to be in the classroom.
 

Ken555

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I am blown away that teachers do not want to return to the classroom and cite safety reasons.

Before I respond to this opinion, I want to confirm that this is really what you meant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Before I respond to this opinion, I want to confirm that this is really what you meant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I am questioning that as well.
 

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Before I respond to this opinion, I want to confirm that this is really what you meant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes this is what I really meant. I think school is an essential service. If grocery workers can work, why can’t teachers. I can understand elementary school teachers having trouble with social distancing but what about high school students? They do not run up to teachers and blow their noses.
 

Luanne

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Yes this is what I really meant. I think school is an essential service. If grocery workers can work, why can’t teachers. I can understand elementary school teachers having trouble with social distancing but what about high school students? They do not run up to teachers and blow their noses.
First of all the concern is for the students as well as the teacher. Second, did the teacher say they were not going to return to the classroom?

Teaching can be done virtually. Grocery shopping cannot. And I'm betting that in BOTH professions there are people who are questioning going to work for safety and health concerns.

Maybe high school students don't run up to teacher and blow their noses, but high school students have been known to exhibit some pretty stupid behaviors.
 

Luanne

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Completely political post. This author has an axe to grind with Betsy DeVos and POTUS.
Sorry, I didn't see it as political. I saw this as a teacher, frustrated by the information coming from the top goes against what this teacher feels is unsafe.
 

Luanne

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Right here towards the end....

View attachment 23517
Yes, I saw that. Your point? It doesn't have to be political. It's a teacher railing against people WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A CLASSROOM making decisions that affect teachers, staff and the students.
 
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