ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[Saintsfanfl]

Thanks for this info. I find this extremely interesting.
I presume that in order to pass, that the owner needs to pay for the closing costs.

The buyer can still pay for closing. Closing costs are not considered part of the purchase price and does not have to be included in the "gift". The term used on the contract is "The selling price is GIFTED, exclusive of closing cost". Then the next statement specifies who is paying what on the closing costs.

 

[csodjd]

Just passed ROFR -- Maui Ocean Club Napili/Lahaina, 2-bedroom, ocean front, EOY, $13,500, buyer paying closing costs.

 

[JIMinNC]

Interesting how things have thinned out for resale listings on the Marriott resale site, at least for Maui. Only one listing for the old and one for the new buildings.

The rarely seen one is a 3BR 8th floor, week 16, in the Napili tower at $76K. Seller will net, what, $43K? Bet it would sell quicker, just listed on Redweek at $45-50K due to floor level.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.co...5DA13O0xPk040KmNqviPPTFXXsa8LNZBoCU8YQAvD_BwE

As far as Inventory shown on the site goes, I was told by Resale operations that they have more inventory than is shown on the website. The problem I guess is finding out what they have or at what price.

I'm fairly certain that if you ask at a sales office they would be able to provide lots more options for an MOC week.

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I have now been told by two people - one an external broker and the other a representative inside Marriott Resales - that one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. I can't verify that in any way, but just reporting what I was told.

 

[catharsis]

I have now been told by two people - one an external broker and the other a representative inside Marriott Resales - that one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. I can't verify that in any way, but just reporting what I was told.

Very easy to check. Someone who owns a week not currently shown as available on the website should enquire about listing their week with resale operations (which does not in any way commit you to selling to Marriott or anyone else as far as I can recall)

When they tell you that there is a waiting list you will have confirmed that the Marriott resale online list is incomplete.

If anyone could obtain a copy of the list available through a sales office that would be really useful also.

I wonder could one simply ask the resale broker operation for a list of available inventory?.. Express an interest in possibly buying a week?


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[Saintsfanfl]

I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

one reason the Hawaii inventory has disappeared on the Marriott Resales site is Marriott bought those weeks. Supposedly they are also buying units back before they get listed, which is why no new inventory is appearing right now. .

Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?

 

[JIMinNC]

Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?

That was the implication from the person in Marriott Resales. Again, no independent confirmation. So, take it for what it is.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Are they buying MOC Hawaii to add to their DC points inventory?

If they are indeed buying it then that is the only thing they do, which is add to the DC. Marriott never buys a week to resell. All of their resales are them acting as the real estate transaction broker between buyer and seller.

 

[catharsis]

I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).

That was my impression also.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[JIMinNC]

I can assure you that there are loads of units that are not online but they are also not taking any listings or buying back, they have plenty of the inventory. For whatever reason the website is either slow to be updated with new list prices or they are just not telling the truth (which happens).

If this is true then why would the sales person at Marriott Resales that I spoke with today (a person who is incented to sell inventory) not offer me anything to buy when I expressed interest in Maui Ocean Club? All she said is hopefully inventory will increase when 2018 maintenance fees are billed. I'm mainly focusing my search on external resales, but used the opportunity to call and inquire with Marriott Resales and to see what their explanation was for the drop in online inventory.

They clearly have inventory in other places - Orlando, Hilton Head, and Myrtle Beach appear the most numerous.

 

[jeepie]

They are showing some, albeit limited, availability. Both MOC and Kauai Beach Club.

https://t.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/buy-weeks.shtml

But, nothing at Waiohai is showing. For what it's worth, when I recently bought a Waiohai week 52 thru them, I was told it was the last one they would be selling. The implication was, they would be exercising ROFR. Who knows if that is true. But, I haven't seen any more of them listed since then. Cheers.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

If this is true then why would the sales person at Marriott Resales that I spoke with today (a person who is incented to sell inventory) not offer me anything to buy when I expressed interest in Maui Ocean Club? All she said is hopefully inventory will increase when 2018 maintenance fees are billed. I'm mainly focusing my search on external resales, but used the opportunity to call and inquire with Marriott Resales and to see what their explanation was for the drop in online inventory.

They clearly have inventory in other places - Orlando, Hilton Head, and Myrtle Beach appear the most numerous.

I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.

It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.

 

[VacationForever]

I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.

It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.

That was exactly my experience. The sales office controls what they offer as a bundle for each DC point level.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am not saying they have every unit at every resort, but they certainly have units that are not listed on their site. I know because I have several that do not show up and they are also not taking listings because they have too many. My gut tells me they are changing methods and trying to steer resales to certain units that they want either moved or packaged as a hybrid.

It is likely that they do not have much at MOC but I am not so sure the salesperson you talked to truly has an incentive to sell. I do not know for sure but I do not believe the inside reps that work in the resale office get any commission.

Are you saying you have MOC listings that don't show up?

As I said, they definitely have plenty of inventory in many locations, it just appears that for whatever reason, they are no longer taking new listings for the Hawaii properties. All MKO and Waiohai inventory is now gone and all that is available are the two expensive fixed weeks at MOC and two 1BR categories at KBC. This contrasts with the past when almost every view category/unit size was listed for MOC and the other Hawaii resorts. I can't believe that sales have increased so much that they can't keep the Hawaii inventory in stock. Something appears to have changed in their approach to the Hawaii weeks.

It is also interesting that you are being told they have too many listings. Their sales people I've talked to in the last three months have said just the opposite - inventory is "historically low" across all categories.

 

[Wahoo]

Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801. I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Are you saying you have MOC listings that don't show up?

Not at all, I am saying I have other properties that are both not showing up, and they are stating they are loaded with plenty of inventory. I do not believe that inventory is historically low right now. It very well may have been 3 months ago, but not right now. It is historically very high. Sept is a very slow selling season across multiple sales offices which slows the resale week sales down. On top of this the Hurricane pretty much killed the already slow Florida sales offices. They move more inventory in Florida than any other place and this caused a halt to the steady move of the inventory.

There are other reasons why inventory does not show on the resale site besides no current units to list. Sometimes things are taken down because of price notice changes and it takes a while for it to come back up. If they have 50 of a given unit type not under contract and the price changes they suddenly have zero because they have to contact the owners listing and see if they are ok with the price decrease.

For the first time ever I witnessed the resale department willing to negotiate a price with a buyer rather than the "take it or leave it" list price but I believe a real salesperson at a sales office was the one pushing the buttons.

 

[Seaport104]

Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801. I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.

WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!

 

[Beachspace]

WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!

My research has shown me about $5,000 for a unit like this and $6500-$7500 for Oceanfront. Gold is about $2000-$3000 so he got a good deal, about 30% off in my opinion depending on who pays closing costs.

Good job! Singer island is a nice relaxing place for families/couples and OP has lots of activities every day.

 

[dioxide45]

Just received notice that my Ocean Pointe 2br Platinum oceanside purchase just passed ROFR at $3,801. I really didn't think I'd make it through ROFR at that price so am pleasantly surprised.

Be sure to add it to www.rofr.net.

 

[Wahoo]

Be sure to add it to www.rofr.net.

Will do.

WOW! Where did you manage to find one of those even at that price! Congrats!!

Thanks! I snagged it on eBay. The auction ended right around the time of all the hurricane mayhem last month, which probably scared some potential buyers away. Still, I was surprised it didn't go for more, especially since the seller covered all closing costs. I was also surprised it made it through ROFR, as the lowest posted sale on ROFR.net was $8k, and one failed to pass ROFR at $8500. One from 10 years ago was even listed as failing ROFR at $23,000, although I find that somewhat hard to believe.

 

[dioxide45]

Will do.


Thanks! I snagged it on eBay. The auction ended right around the time of all the hurricane mayhem last month, which probably scared some potential buyers away. Still, I was surprised it didn't go for more, especially since the seller covered all closing costs. I was also surprised it made it through ROFR, as the lowest posted sale on ROFR.net was $8k, and one failed to pass ROFR at $8500. One from 10 years ago was even listed as failing ROFR at $23,000, although I find that somewhat hard to believe.

Before 2007, we paid about $7000 for a gold 2BR Grande Vista. These go for less than $1000 these days and were at one time going for free or close to it. The market took a huge hit after the real estate market crash and never really recovered.

 

[willfly13]

*** 5/1/16 - This link to the current, active ROFR database is added with the OP's permission: ROFR Experiences (www.rofr.net) ***

All,

I have had a few PMs asking me to compute ROFR metrics for various offers, which I am happy to do, and also asking for the history of this unofficial metric. The following thread is where we collected the data (such as it is).

I've taken the Points Value spreadsheet that TUGgers helped compile a couple of years back, and computed the ROFR metric for all weeks.

Accordingly, the attached is a hypothetical price of what should clear ROFR, if the metric can predict a ROFR exercise.

Please note, this approach is imperfect and I would hate to see a TUGger increase their bid based solely on this -- please make an offer price of what the week is worth to you. And please consult with a broker on what has been passing ROFR lately, they will have the most current information.

Anyone can compute their own ROFR metric:

1) Start with the DC Points that the underlying week is worth (example: 3,000 DC Points)
2) Multiply #1 by $10 per point (representing how much Marriott can sell the related points for if they ROFR it and deposit to the Trust -- example: 3,000 * $10/point = $30,000)
3) Take your Offer Price ($5,000?) and divide it by the result of #2 (example: $5,000 / $30,000 = 16.6%)
4) The resulting percentage will likely be between 5% - 35%.

My theory is that weeks where #4 is less than 23% have a greater probability of not passing ROFR than if #4 is greater than 23%. It is based on the linked thread up above.

I welcome comments, corrections and more recent data. Good luck!

Best,

Greg

Hi Greg,
I found this helpful, but wonder how much has changed in 18 months. This was posted in May of 2016, right? Any new info on ROFR?

Linda

 

[RussellSun]

Is there a database where we can see what has passed and failed ROFR? I saw a spreadsheet on TUG a while back but I don't recall where anymore.

 

[1st Class]

Welcome to TUG.

Here's the link from the 1st page of this thread http://www.rofr.net/

 

[Steve Fatula]

Was it actually submitted at a $2.50 pp valuation? I see a recent entry on www.rofr.net at $2.75 that failed.

Sort of. It was more than $2.50 with seller paying *all* buyer and seller closing costs, transfer fees, etc. Thus, it was whatever per point that comes out to. But the cost to me for the points only was $2.50 and essentially I paid the usual costs via a "higher" offer. My understanding is that if Marriott exercised the ROFR, they would pay the seller the much higher cost.