ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[bazzap]

All,

Marriott exercised their Right of First Refusal for the sale of my Trust Points. I had sold them for $4.50 per point, and Marriott exercised the ROFR within 4 days of receiving the request. They've indicated they will take up to 90 days to close the transaction.

So.....for those of you looking to buy points, you need to offer more than $4.50 per point.

Best,

Greg

This sure tells a story about MVC's intent Greg.
Straight back on sale at $12.66, or rather the new increased price (whatever that may be)

 

[tmoscola]

Marriott ROFR

Has Marriott been exercising their ROFR recently?


Thanks Sue! I knew there was a post on here in the past but couldn't find it

 

[GregT]

Has Marriott been exercising their ROFR recently?


Thanks Sue! I knew there was a post on here in the past but couldn't find it

Yes, they have been very active. If you read some of the previous posts, you will see that it is becoming very common to have ROFR exercised.

Best,

Greg

 

[scpoidog]

Refuse the ROFR?

Yes, they have been very active. If you read some of the previous posts, you will see that it is becoming very common to have ROFR exercised.

Best,

Greg

Greg,

I know as a seller is shouldn't matter because you get the price that you want, but do you have the option of pulling out of the deal with Marriott in order to:

1. Get more money out of the turned down buyer
2. Keep the points or week out of Marriott's hands.

Just wondering what options you have as a seller. Thanks.

 

[BOC]

Marriott ROFR Mountainside

Just notified that Marriott exercised the ROFR on a Mountainside Gold (Summer) week at $5,000. The broker said that it is the first one they had seen and must be a sign that they need the weeks.

 

[Fasttr]

Just notified that Marriott exercised the ROFR on a Mountainside Gold (Summer) week at $5,000. The broker said that it is the first one they had seen and must be a sign that they need the weeks.

That would be a 20% ratio using GregT's metric, which indicates more likelihood of MVC exercising ROFR.

 

[AlmostRetired]

Just won a Grand Chateau EOY Odd on eBay for 1725, seller pays the fees. no way this passes ROFR. This is my first attempt on EBay....maybe my last. Looking for a trader but it is a waste of time winning low.

 

[Kwigib0]

Marriott ROFR

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to share that I recently purchased a EOYE 2br lockoff in the Grand Chateau through TUG for $2000 + closing.
After reading the posts in this thread and following the matrix, it didn't seem likely for Marriott to waive the ROFR. But to my pleasant surprise, they issued the waiver in 2 or 3 days.
Now just waiting for the completion of closing, and to plan a holiday.:whoopie:

 

[AlmostRetired]

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to share that I recently purchased a EOYE 2br lockoff in the Grand Chateau through TUG for $2000 + closing.
After reading the posts in this thread and following the matrix, it didn't seem likely for Marriott to waive the ROFR. But to my pleasant surprise, they issued the waiver in 2 or 3 days.
Now just waiting for the completion of closing, and to plan a holiday.:whoopie:

Interesting... for 1000 more than my auction win, I have a good chance of getting it. I might discuss increasing the price.

 

[Kwigib0]

Interesting... for 1000 more than my auction win, I have a good chance of getting it. I might discuss increasing the price.

Because of the chance of ROFR. I did not want to pay for the application cause if Marroitt had exercised I would have been out of pocket and nothing to show for it. So the seller pre paid $50 to the closing company and if ROFR was waived, I agreed to pay it back to them.
Therefore the ROFR was submitted with the purchase price of $2050 only as far as I can tell... So it's only $300 more than you won the auction for...



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[AlmostRetired]

The closing fees at the Chateau is 750. The selling fees are contained within the winning bid price so my 1750 is 1000 for seller, the rest for closing.

Did your 2000 include the closing fees (waiver fee aside).

 

[Kwigib0]

The closing fees at the Chateau is 750. The selling fees are contained within the winning bid price so my 1750 is 1000 for seller, the rest for closing.

Did your 2000 include the closing fees (waiver fee aside).

Based on info I have learned on the forums here, the Closing fees are mostly whatever the closing company choose to charge for them, rather than based on the property. There are certain fees associated to the property, for example, fee for ROFR, and transfer of ownership through Marriott, however these fees are not that expensive. The rest is for the closing company to prepare docs, postage, county recording fees and fee for escrow(if used) etc.
Ebay sales tend to come with a requirement to use their closing company, who tend to be a bit more expensive than others.
In saying all that, my purchase was $2000 plus closing, but the Waiver document that I received only had the purchase price on it plus $50 that I arranged to pay back to the seller for ROFR.
From what I have read, most closing companies will include the closing costs in the submission for ROFR, so there is a good chance that yours will be submitted at $1725, but I recommend discussing this with the closing company to be sure you have the best chance.

Best of luck and I hope it passes for you.

 

[AlmostRetired]

Passed ROFR Grand Chateau EOY Odd.. LT 10%

Waiver was received today. 2 Bedroom EOY Odd for $1725. The seller pays all closing costs. Using 3350 points for a 2 BR @ 12.66 per point divided by 2 for EYO puts this at 21,206. This is puts the price at below 10%. Never thought it would pass. I was going to raise my price but the person I bought this from on ebay told me he had a 90% confidence level it would pass as is.

Friday, I called the resale department and questioned them on how long it actually takes for ROFR action and confirmed that the Chateau ROFR needs to be done in 15 days. I gave them no personal info since I was just trying to get a gauge. They put me hold and when they came back, they confirmed that the Chateau is in fact 15 days for ROFR and all request for waivers submitted as of Monday (10/12) have been responded too.

Is there something going on at the resort that I am unaware of?

 

[samara64]

I have seen Grand Chateau pass at low prices before but not sure why. I also do not see Marriott resales offering them on the Marriott website as one of the choices.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I have seen Grand Chateau pass at low prices before but not sure why. I also do not see Marriott resales offering them on the Marriott website as one of the choices.

I called the Marriott Resale department to find out why they do not resell the Chateau. Turns out that Marriott is not licensed to resell timeshares in Nevada. They can only sell new as the developer or purchase to add into the trust for DC point usage.

My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy DC point usage. If this is the case, why add more by executing ROFR often. There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.

 

[GregT]

I called the Marriott Resale department to find out why they do not resell the Chateau. Turns out that Marriott is not licensed to resell timeshares in Nevada. They can only sell new as the developer or purchase to add into the trust for DC point usage.

My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy DC point usage. If this is the case, why add more by executing ROFR often. There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.

That's interesting -- there is a lot of Grand Chateau in the Trust -- it currently constitutes 15% of the entire Trust (51M points out of 331M total). So perhaps they are intentionally limiting adding more from ROFR.

Might be an opportunity to buy a trading property at a lower price?

Best,

Greg

 

[taterhed]

Shhhhh... Don't tell, they'll hear you.


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[nygiants11991]

Does Marriott take into consideration the cost of closing cost fees when they consider ROFR? I ask because if the seller wants the buyer to pay closing, it may be a good idea to increase the sale price by the closing costs and request the seller to pay the closing cost. The seller would net the sale price and the buyer may have a better chance of the sale passing.

 

[taterhed]

Does Marriott take into consideration the cost of closing cost fees when they consider ROFR? I ask because if the seller wants the buyer to pay closing, it may be a good idea to increase the sale price by the closing costs and request the seller to pay the closing cost. The seller would net the sale price and the buyer may have a better chance of the sale passing.

When ROFR is executed by the Developer (Marriott in this case) they agree to step in for the buyer and execute the contract as specified. This includes all the terms agreed upon between the seller and (original) buyer. Any fees or stipulations should be paid as specified. BUT....

The terms of the contract must be legal, reasonable and have tangible value: never construct/sign a contract you have no intention of fully executing (IMHO). Many in this forum have opined that you could 'make up' any terms you wish in the contract language in an effort to defeat ROFR or increase the buyer's net or ??? (cheat Marriott). ROFR is not a concept that is solely limited to timeshares. In other venues, courts have ruled that ambiguous terms can be assigned a specific value (1 cow= XXX dollars) and that impossible constructs (closing will occur in 1 day) are not to be invoked to end-run the law. Additionally, any terms specified in the contract could potentially be enforced by interested parties (be careful what you agree to).

In summary: It makes sense to include any and all costs associated in the deal into the contract so that if M. elects to exercise ROFR, all parties will receive the money they expect (think closing costs, commissions to brokers etc...) and to increase the likelihood that the intended buyer will get the property, not mother Marriott. Of course, this is all small potatoes. If the corporation wants the property for the trust or ??? they will simply execute ROFR. $1000 is nothing to a large corporation that could simply flip the unit for 5x times the price/points/rental etc...

cheers (I am not a lawyer and my advice is worth every penny you pay; zero )

 

[AlmostRetired]

That's interesting -- there is a lot of Grand Chateau in the Trust -- it currently constitutes 15% of the entire Trust (51M points out of 331M total). So perhaps they are intentionally limiting adding more from ROFR.

Might be an opportunity to buy a trading property at a lower price?

Best,

Greg

A tug member posted earlier that they got an EOY for 2000 plus closing cost. I got it for 1725 including all closing costs and fees. I agree, I think there is a window right now for good deals for this property. Though my 24 and 27 year old sons think differently, I purchased this as a trader (studio and 1 br). I am thinking of getting a second EOY.

 

[Kwigib0]

Waiver was received today. 2 Bedroom EOY Odd for $1725. The seller pays all closing costs. Using 3350 points for a 2 BR @ 12.66 per point divided by 2 for EYO puts this at 21,206. This is puts the price at below 10%. Never thought it would pass. I was going to raise my price but the person I bought this from on ebay told me he had a 90% confidence level it would pass as is.

Friday, I called the resale department and questioned them on how long it actually takes for ROFR action and confirmed that the Chateau ROFR needs to be done in 15 days. I gave them no personal info since I was just trying to get a gauge. They put me hold and when they came back, they confirmed that the Chateau is in fact 15 days for ROFR and all request for waivers submitted as of Monday (10/12) have been responded too.

Is there something going on at the resort that I am unaware of?

Congrats on passing ROFR.... I thought mine was good value but you bettered me.


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[curbysplace]

My guess is Marriott has enough inventory to satisfy DC point usage. If this is the case, why add more by executing ROFR often. There has to be some reason this passed with a ratio 9 percent.

The new third tower villas are all in the Trust. When (if) they build the fourth tower those villas will all be in the Trust too. As Greg said (1) Marriott has plenty of Grand Chateau Trust inventory and that (2) this may be a great time to pick up platinum weeks buying relatively inexpensive Grand Chateau weeks that in all likelihood will pass ROFR.

 

[NTP66]

Just to add a data point here, Marriott just waived their ROFR on my 2BR OV EOEY unit at MOC (MMO), which I paid $8300 for.

 

[Southerngirl528]

Just to add a data point here, Marriott just waived their ROFR on my 2BR OV EOEY unit at MOC (MMO), which I paid $8300 for.

Wow, NTP66! That's awesome! Congratulations!! That sounds like a pretty good deal, yes? And MMO is the original portion of Maui Ocean Club? (you'd think I would know since I have 3 weeks, but all in Napili. )

It seems the prices at this resort for resales have gone up a LOT since the beginning of the year. We would still love to acquire a fixed week in one of the new towers, but it would need to be during the first 8 weeks of the year and those prices are insane right now!

Congrats again, Ntp66!

 

[NTP66]

Wow, NTP66! That's awesome! Congratulations!! That sounds like a pretty good deal, yes? And MMO is the original portion of Maui Ocean Club? (you'd think I would know since I have 3 weeks, but all in Napili. )

It seems the prices at this resort for resales have gone up a LOT since the beginning of the year. We would still love to acquire a fixed week in one of the new towers, but it would need to be during the first 8 weeks of the year and those prices are insane right now!

Congrats again, Ntp66!

Thanks, and yes, this is all in the original towers. I've been tracking prices for nearly 3 years now (solely on Redweek), and prices are actually pretty low to me. Only once did I see a 2BR OV unit go for less than what I just paid, and there's even a 1BR OV listed for $3500, which means it can likely be had for $3k (whether that'd pass ROFR is another story, though my 1BR OV did pass at $4k).

Prices for the new towers are still insane, though. My wife gave me the death glare when I broached the topic of considering one in the Napili Tower, so that was the end of that, lol.