ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[Vacation fun]

What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?

 

[dioxide45]

What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?

Marriott no longer has an active buyback program. The only weeks they take back are through ROFR or through forclosure of MF or loan payments. Weeks they take back through any means get put in to the MVC DC Trust to be resold as points.

See www.rofr.net to see recent Grande Vista reports.

 

[GM600]

What is the resent ROFR for Grand Vista, 2 bedroom plantium annual that had passed? Also does anyone know what Marriott does with the units that do not pass ROFR that they buy?

I had a realtor that recently told me they had one fail at $1,500 so the next one they did at $1,600 and it passed.

 

[Vacation fun]

I had a realtor that recently told me they had one fail at $1,500 so the next one they did at $1,600 and it passed.

 

[Vacation fun]

Thanks

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I haven't paid less than $2,000 for Grande Vista Platinum but all mine have passed.

On buybacks, they do still do them but only for very very few weeks, and most of those are probably $1 deedbacks. They recently offered me $6,800 net for Barony Platinum, which is double what they offered about a month ago. I thought the initial was laughable and the increase surprising. They also offered $1 for Lakeshore Premier Platinum and $1 for another that I don't remember. No buybacks for Grande Vista.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

To put ROFR inconsistency in perspective, my Barony Platinum purchase passed at a verifiable $4,500. Marriott immediately offered a direct buyback at less than $4,000. I don't remember the exact number but it was more than $3,000. Then a little over a month later they offer me $6,800 net. I assume that if the ROFR was submitted today it would fail at the $4,500.

 

[Joeten5]

Does anyone have thoughts on the possibility that Marriott may let some lower priced sales slide through based on a particular buyers history or ownership metrics? Lets say someone buys a Legacy Week(s) and or Trust points at retail from Marriott, then educates themselves here and puts an offer in for X amount of Trust Points. Given the fact that the buyer must supply their personal information and Marriott will obviously see it, perhaps maybe they'd be more inclined to let a 2.25/pt deal slide on through?

 

[mjm1]

Does anyone have thoughts on the possibility that Marriott may let some lower priced sales slide through based on a particular buyers history or ownership metrics? Lets say someone buys a Legacy Week(s) and or Trust points at retail from Marriott, then educates themselves here and puts an offer in for X amount of Trust Points. Given the fact that the buyer must supply their personal information and Marriott will obviously see it, perhaps maybe they'd be more inclined to let a 2.25/pt deal slide on through?

I don't think that would matter. They will exercise ROFR if it makes financial sense for them to do so. They will buy cheap inventory any time they can when the circumstances make sense for them.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[Joeten5]

Has anyone had experience buying for one price from a broker who, in-turn, supplies a contract for another much higher price to Marriott and, in-turn, supplies the buyer with an"addendum" to the contract that specifically states the buyer is only responsible for the agreed upon lower purchase price upon closing, and the seller pays the balance to Marriott?

 

[frank808]

Has anyone had experience buying for one price from a broker who, in-turn, supplies a contract for another much higher price to Marriott and, in-turn, supplies the buyer with an"addendum" to the contract that specifically states the buyer is only responsible for the agreed upon lower purchase price upon closing, and the seller pays the balance to Marriott?

I would walk away from that broker. That constitutes fraud.

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[TXTortoise]

Intriguing, but I'm not sure what Marriott really gains. For ROFR they want the week back, the incremental one-time partial profit would seem to be in consequential.

Will be interesting if anyone can answer the question.

 

[Joeten5]

I would walk away from that broker. That constitutes fraud.

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The broker is legit and been around since at least 2005. I looked them up via corporate database and BBB. They also have 100's of positive feedback from verified buyers on Ebay. It appears they are experts at unloading timeshares or trust points for people who want out at any cost. The person/people unloading essentially pays them what it takes to get that done rather than hanging on to something they aren't using or interested in working with anymore. Marriott gets their money either way.

 

[Joeten5]

Intriguing, but I'm not sure what Marriott really gains. For ROFR they want the week back, the incremental one-time partial profit would seem to be in consequential.

Will be interesting if anyone can answer the question.

It's for a bank of Trust Point interests. The seller pays Marriott the extra funds obtained from the person who in unloading.

 

[frank808]

The broker is legit and been around since at least 2005. I looked them up via corporate database and BBB. They also have 100's of positive feedback from verified buyers on Ebay. It appears they are experts at unloading timeshares or trust points for people who want out at any cost. The person/people unloading essentially pays them what it takes to get that done rather than hanging on to something they aren't using or interested in working with anymore. Marriott gets their money either way.

It is still fraud as marriott is not getting the real terms of the purchase. I am not saying the broker is unlegitimate. It was more along the lines of an unethical broker. If broker is willing to misrepresent something to someone else why wouldn't he do it to me.

Just because they have done transactions with a host of people does not make it right. Could be those other transactions were on the up and up or maybe not.

If the seller is going to get there money either from the buyer or marriott (via rofr), why make a fake purchase contract? The only reason to make a fake purchase contract with a "side deal" is to circumvent rofr.

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[Joeten5]

It is still fraud as marriott is not getting the real terms of the purchase. I am not saying the broker is unlegitimate. It was more along the lines of an unethical broker. If broker is willing to misrepresent something to someone else why wouldn't he do it to me.

Just because they have done transactions with a host of people does not make it right. Could be those other transactions were on the up and up or maybe not.

If the seller is going to get there money either from the buyer or marriott (via rofr), why make a fake purchase contract? The only reason to make a fake purchase contract with a "side deal" is to circumvent rofr.

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I think "fraud" might be a bit of a stretch. It's a simply an "addendum" added to the contract. Whether Marriott sees the contracts addendum, or not, i'm not exactly sure. i can't wrap my thoughts around "unethical" either. If the broker wishes to make a donation, out of the funds it has obviously secured from the original owner, whilst acting as a liaison between the new buyer and Marriott, in order to make the purchase happen, i see nothing wrong with it. In fact, it ends up being a win win win, the broker gets his profit, Marriott gets their money for the points with the added security of collecting MF's again every year on something that may have been in foreclosure? and the new buyer gets what they want at a deeply discounted price....what am i missing?

 

[michael49]

I think "fraud" might be a bit of a stretch. It's a simply an "addendum" added to the contract. Whether Marriott sees the contracts addendum, or not, i'm not exactly sure. i can't wrap my thoughts around "unethical" either. If the broker wishes to make a donation, out of the funds it has obviously secured from the original owner, whilst acting as a liaison between the new buyer and Marriott, in order to make the purchase happen, i see nothing wrong with it. In fact, it ends up being a win win win, the broker gets his profit, Marriott gets their money for the points with the added security of collecting MF's again every year on something that may have been in foreclosure? and the new buyer gets what they want at a deeply discounted price....what am i missing?

I'm an attorney. Trust me, it's at best unethical, and at worst fraudulent.

 

[Joeten5]

I'm an attorney. Trust me, it's at best unethical, and at worst fraudulent.

ethics can be subjective at times, usually without consequence. If you are as you claim, could you please elaborate on what might be fraudulent?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I've never seen the addendum but many brokers will add in their commission or other fees paid by the seller to sell or trade in their timeshare. This is legitimate because those fees are part of the deal. If Marriott exercises then those fees go back to the seller while the broker did all the work and gets to keep their portion.

 

[Joeten5]

I've never seen the addendum but many brokers will add in their commission or other fees paid by the seller to sell or trade in their timeshare. This is legitimate because those fees are part of the deal. If Marriott exercises then those fees go back to the seller while the broker did all the work and gets to keep their portion.

This is exactly what has happened. The original owner obviously agreed upon a price with the broker to get rid of the property, prior to the broker attempting the sale. The broker with the agreed upon price then decides to auction the property at a price point that he is willing to accept at a bare minimum, fully knowing that he will probably need to put up extra cash for the closing if the auction is won at the minimum price. Hence, the addendum to the new buyer stating the amount required from the buyer at closing and also stating what amount the broker will bring to the closing.

 

[michael49]

ethics can be subjective at times, usually without consequence. If you are as you claim, could you please elaborate on what might be fraudulent?

If Marriott does not see the addendum, they might later believe that a fraud was perpetrated.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

This is exactly what has happened. The original owner obviously agreed upon a price with the broker to get rid of the property, prior to the broker attempting the sale. The broker with the agreed upon price then decides to auction the property at a price point that he is willing to accept at a bare minimum, fully knowing that he will probably need to put up extra cash for the closing if the auction is won at the minimum price. Hence, the addendum to the new buyer stating the amount required from the buyer at closing and also stating what amount the broker will bring to the closing.

Doing it all official on paper but then excluding the addendum in the submission to Marriott is probably not a good way to go about it. Most brokers just submit the full amount on the purchase agreement to Marriott. I understand it probably equates to the same result, but one is purposefully not disclosing a signed document that is part of the official purchase agreement.

For those that think the additional fees are not legitimate, think of the buyer in a normal real estate transaction paying more or less than the purchase price by either paying for some of the sellers closing costs or commissions or the seller paying for some of the buyer's closing costs. The purchase price is still the purchase price and that is what is recorded and tax is based on. The actual cash outlay can be different. This is completely normal and happens all the time. The only difference is the unofficial and sloppy nature of the paperwork with timeshares because nobody wants to go through all the labor involved with the small amount of money for a timeshare sale.

 

[frank808]

Doing it all official on paper but then excluding the addendum in the submission to Marriott is probably not a good way to go about it. Most brokers just submit the full amount on the purchase agreement to Marriott. I understand it probably equates to the same result, but one is purposefully not disclosing a signed document that is part of the official purchase agreement.

For those that think the additional fees are not legitimate, think of the buyer in a normal real estate transaction paying more or less than the purchase price by either paying for some of the sellers closing costs or commissions or the seller paying for some of the buyer's closing costs. The purchase price is still the purchase price and that is what is recorded and tax is based on. The actual cash outlay can be different. This is completely normal and happens all the time. The only difference is the unofficial and sloppy nature of the paperwork with timeshares because nobody wants to go through all the labor involved with the small amount of money for a timeshare sale.

Having the addendum is nothing wrong as it is normal. By not including addendum in the paperwork sent to rofr is not normal.

Showing marriott one set of paperwork for a higher sales price and having a seperate agreement to pay a lower price to get around rofr is. That is what op asked. Have no problem if actual sales price is on contract sent to rofr.

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[SueDonJ]

Having the addendum is nothing wrong as it is normal. By not including addendum in the paperwork sent to rofr is not normal.

Showing marriott one set of paperwork for a higher sales price and having a seperate agreement to pay a lower price to get around rofr is. That is what op asked. Have no problem if actual sales price is on contract sent to rofr.

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Yep, I agree, the answer depends on how the sale is presented for ROFR consideration.

ROFR gives Marriott the right to purchase the interval at the same price as the Buyer. If the paperwork submitted for ROFR shows the amount from combining the Buyer's and Broker's shares but does not include the addendum that breaks out the Buyer's actual lower cost, Marriott is missing information that's material to the process.

I've been reading on TUG for years about all the different ways "savvy" buyers and sellers try to circumvent the developers' ROFR. In many cases the folks involved have established businesses and otherwise-good reputations, and it needs to be said that many, many fraudulent ROFR submissions are not caught by the developers. IMO none of that matters. Fraudulent ROFR activity contributes as much or more to the overall poor reputation that timeshares and timeshare owners/developers/managers suffer so I'd prefer that we push back against it regardless of whether we stand to benefit from it or not. And I have no sympathy on the rare occasions that a developer pushes back.

 

[Beachspace]

I'm a Real Estate Broker in Miami.

Not submitting the addendum/hiding it is UNETHICAL and could be grounds for a fraud case. At the very minimum, Marriott could submit a claim to FREC (FL Real estate commission), they would receiving a violation against their license and possibly have it suspended for X amount of months/years.

If the sales price is $1.00 and they charge the seller $1500, then they could submit the ROFR to Marriott at $1$ + $1500 and Marriott would have to match that. But they couldn't submit a contract to Marriott with a separate deal on the side that only the buyer & seller know about.

Regarding the broker's stellar rating on the BBB, I'm sure he does have a good rating. The only people he's 'hurting' is Marriott so they would have to submit a claim to the BBB. The customers are, of course, happy!