Recorded Trust Documents

[dioxide45]

I think tugger cp73 did this a few years ago. It's in the stickies under weeks owners FAQS. It's dated but maybe he's updated it but not posted it yet. I inquired about the number of units at Ocean Pointe a while back and I was told a little over 600. I don't remember the exact number but 600 was close. That sounded high so I went to a sat photo and actually counted the rooms and there were only about 300 as close as I could determine. It seems they count the lockout portion as a separate unit even though they don't sell them singly.

The list by cp73 is also the only one that I am aware of. It looks like the last update was posted in 2009, so rather dated. Not sure if he has continued with updates or not. Perhaps it is something that can be expanded upon and updated by cp73 or anyone else willing.

 

[dioxide45]

dougp26364 has a post from 2009 that listed the specific number of Ocean Pointe units at 60 per main building and 65 for Kingfish for a total of 305 units and 15,860 deeded weeks.

Ocean Pointe deeded weeks per season:
Platinum - 5,795
Gold - 3,965
Silver - 6,100

It looks like CPs list shows 292, though that may have been as a result of the first floor of Sailfish at one time being dedicated to the sale gallery.

 

[GregT]

All,

I found the attached in the Information Statement from SpinCo -- I believe this is comprehensive -- but doesn't show view categories....

Thoughts?

 

[jimf41]

Great info Greg. I'm surprised that it shows Harbor Lake with 588 units to be built. I thought that was and older sold out and completed resort.

 

[fluke]

I was surprised by the Marco Island without any planned units. I thought they were going to build at least one of possibly two more buildings.

 

[dioxide45]

All,

I found the attached in the Information Statement from SpinCo -- I believe this is comprehensive -- but doesn't show view categories....

Thoughts?

Great info Greg. While it doesn't include view types, it can be valuable data for determine what percentage of a resort is in the trust. One challenge I do see is that it looks like they may have combined the counts of some resorts; Manor Club, Maui, Harbour Point/Sunset Pointe are some examples.

Great info Greg. I'm surprised that it shows Harbor Lake with 588 units to be built. I thought that was and older sold out and completed resort.

While it is an older resort, they did just add two new buildings about three years ago. There were always bigger plans for Harbour Lake, but with the Horizons brand not being what they wanted it to be and sale slow, they also opted to slow down adding new units. There is still lots of land available on the site and proposed buildings do show on the resort map.

 

[bazzap]

Really useful info Greg
I guess you didn't see any similar information for Europe and Asia segments?

 

[dioxide45]

All,

I found the attached in the Information Statement from SpinCo -- I believe this is comprehensive -- but doesn't show view categories....

Thoughts?

Looking at this list I am not sure we can assume that all 169 units at Oceana Palms are completed? Jerseyfinn indicated that 72 units were opening when they opened the Sunset tower, but the attachment indicates that there are 78 to be completed units. Perhaps there are to be units where the sales gallery is now? Are all 72 units at Kauai Lagoons also now complete? Also, any idea how many of the 322 to be completed units at Ko'Olina opened when they opened the other half of the Hale Nai'a tower last year?

 

[kyfonky]

So, If I get this right and based on information from the Marriot web-site, can we assume the following?

Grand Chateau has 1,534 suites (it is huge); as the trust has 3,529 weeks, the trust might have 4.5% of total capacity? (1534/ (3,529/52)

If I am right, Newport Coast has 700 suites; the trust has 7,803 week or 21% (a very fair amount).

Timberlodge- 473 suites; the trust has 4,623 weeks or 18.6% (also a fair amount).

Grande Vista has 1,616 suites (also huge resort); the trust has 2,185 week or 2.6%? -very minimal-

BeachPlace Towers has 412 suites; the trust has only 281 weeks or 1.3% -also very minimal amount-

Villas Doral has only 141 suites! (very small resort for the I assume current high demand); the trust has 455 weeks or 6.2%.

Ko-Olina has 949 suites and also the trust has a big amount of week (6,085) that represents only 12.3%.

Am I right? If so, the trust has a lot to do!

 

[dioxide45]

So, If I get this right and based on information from the Marriot web-site, can we assume the following?

Grand Chateau has 1,534 suites (it is huge); as the trust has 3,529 weeks, the trust might have 4.5% of total capacity? (1534/ (3,529/52)

If I am right, Newport Coast has 700 suites; the trust has 7,803 week or 21% (a very fair amount).

Timberlodge- 473 suites; the trust has 4,623 weeks or 18.6% (also a fair amount).

Grande Vista has 1,616 suites (also huge resort); the trust has 2,185 week or 2.6%? -very minimal-

BeachPlace Towers has 412 suites; the trust has only 281 weeks or 1.3% -also very minimal amount-

Villas Doral has only 141 suites! (very small resort for the I assume current high demand); the trust has 455 weeks or 6.2%.

Ko-Olina has 949 suites and also the trust has a big amount of week (6,085) that represents only 12.3%.

Am I right? If so, the trust has a lot to do!

Realize at resorts where the units lock off, like Grand Chateau and Ko'Olina, they are counting each unit as two when you look at the counts on Marriott.com.

 

[dioxide45]

Looking at this list I am not sure we can assume that all 169 units at Oceana Palms are completed? Jerseyfinn indicated that 72 units were opening when they opened the Sunset tower, but the attachment indicates that there are 78 to be completed units. Perhaps there are to be units where the sales gallery is now? Are all 72 units at Kauai Lagoons also now complete? Also, any idea how many of the 322 to be completed units at Ko'Olina opened when they opened the other half of the Hale Nai'a tower last year?

Looking at some Google Images, I think the Sunset tower has 13 livable floors. With 6 units per floor, that would be 78 units added to Oceana Palms with the opening of the Sunset tower.

 

[dioxide45]

New Conveyances

On March 18th and 19th some new conveyances were recorded. Mostly re-acquired stuff, but some developer inventory at Frenchmans's Cove and obviously a big dump at Oceana Palms. One interesting addition is that this is the first time we have seen Streamside inventory added to the trust.

There were 33,153,500 points added to the trust this time around. The new units at Oceana Palms accounted for 14,861,000 of the new points.

Resort..............................Total
Ko'Olina.......................29,433,750
Newport Coast..................25,155,750
Oceana Palms...................21,573,750
Kalanipu'u.....................17,309,000
Timber Lodge...................15,884,000
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail.......10,631,000
Grand Chateau..................10,176,250
Crystal Shores..................9,373,250
Grande Vista....................8,535,500
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........7,132,750
Maui Ocean Club.................6,373,750
Canyon Villas...................4,413,500
Harbour Lake....................3,487,000
Willow Ridge Lodge..............3,264,250
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe......3,237,500
Ocean Watch.....................2,797,750
Ocean Pointe....................2,658,750
Shadow Ridge II.................2,638,250
Cypress Harbour.................2,387,500
Shadow Ridge....................2,288,750
Desert Springs II...............1,919,500
Kauai Beach Club................1,557,750
Frenchman's Cove................1,216,750
Waiohai.........................1,215,250
Desert Springs I................1,194,000
Fairway Villas..................1,037,000
BeachPlace Towers...............1,017,500
Lakeshore Reserve.................999,750
Villas at Doral...................957,000
Mountain Side.....................738,500
Surfwatch.........................730,750
Barony Beach Club.................704,000
Streamside........................682,500
Royal Palms.......................555,500
Legends Edge......................533,000
Sabal Palms.......................495,500
Grande Ocean......................454,000
Summit Watch......................425,250
Mountain Valley Lodge.............374,500
Manor Club........................371,750
Monarch at Sea Pines..............270,250
Imperial Palms....................237,750
Manor Club Sequel.................219,750
Harbour Point.....................219,250
Sunset Pointe......................64,250
Harbour Club.......................59,750
Heritage Club......................46,000
Grand Total...................207,048,750

 

[ilene13]

On March 18th and 19th some new conveyances were recorded. Mostly re-acquired stuff, but some developer inventory at Frenchmans's Cove and obviously a big dump at Oceana Palms. One interesting addition is that this is the first time we have seen Streamside inventory added to the trust.

There were 33,153,500 points added to the trust this time around. The new units at Oceana Palms accounted for 14,861,000 of the new points.

Resort..............................Total
Ko'Olina.......................29,433,750
Newport Coast..................25,155,750
Oceana Palms...................21,573,750
Kalanipu'u.....................17,309,000
Timber Lodge...................15,884,000
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail.......10,631,000
Grand Chateau..................10,176,250
Crystal Shores..................9,373,250
Grande Vista....................8,535,500
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........7,132,750
Maui Ocean Club.................6,373,750
Canyon Villas...................4,413,500
Harbour Lake....................3,487,000
Willow Ridge Lodge..............3,264,250
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe......3,237,500
Ocean Watch.....................2,797,750
Ocean Pointe....................2,658,750
Shadow Ridge II.................2,638,250
Cypress Harbour.................2,387,500
Shadow Ridge....................2,288,750
Desert Springs II...............1,919,500
Kauai Beach Club................1,557,750
Frenchman's Cove................1,216,750
Waiohai.........................1,215,250
Desert Springs I................1,194,000
Fairway Villas..................1,037,000
BeachPlace Towers...............1,017,500
Lakeshore Reserve.................999,750
Villas at Doral...................957,000
Mountain Side.....................738,500
Surfwatch.........................730,750
Barony Beach Club.................704,000
Streamside........................682,500
Royal Palms.......................555,500
Legends Edge......................533,000
Sabal Palms.......................495,500
Grande Ocean......................454,000
Summit Watch......................425,250
Mountain Valley Lodge.............374,500
Manor Club........................371,750
Monarch at Sea Pines..............270,250
Imperial Palms....................237,750
Manor Club Sequel.................219,750
Harbour Point.....................219,250
Sunset Pointe......................64,250
Harbour Club.......................59,750
Heritage Club......................46,000
Grand Total...................207,048,750

I have a question: When the DC program was rolled out, Surfwatch was sold out. At least that is what management said. So, how can there be so many points in the trust for Surfwatch?

 

[dioxide45]

I have a question: When the DC program was rolled out, Surfwatch was sold out. At least that is what management said. So, how can there be so many points in the trust for Surfwatch?

I went back and looked at the individual conveyances to see if they were developer or re-acquired. Here is the breakdown of points between developer inventory and re-acquired inventory.

Developer.....164,750
Re-acquired...566,000

So it appears that the resort wasn't 100% sold out since they did convey some developer inventory to the trust; however, most of the Surfwatch inventory came from re-acquired weeks. Either through buybacks or foreclosure.

 

[ilene13]

Thank you for the information. Here is another question: My guess is that the unsold weeks were gold, silver or bronze. Then the balance were re-acquired weeks weeks which we can assume included some platinum. Unless platinum owners change their weeks for points does that not severely limit the number of "trust" owners that can book Surfwatch during the platinum season? Or does Marriott just look at the points that are in the trust and designate them for whatever season they want? If that is so---some weeks owners could have trouble booking their weeks in the future!

 

[ral]

Trust Points that have been sold?

Is there a source that shows either the percentage or the number of points of the 207,048,750 points that make up the trust that have been sold?

 

[dioxide45]

Percentage of Each Resort in the Trust

I took the number of weeks at each resort conveyed to the trust and compared that to the total number of weeks available for sale at each resort. I was able to capture the number of weeks available from the trust conveyances. Surprisingly not every resort is 52 weeks. Several are only 51 weeks and one resort only sold 50 weeks in each unit.

This is a list of each resort conveyed to the trust and the percentage of each. I was a little surprised by the total percentage of over 11%.

Resort .......................Weeks in...Weeks at...Percentage
_______________________________Trust___ __Resort______________
Kalanipu'u......................3518... ....3744.......93.964%
Oceana Palms....................5647... ....8788.......64.258%
Crystal Shores..................2122... ....3484.......60.907%
Timber Lodge....................4722... ...13728.......34.397%
Willow Ridge Lodge..............2179... ....6864.......31.745%
Ko'Olina........................6092... ...22256.......27.372%
Newport Coast...................8073... ...36400.......22.179%
Grand Chateau...................4034... ...23296.......17.316%
Canyon Villas...................1901... ...11076.......17.163%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........1064... ....7696.......13.825%
Streamside.......................683... ....4992.......13.682%
Harbour Lake....................1807... ...16224.......11.138%
Maui Ocean Club.................1562... ...16172........9.659%
Mountain Valley Lodge............359... ....4056........8.851%
Villas at Doral..................599... ....7332........8.170%
Harbour Point....................339... ....4472........7.581%
Fairway Villas...................706... ....9360........7.543%
Grande Vista....................3449... ...46800........7.370%
Legends Edge.....................318... ....4316........7.368%
Ocean Watch.....................1402... ...19448........7.209%
Shadow Ridge/Shadow Ridge II....1818... ...26000........6.992%
Sunset Pointe.....................86... ....1275........6.745%
Lakeshore Reserve................324... ....4940........6.559%
Sabal Palms......................262... ....4160........6.298%
Frenchman's Cove.................427... ....8060........5.298%
Imperial Palms...................114... ....2392........4.766%
Royal Palms......................297... ....6396........4.644%
Kauai Beach Club.................530... ...12064........4.393%
Ocean Pointe.....................758... ...17732........4.275%
Desert Springs II................825... ...20502........4.024%
Cypress Harbour.................1028... ...26520........3.876%
Surfwatch........................391... ...10140........3.856%
Mountain Side....................358... ....9464........3.783%
BeachPlace Towers................400... ...10712........3.734%
Monarch at Sea Pines.............222... ....6344........3.499%
Summit Watch.....................229... ....7020........3.262%
Heritage Club.....................45... ....1500........3.000%
Manor Club/Manor Club Sequel.....310... ...10400........2.981%
Desert Springs I.................355... ...12036........2.949%
Barony Beach Club................372... ...13005........2.860%
Harbour Club......................58... ....2040........2.843%
Waiohai..........................314... ...12012........2.614%
Grande Ocean.....................256... ...14790........1.731%
Total..........................60355... ..510008.......11.834%

 

[SueDonJ]

Thank you for the information. Here is another question: My guess is that the unsold weeks were gold, silver or bronze. Then the balance were re-acquired weeks weeks which we can assume included some platinum. Unless platinum owners change their weeks for points does that not severely limit the number of "trust" owners that can book Surfwatch during the platinum season? Or does Marriott just look at the points that are in the trust and designate them for whatever season they want? If that is so---some weeks owners could have trouble booking their weeks in the future!

Yes, Trust Members would have very limited availability if they could only book what's been conveyed to the Trust, but that's not how it all works. Trust Members can also access any intervals that Marriott makes available through the DC Exchange Company, including Trust conveyances, Weeks owned by Marriott and not conveyed, Weeks exchanged for both Marriott Rewards and Destination Club Points, Weeks which are in default (for non-payment of either mortgages or Maintenance Fees,) Weeks that Marriott gains when Owners fail to book them, etc. As well, Marriott is able to manipulate both enrolled and un-enrolled Weeks that have been deposited by Owners for II exchanges. IOW, Marriott is able to access for DC usage (by both Trust and Exchange Members) many more Weeks than just those that have been conveyed to the Trust.

But despite all the manipulations that Marriott can do, they can't re-declare (re-designate) the seasons of Weeks that have been conveyed to the Trust.

 

[GregT]

I took the number of weeks at each resort conveyed to the trust and compared that to the total number of weeks available for sale at each resort. I was able to capture the number of weeks available from the trust conveyances. Surprisingly not every resort is 52 weeks. Several are only 51 weeks and one resort only sold 50 weeks in each unit.

This is a list of each resort conveyed to the trust and the percentage of each. I was a little surprised by the total percentage of over 11%.

Resort .......................Weeks in...Weeks at...Percentage
_______________________________Trust___ __Resort______________
Kalanipu'u......................3518... ....3744.......93.964%
Oceana Palms....................5647... ....8788.......64.258%
Crystal Shores..................2122... ....3484.......60.907%
Timber Lodge....................4722... ...13728.......34.397%
Willow Ridge Lodge..............2179... ....6864.......31.745%
Ko'Olina........................6092... ...22256.......27.372%
Newport Coast...................8073... ...36400.......22.179%
Grand Chateau...................4034... ...23296.......17.316%
Canyon Villas...................1901... ...11076.......17.163%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........1064... ....7696.......13.825%
Streamside.......................683... ....4992.......13.682%
Harbour Lake....................1807... ...16224.......11.138%
Maui Ocean Club.................1562... ...16172........9.659%
Mountain Valley Lodge............359... ....4056........8.851%
Villas at Doral..................599... ....7332........8.170%
Harbour Point....................339... ....4472........7.581%
Fairway Villas...................706... ....9360........7.543%
Grande Vista....................3449... ...46800........7.370%
Legends Edge.....................318... ....4316........7.368%
Ocean Watch.....................1402... ...19448........7.209%
Shadow Ridge/Shadow Ridge II....1818... ...26000........6.992%
Sunset Pointe.....................86... ....1275........6.745%
Lakeshore Reserve................324... ....4940........6.559%
Sabal Palms......................262... ....4160........6.298%
Frenchman's Cove.................427... ....8060........5.298%
Imperial Palms...................114... ....2392........4.766%
Royal Palms......................297... ....6396........4.644%
Kauai Beach Club.................530... ...12064........4.393%
Ocean Pointe.....................758... ...17732........4.275%
Desert Springs II................825... ...20502........4.024%
Cypress Harbour.................1028... ...26520........3.876%
Surfwatch........................391... ...10140........3.856%
Mountain Side....................358... ....9464........3.783%
BeachPlace Towers................400... ...10712........3.734%
Monarch at Sea Pines.............222... ....6344........3.499%
Summit Watch.....................229... ....7020........3.262%
Heritage Club.....................45... ....1500........3.000%
Manor Club/Manor Club Sequel.....310... ...10400........2.981%
Desert Springs I.................355... ...12036........2.949%
Barony Beach Club................372... ...13005........2.860%
Harbour Club......................58... ....2040........2.843%
Waiohai..........................314... ...12012........2.614%
Grande Ocean.....................256... ...14790........1.731%
Total..........................60355... ..510008.......11.834%

Dioxide,

This is terrific information, thank you for posting this. I missed the March 24th posting, and am glad to be current now -- thanks again!

Best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

Another thing to realize is how little voting power weeks owners will really have at many resorts where trust ownership is nearing or over the 10% or even 5% mark. With very few weeks owners actually completing their proxies, and even those that do providing a fractured vote to a united trust vote, weeks owners end up with very little voting power.

 

[GregT]

Really useful info Greg
I guess you didn't see any similar information for Europe and Asia segments?

Sorry, I did find the same info for Europe and Asia (but copy quality is poor -- not sure why)?

Thanks!

 

[bazzap]

Thanks again Greg and very well spotted.

 

[StevenTing]

Just found the thread. Took a long time to read but worth it. This is very useful since I'm in the process of completing a resale.

 

[SueDonJ]

Just found the thread. Took a long time to read but worth it. This is very useful since I'm in the process of completing a resale.

Agree, this thread is valuable for a number of reasons. It's one of several that dioxide established, that I keep linked on the toolbar for easy reference. Thanks again for maintaining it, dioxide and Greg.

 

[dioxide45]

Just found the thread. Took a long time to read but worth it. This is very useful since I'm in the process of completing a resale.

Resale trust points? If so, keep us informed of how everything works out.