Recorded Trust Documents

[dioxide45]

Here is the breakdown of the newly recorded conveyances. Ko'Olina is the big one here, likely from the openeing of the new units in the third tower. That resort alone made up well over half of all the new points added to the trust.

There were 35,427,250 points added to the trust this round.

Resort..........................Total
Ko'Olina...................20,136,500
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail....3,135,000
Grand Chateau...............1,463,000
Grande Vista................1,345,250
Newport Coast.................831,250
Harbour Lake..................712,750
Ocean Pointe..................667,000
Kauai Beach Club..............638,250
Shadow Ridge..................614,500
Cypress Harbour...............583,250
Maui Ocean Club...............480,250
Villas at Doral...............476,750
BeachPlace Towers.............405,500
Maui Ocean Club Sequel........400,000
Timber Lodge..................324,500
Desert Springs II.............317,250
Waiohai.......................266,750
Kalanipu'u....................222,500
Fairway Villas................213,500
Desert Springs I..............178,750
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe....166,500
Canyon Villas.................160,750
Barony Beach Club.............155,000
Ocean Watch...................148,500
Mountain Side.................147,750
Lakeshore Reserve.............146,250
Legends Edge..................115,750
Surfwatch.....................109,250
Sabal Palms...................102,250
Royal Palms....................93,250
Grande Ocean...................84,750
Willow Ridge Lodge.............84,250
Monarch at Sea Pines...........81,750
Summit Watch...................77,750
Imperial Palms.................65,250
Shadow Ridge II................65,250
Oceana Palms...................61,000
Manor Club.....................34,500
Mountain Valley Lodge..........31,750
Crystal Shores.................25,250
Harbour Pointe.................19,750
Manor Club Sequel..............13,000
Harbour Club...................12,250
Heritage Club...................6,500
Shadow Ridgew...................3,250
Sunset Pointe...................3,250
Grand Total................35,427,250

 

[dioxide45]

Here is the updated breakdown of the entire trust.


Resort.............................Total
Ko'Olina......................29,386,250
Newport Coast.................24,254,000
Kalanipu'u....................17,309,000
Timber Lodge..................15,549,000
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail......10,631,000
Crystal Shores.................9,302,750
Grand Chateau..................8,822,000
Maui Ocean Club Sequel.........6,725,500
Oceana Palms...................6,668,250
Maui Ocean Club................5,690,250
Grande Vista...................5,120,750
Canyon Villas..................4,264,750
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe.....3,134,000
Willow Ridge Lodge.............3,110,750
Harbour Lake...................2,696,000
Shadow Ridge II................2,558,250
Ocean Watch....................2,412,250
Ocean Pointe...................1,978,000
Shadow Ridge...................1,574,000
Kauai Beach Club...............1,240,000
Cypress Harbour................1,160,500
Desert Springs II..............1,039,000
Lakeshore Reserve................866,500
Waiohai..........................853,500
Fairway Villas...................819,250
Villas at Doral..................709,250
BeachPlace Towers................709,250
Surfwatch........................466,500
Desert Springs I.................455,750
Mountain Side....................445,500
Barony Beach Club................379,500
Sabal Palms......................360,250
Legends Edge.....................321,250
Royal Palms......................309,000
Summit Watch.....................239,000
Mountain Valley Lodge............215,250
Manor Club.......................204,000
Grande Ocean.....................188,750
Imperial Palms...................160,000
Manor Club Sequel................160,000
Monarch at Sea Pines.............146,750
Harbour Pointe...................135,250
Sunset Pointe.....................52,750
Harbour Club......................44,000
Heritage Club.....................21,000
Grand Total..................172,888,500

 

[jont]

It's interesting how few points the trust has in HHI, Grande Ocean in particular.
Thanks Dioxide!

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Thanks for the update. Interesting that only one RC property (Vail) is in the Trust at the moment. I would have thought that more RC inventory would be conveyed to the trust in recent months.

Also, the uptick in some of the properties may be due to MVW buy-backs from property HOA's among other activity such as ROFR.

I know of one property HOA who has just recently requested that MVW consider another round of buy-backs of foreclosed units to add to the trust. I don't know if Marriott will agree to this but it will be interesting to hear their response to the HOA.

I suppose Marriott would want to limit these buy-backs and disclosures since this process may enable owners to be pre-disposed to dumping their units to HOA's. Just speculation on my part but its intersting to see some of these things happening in the background.

 

[GregT]

Dioxide,

Thank you for doing this -- this is very interesting and is quite helpful to determine where reservations should be relatively attainable.

Thanks for the update. Interesting that only one RC property (Vail) is in the Trust at the moment. I would have thought that more RC inventory would be conveyed to the trust in recent months.

I am curious to see what Marriott does in the future with the RC properties. They've created a bit of a predicament for themselves by depositing Vail at the high point values based upon the old chart. Now they've decreased the points requirements at other properties -- but kept Vail the same. Presumably, they are stuck with the old point chart for Vail because they used it when valuing the weeks that were deposited into the Trust?

I don't know how much unsold inventory exists at the other properties, but they may not want to permanently commit to today's point requirements.

So how many Trust Points do you place on a St. Thomas week when you put it in the Trust? New chart? Old chart? Tomorrow's chart?

And are they willing to permanently commit that property to the Marriott systemby depositing it in the Trust, or retain it separately as some Collection?

I may be totally off, but I am curious.

Best,

Greg

 

[jimf41]

Thanks for posting and keeping track of this. One question, what resort is Kalanipu'u?

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Thanks for posting and keeping track of this. One question, what resort is Kalanipu'u?

That would be: Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u

 

[jimf41]

That would be: Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u

Thanks FT.

 

[gblotter]

Here is the updated breakdown of the entire trust.

Resort.............................Total
Lakeshore Reserve................866,500

I am surprised to see so little in the trust for Lakeshore Reserve. I would have expected a lot of unsold inventory at that location because it is so new.

 

[dioxide45]

I am surprised to see so little in the trust for Lakeshore Reserve. I would have expected a lot of unsold inventory at that location because it is so new.

From what I read on here, Lakeshore Reserve actually had very good sales and was ahead of expectation. They only opened four buildings so far. There were several more planned that got put on hold when the market dropped. If they ever build the additional buildings, those will all go to the trust and that number of points will grow significantly.

 

[ral]

I don't see Frenchman's Cove on the updated list. Does that indicate that there is presently no trust inventory at this property? Is it more a function of local restrictions on inventory being placed into a trust rather than being completely sold out?

 

[jimf41]

I don't see Frenchman's Cove on the updated list. Does that indicate that there is presently no trust inventory at this property? Is it more a function of local restrictions on inventory being placed into a trust rather than being completely sold out?

So far MFC hasn't been able to include it's units in the trust due to ongoing negotiations with the USVI government. ROFR is also not allowed there by the USVI. At the same time they do sell trust points and they are not selling weeks anymore. At least they weren't as of last February.

With only approximately 150 units completed of the 224 planned it's possible that they completely sold out and are waiting on the last 75 units to be completed before they deed properties to the trust. The latest info on the website says they will start construction of the last units in January 2016. The original completion date was 2012.

 

[kyfonky]

After reading all posts I have several thoughts about buying a resale week, instead of points (I have been doing my "homework" before deciding); It looks like for some of my most desireble locations, such as Timberlodge and Newport Coast, DC has a significant amount of units in the Trust; still I ignore what percentage of the total resorts those points represent (i.e. 50% of the resort is at the Trust?)

As the points owners will definetely have priority to the Trust's units, it means that buying a week resale will give me low chances to get into those resorts (Timberlodge, Newport, Ko-Olina, Grand Chateau, etc), unless I buy at those resorts.

Does everybody agree with this statement?

What does Marriot do with the unsold inventory?

Maybe buying at a resort where DC does not have enough inventory, but has a high demand, such as Barony, will give me better opportunities to get an exchange I want?

I may then go and buy DC points; but still I believe it is very expensive when compare to week resales.

 

[slum808]

Although Ko Olina and Timberlodge are well represented in the trust, a deeded week is a deeded week. You will always be able to book in the season you own. You may not be able to book the exact week you want, but owning in the trust doesn't guarantee you that either.

While I'm a big fan of the flexibility of a pure point system, I'm not a fan of the cost. If you plan on booking whole weeks, it doesn't make sense to buy points.

Timberlodge ski season 5000pts/week = $2050 mf.
Platinum ski week I believe is about $1100 mf depending on you property tax.

Ko Olina summer week 5725 OV/week = $2347
Ko Olina Platinum week is about $1750 mf.

No if you're one that just likes to do 3 or 5 or 10 day trips, that's when points will have an advantage.

Of the three properties you mentioned I think Ko Olina would be the easiest trade and has the highest mf, so I wouldn't buy there.

Ski weeks are tough to get in trade, and with $1100 mf. I think this is where I would buy. You could use this week to exchange a week in Ko Olina no problem.

Newport could cause you some problems. Even single week owners complain about not being able to get a summer week. The other problem with newport is that they are all dedicated 2-bedrooms, so you can't lock off and exchange. If you really want to get into Newport and can't get it with a trade, you could always rent DC points.

I don't know that much about Grande Chateau

 

[dioxide45]

Frenchman's Cove Conveyed to the Trust!

On August 20, 2012 two notices were recorded with the Orange Country comptroller conveying a total of 1,006,750 points to the trust for Frenchman's Cove.

20120446704 - 140,500 Points (Reaquired)
20120446705 - 866,250 Points (Developer)

 

[dioxide45]

Updated Breakdown

Resort.............................Total
Ko'Olina......................29,386,250
Newport Coast.................24,254,000
Kalanipu'u....................17,309,000
Timber Lodge..................15,549,000
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail......10,631,000
Crystal Shores.................9,302,750
Grand Chateau..................8,822,000
Maui Ocean Club Sequel.........6,725,500
Oceana Palms...................6,668,250
Maui Ocean Club................5,690,250
Grande Vista...................5,120,750
Canyon Villas..................4,264,750
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe.....3,134,000
Willow Ridge Lodge.............3,110,750
Harbour Lake...................2,696,000
Shadow Ridge II................2,558,250
Ocean Watch....................2,412,250
Ocean Pointe...................1,978,000
Shadow Ridge...................1,574,000
Kauai Beach Club...............1,240,000
Cypress Harbour................1,160,500
Desert Springs II..............1,039,000
Frenchman's Cove...............1,006,750
Lakeshore Reserve................866,500
Waiohai..........................853,500
Fairway Villas...................819,250
Villas at Doral..................709,250
BeachPlace Towers................709,250
Surfwatch........................466,500
Desert Springs I.................455,750
Mountain Side....................445,500
Barony Beach Club................379,500
Sabal Palms......................360,250
Legends Edge.....................321,250
Royal Palms......................309,000
Summit Watch.....................239,000
Mountain Valley Lodge............215,250
Manor Club.......................204,000
Grande Ocean.....................188,750
Imperial Palms...................160,000
Manor Club Sequel................160,000
Monarch at Sea Pines.............146,750
Harbour Pointe...................135,250
Sunset Pointe.....................52,750
Harbour Club......................44,000
Heritage Club.....................21,000
Grand Total..................173,895,250

 

[GregT]

Dioxide,

Thank you for posting this - good to see MFC added to the Trust. It looks like the Developer weeks were four complete units and a ton of silver. The reacquired weeks were mostly silver and gold with only one Platnum. Interesting and thanks again!

Best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

Some Additional Analysis

Here is some side by side analysis of actual week counts along with point totals for each resort in the trust.

Resort..........................Weeks...%..........Points.....%
Ko'Olina........................6,085 11.70%......29,386,250 16.90%
Newport Coast...................7,803 15.00%......24,254,000 13.95%
Kalanipu'u......................3,518 6.76%.......17,309,000 9.95%
Timber Lodge....................4,623 8.89%.......15,549,000 8.94%
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail........1,872 3.60%.......10,631,000 6.11%
Crystal Shores..................2,103 4.04%........9,302,750 5.35%
Grand Chateau...................3,529 6.78%........8,822,000 5.07%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........1,007 1.94%........6,725,500 3.87%
Oceana Palms....................1,617 3.11%........6,668,250 3.83%
Maui Ocean Club.................1,347 2.59%........5,690,250 3.27%
Grande Vista....................2,185 4.20%........5,120,750 2.94%
Canyon Villas...................1,833 3.52%........4,264,750 2.45%
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe......1,295 2.49%........3,134,000 1.80%
Willow Ridge Lodge..............2,063 3.97%........3,110,750 1.79%
Harbour Lake................... 1,412 2.71%........2,696,000 1.55%
Shadow Ridge II...................966 1.86%........2,558,250 1.47%
Ocean Watch.....................1,207 2.32%........2,412,250 1.39%
Ocean Pointe......................569 1.09%........1,978,000 1.14%
Shadow Ridge......................656 1.26%........1,574,000 0.91%
Kauai Beach Club..................435 0.84%........1,240,000 0.71%
Cypress Harbour...................513 0.99%........1,160,500 0.67%
Desert Springs II.................470 0.90%........1,039,000 0.60%
Frenchaman's Cove.................362 0.70%........1,006,750 0.58%
Lakeshore Reserve.................281 0.54%..........866,500 0.50%
Waiohai...........................219 0.42%..........853,500 0.49%
Fairway Villas....................570 1.10%..........819,250 0.47%
BeachPlace Towers.................281 0.54%..........709,250 0.41%
Villas at Doral...................455 0.87%..........709,250 0.41%
Surfwatch.........................289 0.56%..........466,500 0.27%
Desert Springs I..................187 0.36%..........455,750 0.26%
Mountain Side.....................213 0.41%..........445,500 0.26%
Barony Beach Club.................202 0.39%..........379,500 0.22%
Sabal Palms.......................193 0.37%..........360,250 0.21%
Legends Edge......................204 0.39%..........321,250 0.18%
Royal Palms.......................177 0.34%..........309,000 0.18%
Summit Watch......................139 0.27%..........239,000 0.14%
Mountain Valley Lodge.............241 0.46%..........215,250 0.12%
Manor Club........................125 0.24%..........204,000 0.12%
Grande Ocean......................121 0.23%..........188,750 0.11%
Imperial Palms.....................78 0.15%..........160,000 0.09%
Manor Club Sequel..................81 0.16%..........160,000 0.09%
Monarch at Sea Pines..............130 0.25%..........146,750 0.08%
Harbour Pointe....................235 0.45%..........135,250 0.08%
Sunset Pointe......................71 0.14%...........52,750 0.03%
Harbour Club.......................43 0.08%...........44,000 0.03%
Heritage Club......................25 0.05%...........21,000 0.01%

Grand Total....................52,030 100.00%....173,895,250 100.00%

 

[dioxide45]

I have been watching for a some new recordings since they recently added the new tower at Oceana Palms. I haven't seen anything new yet except for four corrective amendments they recorded for some notices related to Manor Club. I would suspect when they add the Oceana Palms units to the trust that we will see another big chunk of units added from other resorts where they have been buying back inventory.

We should be able to prove if these buybacks are truly to add inventory to the trust or not by comparing the trust inventory to any recent buybacks. Will be interesting to prove one way or the other.

 

[ral]

Looking forward to upcoming results. Thanks for your efforts in putting this all together.

 

[GregT]

Here is some side by side analysis of actual week counts along with point totals for each resort in the trust.

Resort..........................Weeks...%..........Points.....%
Ko'Olina........................6,085 11.70%......29,386,250 16.90%
Newport Coast...................7,803 15.00%......24,254,000 13.95%
Kalanipu'u......................3,518 6.76%.......17,309,000 9.95%
Timber Lodge....................4,623 8.89%.......15,549,000 8.94%
Ritz Carlton Club - Vail........1,872 3.60%.......10,631,000 6.11%
Crystal Shores..................2,103 4.04%........9,302,750 5.35%
Grand Chateau...................3,529 6.78%........8,822,000 5.07%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel..........1,007 1.94%........6,725,500 3.87%
Oceana Palms....................1,617 3.11%........6,668,250 3.83%
Maui Ocean Club.................1,347 2.59%........5,690,250 3.27%
Grande Vista....................2,185 4.20%........5,120,750 2.94%
Canyon Villas...................1,833 3.52%........4,264,750 2.45%
Grand Residence Lake Tahoe......1,295 2.49%........3,134,000 1.80%
Willow Ridge Lodge..............2,063 3.97%........3,110,750 1.79%
Harbour Lake................... 1,412 2.71%........2,696,000 1.55%
Shadow Ridge II...................966 1.86%........2,558,250 1.47%
Ocean Watch.....................1,207 2.32%........2,412,250 1.39%
Ocean Pointe......................569 1.09%........1,978,000 1.14%
Shadow Ridge......................656 1.26%........1,574,000 0.91%
Kauai Beach Club..................435 0.84%........1,240,000 0.71%
Cypress Harbour...................513 0.99%........1,160,500 0.67%
Desert Springs II.................470 0.90%........1,039,000 0.60%
Frenchaman's Cove.................362 0.70%........1,006,750 0.58%
Lakeshore Reserve.................281 0.54%..........866,500 0.50%
Waiohai...........................219 0.42%..........853,500 0.49%
Fairway Villas....................570 1.10%..........819,250 0.47%
BeachPlace Towers.................281 0.54%..........709,250 0.41%
Villas at Doral...................455 0.87%..........709,250 0.41%
Surfwatch.........................289 0.56%..........466,500 0.27%
Desert Springs I..................187 0.36%..........455,750 0.26%
Mountain Side.....................213 0.41%..........445,500 0.26%
Barony Beach Club.................202 0.39%..........379,500 0.22%
Sabal Palms.......................193 0.37%..........360,250 0.21%
Legends Edge......................204 0.39%..........321,250 0.18%
Royal Palms.......................177 0.34%..........309,000 0.18%
Summit Watch......................139 0.27%..........239,000 0.14%
Mountain Valley Lodge.............241 0.46%..........215,250 0.12%
Manor Club........................125 0.24%..........204,000 0.12%
Grande Ocean......................121 0.23%..........188,750 0.11%
Imperial Palms.....................78 0.15%..........160,000 0.09%
Manor Club Sequel..................81 0.16%..........160,000 0.09%
Monarch at Sea Pines..............130 0.25%..........146,750 0.08%
Harbour Pointe....................235 0.45%..........135,250 0.08%
Sunset Pointe......................71 0.14%...........52,750 0.03%
Harbour Club.......................43 0.08%...........44,000 0.03%
Heritage Club......................25 0.05%...........21,000 0.01%

Grand Total....................52,030 100.00%....173,895,250 100.00%

Dioxide,

I missed this post the first time through -- it is really interesting the number of weeks in the trust, in addition to the total points. These data confirm how loaded the Trust is for Newport Coast and Ko Olina, but more weeks are present at NC then KO by approx 25% -- even though 20% more points representing Ko Olina.

Almost 27% of the weeks in the Trust are just those two properties. This should provide confidence to us that we will always be able to access those properties with our legacy points. Same with TimberLodge and Kauai Lagoons.

Contrast this with Maui Ocean Club Sequel -- although the points suggest it is well represented with 6.7M points, that's only 1,007 weeks or approx 19 units per week, on average.

Those 19 units can be broken by a Premier Plus who bought 1,500 points, thus making it harder for the dedicated points purchaser to visit MOC. Perhaps the Premier Plus already has a MOC week, and bought points to get the status to add an 8th or 9th day to the trip.

Accordingly, I suspect it is going to be quite difficult to get availability in the new towers, which is interesting since I bet many of the points purchased are being sold by people who want to visit MOC (my speculation). I'm thinking of my friend who purchased 15K Trust Points so he can go to Maui every year.

Interesting situation.

Thanks again for posting this -- and thanks for tracking this.

Best,

Greg

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Does anyone have a list of the total number of units per resort? And possibly even broken down further by unit type? Not just the trust, but all units.

 

[GregT]

Does anyone have a list of the total number of units per resort? And possibly even broken down further by unit type? Not just the trust, but all units.

I do not, but would love to have one if it exists. I have collected some unit information for properties I track, but it's not a listing, it's what Marriott provides for each property (and they are on the points spreadsheet and other documents link below).

If someone does have more granular information, that would be terrific.

Best,

Greg

 

[jimf41]

units per resort.

I think tugger cp73 did this a few years ago. It's in the stickies under weeks owners FAQS. It's dated but maybe he's updated it but not posted it yet. I inquired about the number of units at Ocean Pointe a while back and I was told a little over 600. I don't remember the exact number but 600 was close. That sounded high so I went to a sat photo and actually counted the rooms and there were only about 300 as close as I could determine. It seems they count the lockout portion as a separate unit even though they don't sell them singly.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I think tugger cp73 did this a few years ago. It's in the stickies under weeks owners FAQS. It's dated but maybe he's updated it but not posted it yet. I inquired about the number of units at Ocean Pointe a while back and I was told a little over 600. I don't remember the exact number but 600 was close. That sounded high so I went to a sat photo and actually counted the rooms and there were only about 300 as close as I could determine. It seems they count the lockout portion as a separate unit even though they don't sell them singly.

dougp26364 has a post from 2009 that listed the specific number of Ocean Pointe units at 60 per main building and 65 for Kingfish for a total of 305 units and 15,860 deeded weeks.

Ocean Pointe deeded weeks per season:
Platinum - 5,795
Gold - 3,965
Silver - 6,100