Recorded Trust Documents

[dioxide45]

Lots more added on 4/20/2011, with notice record dates of 5/3/2011. Duplicate resorts are due to reaquired and developer inventory being added to the trust with seperate notices.

Surprised to see the addition of Grande Residence in Lake Tahoe.

20110230869- Barony Beach Club
20110230870- BeachPlace Towers
20110230871- Canyon Villas
20110230872- Crystal Shores
20110230873- Cypress Harbour
20110230874- Desert Springs I
20110230875- Desert Springs II
20110230876- Fairways Villas
20110230877- Grande Residence Lake Tahoe
20110230878- Grand Chataeu
20110230883- Grande Ocean
20110230884- Grande Vista
20110230885- Harbour Club
20110230886- Harbour Pointe
20110230887- Heritage Club
20110230888- Willow Ridge Lodge
20110230889- Harbour Lake
20110230890- Imperial Palms
20110230891- Kauai Beach Club
20110230892- Lakeshore reserve
20110230950- Legends Edge
20110230951- Manor Club
20110230952- Manor Club Sequel
20110230953- Maui Ocean Club Sequel
20110230954- Maui Ocean Club
20110230955- Monarch at Sea Pines
20110230956- Newport Coast
20110230957- Mountain Side
20110230958- Ocean Pointe
20110230959- Ocean Watch
20110231092- Waiohai
20110231093- Grande Residence Lake Tahoe
20110231094- Barony Beach Club
20110231095- Canyon Villas I
20110231096- Crystal Shores
20110231097- Fairway Villas
20110231098- Grand Chateau
20110231099- Grande Vista
20110231100- Harbour Lake
20110231101- Kalanipu'u
20110231216- Oceana Palms
20110231217- Royal Palms
20110231218- Sabal Palms
20110231219- Shadow Ridge
20110231220- Shadow Ridge II
20110231221- Summit Watch
20110231222- Sunset Pointe
20110231223- Surfwatch
20110231224- Timber Lodge
20110231225- Villas at Doral
20110231254- Lakeshore Reserve
20110231255- Maui Ocean Club
20110231256- Maui Ocean Club Sequel
20110231257- Newport Coast
20110231258- Ocean Watch
20110231259- Oceana Palms
20110231260- Shadow Ridge
20110231261- Shadow Ridge II
20110231262- Surfwatch
20110231263- Timber Lodge
20110231268- Willow Ridge Lodge
20110231269- Waiohai

I will let GregT work the numbers magic if he so desires.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the update, Dioxide. This info is very interesting.

I have a question (for anyone). Looking at the weeks Marriott has acquired for the trust at Sunset Pointe, all of them are low season weeks. In addition, all but one of the weeks acquired at Grande Ocean are low season weeks. (The exception being one gold week.)

With the poor ratio of points to maintenance fee dollar on these low season weeks, why is Marriott acquiring them and dumping them into the trust?

Steve

 

[melroseman]

You-all have been far more involved in tracking the DC evolution than I have. But I own at KBC, and am amazed that there was that much inventory to put into the DC. Where is all of that inventory coming from??

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks for the update, Dioxide. This info is very interesting.

I have a question (for anyone). Looking at the weeks Marriott has acquired for the trust at Sunset Pointe, all of them are low season weeks. In addition, all but one of the weeks acquired at Grande Ocean are low season weeks. (The exception being one gold week.)

With the poor ratio of points to maintenance fee dollar on these low season weeks, why is Marriott acquiring them and dumping them into the trust?

Steve

I think they are foreclosures, likely from defaulted loans rather than defaulted MF. I would think they would put the weeks foreclosed on by the HOA due to MF default on the HOA to sell. However, when they foreclose on a mortgage on one of these they really don't have another outlet for it other than the trust.

 

[dioxide45]

You-all have been far more involved in tracking the DC evolution than I have. But I own at KBC, and am amazed that there was that much inventory to put into the DC. Where is all of that inventory coming from??

The latest dump of KBC appears to be reacquires. Either through foreclosures (most likely) or ROFR (least likely).

 

[sparty]

Thanks for the update, Dioxide. This info is very interesting.

I have a question (for anyone). Looking at the weeks Marriott has acquired for the trust at Sunset Pointe, all of them are low season weeks. In addition, all but one of the weeks acquired at Grande Ocean are low season weeks. (The exception being one gold week.)

With the poor ratio of points to maintenance fee dollar on these low season weeks, why is Marriott acquiring them and dumping them into the trust?

Steve

Interesting observation. I just scanned Barony and Cypress Habrour and had the same observation. They dumped junk, only 2 Plat weeks at Barony were added.

 

[vacationtime1]

The Waiohai weeks are prime weeks. Nine of the thirty weeks are week 52 weeks, several of which are ocean view. Many of the others are week 1-51 floaters (i.e. Hales 1-3) which I suspect will be automatically reserved for week 51 every year. I doubt any of these would have been foreclosure weeks, so unless there is some unsold inventory, they would have had to have come from ROFR or trade-ins. Also, with only a couple of exceptions, they could not have come from the build out of the former sales office because the units numbers do not match that location.

The Kauai Lagoon weeks ("Kalanipu'u") units are sequentially numbered and appear to be put into the trust as buildings or units are completed.

 

[SueDonJ]

Nice work, Dioxide, again. Thanks. Love that Grand Residence introduction.

With the way that Marriott and II are managing to finagle the inventory so that DC Points users can get their requests fulfilled, I'm not surprised at all that Marriott is dumping whatever weeks it can get into the Trust (especially weeks from the resorts which were sold out when the DC was rolled out.) Barony, Cypress Harbour, etc. silver and bronze weeks may not be valuable to Weeks owners for off-season stays, but they could be worth much more internally if Marriott and II have worked a deal whereby Marriott can deposit those to II in exchange for a higher-demand week. DC Points user requests Barony Gold, Marriott deposits in II a Barony Silver from the Trust, II gives Marriott the Gold, Marriott gives it to DC Points user - voila! Weeks owners have been taking advantage of uptrades in II for years, now Marriott can do the same thing to fuel its DC Exchange Company.

 

[SueDonJ]

... I will let GregT work the numbers magic if he so desires.

Greg, if you're working at it, I'm interested to know if there are any resorts left which haven't had any weeks conveyed to the Trust? Thanks ...

 

[curbysplace]

Greg, if you're working at it, I'm interested to know if there are any resorts left which haven't had any weeks conveyed to the Trust? Thanks ...

I don't see any Vail Marriott Streamside weeks in the trust.

 

[windje2000]

I think they are foreclosures, likely from defaulted loans rather than defaulted MF. I would think they would put the weeks foreclosed on by the HOA due to MF default on the HOA to sell. However, when they foreclose on a mortgage on one of these they really don't have another outlet for it other than the trust.

Based on a quick look at Monarch data, most would appear to be foreclosures or forfeitures from unpaid MFs as the prior titleholder in many instances is either Marvin Dukes III Master in Equity (the Beaufort bankruptcy special master) or the HOA.

Marriott securitizes the timeshare notes. The likely result of a foreclosure is the return of the week to Marriott in exchange for $ owed by the noteholder to the CDO.

Most of the weeks in this resort that went into the trust also are single digit or 40-50 weeks.

If these are the exchange currency (points equal in and out) that will be used with II to snag plat weeks for DC points members, . . .

Dioxide - Many thanks for tracking and posting these data.

Nice work, Dioxide, again. Thanks. Love that Grand Residence introduction.

With the way that Marriott and II are managing to finagle the inventory so that DC Points users can get their requests fulfilled, I'm not surprised at all that Marriott is dumping whatever weeks it can get into the Trust (especially weeks from the resorts which were sold out when the DC was rolled out.)

Barony, Cypress Harbour, etc. silver and bronze weeks may not be valuable to Weeks owners for off-season stays, but they could be worth much more internally if Marriott and II have worked a deal whereby Marriott can deposit those to II in exchange for a higher-demand week. DC Points user requests Barony Gold, Marriott deposits in II a Barony Silver from the Trust, II gives Marriott the Gold, Marriott gives it to DC Points user - voila! Weeks owners have been taking advantage of uptrades in II for years, now Marriott can do the same thing to fuel its DC Exchange Company.

So you believe Marriott 'finagling' inventory for its own benefit that is a good thing for existing owners???

And reducing existing owners ability to exchange in the furtherance of selling the dregs of inventory as points is a good thing for existing owners???

My concern is that I lose opportunities to make even exchanges.

Snagging an uptrade as an owner in II is not and never has been a sure bet. Dealing from the bottom of the deck is.

 

[tschwa2]

The silver and bronze weeks dumped into the trust also means Marriott has more block votes at sold out resorts.

 

[SueDonJ]

... So you believe Marriott 'finagling' inventory for its own benefit that is a good thing for existing owners???

And reducing existing owners ability to exchange in the furtherance of selling the dregs of inventory as points is a good thing for existing owners???

I didn't say if it's a good thing or not for existing owners if Marriott is able to swing uptrades in II using the lower-demand inventory that's been conveyed to the Trust. Up there in the thread Steve asked for opinions why Marriott would want these low season weeks and it occurs to me - and many others previously in this thread - that Marriott can do the same thing with them that others have been doing for years. Just like with most everything else related to Marriott timeshares my opinion about what's a good thing or not doesn't mean diddly-squat - Marriott's going to do whatever the contracts and agreements allow them to do, same as every other owner.

My concern is that I lose opportunities to make even exchanges.

Snagging an uptrade as an owner in II is not and never has been a sure bet. Dealing from the bottom of the deck is.

It's a valid concern that's been discussed on TUG for months now and it sure appears that the DC has impacted II inventory in many ways. But snagging ANY trade has never been guaranteed, and the game rules have never been set in stone. Seeing as Marriott and II write the rules it's not surprising that they'd take advantage in whatever ways possible. Again, not saying it's a good thing; it's simply the way it is.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Greg, if you're working at it, I'm interested to know if there are any resorts left which haven't had any weeks conveyed to the Trust? Thanks ...

Sue; I may have missed it, but I don't see any weeks for Marriott's Custom House. Maybe that is because the Custom House is a RTU property ?????

Or maybe because the Custom House has only 84 villas, and weeks haven't yet been obtained ?



.

 

[windje2000]

I didn't say if it's a good thing or not for existing owners if Marriott is able to swing uptrades in II using the lower-demand inventory that's been conveyed to the Trust. Up there in the thread Steve asked for opinions why Marriott would want these low season weeks and it occurs to me - and many others previously in this thread - that Marriott can do the same thing with them that others have been doing for years. Just like with most everything else related to Marriott timeshares my opinion about what's a good thing or not doesn't mean diddly-squat - Marriott's going to do whatever the contracts and agreements allow them to do, same as every other owner.



It's a valid concern that's been discussed on TUG for months now and it sure appears that the DC has impacted II inventory in many ways. But snagging ANY trade has never been guaranteed, and the game rules have never been set in stone. Seeing as Marriott and II write the rules it's not surprising that they'd take advantage in whatever ways possible. Again, not saying it's a good thing; it's simply the way it is.

Just because something is permitted by a contract of adhesion and is therefore 'legal' does not mean it is the right thing to do.

Here's a famous 'for example' from old law course lecture on jury nullification

Would you have voted to convict Rosa Parks of violating the law on sitting in the front of the bus if you were on the jury that heard that case? (You would have been just be following the law.)

Legal and ethical, moral, etc. don't always converge.

If I had had prior knowledge that Marriott would be not only operating in but competing with me in the exchange business I wouldn't be an owner. And I'll hazard a guess that your CPA husband who understands the concept of independence likely would have had some reservations as well.

 

[SueDonJ]

Just because something is permitted by a contract of adhesion and is therefore 'legal' does not mean it is the right thing to do.

Here's a famous 'for example' from old law course lecture on jury nullification

Would you have voted to convict Rosa Parks of violating the law on sitting in the front of the bus if you were on the jury that heard that case? (You would have been just be following the law.)

Legal and ethical, moral, etc. don't always converge.

If I had had prior knowledge that Marriott would be not only operating in but competing with me in the exchange business I wouldn't be an owner. And I'll hazard a guess that your CPA husband who understands the concept of independence likely would have had some reservations as well.

You're equating all this to something similar to a Rosa Parks jury trial? Really?! Hmmmm ... a woman whose action (in defiance of a later-proven-unconstitutional law) served as a catalyst for the US Civil Rights Movement and a hospitality company pissing off owners of its timeshares by expanding its business and following the same practices that the owners do. Gosh, both of them should have the book thrown at them!

So far I haven't been put in a jury situation where morality and ethics conflict with a good person's basic rights and freedoms - hope I never am! But what we discuss routinely on TUG just doesn't compare. Don't know why but it surprises me how often the legal/moral/ethical discussion comes up in relation to Marriott's timeshare business. I really do think that as long as what they do is legally correct then it doesn't matter whether I like what they're doing or not. Even if I was to judge them morally/ethically and find them lacking, what options other than contract disputes would be available to me to fight them and have a decent shot at winning?

But that doesn't mean I just sit back and take the absolute least usage value I can get out of the timeshares after Marriott takes actions; it does enforce the importance of learning the rules by which they're playing so usage value can be maximized. Don's as pragmatic as me when it comes to Marriott but he spends a whole lot less time thinking about all this than any of us do. We figure out where and when we want to go somewhere, then I use all the knowledge TUGgers have shared to try to get us there. So far, we're both happy enough with Marriott because we haven't been unable to get to one of those somewheres yet.

 

[GregT]

Dioxide, fantastic stuff, thanks for finding this. I will update the Trust spreadsheet and load in the info asap.

Best,

Greg

 

[GregT]

Interesting -- notice how they load properties in 250 point increments? That's not possible based upon the point chart -- somehow, they apply a different 'points value' when loading the trust. I think I posted on this once before, but I found just a single week loaded, and it had an even number of points (1,500?) that did not correlate to the weeks value per the point chart -- interesting then, and interesting now......

Updated thru 4/30/11:


Timberlodge........................12,413,000
Newport Coast Villas.............10,255,250
Crystal Shores.......................9,253,250
Ko Olina................................9,208,750
Oceana Palms........................6,574,500
MOC-Sequel..........................5,675,750
Grande Chateau.....................5,292,750
MOC.....................................4,132,000
Kalanipu'u..............................4,057,500 (Kauai Lagoons)
Canyon Villas..........................3,617,500
Willow Ridge...........................2,919,750
Grande Residence Club Tahoe....2,564,000
Shadow Ridge II......................2,355,250
Grand Vista............................2,127,500
Ocean Watch.........................2,004,250
Harbour Lake.............................875,750
Lakeshore Reserve.....................480,000
Ocean Point..............................466,750
Fairway Villas............................420,750
DSV II.....................................417,500
Shadow Ridge...........................354,250
Kauai Beach Club.......................351,000
SurfWatch...............................215,000
Waiohai...................................151,750
Cypress Harbour........................150,750
Sabal Palms..............................150,000
Royal Palms..............................141,750
Mountain Side...........................124,250
Barony Beach Club.....................121,000
Manor Club Sequel.....................107,250
Harbour Pointe............................87,750
DSV I........................................82,000
Manor Club.................................68,000
Summit Watch............................68,000
Grande Ocean.............................56,750
Doral.........................................51,000
Sunset Point...............................47,000
Imperial Palm Villas.......................45,250
Monarch at Sea Pines...................38,250
Harbour Club...............................26,250
Legends Edge..............................26,000
BeachPlace Towers.......................21,250
Heritage Club...............................11,000

Total...........................87,607,250 (128,000 unaccounted for)

Best to all,

Greg

 

[SueDonJ]

Interesting -- notice how they load properties in 250 point increments? That's not possible based upon the point chart -- somehow, they apply a different 'points value' when loading the trust. I think I posted on this once before, but I found just a single week loaded, and it had an even number of points (1,500?) that did not correlate to the weeks value per the point chart -- interesting then, and interesting now......

Updated thru 4/30/11: ...

Nice work again, Greg, thanks!

Each DC "beneficial interest" is 250 Points, that's where the increment comes from.

 

[GregT]

Nice work again, Greg, thanks!

Each DC "beneficial interest" is 250 Points, that's where the increment comes from.

That makes sense -- this must have been a number-crunchers dream to construct this system and all of its disparate points values!!!

It's fun for a number-cruncher to de-construct too......

Best,

Greg

 

[dioxide45]

That makes sense -- this must have been a number-crunchers dream to construct this system and all of its disparate points values!!!

It's fun for a number-cruncher to de-construct too......

Best,

Greg

That week looks like it was a gold Willow Ridge Lodge. For trust purposes they value it at 1500 points. It appears however that they are offering owners of those weeks 1575 in the DC exchange company. I don't have Dan's spreadsheet handy to see what the average for the gold season is there. I really don't understand how they came up with these values.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm interested to know if there are any resorts left which haven't had any weeks conveyed to the Trust? Thanks ...

I looked at all the resorts today and those in the trust. There only appears to be three that don't have any points in the trust.

• Custom House
• StreamSide
• Mountain Valley Lodge

I was surprised by the low number of points that Lakeshore Reserve has in the trust. It wasn't even one of the initial resorts. Being a new resort it is commonly believed that it had a lot of unsold inventory and had a lot of weeks in the trust. In fact it isn't even in the top 15 resorts points wise that the trust holds.

 

[SueDonJ]

I don't see any Vail Marriott Streamside weeks in the trust.

Sue; I may have missed it, but I don't see any weeks for Marriott's Custom House. Maybe that is because the Custom House is a RTU property ?????

Or maybe because the Custom House has only 84 villas, and weeks haven't yet been obtained ?



.

I looked at all the resorts today and those in the trust. There only appears to be three that don't have any points in the trust.

• Custom House
• StreamSide
• Mountain Valley Lodge

I was surprised by the low number of points that Lakeshore Reserve has in the trust. It wasn't even one of the initial resorts. Being a new resort it is commonly believed that it had a lot of unsold inventory and had a lot of weeks in the trust. In fact it isn't even in the top 15 resorts points wise that the trust holds.

Thanks, all. I have no idea what it means if a resort doesn't have any weeks conveyed to the Trust but we may as well keep track of whatever data we can figure out. The question, "what resorts AREN'T there?" popped into my head when I read dioxide's latest with all those gobs of conveyances, and so I asked it.

I wish there was some way to figure out how many Weeks Marriott is holding that haven't been conveyed to the Trust yet, and why. But again, don't know what good it will do to know the answer. It's just another question.

 

[GregT]

TUGgers,

With thanks to Dioxide for both finding the missing points and teaching me how to format a table correctly, please see the revised Trust Inventory.

All points are accounted for.

Best to all,

Greg


Updated through April 2011:



PROPERTY...............TRUST POINTS....% OF TRUST

Timber Lodge............12,413,000......14.15%
Newport Coast...........10,255,250......11.69%
Crystal Shores...........9,253,250......10.55%
Ko'Olina.................9,208,750......10.50%
Oceana Palms.............6,574,500.......7.49%
Maui Ocean Club Sequel...5,675,750.......6.47%
Grand Chateau............5,292,750.......6.03%
Maui Ocean Club..........4,132,000.......4.71%
Kalanipu'u...............4,057,500.......4.62% (Kauai Lagoons)
Canyon Villas............3,792,750.......4.32%
Willow Ridge Lodge.......2,919,750.......3.33%
Grand Residence Tahoe....2,564,000.......2.92%
Shadow Ridge II..........2,267,500.......2.58%
Grande Vista.............2,127,500.......2.42%
Ocean Watch..............2,004,250.......2.28%
Harbour Lake...............875,750.......1.00%
Lakeshore Reserve..........480,000.......0.55%
Ocean Pointe...............466,750.......0.53%
Shadow Ridge...............442,000.......0.50%
Fairway Villas.............420,750.......0.48%
Desert Springs II..........417,500.......0.48%
Kauai Beach Club...........351,000.......0.40%
Surfwatch..................215,000.......0.25%
Waiohai....................151,750.......0.17%
Cypress Harbour............150,750.......0.17%
Sabal Palms................150,000.......0.17%
Royal Palms................141,750.......0.16%
Barony Beach Club..........121,000.......0.14%
Manor Club Sequel..........107,250.......0.12%
Harbour Pointe..............87,750.......0.10%
Desert Springs I............82,000.......0.09%
Mountain Side...............77,000.......0.09%
Manor Club..................68,000.......0.08%
Summit Watch................68,000.......0.08%
Grande Ocean................56,750.......0.06%
Villas at Doral.............51,000.......0.06%
Sunset Pointe...............47,000.......0.05%
Imperial Palms..............45,250.......0.05%
Monarch at Sea Pines........38,250.......0.04%
Harbour Club................26,250.......0.03%
Legends Edge................26,000.......0.03%
BeachPlace Towers...........21,250.......0.02%
Heritage Club...............11,000.......0.01%
Custom House.....................0.......0.00%
Mountain Valley Lodge............0.......0.00%
StreamSide.......................0.......0.00%

Grand Total.............87,735,250.....100.00%

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . . I really do think that as long as what they do is legally correct then it doesn't matter whether I like what they're doing or not. . . .

How many times has someone said here on TUG that Marriott is running a business? Their business is now selling points and exchanging via their own internal exchange company.

Weeks owners have been, and continue to be, guaranteed reservations at their home resorts for the seasons they purchased. However, the DC program looks to be leaning more-and-more toward giving an exchange advantage to DC points members. In reality, that should not be too surprising to anyone since the DC program is now the program that Marriott is pushing.

That said, I doubt II would be too willing to trade Marriott quality for junk (unless they saw some benefit for themselves). II is also running a business.

The surprising growth of the Trust I think is exciting news for DC members. The bigger the Trust gets, the more likely it will be that DC members get successful exchanges. Marriott has to do something with all of the surplus inventory. Much of it will almost certainly have to be moved to their exchange program. Some of it will likely be used for II trades on behalf of DC members. They certainly are not going to sell it off in points any time soon.