Recent Owner Updates With Tales of Vistana/MVC Merger

[GabrielSmith]

I purchased a resale WKORV 2BR EOYO at the end of 2019 for $3000. (I know, GREAT DEAL!) I purchased from SMTN and had a great experience with Ryan. In the beginning of Sept my wife and I went to The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa and stayed for a week in a 2BR ocean view for 56k SO. While we were there we went to an owners updated where they tried to sell us Westin Adventures (which we declined.) The very last package of 44k points EOY for $10k to make our resale "authorized" we also declined. The salesman told us that unless we made our unit "authorized" we would not be able to take advantage of the additional 80+ properties in MVC. We declined and got our free excursion to swim with dolphins, which was fantastic! I spoke to another Vistana rep when I got back state side and she tried to sell me on Westin Flex and told me that with the merger that Vistana and MVC are going to a "Pure Point" system and the new dashboard will be launched in April 2022. Who knows if that's actually correct or not. Needless to say, playing the waiting game to see what actually happens.

 

[RunCat]

They have two types of explorer packages. I don't understand the logic of pricing and points on them. One package is for a return to the resort you are touring. This one comes with 100K Bonvoy and is cheaper. The other package is to return to any resort and is only 50K Bonvoy and you can book at any resort.

Thanks. . . I should have been more clear. They initially offered the more flexible package. But living in CO and with the return being at the Westin made the more restrictive package better for my us.

 

[RunCat]

I purchased a resale WKORV 2BR EOYO at the end of 2019 for $3000. (I know, GREAT DEAL!) I purchased from SMTN and had a great experience with Ryan. In the beginning of Sept my wife and I went to The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa and stayed for a week in a 2BR ocean view for 56k SO. While we were there we went to an owners updated where they tried to sell us Westin Adventures (which we declined.) The very last package of 44k points EOY for $10k to make our resale "authorized" we also declined. The salesman told us that unless we made our unit "authorized" we would not be able to take advantage of the additional 80+ properties in MVC. We declined and got our free excursion to swim with dolphins, which was fantastic! I spoke to another Vistana rep when I got back state side and she tried to sell me on Westin Flex and told me that with the merger that Vistana and MVC are going to a "Pure Point" system and the new dashboard will be launched in April 2022. Who knows if that's actually correct or not. Needless to say, playing the waiting game to see what actually happens.

interesting that you mention pure points; the Explorer price lock showed only ‘per point’ pricing for the Sheraton and Westin flex programs. That may have been the case for awhile, but I have not been on an update since 2018.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I purchased a resale WKORV 2BR EOYO at the end of 2019 for $3000. (I know, GREAT DEAL!) I purchased from SMTN and had a great experience with Ryan. In the beginning of Sept my wife and I went to The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa and stayed for a week in a 2BR ocean view for 56k SO. While we were there we went to an owners updated where they tried to sell us Westin Adventures (which we declined.) The very last package of 44k points EOY for $10k to make our resale "authorized" we also declined. The salesman told us that unless we made our unit "authorized" we would not be able to take advantage of the additional 80+ properties in MVC. We declined and got our free excursion to swim with dolphins, which was fantastic! I spoke to another Vistana rep when I got back state side and she tried to sell me on Westin Flex and told me that with the merger that Vistana and MVC are going to a "Pure Point" system and the new dashboard will be launched in April 2022. Who knows if that's actually correct or not. Needless to say, playing the waiting game to see what actually happens.

Wow. What a bunch of sales garbage. As a resale owner of WKORV you already are "authorized" to use SO points because WKORV is a mandatory property; resale owners get these rights. If the rep is referring to the ability to convert your SOs to Bonvoy, well, that is of little value because Bonvoy is devaluing like a rock so your best value is to use the property or SOs anyway. Congrats on your nice deal.

 

[CPNY]

I was at SVV last week and they called me at 8am on Labor Day to “welcome me” and to say they “see that I haven’t scheduled an owners update yet”. It took every nerve in my body to hold my composure and not lose it on them for waking me up so early with that nonsense. Looking back at it, I should have went on the update. I would have brought a bucket of popcorn for the comedy show I would have listened to.

 

[dioxide45]

I was at SVV last week and they called me at 8am on Labor Day to “welcome me” and to say they “see that I haven’t scheduled an owners update yet”. It took every nerve in my body to hold my composure and not lose it on them for waking me up so early with that nonsense. Looking back at it, I should have went on the update. I would have brought a bucket of popcorn for the comedy show I would have listened to.

Perhaps they would have assigned you to Mike again!

 

[CPNY]

Perhaps they would have assigned you to Mike again!

The thought of dealing with that guy again is why I refused to partake in any of their sales nonsense

 

[Jax44]

Did our Explorer package presentation yesterday at WKORV. Didn’t buy!. The new Explorer packages are 5 nights , 1bedroom is now 1894.00 with 100,000 points. Didn’t buy this either.
Vague talk of the merger early next year.
So a question: we are planning on buying resale from a friend, 2 bed ocean view, every year at North. Would you go ahead at this time or wait and see what transpires?.
We currently have no timeshares.

 

[grrrah]

Did our Explorer package presentation yesterday at WKORV. Didn’t buy!. The new Explorer packages are 5 nights , 1bedroom is now 1894.00 with 100,000 points. Didn’t buy this either.
Vague talk of the merger early next year.
So a question: we are planning on buying resale from a friend, 2 bed ocean view, every year at North. Would you go ahead at this time or wait and see what transpires?.
We currently have no timeshares.

I'm assuming that WKORVN is where you want to go the most, and in that case I probably would. Especially if you are getting a "friend" price. If you are worried about how a joint exchange may turn out and buying of trading, maybe wait.

 

[vacationtime1]

Did our Explorer package presentation yesterday at WKORV. Didn’t buy!. The new Explorer packages are 5 nights , 1bedroom is now 1894.00 with 100,000 points. Didn’t buy this either.
Vague talk of the merger early next year.
So a question: we are planning on buying resale from a friend, 2 bed ocean view, every year at North. Would you go ahead at this time or wait and see what transpires?.
We currently have no timeshares.

I agree with the last post -- if you want to stay at WKORVN every year, the merger will have little or no impact on you. You will own a deeded week in your view category.

 

[Jax44]

I agree with the last post -- if you want to stay at WKORVN every year, the merger will have little or no impact on you. You will own a deeded week in your view category.

Yep, we love it there. And the friend price can’t be beat.
Thanks everyone!

 

[ChiefIlliniwek]

Perhaps they would have assigned you to Mike again!

I did an update in July. Can I do another in November? I bought a cheap getaway week in Orlando for November and am looking for activities.

 

[Henry M.]

I have 5 developer weeks and I'm thinking about buying a couple more aftermarket weeks if I find some good prices. I'd probably buy North at this time, since it is where my wife and I prefer to stay, but OV south is also nice. I love all the Maui properties, though.

I'm at Nanea right now, but I prefer the mandatory North and South properties. This is my first stay at Nanea. It is nice, but I'm a creature of habit and have been going to the other properties since they opened.

 

[dioxide45]

I did an update in July. Can I do another in November? I bought a cheap getaway week in Orlando for November and am looking for activities.

Last time we were there, they would allow you to do a tour every 60 days in Orlando.

 

[LanceM]

Currently in Orlando at a Sheraton. Owner update first offered to buy equal or better point into Marriott [We have Nanea EOY]. Points were in Vistana points (or equivalent, but there was no exchange rate mentioned other than our Nanea points were worth more in the Marriott System). We turned it down strictly on not wanting to give up our HI deed, so they offered a cheaper package with no trade in. Still turned it down because we only bought in 2019 and we are notinterested in upgrading yet. The last offer was ~$8,000 for 20,000 options to just move our Nanea into the system to access Marriott. Didn't feel like forking over $8k for a new system (20k options), so turned them down again. 60 days was mentioned several times as separation between updates; we already plan on a short stay in December at a different resort where we could take advantage of the "2021 special pricing" before "2022 new regular pricing" if we feel the need; I don't think we will change our minds.
Mostly, I don't think the sales agent presented anything better other than more exchange opportunities. Most of the presentation was on how Marriott want to capture more of the money we spend on vacation. They want more invested in point that can be used to buy not only resorts but airfare, car rentals, and other; including gift cards to buy groceries. Not sure I want to invest more into Marriott on trust that these exchange systems will be beneficial.

 

[47vampire]

No, it is the other way around. Certain levels of 5 Star Elite with Vistana get Platinum Bonvoy status, all other owners get gold (developer or requalified purchases only). Your Bonvoy status gets you nothing in Vistana.

I went to an update last week and they were trying to get you to pay to put everything into points ( I own weeks). No real explaination as to how this conversion would work, what value I would see from doing it. Stupid money , I had to put it into perspective for my husband who thought it was good until I really did the math for him. Overall, they did say that 3-5 star elites would get something "nice" in the transition but still not telling what it is. High pressure to convert, saying deed backs will disappear as October 1, 2021, basically when they plan to annouce whatever they are doing.

 

[47vampire]

The sales Rep clearly said Hilton. I was surprised by that too, but I figured maybe I missed that acquisition by Marriott.
TBH, there was so much being said that didn't sound right, it was getting exhausting.

Hilton /Hyatt were mentioned at my presentation last week. Clearly stated several times that they were not part of what was being offered to Sheraton/Westin/Vistana owners . Sales said it could not be part of combined systems. Also said at one time they thought so but as they worked through it, the answer was no. My cost presentation was about the same as yours. Giving me credit for my $16900 investment but the final cost was coming out at $42,000. I was also offered the package stay good for a year at $1197 for a 5 day in a 2 bedroom ( more than my MF now and fewer days stay) and the price would be good for 1 year on the cost of conversion. Walk away today and it will go up to $.78 on October 1. Still too much uncertainity in the validity of the fact presented. We are older and looking at travel in a different way now. The timeshares we own don't fit our needs and I rent them out every year and mostly use II for getaways.

 

[BradC]

Attended an owner's update today. I was offered a 56,300 Flex package, and with that, I was told I would be able to bring all of my resale purchases "into" the new program. The claim is that I would be able to convert any/all of my StarOptions to Marriott Vacation points and reserve any MVC property at 13 months out.

The weird part (to me) was that the conversion to MVC points was based on the number of Bonvoy points associated with my units (not the number of associated StarOptions).

It's tempting to be able to get into those other properties, but the conversion rate seems a little poor comparing to what I could get in Vistana.

 

[daviator]

Attended an owner's update today. I was offered a 56,300 Flex package, and with that, I was told I would be able to bring all of my resale purchases "into" the new program. The claim is that I would be able to convert any/all of my StarOptions to Marriott Vacation points and reserve any MVC property at 13 months out.

The weird part (to me) was that the conversion to MVC points was based on the number of Bonvoy points associated with my units (not the number of associated StarOptions).

It's tempting to be able to get into those other properties, but the conversion rate seems a little poor comparing to what I could get in Vistana.

Lies, I think, at least about the conversion to MVC points.

And why would MVC base a conversion value around Bonvoy points? Bonvoy is a program from a completely different company (Marriott Hotels and Resorts has merely a contractual relationship with MVC, they could change things about the Bonvoy program any time they want to.) Plus, for Vistana resorts, that conversion value isn’t very sensical.

I'd advocate against making any purchases until the new program is actually announced and you can deal with facts and not made-up half-truths. I’ve got to believe that all of the uncertainty about what MVC is going to do with Vistana have put a damper on sales, so the sales people are making up more and more lies in an attempt to push people into spending money.

 

[rcv82]

It would make no sense to convert to DC points based upon the Bonvoy point value. However, I could see that only units eligible for Bonvoy points could be converted. To be eligible for Bonvoy points it had to be either a developer purchase or requalified resale via a developer purchase. Resales, including mandatory, do not get Bonvoy points unless requalified.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CPNY]

It would make no sense to convert to DC points based upon the Bonvoy point value. However, I could see that only units eligible for Bonvoy points could be converted. To be eligible for Bonvoy points it had to be either a developer purchase or requalified resale via a developer purchase. Resales, including mandatory, do not get Bonvoy points unless requalified.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was my thought a few years back when they announced a combined program. It could be possible that not all mandatory resorts would be eligible to be converted to DC points. However, any unit in Vistana that can be converted to Bonvoy points would be eligible for the exact reasons you stated.

 

[alexadeparis]

Attended a presentation Friday at WSJ. Pretty low key. Take aways were as follows: properties that MVC considered premium would receive MVC DC points by dividing SOs by 28, less desirable would be divided by 32. Tried to get more details on that, as in, would Sheraton be divided by 32, while Westin would be divided by 28? I did ask the same thing several different ways. I don’t think they know exactly themselves yet which resorts will get what, but the salesperson thought WSJ and HRA would get the more favorable ratio, as far as within my current portfolio.
so the math was shown to me like this 148,100/32 =4,628 DP but more likely my HRA would be worth 148,100/28 = 5,289 DP
and therefore my SVR will most likely only be worth 81,000/32= 2,531 DP.

The major push was for us to buy an eoy unit to retro my 2 resale units so that they can be included into the merger with Marriott, and get me to 4 star elite, for just under $20,000. Once merged with Marriott, we would be at presidential level based on the speculated range of roughly 13,000 to 14,000 DP my units would be worth, and able to reserve within DP at the 13 month mark. The range was calculated without my SVV Bella unit since it was strongly implied my unqualified resale would not be included in DP. Tried to clarify if there would be an enrollment similar to 2010 MVC offer for resales but they didn’t know and wouldn’t speculate.

Finally, the other offer was to take my developer SVR back, with 1/2 of what I paid as trade in $, and purchase Sheraton Flex. Was told Flex will integrate seamlessly into MVC DP points, and that if I bought flex I would be able to deposit as many or as little flex points for use on DP units (like 40,000 flex could be placed in DP and 41000 could be left as staroptions) whereas my current SVR units when integrated would require the deposit of my entire week in order to trade for DP. (In other words, instead of trading my home resort reservation for SOs, I could elect DP instead if I desired, once merged, but it’s all or nothing and you lose the home week advantage). Nothing was told to us like we would be left out of Marriott if we didn’t buy a flex product, or anything like that. Salesperson said there’s absolutely no way Vistana developer units won’t be added to MVC DP access because Marriott users want in to the Vistana properties, especially WSJ, HRA, Mexico, etc. So I think we now may be getting pretty close to the truth here on what will really be rolling out. Developer = MVC DP access. Resale, probably will be able to access MVC DP for a fee, at initial rollout, for a set amount of time.

Anyway, I got moved through a couple of salespersons when it became clear I knew more than the average person coming in, such as exactly which unit is in phase 2 of the pool villas. I had to explain to one of the long term WSJ salespeople who has only ever sold WSJ, The Marriott Skim and why it made me nervous for the future. He claimed to have never heard of it and called in a Marriott guy that just came in to work there. He then agreed with me about the skim, and told the WSJ guy that Marriott calls it “breakage” and that it is intentional, and that is exactly why the points chart is adjusted according to the demand they think they will have for the coming year.

 

[daviator]

Finally, the other offer was to take my developer SVR back, with 1/2 of what I paid as trade in $, and purchase Sheraton Flex.

Every deal I've been offered recently, they've offered to give me 100% of what I paid as trade in (different Vistana properties, but they were all 100%.) Since 100% of what you paid is probably quite a bit less than they're charging today (if you've owned for a while), 50% seems really insulting.

A 1:28 ratio is a lot closer to reasonable on the Maui properties I own than 1:32, I still think it's a bit weak.

I have yet to hear a single cogent reason why anybody should buy something today on rumors rather than just waiting and making decisions based on facts once the pull the curtain off the program changes.

 

[alexadeparis]

Every deal I've been offered recently, they've offered to give me 100% of what I paid as trade in (different Vistana properties, but they were all 100%.) Since 100% of what you paid is probably quite a bit less than they're charging today (if you've owned for a while), 50% seems really insulting.

A 1:28 ratio is a lot closer to reasonable on the Maui properties I own than 1:32, I still think it's a bit weak.

I have yet to hear a single cogent reason why anybody should buy something today on rumors rather than just waiting and making decisions based on facts once the pull the curtain off the program changes.

Yeah I agree on the 50% trade in being stingy, but I think that may have been because I had already had traded in something else when I bought that in 2011 and hadn’t really paid that much. The 50% trade was pretty close to the actual dollars out of my pocket when I bought it. $14k net purchase price after my trade in (I got the unit I traded in for free) vs $11k offered for trade in.

 

[trvlfan200]

I purchased a resale WKORV 2BR EOYO at the end of 2019 for $3000. (I know, GREAT DEAL!) I purchased from SMTN and had a great experience with Ryan. In the beginning of Sept my wife and I went to The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa and stayed for a week in a 2BR ocean view for 56k SO. While we were there we went to an owners updated where they tried to sell us Westin Adventures (which we declined.) The very last package of 44k points EOY for $10k to make our resale "authorized" we also declined. The salesman told us that unless we made our unit "authorized" we would not be able to take advantage of the additional 80+ properties in MVC. We declined and got our free excursion to swim with dolphins, which was fantastic! I spoke to another Vistana rep when I got back state side and she tried to sell me on Westin Flex and told me that with the merger that Vistana and MVC are going to a "Pure Point" system and the new dashboard will be launched in April 2022. Who knows if that's actually correct or not. Needless to say, playing the waiting game to see what actually happens.

Yeah I agree on the 50% trade in being stingy, but I think that may have been because I had already had traded in something else when I bought that in 2011 and hadn’t really paid that much. The 50% trade was pretty close to the actual dollars out of my pocket when I bought it. $14k net purchase price after my trade in (I got the unit I traded in for free) vs $11k offered for trade in.

I am just back from 12 days with family on Kauai - 7 nights at WOVR Princeville, then 5 night at Marriott's Kauai Beach Club Villas (on a marketing pkg purchased pre-Covid). Had the unique (??) experience of going through 2 sales presentations in 12 days, one on each side of the upcoming merger. As you can imagine, each side had stories to tell, and none of it was entirely known by either of them. One item seems to be agreed to on both sides - Hyatt is not going to be integrated. One projected the purchase of Welk Resorts will be added to Hyatt, then the combination sold off. Who knows?

For reference, I am 5 Star Elite.

The Vistana salespeople leaned hard on selling me 4 night of Flex points use to extend my weekly stays on Maui.
Really not appealing at $14k plus $1000 more MF annually.
Pushed hard that Mexico might not be part of the go forward group, but again, could not give me any facts.
They just wanted me to trade in the EOY Lagunamar unit for the "safer" choice of the 4 Flex nights.
They also pushed hard that 8-month reservations are going to be really difficult. Stated the 440,000 MVC owners were anxious to access the ownership inventory now shared solely among the 220,000 Vistana owners. I admit those numbers gave me pause, but I have Home Resort advantage at the Maui units (that I always use) and I know it isn't good math lately but I usually trade my Mexico units for either Cabo use or Bonvoy points anyway (flights and hotels). Plus I doubt that MVC wants to alienate top tier owners, so I decided the best strategy for me is to wait and see what actually gets announced.

Then I moved on to the Marriott sales presentation, they basically repeated a lot of what you already read above - along with vague data and some thinly veiled scare tactics. They started out at $37,000 and by then end were pushing $14k so I could "get MVC DP's and systems access" 13 months ahead (sound familiar?). Pushed on Mexico vs Hawaii and buying Flex points instead. Again, familiar. Then they pulled out their price increase charts from the last decade and said how "it is likely to go up before the spring merger" at which point I worked hard not to roll my eyes. A number of owners sitting in these presentations must be taking the "wait and see" approach, as multiple incentives were piled on top too. No need for me to pay even *more* MFs before I see what the future holds. So no sale, but gained as much info as I could. Then came here to "read more". ;-).

Oh and the 5 nt, 6 day "Encore return visit" pkgs offered by each were both "Kauai only" and at exactly same price - $1,295 for studio, $1695 for 1/1.
The Marriott people offered to extend their use to 24 months vs the 18 months at Vistana. Just fyi.