Recent Hilton Buy Backs

[Bill4728]

Uh-oh. I just got back from Las Vegas on the Strip after purchasing the VIP points for $1499. I found TUG the same night I got home, and rescinded the next day after reading about resale. After pouring over TUG and resale ads for two full days, I made an offer on a resale this past Monday.

The offer was for $4,400 for Orlando on International Drive (Tuscany), 1BR, Gold, 3400 points. I am using Grand Vacations Title company. I hope they don't hold it against me that I made an offer on a resale within a week timeframe from purchasing the VIP product and rescinding... we shall see.

I'm not sure but for most gold contracts, the price point for triggering ROFR is closer to $1/pt, so I'd be very hopeful your $4400 for 3500 pts will likely pass ROFR.

 

[Redrosesix]

I'm not sure but for most gold contracts, the price point for triggering ROFR is closer to $1/pt, so I'd be very hopeful your $4400 for 3500 pts will likely pass ROFR.

Do you have an estimate on the price point for triggering ROFR for platinum contracts?

 

[bosco0633]

I was told 10500 to 11000 is where they are exercising ROFR right now. Anything under this you have no chance in my opinion.

 

[Redrosesix]

I was told 10500 to 11000 is where they are exercising ROFR right now. Anything under this you have no chance in my opinion.

Ouch!

I have seen a lot for less than that, and that means they're probably not even worth bothering with. :annoyed:

 

[alwysonvac]

Ouch!

I have seen a lot for less than that, and that means they're probably not even worth bothering with. :annoyed:

A lot for less than that? Are you talking about the same resorts?

Bosco0633 is referring to a 2 bedroom platinum (7,000 annual HGVC points) at the HGVC Developed Resorts in Florida & Vegas that have ROFR (NOTE: HGVC Flamingo has no ROFR).

Some of the HGVC affiliate resorts such as Bay Club and FAVC are going for a lot less.

 

[Redrosesix]

A lot for less than that? Are you talking about the same resorts?

Bosco0633 is referring to a 2 bedroom platinum (7,000 annual HGVC points) at the HGVC Developed Resorts in Florida & Vegas that have ROFR (NOTE: HGVC Flamingo has no ROFR).

Some of the HGVC affiliate resorts such as Bay Club and FAVC are going for a lot less.

You're probably right -- some of the ads I just re-checked had platinum written in the title, but they were only 5000 points.

There are 2 bdrm platinum, 7000 points listed on eBay starting much lower than $10,500 but I assume they get up to that price or higher.

Just learnin' -- sorry

 

[Bill4728]

A lot for less than that? Are you talking about the same resorts?

Bosco0633 is referring to a 2 bedroom platinum (7,000 annual HGVC points) at the HGVC Developed Resorts in Florida & Vegas that have ROFR (NOTE: HGVC Flamingo has no ROFR).

Some of the HGVC affiliate resorts such as Bay Club and FAVC are going for a lot less.

This is very true.

Also, some of the HGVC resorts in Hawaii are selling at a significantly higher price point than the TS in Vegas or Orlando.

 

[bosco0633]

they are cheap on ebay, but even if they sell low, they wont make it through ROFR. Also if you look at any HGVC on ebay from an agent, they all have reserves.

They actually use ebay with the intentions of selling just a couple, and using it for advertising. When you list with ebay, it brings traffic when you use google to the add, which directs you to the client. Very smart buisness move.

7000 platinum is high price right now, because HGVC is aggressively exercising ROFR.

5000 Golds are going well

 

[Redrosesix]

they are cheap on ebay, but even if they sell low, they wont make it through ROFR. Also if you look at any HGVC on ebay from an agent, they all have reserves.

They actually use ebay with the intentions of selling just a couple, and using it for advertising. When you list with ebay, it brings traffic when you use google to the add, which directs you to the client. Very smart buisness move.

I was just looking at what is apparently a 1 bdrm at HGVC Seaworld on eBay, no reserve, "red season" with the opening price $1, no reserve.

Yup, that freaked me out Not even worth the time it takes to bid, is it?

 

[natarajanv]

yup, that one is a 1BR GOLD 3400 point TS. Those usually sells for about 3K....

 

[Redrosesix]

So...since I've now decided I'm buying Gold season, not platinum, if there is a steal of a deal on eBay or anywhere else do I bother with it if it is below $1 per point? Would I just be wasting my time?

 

[natarajanv]

I dont think you will have a problem passing RFOR for a GOLD, with this economy IMHO. Also, you have nothing to lose, if you don't get it then wait for the next deal....

 

[bosco0633]

if you look many hgvc resales are with judy kozlowski, if you just call her she will find you one at a great price. You want orlando and you will be effected by ROFR.

Call her tell her what you want and what you want to spend. I think you can get one for 5000 to 5200 on a good deal. If below that, HGVC will exercise on that forsure.

if you want, send me your number in email to ratorrie@quickclic.net and I can talk to you and answer some questions you have. I was where you were a few weeks ago. It helped make the decison speaking with other people that are part of the system.

 

[Redrosesix]

yup, that one is a 1BR GOLD 3400 point TS. Those usually sells for about 3K....

Nope. This is the eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310131208380

One of the problems I'm having with this listing is that it states maintenance fees are $943. But other listings for 2 bdrm units say they're $876. It also states that the TS will be available beginning 2010 but doesn't say whether 2009 fees have been paid (I sent a message to the seller but haven't heard back)

The bidding is currently at $1225, well below the $1 per point. It's too early for me to buy now, really, but is there any way I can find out what the lowest price is that Hilton will allow?

 

[bosco0633]

I heard that the trigger right now is 5200 to 5400. There is no way that will make it past ROFR. Call judy or seth and ask them. It is impossible that they would allow this.

The taxes look right to me. the not available until 2010, means that this years points are already used. Saves you some this year.

The 425 fee is only 375 so they are adding 50.00 to the close cost. I would find out who ther are closing with, the add doesent guarantee a clear and free deed so I would be hesitant. There is alot of legal work for the deed change and I would be very cautious, the closing requires some work.

If you use judy or seth to close, they will ensure and guarantee that the deed is clear, and they take care of everything, leaving you worry free. Also this seller doesnt have a 100% feedback and they dont have a very high ebay feedback.

But at the end of the day you will pay whatever for it through this person. Payment required in 3 days so you will pay via paypal, and then once it is denied ROFR, your money MAY be returned to you, via paypal minus paypal fees. So you will lose the paypal fees, then paypal will charge you a fee to cash that money out.

I know ebay very well and have been buying and selling for several years. I would honestly be cautious here. Call seth or judy. I know that judy has a large inventory. There is one right now on the updated sale list that I saw at 5200.00. I bet you could offer 5000 and get lucky. I think you can get it at this price, even 5200 is good price then they will have to get creative with closing costs in the contract to get it past ROFR.

 

[bosco0633]

last thing, getting a good deal is one thing, but thinking that you are going to get one for really cheap is not going to happen here. The ROFR that HGVC will guarantee it.

I understand your thoughts, trust me, I too really thought that I could steal one of these from ebay, it just is not possible in this case.

 

[Redrosesix]

last thing, getting a good deal is one thing, but thinking that you are going to get one for really cheap is not going to happen here. The ROFR that HGVC will guarantee it.

I understand your thoughts, trust me, I too really thought that I could steal one of these from ebay, it just is not possible in this case.

Oh, yes. That's what I was thinking too. Just interesting that the bidding is so low with less than 1 day left to go. And with no reserve.

I'm not ready to buy, but I am going to be following the listings for a while, as well as this thread.

BTW, thanks for posting those ROFR stats Seth. Veeeerrrry helpful

 

[rmschiltz]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this. I was following a 7000 pt HGVC on ebay for around $3000. It went up a little here and there. I think it was around $4,500 the day before closing. The last few hours the bidding started and went up to $9,100. So Ebay may look like a good deal if there are a few days left. I am not an owner yet, but I am starting to think that between the ROFR and that these are quality timeshares, there are no great steals.

 

[bosco0633]

you are right. I purchased my TS last week, and Judy had sold 9 units that week alone. She sends out a monthly great deals list which aggressively prices units off to sale.

It is true about the quality and demand. I think that more and more people are realizing the advantage of resale and going that way instead of through the company.

I think the internet, has ultimately become the demise of the high sales by the HGVC. I believe that you will see the developer prices begin to decline to meet more online with the resale prices. Not dollar for dollar, but I believe that developer prices will have to come down. especially in this economy. Hell HGVC must see how good the resale market is, they cut out elite status for resales as a deterrant to buy from developer.

 

[thinze3]

It's hard to belieive that HGVC can still continue to execute ROFR at these prices in todays market.

The Blackstone group (owner of Hilton) has seen its stock drop by as much as 90% only to recover somewhat in recent days. It borrowed $20B of the $26B it payed for Hilton in 2007 which was the absolute peak of the market. I just don't see how HGVC's ROFR can continue amid tight financial credit markets, and would venture to bet that Hilton (Blackstone) will allow anything but absolute bargains to get through ROFR, either now or in the very near future.

IMHO

 

[jestme]

It's hard to belieive that HGVC can still continue to execute ROFR at these prices in todays market.

The Blackstone group (owner of Hilton) has seen its stock drop by as much as 90% only to recover somewhat in recent days. It borrowed $20B of the $26B it payed for Hilton in 2007 which was the absolute peak of the market. I just don't see how HGVC's ROFR can continue amid tight financial credit markets, and would venture to bet that Hilton (Blackstone) will allow anything but absolute bargains to get through ROFR, either now or in the very near future.

IMHO

Hilton built these resorts in places where there is high demand for either timeshare or hotels. If they can get back the high demand ones for a reasonable price, they will do it. They are in the business of selling timeshares, and they aren't going out of business. They can always let the hotel division rent them out at peaks in the interim until they sell. The resorts in Florida during hurricane season are much harder to sell or rent as a hotel, so they leave them alone and let someone else pay the maintenance fees on them.
Also, keep in mind that some owners are paying for theirs on the monthly payment plan. If they ROFR the high demand season ones of those, Hilton gives money to the seller, who in turn, gives them the money right back to pay off the loan. They love it. It effectively costs them nothing, and they get a high demand unit / week back.

 

[Seth Nock]

It is cheaper for Hilton to exercise right of first refusal than to build new. That also helps retain value for its owners. They can choose the inventory they want back (only buying the units they need on their sales floor). I don't expect them to back down on their right of first refusal.

Regarding EBAY, be careful. Make sure you use a reliable closing company and make sure you are getting a title search. When a company says they guarantee you get clean title, ask them what they mean, as there is nothing backing up their guarantee. There are many companies on EBAY acting as brokers, but that are not licensed. There are other companies that have taken money from the buyers and not given them the property or a refund.

 

[Redrosesix]

It is cheaper for Hilton to exercise right of first refusal than to build new. That also helps retain value for its owners. They can choose the inventory they want back (only buying the units they need on their sales floor). I don't expect them to back down on their right of first refusal.

Regarding EBAY, be careful. Make sure you use a reliable closing company and make sure you are getting a title search. When a company says they guarantee you get clean title, ask them what they mean, as there is nothing backing up their guarantee. There are many companies on EBAY acting as brokers, but that are not licensed. There are other companies that have taken money from the buyers and not given them the property or a refund.

Is it possible to have a broker that you trust look at a possible ebay purchase, or any purchase? Sure, it would mean paying a little more but I wouldn't see it as any different than having your own real estate broker and/or lawyer follow up on private listings for houses.

 

[thinze3]

It is cheaper for Hilton to exercise right of first refusal than to build new. That also helps retain value for its owners. They can choose the inventory they want back (only buying the units they need on their sales floor). I don't expect them to back down on their right of first refusal.

My two cents.

Cheaper than construction and choosing inventory, this is the case for ALL timeshare companies. Why is it any different for HGVC?

As far as retaining value for its owners, do you really think Blackstone cares so much about its owners? This company is nothing more than a hedge fund looking for ways to make quick cash for it investors.

 

[jestme]

My two cents.


As far as retaining value for its owners, do you really think Blackstone cares so much about its owners? This company is nothing more than a hedge fund looking for ways to make quick cash for it investors.

First off, not all timeshare companies have ROFR, that is why you can buy some on eBay for $1.00.
Let's see, 110,000 HGVC owners, paying avg. $800 / year in MF's, $88,000,000 / year revenue stream and cash flow. Yes, I do think they care.
Lowering asset values isn't typically what hedge funds do. If you could get your hands on a $15000 asset for $5000, would you do it? Would it improve your net book value at the end of the day? That, is exactly what Blackstone is looking to do.
Seth is right. ROFR is here to stay, and they will continue to selectively use it to their advantage.