Recent Hilton Buy Backs

[DEROS]

When the resale purchase passes ROFR, HGVC sends a one page document titled the "Waiver of Right of First Refusal". The one page document includes the sellers names, buyer names and the contract number along with a HGVC notarized signature. This one page document was included with my closing documents.

I just look at my ROFR and there was no notarized signature. To tell you the truth the signature is a squiggly line. However, I have used my points already, 2008, and reserved rooms in 2009. Also, paid MF for two years. I don't plan to sell any time soon but I hope there is no issue if I do.

Deros

 

[scififan]

Does anyone know how long it takes to receive closing documents and the actual deed? All I got was a copy of the recorded deed 3 weeks ago. I am in the hilton system, though, and my points do show up.

I'm assuming everything was handled correctly, as this purchase was done through Seth and a closing company he recommended.

 

[Talent312]

I just look at my ROFR and there was no notarized signature. To tell you the truth the signature is a squiggly line... I don't plan to sell any time soon but I hope there is no issue if I do.

If you to sell, your buyer may want confirmation that Hilton was duly noticed and effectively waived its rights in the past, giving you clear title. Although not required, I recorded my Waiver in the public records.

If it somehow came to light that there was a notice to Hilton that differed from the actual transaction in a material respect, your buyer could back out and Hilton could sue to set aside the Waiver. The likelihood of this happening may be small, but it simply isn't worth taking the risk.

 

[Seth Nock]

Wow, that is incredible! If you are aware of this fraud, I am sure Hilton is as well. Isn't there anything that Hilton can do to stop this (I assume) illegal behavior?

Their legal department is aware and working on it.

 

[Seth Nock]

Seth,

Not saying you're wrong, but wondering exactly what you mean as all three of my resale purcahses passed ROFR before I ever signed any documents. Do you mean the broker is forging the Sellers signature?

And yours.

 

[Seth Nock]

IMHO Hilton simply wouldn't recognize the new owner if they didn't sign off on ROFR.

They did, at higher sale prices.

 

[Seth Nock]

If you to sell, your buyer may want confirmation that Hilton was duly noticed and effectively waived its rights in the past, giving you clear title. Although not required, I recorded my Waiver in the public records.

If it somehow came to light that there was a notice to Hilton that differed from the actual transaction in a material respect, your buyer could back out and Hilton could sue to set aside the Waiver. The likelihood of this happening may be small, but it simply isn't worth taking the risk.

Hilton does not require it in Public records. Disney does.

 

[Seth Nock]

I just look at my ROFR and there was no notarized signature. To tell you the truth the signature is a squiggly line. However, I have used my points already, 2008, and reserved rooms in 2009. Also, paid MF for two years. I don't plan to sell any time soon but I hope there is no issue if I do.

Deros

It will only come to light when you attempt to sell the unit.

 

[hicksville]

Wow- I used Judy for my purchase, and after reading all this, would never consider anything other than reputable people like her and Seth. Too many potential issues to try to save a few $ on eb@y

 

[eugeneleemd]

does anyone know which company is involved? is it one of the ones on ebay? how can you or hilton know if there's anything fishy with the rofr process? if your purchase is tainted, what happens to the money and the property? i wonder if the property goes back to hilton (at the tru purchase price, lower than the fake listed rofr price) and you then hope and pray to get your money back from the "broker". either way i think the original seller is ok.

 

[Bustah]

And yours.

I've never received a Waiver document with my signature forged.

I have received signed ROFR documents signed by Hilton Resorts, but don't see a sales price on one and only typed name of seller and buyer on all. I've used Chicago Title for my closing and actually have three different sets of documents from them for each of the three purchases I've made.

All that being said, what should we be requesting from the Closing Company to help ensure this resale never kicks back in our face: Title insurance? Warranty Deed? Signed ROFR from Hilton with accurate purchase price?

Not sure if this is fun learning or not

 

[Sandy VDH]

When the resale purchase passes ROFR, HGVC sends a one page document titled the "Waiver of Right of First Refusal". The one page document includes the sellers names, buyer names and the contract number along with a HGVC notarized signature. This one page document was included with my closing documents.

I guess that is a red flag for everyone to check. Do you have a ROFR document with sellers name, buyers name, contract number, price and notarized HGVC signature. If not I think it might be a problem.

Perhaps that is why there have been a number of sales recently posted that are below what Hilton has been picking up by ROFR. Certainly 10K for a 7K week seems below their exercise $$ levels lately.

Do you have any upgraded $$ figures Seth or which has or has not passed ROFR?

 

[RLG]

I don't really understand what incentive the seller would have for submitting fraudulent ROFR papers. If Hilton exercises ROFR, the seller still gets the same amount of money, and even has the opportunity to sell another unit.

 

[Talent312]

... what should we be requesting from the Closing Company to help ensure this resale never kicks back in our face: Title insurance? Warranty Deed? Signed ROFR from Hilton with accurate purchase price?

Along with the Request for Waiver, Hilton gets a copy of your contract for sale. But this process may be handled without the Buyer's direct involvement. Thus, the opportunity for forged signatures or numbers.

Typically, buyers only get a copy of the Waiver (after approval) and their Deed (post recording). To be sure that the Request comports with the "real" contract, a buyer needs to see the Request as submitted, but frankly, most buyers won't get that involved, settling merely for the closing agent's assurance.

IMHO, TS title insurance is a rediculously expensive extravagance. I'd say a buyer should go it only if they paid more money for the property than they are willing to lose, or willing to spend on legal fees.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I don't really understand what incentive the seller would have for submitting fraudulent ROFR papers. If Hilton exercises ROFR, the seller still gets the same amount of money, and even has the opportunity to sell another unit.

I doubt that it is the seller doing it, but rather the agent/broker. Perhaps the agent/broker is wanting more deals to go through perhaps, or commission are reduced/eliminated if HGVC takes the unit, and then they have worked for nothing or a reduced commission. No really sure, but if the seller knew that it would not pass or was questionable to pass ROFR why give the unit away for less.

 

[thinze3]

OK. Something I still don't understand. Are you guys stating that if your ROFR letter has only a "squiggly line" as a signature and is NOT notarized, then HGVC will still allow issue your annual points and allow you to book your units each year? ... and you will not have any problems until you try to sell your HGVC unit?

Please explain, as this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Seth Nock]

I've never received a Waiver document with my signature forged.

I have received signed ROFR documents signed by Hilton Resorts, but don't see a sales price on one and only typed name of seller and buyer on all. I've used Chicago Title for my closing and actually have three different sets of documents from them for each of the three purchases I've made.

All that being said, what should we be requesting from the Closing Company to help ensure this resale never kicks back in our face: Title insurance? Warranty Deed? Signed ROFR from Hilton with accurate purchase price?

Not sure if this is fun learning or not

If you used Chicago Title, you are fine. The company only sends Hilton he forged docs, not the customers. It is an EBAY seller. Due to potentially pending litigation, I cannot give the name of the company.

 

[Seth Nock]

I guess that is a red flag for everyone to check. Do you have a ROFR document with sellers name, buyers name, contract number, price and notarized HGVC signature. If not I think it might be a problem.

Perhaps that is why there have been a number of sales recently posted that are below what Hilton has been picking up by ROFR. Certainly 10K for a 7K week seems below their exercise $$ levels lately.

Do you have any upgraded $$ figures Seth or which has or has not passed ROFR?

Actually, you won't get that much info on the waiver. Make sure you use a licensed and bonded escrow company that allows you to take title insurance if you choose to take it (you may choose not to take it, but make sure it is allowed - and make sure to get a title search at a minimum).

 

[Seth Nock]

I doubt that it is the seller doing it, but rather the agent/broker. Perhaps the agent/broker is wanting more deals to go through perhaps, or commission are reduced/eliminated if HGVC takes the unit, and then they have worked for nothing or a reduced commission. No really sure, but if the seller knew that it would not pass or was questionable to pass ROFR why give the unit away for less.

The unlicensed broker is taking the units from the seller with power of attorneys. They are telling the seller that it is worthless and often charging the sellers to get rid of the units. If the unit was bought by the developer, and the check was sent to the seller, the seller would know they had been scammed, and the unlicensed broker may not get their check. That is why the unlicensed broker may forge right of first refusal docs. They also own the closing company, so they have no one to oversee the closing process. Note, it is realy a closing company, not escrow company, as it is not third party.

 

[Seth Nock]

OK. Something I still don't understand. Are you guys stating that if your ROFR letter has only a "squiggly line" as a signature and is NOT notarized, then HGVC will still allow issue your annual points and allow you to book your units each year? ... and you will not have any problems until you try to sell your HGVC unit?

Please explain, as this doesn't make any sense to me.

No, it has nothing to do with the waiver, but what documents led up to the waiver. Make sure you are using a licensed and bonded escrow company.

 

[Seth Nock]

IMHO, TS title insurance is a rediculously expensive extravagance. I'd say a buyer should go it only if they paid more money for the property than they are willing to lose, or willing to spend on legal fees.

It you buy a unit and do not have clean title, you may never be able to get rid of it, forcing you to pay maintenance fees, when you may no longer want the unit. Make sure you have a minimum of a title search, if you don't want to pay for the insurance.

 

[Redrosesix]

No, it has nothing to do with the waiver, but what documents led up to the waiver. Make sure you are using a licensed and bonded escrow company.

I'm still totally confused about this. Since I'm not even sure about what should normally happen in a purchase, I'm not getting how signatures could be forged yet HGVC still honours the change of name on the TS.

Could somebody please explain the main issue here so I can at least understand this conversation?

 

[Hawaii 5-0]

It you buy a unit and do not have clean title, you may never be able to get rid of it, forcing you to pay maintenance fees, when you may no longer want the unit.

Why would you be forced to pay maintenance fees if you are not the legal owner?

 

[Talent312]

Could somebody please explain the main issue here so I can at least understand this conversation?

As you know (or should know), in nearly all resales of Hilton TS's, Hilton has a Right of First Refusal (ROFR) in which HGVC is entitled to notice and a copy of any sales contract. If HGVC so elects, it can step into the shoes of the buyer and say to the parties, "We'll buy it for that price." OTOH, if the price is too high for HGVC's taste, they'll issue a "Waiver" -- its this waiver that is a the heart of this matter. Without a valid waiver, based on a "true" notice, the buyer does not obtain clear title... even if HGVC gives them a membership (for the time being).

 

[thinze3]

I'm still totally confused about this. Since I'm not even sure about what should normally happen in a purchase, I'm not getting how signatures could be forged yet HGVC still honours the change of name on the TS.

Could somebody please explain the main issue here so I can at least understand this conversation?

My point exactly. It appears that people are being scared into using "certified" agents only on this thread. If you have closed on your timeshare, and HGVC recognizes you as the owner, who cares where you bought it. This happens everyday with other developers including Marriott and Starwood. Why is HGVC any different?

I have bought two Marriotts, from PCC's no less, and have had no problems but have saved upteen thousand dollars. .... and Marriott DID NOT execute ROFR on either of them. Right now is the time to make low ball offers and get great deals on ALL timeshares if you are in the market. IMO