Quickest/cheapest way to 148,100 SO's by upgrading and/or retroing???

[Joshadelic]

Barbra - Would you still say the same thing if the purchase(s) were going to be financed? Because they are...

In the scenario I mentioned above, 1/2 of the $17.5k ($8,750) would be financed for 1 year at 5.9% or 2 years at 7.9%...making the payments (of course) with a *Wood AMEX. I can make more than 6-8% with simple investments, so why not?

 

[DavidnRobin]

The 200,000 SP's I could get - I'm estimating will get me about $15k worth of hotel rooms when my wife and I travel to Europe in a couple of years.

Wow - alot was writen while I was rambling.

I would strongly disagree that 200K SPs is worth $15K... yes, you can get good value when using for EU hotels (as we are planning) and can attempt to justify in that manner. We got about the same amount of SPs when we bought our EOY WPORV, but I put the cost at a more reasonable $5K. Take into account for the loss of value of what you are buying from SVO in order to get those SPs.

PS - I think Starwood sells SPs for 3.5c/SP (if I recall correctly) - 200K comes out to ~$7K. The airline redemption comes out to ~1.3c/SP.

 

[Ken555]

What if it allowed my wife and I (and maybe the kids) to take a vacation we normally wouldn't have been able to take and provided us with a lifetime of happy memories to share together and with our family? That's something I can't put a pricetag on.

I can't make that determination for you; only you can answer this question. However, the hotel "cost" has a real $$$ value associated with it, as per your SBP purchase plan you will spend about $15k for this trip.

If SPs are going to be valuable to you, then I would look at a resale Platinum WMH or SDO (as an example) this year. Use it via II or go to the resort in 2009, and when your finances permit buy a week direct from the developer and requal this week at that time. You'll then get at least the 148,100 SOs for the Plat WMH/SDO week and another x SOs from the developer purchase (I suggest only Platinum purchases due to long-term use). If Plat @ 148.1 then you'd have 296,200 and well on your way to 5* status.

When does your Explorer Package expire?

 

[Joshadelic]

The explorer doesn't expire until the end of 2009, so I have plenty of time. I'm not married to the idea of buying into SBP. I'd definitely consider other properties...in fact, I'd probably prefer them.

 

[clsmit]

I'd consider buying SBP just because it's relatively close to Boston (compared to every other Starwood property; you could drive there in a long day or 2 decent days), it's an excellent II trader, and it's not a bad place to stay. It has nice beaches and fun putt putt. Because the Palmetto phase is still being sold you can resell/requal there, but the Staroption values are lower than WMH.

Are you planning on staying in Boston after your wife gets done with school? It's a great place, but there are other places to work in the world. That might also be something to think about. You might want to just rent until you're settled.

IMHO it's kinda nice to visit 'your' resort, altho many people don't ever go to the ones they buy (like SDKath, who'd use her DVC points to go to Mouseland instead of staying at her Falls places across the street! Just teasing, Kath! ).

BTW, my now-DH and I almost bought a TS right out of grad school, too. From a developer. So I kinda know what you're thinking thru. We decided against it then (wayyy too many student loans) but it works for us now. It wouldn't have then, tho. We didn't expect all the job changes and life fun in the interim....

 

[Joshadelic]

We'll probably be in the Boston area for at least another 8 years. When the kids go to college we're talking about moving somewhere warm...maybe Florida or California (more likely Florida). I've always loved the idea of having a timeshare in the southwest, so the suggestions of WKV and WMH are fine with me, I was just trying to find the cheapest way to get the # of SO's we're looking for right now - and that doesn't seem like the way to do it. In the long run it could be cheaper with MF's slightly lower, but I'm also concerned with upfront costs.

 

[capjak]

Here is a different option:

1. Buy EOY WKV (148,000) for $11K for starwood internal trades etc.(get starpoints via Amx credit card).

2. Buy HGVC 7000 points for $10,00 to 12,000 which has ability to convert to Hilton Honors points every year for your Europe trip (Hilton has more hotels than starwood in more places) MF of around $1000

This gives you II and RCI access for trades, Hotel points (if that is really what you want) and two timeshare systems.

Also for staroints you can get AMx Starwood card (20,000 starpoints 10,000 each both you and spouse), open Ameritrade account with $25,000 (25,000 starpoints), go and do starwood timeshare presentation in Orlando to collect your 30,000 starpoints from the presentation (do not purchase)

Total starpoints=75,000 (additional out of pocket $0.....priceless....)

 

[stevens397]

Wow - what responses. I'm sure you're more confused than ever!

But so am I! I'm still not quite sure what your ultimate goals are. They could be:

1. Getting to 5* and converting all the timeshares to points
2. Using them all either at the resorts themselves or trading.
3. With lockouts, having between 4 and 8 weeks of vacation a year from timshares alone, in which case, you have to figure out just how much PFL is worth - just how many weeks can you take off?!

SDKath is the master of 5* but I repeat the advice I gave to you a week ago. You are, I think, putting the cart before the horse. You don't even own one yet but you're talking about owning four! As I said to you earlier, if you want Lagunamar in high season and you want to be in SVN, then buy there from the developer. But I would most certainly recommend that you purchase something like I just did - Mission Hills - first and requalify it. It will then get you 148,100 SO and 72,000 SP if desired.

If you were absolutely certain that you wanted 5*, then the best way is to buy TWO WMH or the like, purchase Lagunamar Gold to requal one and then upgrade your developer purchase to Platinum to requal the other. All that said, why not rent a place first and be certain you really like it. As you can see, selling what you own is not always easy and is almost always a pain in the neck.

In terms of points, this argument will go on forever. Yes, I would never have paid full price (or even half price) for Air France First Class, but I'm so glad we got to do it and we will never forget it. What's that worth??? If SP had not been so devalued these last two years, I'd be on the road to 5* myself. But look at all the airlines and you can see they have to make it harder and harder. They are all losing money and can't give seats away - and there are trillions of miles out there awaiting redemption. My plans for a Starwood Points IRA are gone! Earn em and Burn em!

In the end, you first must clarify exactly what you want to achieve. If you are even thinking about 5*, at some point you have to purchase from the developer. In that case, you should certainly buy a resale first so you can save a bundle.

 

[Joshadelic]

2. Buy HGVC 7000 points for $10,00 to 12,000 which has ability to convert to Hilton Honors points every year for your Europe trip (Hilton has more hotels than starwood in more places) MF of around $1000

I don't know too much about the Hilton system, but I am VERY partial to Starwood, so I doubt I will buy anything other than that. Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

[Joshadelic]

Wow - what responses. I'm sure you're more confused than ever!

But so am I! I'm still not quite sure what your ultimate goals are. They could be:

1. Getting to 5* and converting all the timeshares to points
2. Using them all either at the resorts themselves or trading.
3. With lockouts, having between 4 and 8 weeks of vacation a year from timshares alone, in which case, you have to figure out just how much PFL is worth - just how many weeks can you take off?!

SDKath is the master of 5* but I repeat the advice I gave to you a week ago. You are, I think, putting the cart before the horse. You don't even own one yet but you're talking about owning four! As I said to you earlier, if you want Lagunamar in high season and you want to be in SVN, then buy there from the developer. But I would most certainly recommend that you purchase something like I just did - Mission Hills - first and requalify it. It will then get you 148,100 SO and 72,000 SP if desired.

If you were absolutely certain that you wanted 5*, then the best way is to buy TWO WMH or the like, purchase Lagunamar Gold to requal one and then upgrade your developer purchase to Platinum to requal the other. All that said, why not rent a place first and be certain you really like it. As you can see, selling what you own is not always easy and is almost always a pain in the neck.

In terms of points, this argument will go on forever. Yes, I would never have paid full price (or even half price) for Air France First Class, but I'm so glad we got to do it and we will never forget it. What's that worth??? If SP had not been so devalued these last two years, I'd be on the road to 5* myself. But look at all the airlines and you can see they have to make it harder and harder. They are all losing money and can't give seats away - and there are trillions of miles out there awaiting redemption. My plans for a Starwood Points IRA are gone! Earn em and Burn em!

In the end, you first must clarify exactly what you want to achieve. If you are even thinking about 5*, at some point you have to purchase from the developer. In that case, you should certainly buy a resale first so you can save a bundle.

My goals are for now to get to 3*, then within 5-7 years get to 5*. I don't think I would ever trade ALL of my weeks for points, but I would like the option to if it were needed. I don't have enough time to take 4 weeks of vacation every year right now, but I always make time for a minimum of 2 weeks. Having 159K SO's would get me either a week at a prime location or 2 weeks elsewhere. One of the other reasons I am trying to get everything I'm doing into SVN is for convenience. I need to have the ability to combine all of my points and make ONE reservation. I know it may cost a little more right now to have those few benefits that not a lot of people see worthwhile, but I can actually see the value in some of them.

I think your idea of buying 2 WHM (or SDO, WKV) then retroing them in 2 phases is probably a VERY good idea. It fits my budget for the moment and will get me the SO's I need now.

Just to clarify, I have already gone through the "stay at a timeshare for a week and see if you like it" stage. I know it's what I want to do. My family likes the larger accomodations...very much. One thing that they say at the 1.5 hour grillings that I actually believe is true is that in the long run it's not more expensive to TS than to rent hotel rooms. Even if it were a bit more expensive, I'd still do it because we like to spread out!

Thank you all for taking the time to walk me through this...it can be a little confusing.

 

[stevens397]

Your reasons were the same as mine. Especially the living room I can go to when I wake up at 6 AM and wait for my wife to get up at 8:30AM!

That said, when we bought our first one, my wife's only concerns was that it not mean that all of our vacations were to be spent in timeshares. And we haven't done that - that's where the points came in great. The only time I ever traded Kierland in for points was last year. I reserved Super Bowl weekend thinking I'd get tons of money for the rental. Nothing ever materialized and I was thrilled to be able to dump it off to Starwood for some value. Pretty much paid for one of our British Air Business Class tickets to Italy this summer so the value was certainly there for me.

Sent you a PM

Steve

 

[capjak]

I don't know too much about the Hilton system, but I am VERY partial to Starwood, so I doubt I will buy anything other than that. Thanks for the suggestion though!

and this is why this site is here to research and determine YOUR best options.

 

[Ken555]

If you were absolutely certain that you wanted 5*, then the best way is to buy TWO WMH or the like, purchase Lagunamar Gold to requal one and then upgrade your developer purchase to Platinum to requal the other.

This is a good idea. A variant may also be buying the two EY WMH/SDO 148k weeks, and then buy two EOY weeks from the developer to requal both. I believe they're still doing that (all based on purchase price, I think). If true, you would have more SOs than you know what to do with at this point.

---

In fact, you might simply buy one of those EY WMH weeks now, then just a single EOY developer week to requal it. That would/may fit more within your budget...but if you get Plat weeks (even EOY from dev) I think you will end up paying a lot more $$$ than you want right now. Hmm... I'm back to thinking Kierland is better...

 

[pointsjunkie]

Barbra - Would you still say the same thing if the purchase(s) were going to be financed? Because they are...

IMO----DO NOT BUY ANY TIMESHARE THAT NEEDS TO BE FINANCED!!!!!!

this an Absolute luxury item and if you can't charge it on amex and then pay it off the next month in FULL then DO NOT DO IT. I would buy resale as inexpensively as possible,save your money to buy the deveoper purchase, then purchase it ONLY when you can pay it in full!!!!

 

[Ken555]

IMO----DO NOT BUY ANY TIMESHARE THAT NEEDS TO BE FINANCED!!!!!!

this an Absolute luxury item and if you can't charge it on amex and then pay it off the next month in FULL then DO NOT DO IT. I would buy resale as inexpensively as possible,save your money to buy the deveoper purchase, then purchase it ONLY when you can pay it in full!!!!

Generally, I think you're spot on with this opinion. However, there are times when short-term financing makes sense. I can't really fault Josh on this, since it's clear they've thought through the financing part.

 

[Joshadelic]

IMO----DO NOT BUY ANY TIMESHARE THAT NEEDS TO BE FINANCED!!!!!!

Who said I NEEDED to finance it?

 

[pointsjunkie]

Who said I NEEDED to finance it?

i was responding to Denise M's question to me. of course very short financing (a few months) imo would be OK. i was referring to the people who take out a mortgage on the timeshare that starwood offers that is not a good idea unless you plan to pay it in full within 6 months.

as we all know timeshares loose its value the minute you purchase it from the developer, so to have a mortgage on it and if life happens and you need to sell it (no one would purchase a timeshare that comes with payments.they want a clear deal.that is why i think financing is a bad idea.

 

[pointsjunkie]

In the scenario I mentioned above, 1/2 of the $17.5k ($8,750) would be financed for 1 year at 5.9% or 2 years at 7.9%...making the payments (of course) with a *Wood AMEX. I can make more than 6-8% with simple investments, so why not?

didn't you say you were going to finance it? i thought i read that?

 

[Joshadelic]

didn't you say you were going to finance it? i thought i read that?

I am GOING TO finance it. I just said I don't NEED to finance it. When the rates are lower than the return I can get on the same money, then it makes sense to me. Most people can't average over 8% on their investments, so maybe it wouldn't be a good idea for them. I'd rather have the money available to use in that way.

 

[pointsjunkie]

i am up your way, in rhode island.

you will be getting double starpoints for each payment so then go for it.

i am one of the few here who uses the starpoint conversion. but i don't own in hawaii and i don't convert my HRA. we have gone on amaziong starpoint trips. 2-3 a year.

 

[Joshadelic]

From your username, I can tell you LOVE them!!!

 

[pointsjunkie]

From your username, I can tell you LOVE them!!!

not just starpoints ,i am also a FF miles junkie. travelled 5 times this year first class for free.

 

[tomandrobin]

I am one of the few here who uses the starpoint conversion. but i don't own in hawaii and i don't convert my HRA. we have gone on amaziong starpoint trips. 2-3 a year.

While we have not converted to Starpoints either, we will one day. We do have several trips planned that we are going to use the Starpoints.

 

[Joshadelic]

SO - getting back to the original topic...

Right now, I really only want a total of 148,100 - 159,000 SO's. That being said, I think the best thing for me to do is to purchase a Platinum SDO, WMH, WKV or the like that has a value of 81,000 SO's, then requalify it with my developer purchase at Lagumamar for another 81,000 SO's. I just realized that requalifying a gold week is stupid because you're paying the same MF's as someone who owns a platinum week. That way, I'll be 3*, have all the benefits I was looking for and stay within my budget for now.

I know you guys are going to say don't requl anything other than a 148,100 SO resale, but I'm trying to scale that model back to fit my budget for the moment.

Am I more on the right track now guys???

 

[tlpnet]

I'm not sure what a 1BR WMH Platinum (81,000 SO's) costs, but you can pick up a 2BR (148,1000) for $10K. I would go for the 2BR.

I know that to requalify any purchase by making a developer purchase of a Hawaii or Caribbean property, you have to spend at least $40K on the developer purchase. I'm not sure if the same rule applies for Mexico, or maybe the WLR purchase you're planning to make is over $40k. Just be aware of the rule (Starwood has plenty of them.)

-tim