Quickest/cheapest way to 148,100 SO's by upgrading and/or retroing???

[Joshadelic]

I did A LOT of searching, but only found several methods of reaching 5* Elite status. As many of you know from advising me over the last week or so, I'm trying to take full advantage of the *Wood system and purchase my first property. I want all of the benefits of SVN, so a developer purchase is necessary. I'm flexible on the location, although I'm partial to Lagunamar. I'm more interested in getting the SO's to trade within SVN, accumulating a lot of bonus SP's and having low MF's.

Now that I know I can retro and upgrade in the same transaction, could you guys walk me through some scenarios that may work to get me to the 148,100 SO level (159k would be nice too since it's 3*)?

Maybe some of you who have pulled this off before can give me a play by play. Keep in mind that I have an Explorer package that I can use towards my developer purchase - up to $1695 or 10% of the purchase (whichever is less). - and will net me 75K SP's plus whatever the current incentives are.

Thanks in advance to whoever is patient enough to answer!!!

~Josh

 

[tomandrobin]

Read SDKath's upgrade to 5* sticky at the top of the forum.

 

[Joshadelic]

Read SDKath's upgrade to 5* sticky at the top of the forum.

I did, but I guess I'm having a problem in my head "downscaling" that process to make it work for only 3*. I'll keep trying. In the meantime, if anyone can think any faster than me (which is HIGHLY likely), please leave your thoughts here!!!

Thank you!!!!

~Josh

 

[pointsjunkie]

if you buy an annual resale at wkv and then buy at lagunamar that will get you to 3* and the mf's there are very reasonable. do a purchase on ebay, the entire transaction will take 3 months. don't forget to get to 3* you need 2 units and have 159000 staroptions. so if you know what you want at lagunamar then figure out what you need at the westin kierland village. i would get the 2 br l/o plat worth 148100 in case you want to go on to 4 or 5*/ you never know. that's how i started. buy where you want to go. we love orlando, arizona and the atlantis so that's where we bought.we have traded into most of the other places minus hawaii, and wsj. i am a big fan of converting to starpoints. i converted 2 units this year. i rented out 5 units and used the rest for vacations. if you know how to work the system it is amazing.

 

[Joshadelic]

Keep in mind I'm trying to do this on a small budget. I'm looking at some options here...

There's a SBP 2BR Gold+ EY (67,100 SO's) that I could probably buy for under $1000. I could use that to upgrade to another unit at SBP that has a higher SO value (maybe 2BR LO Plat 95,700 SO's). Then I could find another resale SBP with a value of 67,100 SO's to requalify. That would give me a total of 162,800 SO's - which is enough for 3*. The MF for both would be a total of $1752 per year. I would also get 120,000 SO's for upgrading to the 2BR LO. I can also use my Explorer package towards the purchase which would yield me another 75,000 SP's.

The net $$$ difference when doing the upgrade at SBP should be around $15-18k at the most. I can probably get the other resale to requalify for under $1000.

So, the big picture would be:

2 X 67,100 SO's bought for $1000 each
1 upgraded to 95,700 SO's with a net selling price of say $17,000, minus my explorer package cost of $1700 - giving me a true net cost of $15,300. The other requalified to give me all of the SVN benefits.

Total cost would be $17,300 for 162,800 SO's with all of the benefits available (including 3*, Gold SPG, etc...) and 205,000 bonus SP's!

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME IF MY MATH OR LOGIC IS FLAWED HERE IN ANY WAY!!!! I've been looking at numbers for far too long today!

~Josh

 

[DavidnRobin]

My question would be why?
3* Elite is just not worth it and the advantage of 4* Elite is the ability to waitlist while having a reservation - while better - stil not worth the price. So...what I mean by this - if you don't want 5* (and get to PFL) - I would take Elite status off of your goal. Now with it off of your goal - what are you trying to do? From what you said - you are looking to get as many SPs as possible AND be able to convert SOs to SPs and get your best value in doing so...

If this is the end game for you - why not just buy Lagunamar (WLR) from SVO and be done with it? Buying a resale unit and requaling with WLR will cost you more, and give you some benefit with regards to having more SO-SP conversion, but rarely is that conversion worth the money paid. If this is your goal - find the cheapest V resort resale with the best SO-SP conversion, and then requal it.

Requaling a M resort doesn't get full value for the requal as it does for a V resort because they are already in SVN - and as said - the price paid for a M resort compared to a V resort (incl MFs) is unlikely worth the effort.

 

[Ken555]

Call me crazy, but I think you should buy those SBP $1000 units and simply use them there or deposit via II (and get the Starwood 3 day preference).

I get the feeling you're not ready to go to Elite 5 star, and I agree with others that 3 or 4* isn't worth the investment. As I've posted before, I don't think buying direct makes sense the majority of the time. And, given your budget I really don't understand why you want the ability to convert to StarPoints. Converting to StarPoints is typically a bad investment - especially when you consider what you'll get for them (a hotel room...). I think you'll get more bang for your buck buying a mandatory resale - assuming you want SVN membership. Don't feel locked into buying direct just because you have the Explorer package...

 

[DeniseM]

I agree with David & Ken. Wait 6 mos. and then decide if you still want to do this - doing your homework on TUG for those 6 mos., of course.

I'll bet you a Mai Tai that in 6 mos. you will still want to buy a TS, but you will have an entirely different plan!

 

[Ken555]

I agree with David & Ken. Wait 6 mos. and then decide if you still want to do this - doing your homework on TUG for those 6 mos., of course.

I'll bet you a Mai Tai that in 6 mos. you will still want to buy a TS, but you will have an entirely different plan!

I agree 100% with Denise on this! (We are a mutual admiration society, of course...).

When I started investigating timeshares, I rented one for a couple of nights in Palm Springs and visited all the majors in the area to get an idea of what they each had to offer. I toured all of the Marriotts, Westin, Club Intrawest, etc. Then I rented (from TUG!) a week at a Marriott on the east coast to experience a full week. And, only after that experience did I decide to buy a test week - which in my case was an EOY Westin Mission Hills (resale). I had such a great time there I bought a Westin Kierland resale while I was at WMH. All of this took 6-9 months, if I recall correctly. And, what I ended up with was *NOT* my initial plan.

Take your time. The deals will be around next year. And, buying a cheap SBP week like the ones you found may be a great way to test the system for a small investment.

 

[Joshadelic]

Well, my goal was to get on the right foot to one day have 5*Elite.

I'm not sure why this wouldn't be a good deal since most people here would say buying WKV resale for $20K and 148,100 SO's is a great deal. I think the way I worked this scenario out seems to get me more SO's, bonus SP's of over 200k and complete SVN benefits including 3*. Compared to the WKV resale purchase for $20k without all of that stuff isn't this a better deal?

Also, isn't it irrelevant whether or not the resort I purchase is V or M? If I have all of the same benefits either way because of the upgrade and requal, is the only thing I'm giving up possibly a higher resale value since we're talking about a V resort (SBP)?

 

[Joshadelic]

Don't feel locked into buying direct just because you have the Explorer package...

Then what exactly do I do with the explorer package? Any suggestions? I have no desire to stay at SVV or SBP for a week...or even 4 nights. I bought it only for the purpose of getting 75k extra SP's when I finally did a developer purchase.

 

[Joshadelic]

I agree 100% with Denise on this! (We are a mutual admiration society, of course...).

When I started investigating timeshares, I rented one for a couple of nights in Palm Springs and visited all the majors in the area to get an idea of what they each had to offer. I toured all of the Marriotts, Westin, Club Intrawest, etc. Then I rented (from TUG!) a week at a Marriott on the east coast to experience a full week. And, only after that experience did I decide to buy a test week - which in my case was an EOY Westin Mission Hills (resale). I had such a great time there I bought a Westin Kierland resale while I was at WMH. All of this took 6-9 months, if I recall correctly. And, what I ended up with was *NOT* my initial plan.

Take your time. The deals will be around next year. And, buying a cheap SBP week like the ones you found may be a great way to test the system for a small investment.

I'm exactly at the point where you were after you stayed at the Marriott for a week and before you bought your EOY WMH. So if I continue in the same direction you did, I will have 2 nice properties before next summer. Did you buy the WKV from the developer? You mentioned you bought it while you were at WMH.

 

[Joshadelic]

The 200,000 SP's I could get - I'm estimating will get me about $15k worth of hotel rooms when my wife and I travel to Europe in a couple of years. If you take that into account and subtract that from my net purchase of $17.5k, isn't this whole deal only costing me $2500?

I guess I'm not seeing how this is a bad deal. However, since the overwhelming majority of you say it is, then it probably is.

 

[tomandrobin]

You can buy a platinum WMH resale for about $9k-$11k and rqualify with a SBP purchase.

There are a ton of different options

 

[Ken555]

You're paying about $500 more per year in MFs compared to a single Kierland week, so your "purchase savings" is about 6 years of MF (not counting your package discount). So on the 7th year you would be saving money by buying Kierland.

The resale value is also important to consider. You discount it in your comments, but I think it's an issue to consider. Kierland will retain most, if not all, of your purchase at today's prices (my opinion) - even in a few years. SBP upgrade/requal will still only be worth the $1000 or so you pay, so you'll be taking a $15k hit immediately. With Kierland, if your financial situation changes, you can almost always get out for your investment amount.

I think Kierland is the prudent purchase - and that's why I bought there!

My "risky" purchases were at WMH and SVR. I've gotten great trades out of WMH via II (even though I get StarOptions for that week...long story...) so have no intention of selling it. And, I bought SVR on a whim to see if I can get into SVN next year or the year after, given what's going on at that resort.

 

[Ken555]

Then what exactly do I do with the explorer package? Any suggestions? I have no desire to stay at SVV or SBP for a week...or even 4 nights. I bought it only for the purpose of getting 75k extra SP's when I finally did a developer purchase.

Well... I wouldn't make this the deciding factor in a purchase. It doesn't make sense to me to spend 000's more with Starwood just because you bought this.

 

[Joshadelic]

Ok, so you guys are saying that SBP isn't the best location for me to do this, right? See - this is the feedback I was hoping for!

What if I replaced the SBP with Kierland or WMH? Would it make more sense to do it that way? Believe me, I will NEVER stay at SBP. The only reason I even considered buying there is the low upfront cost and low MF. If you guys think that will be a mistake in the long run, then I'm glad to know now.

What properties should I be looking at? HRA? WKV, WMH? Give me some ideas here and I'll try to come up with a better option. I have to use the explorer package though. I'm not going to throw away $1700 and 75,000 SP's. I'll figure out some way to make it work.

Hopefully I'll come up with a plan that will get nods from at least 1/2 of you. If that happens, I'll know I'm headed in the right direction!

 

[Ken555]

I'm exactly at the point where you were after you stayed at the Marriott for a week and before you bought your EOY WMH. So if I continue in the same direction you did, I will have 2 nice properties before next summer. Did you buy the WKV from the developer? You mentioned you bought it while you were at WMH.

I bought Kierland resale - I haven't bought *any* timeshare from any developer. In fact, I got a perverse sense of joy negotiating and purchasing a resale week while staying at WMH.

 

[Ken555]

The 200,000 SP's I could get - I'm estimating will get me about $15k worth of hotel rooms when my wife and I travel to Europe in a couple of years. If you take that into account and subtract that from my net purchase of $17.5k, isn't this whole deal only costing me $2500?

I guess I'm not seeing how this is a bad deal. However, since the overwhelming majority of you say it is, then it probably is.

This valuation of $15k for hotel rooms in Europe is, in my opinion, only true if you were going to spend that amount on rooms anyway. If so, then yes - buy direct from Starwood and get the benefits of SVN membership for only $2500. If you weren't going to spend that amount on hotels, then this is an unfair comparison and you'll only be fooling yourself. Sorry... just my opinion.

This gets into the valuation of starpoints - and there a lot of threads on that topic.

 

[pointsjunkie]

i understand why you want to get to 3*, that was my first goal. the property at wkv is much more valuable than the sbp. only go with platinum weeks though.

i am a non-smoker and when i went to sbp the units wreaked of smoke. i don't know if they still allow smoking in the units but it is in tobacco country and the rules are definitely different down there. for that reason alone i would never purchase there.

your rational is definitely on the right track. buying cheap and then upgrading work. this is ultimately your decision. good luck.

 

[Ken555]

What if I replaced the SBP with Kierland or WMH? Would it make more sense to do it that way? Believe me, I will NEVER stay at SBP. The only reason I even considered buying there is the low upfront cost and low MF. If you guys think that will be a mistake in the long run, then I'm glad to know now.

I believe most of us recognize that Kierland is the best resale purchase option as it's a mandatory resort. But, they're not selling there direct any longer (or not many units, check the FAQ above...I really don't keep up with that).

What properties should I be looking at? HRA? WKV, WMH? Give me some ideas here and I'll try to come up with a better option. I have to use the explorer package though. I'm not going to throw away $1700 and 75,000 SP's. I'll figure out some way to make it work.

I think the Explorer Package is going to be your achilles heel with this purchase. Most people don't find TUG until they've purchased a timeshare direct and "lost" significant amounts. Worst case for you is losing the $1700 for the package (not counting whatever hotel use you can get out of it) - which in the long run is not bad at all, IMO. Please consider this carefully - and try not to let this decide how you'll buy.

 

[DavidnRobin]

There are essentialy 3 objectives in requaling:
1) Gain access to SVN
2) Ability to convert SOs to SPs
3) Getting higher in the SVO Elite levels

for #1 - with a M resort - you already have access to SVN - so it is only an advantage for a V resort

for #2 - this has been discussed ad naseum. Requaling a V and M resort will let you do this - whether it is a good value or not depend on who you talk to. Generally, the premium paid is not of great value here, but many make do with what they have been dealt. A resort with a high SO-SP conversion has better value here. E.g. - our WSJ is only worth 22K SPs upon conversion - seriously... while others offer much more.

for #3 - this has been discussed - if one has the vacation time (and funds) then 5*/PFL can be great. There are a lot of PFLs out there.

These are only 3 aspects of requaling. Other considerations are cost (price and MFs), the value obtained (resort location, ability to rent, exchange value, SP incentives when buying from SVO, and resale value).

There is no exact equation for these things since much depends on your vacation needs, and the ability to pay for vacations.

The 75K SPs have a value of about 1.0 to 2.0 cents per SP. Yes, you can get more from them - and with more effort spent - more value can be attained. At the same time - it cost money to travel. Even if you put a the value at 2c/SP - then the 75K SPs are worth $1500. Therefore, you ned to ask yourself - is it worth it to use the ExpPkg? Are you going to spend more than it's worth. In a way - buying an ExpPkg from SVO is no different than buying a TS from SVO - make the most out of it - but at least it didn't cost you 10s of thousands of $

So... like TSing has value versus standard vacationing - one still needs money to get value. If you can't afford the cost of flights - then owning a HI TS has less value. TUG can save you tens of thousands of dollars in buying/using TSs, but it also cost to play. If you lose the ability to play - then the TS becomes a very bad investment. E.g. those who buy WPORV from SVO and then have to turn around and sell {ouch!} - all those SPs incentives while nice and can help offset the cost, but the money lost is hugh in comparison.

ramble mode off...

 

[Joshadelic]

This valuation of $15k for hotel rooms in Europe is, in my opinion, only true if you were going to spend that amount on rooms anyway.

What if it allowed my wife and I (and maybe the kids) to take a vacation we normally wouldn't have been able to take and provided us with a lifetime of happy memories to share together and with our family? That's something I can't put a pricetag on.

 

[DeniseM]

Barbra - Would you still say the same thing if the purchase(s) were going to be financed? Because they are...

i understand why you want to get to 3*, that was my first goal. the property at wkv is much more valuable than the sbp. only go with platinum weeks though.

i am a non-smoker and when i went to sbp the units wreaked of smoke. i don't know if they still allow smoking in the units but it is in tobacco country and the rules are definitely different down there. for that reason alone i would never purchase there.

your rational is definitely on the right track. buying cheap and then upgrading work. this is ultimately your decision. good luck.

 

[DeniseM]

What if it allowed my wife and I (and maybe the kids) to take a vacation we normally wouldn't have been able to take and provided us with a lifetime of happy memories to share together and with our family? That's something I can't put a pricetag on.

If you buy resale and apply the money you save to your trip, you can have your dream trip without going into debt to buy from the developer....