Proposed internal exchange program and restrictions on resale weeks

[PerryM]

Perry,
You are alive. Great to hear from you!!
Where in the world have you been?
What have have you been up to?


Terry

Illness in the family has consumed much of my time, but things have turned for the better and after a week in Tahoe I feel rested up. Sadly the blue skies and blue water of Tahoe were shrouded in smoke from California burning to the ground - hey, at least the porcupine owl (or whatever) had a nesting site for a few years....before the forest floor caught fire and burned everything to the ground.

I noticed that the Nevada side had thousands of piles of forest floor material piled up for removal wherever we hiked - glad someone has some sense out there in Nevada.

 

[thinze3]

I am sorry about the illness but am happy things have turned for the better. I hope to be reading some, long-winded, interesting posts from you again real soon.

Terry

 

[leskiw]

Internal Exchanges
My latest information indicates that the new system will be implemented by January 1, 2009.

* * * * *

Restrictions on Resale Weeks

Note: See my January 1, 2009 post in this thread for an update - suggesting that resale weeks not grandfathered might be restricted to making reservations only six months on advance.

Any new news on restrictions on resale weeks? Does anyone know of any other likely/probable restrictions?

If the information is true (and based on what I have read in this forum and from 2nd hand information from Marriott sales reps) it does look probable, we are only 5 months for the implementation of this new system.

Dave

 

[Dave M]

I have no new authoritative info. Based on comments by salespeople (as reported in this forum recently), it appears Marriott is still going ahead with development of this plan. I have no idea (and sales people apparently don't either) as to the effective date.

 

[Darlene]

We bought our resale week from Marriott, and can either use, rent, or get every year points. What will Marriott do with owners like us?

 

[m61376]

We bought our resale week from Marriott, and can either use, rent, or get every year points. What will Marriott do with owners like us?

In any case, you are considered to have purchased from the developer, so would not be considered a resale purchaser.

 

[winger]

In any case, you are considered to have purchased from the developer, so would not be considered a resale purchaser.

yes, dont worry darlene. you wont lose the change to get your mrps !

 

[kevinz4444]

A few thoughts on this matter...

OOPS! Please read other post! Sorry, a little too quick on the clicker!

 

[kevinz4444]

A few thoughts on this matter...

About a year ago, a Marriott sales agent (Stan Lewis) who some of you may know, and a great guy, told my wife and I about Marriott soon taking over internal exchanges.

When I asked other Marriott people about this -- though they were not executive level decision-makers -- their response was that Marriott has something like 200,000+ owners and such a system would be very complicated to implement.

I think a few key points among the thread of responses is (1) how Marriott could have a biased system that favors those who buy directly from Marriott, (2) how could Marriott develop a software system to manage the transfers (or as Dave indicates, they may contract to use II's software), (3) given all the possible scenarios of deposits/reserves/exchange within/exchange outside/changes/etc. there will be many scenarios that would make this type of system very difficult to manage, and (4) owners may be inclined to file suit if the program in any way affects the equal-maintenance-fee paying owner's abilities to reserve and use their week.

While this sounded like a great idea when Stan mentioned it to us, with the promise of lower fees to trade internally, I have a feeling this may be just a convenient rumor and possible selling tool -- If Marriott encourages people to either buy resale now to be grandfathered in, OR buy from Marriott to take advantage of the greater priority they will have when the "new system" takes hold -- either way, Marriott increases buying of their timeshares! JUST MY OPINION!

 

[PerryM]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

About a year ago, a Marriott sales agent (Stan Lewis) who some of you may know, and a great guy, told my wife and I about Marriott soon taking over internal exchanges.

When I asked other Marriott people about this -- though they were not executive level decision-makers -- their response was that Marriott has something like 200,000+ owners and such a system would be very complicated to implement.

I think a few key points among the thread of responses is (1) how Marriott could have a biased system that favors those who buy directly from Marriott, (2) how could Marriott develop a software system to manage the transfers (or as Dave indicates, they may contract to use II's software), (3) given all the possible scenarios of deposits/reserves/exchange within/exchange outside/changes/etc. there will be many scenarios that would make this type of system very difficult to manage, and (4) owners may be inclined to file suit if the program in any way affects the equal-maintenance-fee paying owner's abilities to reserve and use their week.

While this sounded like a great idea when Stan mentioned it to us, with the promise of lower fees to trade internally, I have a feeling this may be just a convenient rumor and possible selling tool -- If Marriott encourages people to either buy resale now to be grandfathered in, OR buy from Marriott to take advantage of the greater priority they will have when the "new system" takes hold -- either way, Marriott increases buying of their timeshares! JUST MY OPINION!

Resales – the mosquito bite of developer sales…

I see no reason why Marriott would pay big bucks to scratch a mosquito bite – resales.

Check this video out to see what “those in the know” do for a mosquito bite – make a mountain out of a molehill.

An internal Marriott exchange system isn’t needed – where are the outraged Marriott owners paying for full page ads in the Wall Street Journal? No one really cares.

Only Marriott salesreps with way too much time on their hands spread these rumors – an excuse why they didn’t make their quota this month – those damn resales.

Resales amount to just 7% of the total number of timeshares sold in a year – why not just ignore the problem and it will just fade away.

All Marriott has to do is to instruct II to change the "Marriott Only Window" from 24 days to 365 days and they have a totally internal exchange system - total cost is 25 cents to make the phone call and it would be immediate.

In the event that Marriott does decide that this is a great way to control those evil resellers they WILL grandfather every owner into the new scheme on the day it is released – I’ll bet $25 to my favorite charity (in TUG's name) if they do not, on that fateful day, incorporate EVERY Marriott owner on record that day.

 

[GregT]

Perry raises an interesting point about how Marriott could do this quickly and easily.

However, isn't in Marriott's interests to permit some non-Marriott owners into their properties? They benefit from high occupancy -- more people to spend money at their property versus an empty room, and they benefit presumably from some portion of the exchange fee.

I would think 24 days is frankly a very well thought out timeline to give ample opportunity to ANY Marriott owner to stay in the system, while still making sure they have a visitor at their prized properties. And some of those non-Marriott visitors may actually buy on their exchange???

Am I looking at this correctly?

 

[jhm40cu]

I agree with those of you who think Hilton or Hyatt is better than Marriott for resales.

I think it's about time I should look for HGVC on eBay. I think Hilton T/S is the simply the best system out there and treats resale owners fairly. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[BocaBum99]

I agree with those of you who think Hilton or Hyatt is better than Marriott for resales.

I think it's about time I should look for HGVC on eBay. I think Hilton T/S is the simply the best system out there and treats resale owners fairly. Correct me if I am wrong.

HGVC is a good system. But, HGVC is NOT the best since it is so limited in the number of locations you can travel within the system. It doesn't trade with II. And, you have to pay $49 for an internal exchange.

 

[skidoc]

I asked my salesperson at the Oceana Palms presentation yesterday about the 6-month window change for resale buyers; she basically said that she would not lower herself to the level of some other salespersons to comment on what was an obvious rumor with no official foundation.

I respected that!

 

[Dean]

I agree with those of you who think Hilton or Hyatt is better than Marriott for resales.

I think it's about time I should look for HGVC on eBay. I think Hilton T/S is the simply the best system out there and treats resale owners fairly. Correct me if I am wrong.

IMO it depends on how you'll use it. HGVC is a good system if you'll use the Hilton resort. Hyatt is somewhat of a hybrid in that it's a fixed system with points on the back end more than more other points system. And like Westin, there are more time limitations on using the points than are present for Wyndham, Bluegreen and some of the other points systems. Westin does trade with II and does have an internal trading preference for it's members. While Marriott is a fixed week system, it has fabulous resorts overall in great places. The internal trading preference is huge, IMO, and the only current difference for a resale owner is the points issue, one that is close to a non issue for most people IMO. The only other issue, as is true for many other systems, is that Marriott has ROFR which tends to limit the fire sale deals, isn't HGVC pretty active in ROFR as well? We can argue the merits of ROFR another day.

What's best for you may not be the same as what's best for me. I love a good points system owning Bluegreen, DVC and an individual resort that works on points. I also love my Marriott time owning resorts I'll use and resorts to trade and take advantage of the internal trading. If things change, it may be for better or worse for me and what's better for me may be worse for the next person.

 

[James1975NY]

Marriott on the resale market

Doesn't make sense to me that Marriott would change the reservation rules for someone that purchased through the resale market. Although it would appear that this change would be illegal and against the condo docs, you would be surprised to see how vague these documents are and how they can simply state "reservation rules can be changed or modified at anytime". I don't know that this verbiage is in there but I have seen it with other developers. Usually, this rule is in place because the developer wants to be able to make the program easier to use for its owners when a program is new such as the Starwood Vacation Network where there have been a number of changes over the past 8 years.

Ultimately, the owners that bought from Marriott would have somewhat of an easier time making their own reservations; however, I understand that Marriott is more focused on managing their own internal exchange system. Currently managed by II, Marriott is not getting a dime for this service.

In an effort to maximize revenue, I think that it is smart for Marriott to handle the process internally and keep the exchange fee that is currently going to Interval International. Why not? Marriott charges its owners for everything else they use.

The bottom line is that regardless of what you are reading, the big developers are taking hits and are laying people off left and right due to lack of sales internally. A friend of mine has purchase 4 weeks on resale within the Marriott family and all of them passed throught he ROFR....this tells me that Marriott is not confident that they are able to sell. Granted, these weeks were purchased at a resort that is not sold out but the price was so ridiculous I could not believe they passed.

 

[PerryM]

Marriott listen up...

Upper management at MVCI must ask itself “What business are we in?”, once in a while.

I’m guessing the answer is “Sell timeshares”; anything else is a distraction.

If upper management starts to think “Internal exchange systems” then they are focusing on the wrong target and need to be replaced by folks who want to just sell, sell, sell timeshares.

But, I once worked for Anheuser-Busch in St. Louis and the wife of Augie Busch went on a cruise ship vacation with the sales force once and convinced Augie to buy the cruise line – it was a total disaster. AB also pressured their beer distributors into getting into the wine cooler business too – another total disaster.

It’s really up to the upper management at MVCI what business they want to get into next – why not landscaping – all the Marriott’s need it and I’d bet they could capture the landscaping business overnight if they set their mind to it.

So, MVCI just exactly what business butters your bread?

 

[BocaBum99]

I agree with Perry. MVCI is in the business of selling timeshares. Anything they do with the product is to enhance resort sales.

My guess is that all this talk of internal exchange and points systems overseas is nothing but a product enhancement strategy to make the Marriott Vacation Club more competitive with the other hotel chains that have point systems that Marriott currently does not have. The goal is not to destroy resales. It is to enhance resort sales. Any suggestion otherwise is just phanton conspiracy theories that probably have no bearing in reality.

 

[Dean]

Doesn't make sense to me that Marriott would change the reservation rules for someone that purchased through the resale market. Although it would appear that this change would be illegal and against the condo docs, you would be surprised to see how vague these documents are and how they can simply state "reservation rules can be changed or modified at anytime". I don't know that this verbiage is in there but I have seen it with other developers. Usually, this rule is in place because the developer wants to be able to make the program easier to use for its owners when a program is new such as the Starwood Vacation Network where there have been a number of changes over the past 8 years.

Ultimately, the owners that bought from Marriott would have somewhat of an easier time making their own reservations; however, I understand that Marriott is more focused on managing their own internal exchange system. Currently managed by II, Marriott is not getting a dime for this service.

In an effort to maximize revenue, I think that it is smart for Marriott to handle the process internally and keep the exchange fee that is currently going to Interval International. Why not? Marriott charges its owners for everything else they use.

The bottom line is that regardless of what you are reading, the big developers are taking hits and are laying people off left and right due to lack of sales internally. A friend of mine has purchase 4 weeks on resale within the Marriott family and all of them passed throught he ROFR....this tells me that Marriott is not confident that they are able to sell. Granted, these weeks were purchased at a resort that is not sold out but the price was so ridiculous I could not believe they passed.

As to whether MVCI can change the rules mid stream, they can and have. The legal paperwork says they can change it unilaterally without any input. But what they can't legally do in the states I'm aware of the legalities is make the regular reservation system different for the resale owner as the retail owner but they could do the reverse, enhance certain owners such as with points. And they can set up tiered reservations hence the 13 month reservations discussed her on TUG.

And I'd agree with Perry and Jim in that they won't make such a change without a reason based on dollars. That reason could be to secure more sales or to improve their profit margin in other areas like resort management. If they converted to a points system they could certainly have the option of tying it to additional sales.

 

[Starbucks]

So i just came back from the owner meeting at Son Antem in Spain. Sales Rep told me that the whole sales team will have an important meeting tomorrow (Tue, 21.October 2008) in regards to a worldwide roll-out of a new point based exchange system. He mentioned that i should make an appointment on wednesday so that he can give me the updates of the meeting. No clue if we finally see some official facts or if this is just another sales tactic...

 

[JonP]

So i just came back from the owner meeting at Son Antem in Spain. Sales Rep told me that the whole sales team will have an important meeting tomorrow (Tue, 21.October 2008) in regards to a worldwide roll-out of a new point based exchange system. He mentioned that i should make an appointment on wednesday so that he can give me the updates of the meeting. No clue if we finally see some official facts or if this is just another sales tactic...

I don't think it's a sales tactic.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78307

 

[davidvel]

So i just came back from the owner meeting at Son Antem in Spain. Sales Rep told me that the whole sales team will have an important meeting tomorrow (Tue, 21.October 2008) in regards to a worldwide roll-out of a new point based exchange system. He mentioned that i should make an appointment on wednesday so that he can give me the updates of the meeting. No clue if we finally see some official facts or if this is just another sales tactic...

The salesman was probably referring to the new points system (read devaluation) of MRP. Woo-hoo!

Did you call him on Wednesday (today) and see what the great new points-based exchange system is?

 

[tommyjoe]

resale

I own Wyndham also, so I am well aware of the battle between owners that paid developer cost vs. those that bought resale. However, I think that reducing the benefits to an owner that bought resale hurts everyone. The owner that now wants to sell his ts will get less for it. The best thing about Marriott is the resale, but now with the reduced rofr's and now with the possibility of diminished trade options, selling your ts will be more difficult. Is this really what we wanted. Remember every resale was once a developer purchase that someone like us decided to get rid of. I hope that my Marriott TS continues to hold value.
Thomas, nc

 

[abdibile]

So was something important (besides the reward points devaluation) revealed that day?

 

[Kokonut]

My latest information indicates that the new system will be implemented by January 1, 2009.
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Grandfathering? Yes, Marriott plans to grandfather all owners, presumably as of the date the change is announced or implemented. Thus, if you buy a Marriott timeshare on the resale market now, you will - as currently planned - be exempt from the proposed restrictions on resale weeks, whatever they might be. That makes sense because it would be a public relations nightmare if Marriott implemented such a drastic change that impacted existing owners – whether resale or not.

Let's say that the new system becomes effective as of January 1, 2009. Will those waiting for Marriott to process their ownership transfers be grandfathered? Technically they are not "existing owners" because their transfers have not taken place.

Would Marriott be nice enough to include all that have submitted ownership transfers as of the effective date of the new system? Maybe there is a reason why Marriott is currently taking so long to process transfers. I'm concerned because I am hoping to make a purchase soon.