Possible Re-Sale Path to VIP Status?

[Timeshare Von]

One benefit of adding your spouse to your contract is so that they will not be considered a "guest" should they be the one using the timeshare unit w/o you. We had that harsh reality check recently when my DH wanted to take a friend to a timeshare using our UDI contract points. I was informed that for me to make a reservation and for him to use it, it would need to be in his name and since he's not on the contract, I'd have to buy a g/c for him too.

What nonsense. I still haven't taken care of doing the paperwork (they said I would need to have some sort of legal, notarized documentation to accomplish adding him to the contract . . . which btw has no balance due on it).

 

[chapjim]

You must have multiple contracts with different use years. What caught up with you appears to be booking then cancelling with the cancelled points going to further out use year than they orginally were in. Current use year points will be used by the computer prior to the cancelled ones unless you call reservations on the same day of booking and have them use the cancelled points instead of the regular use year points.

You're right -- three different use years. It is impossible to keep up with the different use years.

However, if there are cancelled and regular points that could both pay for a reservation, I'm pretty sure the cancelled points are used first. It probably doesn't matter because I have been in the situation where all I have is cancelled points.

 

[dr_adventure]

It makes a great discussion and for a few diehards it can make a few bucks while risking tens of thousands. But for the average owner / buyer paying the going rate today to be "VIP" makes no sense at all. None. You may see it differently. If so best of luck to you if you actually buy in. You'll need it. And in the end I'll bet you'll regret the choice rather than feel it was a good financial move.

I left this discussion and did a bit of math comparing the points I own (more than half are resale, the other half are developer) - I am VIP Platinum, my odd and even years are different -

I had about 850K in points in 2011 (1.2 in even years) - so how did I use them

64 nights in Wyndham properties
40 Reservations
24 separate trips

Now if I was not VIP I would have only gotten about half those nights (as almost all my points were done at 50%

My MF is about $5,000 so 64 nights results in a per night stay of $78, If I did not have VIP - the per night would be $156.

This is a mixture of Studio, 1br, 2br (some from upgrade some not) - all of this I'm going to leave out as figuring out the value is too hard.

So if I figure an average daily rate of $150 a night to stay at a Wyndham (and this is a number I'm making up). Then my VIP saved me $72 a night or $4608

Now Reservations - as you see I make a lot of them -

Since I make some online and some over the phone I'll use the average of $45.

So if I did not have VIP I would have 11 reservations - So that leaves me 29 reservations at $45 = $1305

Housekeeping is important as I do lots of 1 night stays. So for this I'll use 60 points on average since again it is too tedious to figure it out exactly - so with my points that would cover about 14 stays - leaving 10 more stays so 10X60X2.25 = $1350

So from where I sit my VIP saved me about $7260+/- a few hundred. This is above my MF - So yes VIP is expensive and even at this savings will take me 6 or 7 years to pay off the Developers side - however, I may purchase more off the secondary market - which could make my travel dollar go further - or I might do a rental or two.

So for me VIP makes sense - but for many it would not.

 

[dr_adventure]

some how the post posted twice

 

[rrlongwell]

Regardinig the cancelled points issue: No, I already ran into this the hard way. Regualar use year points go first. In your case, this would affect 2013 not 2012 since 2012 are already cancelled points.

Regarding the financial aspect and payback periods for high users or any others for that matter, each case is different and comes up with different math. The subjective dollar value is up to the indivual doing the analysis and placing a dollar amount on it. Additionally, as has been observed from time to time, the starting point of the account and when the developer points were bought comes into play. One Sales Manager observed one time that Wyndham was going to a incremental sales stratagy for selling to existing owners. An incremental sale towards the final goal (Plantium was what was being referred to) was the method being pursued. To the extent this makes since, depends on how many older developer points are already in the account and the math going to the future. Not the money already spent, since it is gone.

 

[vckempson]

Housekeeping is important as I do lots of 1 night stays. .

I thought two night stays were the absolute minumum for all reservations?

 

[Sloane S]

I thought two night stays were the absolute minumum for all reservations?

Not within the express window - you can also search for one night.

 

[rrlongwell]

I thought two night stays were the absolute minumum for all reservations?

No, I have gotten one night stays before, they will usually start this on units under 60 days. Same with three night to two night stays. Two nights have shown up as unavailable when three nights were available. The two night stay will then show up latter, you can even sometimes get a upgrade.

 

[dr_adventure]

It is also possible to book 2 days of a three day - that breaks up the three day - leaving a single day - then you can book the 1 day and cancel the two day. Just learned this trick - VERY helpful for closer in off peak booking - but I think it can be used for far out booking too....

 

[Sandi Bo]

I've seen "interesting" behavior on the cancelled points. I canceled a reservation and they showed up in use year 2012, ending 12-31-2011. I don't have any contracts expiring on that date, they are all 3-31-2012. That's where the points should I gone. I booked a new reservation in 1st quarter 2012 and then cancelled it. Now my points are back in cancelled expiring 3-31-2012 where they belong.

 

[bnoble]

I thought two night stays were the absolute minumum for all reservations?

The only way around this is if one night is "orphaned" by reservations for the same inventory around it---then that single night can be booked by itself.

 

[am1]

So it sounds like others think VIP Platinum can still be worth the purchase price. It all depends how one will vacation.

I would advise people to do their own numbers and plan for the purchase. There will be other offers will come on the next trip if you are not comfortable. I would say never finance a timeshare.

Now just think of how easy it is to sell VIP of any level to owners who have already purchased retail and have no idea about a resale market.

This is why I think VIP benefits are not going anywhere.

To me its nice not having to worry about hk and transaction costs. Otherwise I would have to plan my booking days.

 

[timeos2]

So it sounds like others think VIP Platinum can still be worth the purchase price. It all depends how one will vacation.

Worth the purchase price? I have to differ on that. Those 60 days or less reservations are regularly available to rent for $199 - $400. No purchase of any type required. No annual fees. No Developer ripoff pricing. Nothing to have to dispose of when you're finished with it. All perks available for the asking. Average cost per night - $ 50 - $75. No amount of VIP discounts / perks or any type of ownership - even resale - produce numbers and ease of use like that.

Unfortunately the reality is that owning the flexible and otherwise valuable Wyndham Points product now makes virtually no sense. Adding in the outrageous cost of VIP by Developer purchase - the ONLY way to get it today - and the resulting loss of thousands when you are ready to sell give it away makes even less sense than it did in the past.

Let those who got roped into VIP or even simple points ownership, or just RCI, supply you with virtually any resort / view/ dates you desire in the Wyndham system for pennies not only on the ownership dollar but pennies on just the annual fees! You get the use and no long term commitment. THAT'S value - no VIP required!

 

[rrlongwell]

... Those 60 days or less reservations are regularly available to rent for $199 - $400 ... Average cost per night - $ 50 - $75 ...

Not sure the price ranges are reliable. I counted 5 weeks on Tugs Market place under the Rental Section that were within this range. The vast vast majority were significantly over this. I do agree that $50 to $75 per night in the non-peak periods are possable at a number of Wynhdam Resorts if you are VIP Platinum.

 

[am1]

Worth the purchase price? I have to differ on that. Those 60 days or less reservations are regularly available to rent for $199 - $400. No purchase of any type required. No annual fees. No Developer ripoff pricing. Nothing to have to dispose of when you're finished with it. All perks available for the asking. Average cost per night - $ 50 - $75. No amount of VIP discounts / perks or any type of ownership - even resale - produce numbers and ease of use like that.

Unfortunately the reality is that owning the flexible and otherwise valuable Wyndham Points product now makes virtually no sense. Adding in the outrageous cost of VIP by Developer purchase - the ONLY way to get it today - and the resulting loss of thousands when you are ready to sell give it away makes even less sense than it did in the past.

Let those who got roped into VIP or even simple points ownership, or just RCI, supply you with virtually any resort / view/ dates you desire in the Wyndham system for pennies not only on the ownership dollar but pennies on just the annual fees! You get the use and no long term commitment. THAT'S value - no VIP required!

Yes renting can be an even better way to vacation. A lot more flexibility with no upfront cost. Ebay is a great place to look for Wyndham reservations.

 

[timeos2]

Not sure the price ranges are reliable. I counted 5 weeks on Tugs Market place under the Rental Section that were within this range. The vast vast majority were significantly over this. I do agree that $50 to $75 per night in the non-peak periods are possable at a number of Wynhdam Resorts if you are VIP Platinum.

We were happy Wyndham owners for over 15 years & found the system to be a great value, easy to use & a buy at resale prices. But then we saw even the resale value erode thanks to Wyndham's actions and realized that it wasn't going to go in the other direction anytime in the foreseeable future. So we sold before the value sank to zero. Just a lucky guess that things were on a further slide.

Since then we have stayed at more Wyndhams - in the times / resorts we wanted - by rentals. We have found that even a 2-3 day stay makes sense with rentals SO easily available & inexpensive that two days in a small hotel room costs more than a WEEK of Wyndham rental! Our average cost per night is $27.50 in 7 stays. There is no way to come close to that number VIP, owner, resale, whatever. Remember asking price advertised is not the final rental rate. Just ask - you may be shocked how low people will go simply not to lose the time entirely. And the RCI rentals are a goldmine of cheap Wyndhams & Worldmarks - units that as an owner you often can't even get!

I had been a long time supporter of Wyndham as one of the great bargains in all of timeshare. Now I still believe in Wyndham as an incredible value but not by owning - not even resale and certainly not byt the costly VIP route. Take advantage of the many rentals & enjoy incredible value and no ownership issues whatsoever. Now THAT is the greatest deal in timeshare.

Those million points users offer an incredible value to renters. Take them up on it! Don't waste your time or money trying to beat Wyndham or VIP (you'll never win) and just enjoy the fruits of those efforts from others taking the risks and paying the costs. No need for you to be obligated whatsoever anymore.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I wonder if those that are anti Wyndham VIP are also against recertifying for Sheraton Elite status??

 

[massvacationer]

owning makes sense for me

I agree that renting can makes sense for many people. But, not for folks like me.

In my family's situation, the majority of our reservations are for prime ski and summer long-weekends. I need to be able to check on-line availability at ten months and also for cancellations at 15 days (and other times). I almost never make shoulder or off-season reservations, where discounts apply. I also cancel about half of those hard-to-find reservations, due to family and work conflicts that arise. So, I need control and the ability to easily check availability and cancel to cancel easily. I don't think I would make a good renter for these reasons.

I did not pay big bucks for our deeds, own the correct number for our needs, and my maintenance fees are reasonable. And, I like the vacation budgeting that the monthly of paying monthly maint fees. I am pretty happy owner.

 

[dr_adventure]

Worth the purchase price? I have to differ on that. Those 60 days or less reservations are regularly available to rent for $199 - $400. No purchase of any type required. No annual fees. No Developer ripoff pricing. Nothing to have to dispose of when you're finished with it. All perks available for the asking. Average cost per night - $ 50 - $75. No amount of VIP discounts / perks or any type of ownership - even resale - produce numbers and ease of use like that.

So I thought I would put this to the test - I have three weeks worth of rental at Wyndham Canterbury (mostly in 1 bdroom - but about two of the weekends have been upgraded to 2 bdroom presidental) - this is for Mid January.

On RCI today those one bedrooms are renting for $1680 or about $240 a night - I got them for 150K in points - which is about $300 to me in terms of a percentage of my MF) Without VIP I would have paid $1250 as a percentage of MF.

So with VIP I saved $950 X 3 weeks = $2850
Renting on RCI would have cost me = $5040
The three weeks actually cost me $900

I also compared the trip I have to to Kona end of Dec. First part of January - which is renting on RCI for $1950 (2 bdroom) or $279 a night. I rented 4 weeks worth of space - at 115K or about $230 per week to me in MF - Without VIP I would have paid $924 in MF

So with VIP I saved $694 X 4 Weeks = $2774
Renting RCI would have cost me = $7800
The four weeks actually cost me = $920

This is not taking account any savings in terms of House Keeping or Reservations.

So I again the value of VIP seems to depend on how you travel and what you are looking for.

 

[am1]

How is your costs basis only $2/1000 points?
That is very low mfs.

 

[BocaBum99]

I think that paying Wyndham its exhorbitant fees to get to Gold or Platinum VIP is no longer a good idea. It was a good idea about 5 years ago. However, given how anti-renter Wyndham has become, it's too big of a risk of capital to do it now.

Instead, the much better idea would be to make a deal with several current Gold and Platinum VIPs who will get you the inventory you need at the price you need to make a profit and then mark it up. This gives you more coordination and trust requirements, but it eliminates capital risk. In addition, you give up some of the profit, but the business case is much more positive.

The last thing you want to do in this market is to be the high cost provider by having to amortize that upfront capital cost over your next 10 years of rentals when other owners have already worked down that capital investment and got their money out with a nice return.

 

[ronparise]

So I thought I would put this to the test - I have three weeks worth of rental at Wyndham Canterbury (mostly in 1 bdroom - but about two of the weekends have been upgraded to 2 bdroom presidental) - this is for Mid January.

On RCI today those one bedrooms are renting for $1680 or about $240 a night - I got them for 150K in points - which is about $300 to me in terms of a percentage of my MF) Without VIP I would have paid $1250 as a percentage of MF.

So with VIP I saved $950 X 3 weeks = $2850
Renting on RCI would have cost me = $5040
The three weeks actually cost me $900

I also compared the trip I have to to Kona end of Dec. First part of January - which is renting on RCI for $1950 (2 bdroom) or $279 a night. I rented 4 weeks worth of space - at 115K or about $230 per week to me in MF - Without VIP I would have paid $924 in MF

So with VIP I saved $694 X 4 Weeks = $2774
Renting RCI would have cost me = $7800
The four weeks actually cost me = $920

This is not taking account any savings in terms of House Keeping or Reservations.

So I again the value of VIP seems to depend on how you travel and what you are looking for.

no one says there is no value to Platinum VIP...There is...The question is how much value? and is worth what you have to pay for a retail purchase? (about $150000) ...Thats tough to justify

 

[Sloane S]

How is your costs basis only $2/1000 points?
That is very low mfs.

I'm guessing that must be with the 50% discount, so really about $4/K.

 

[vacationhopeful]

There could be some 3bdr PICs in there, too.

 

[timeos2]

I think that paying Wyndham its exhorbitant fees to get to Gold or Platinum VIP is no longer a good idea. It was a good idea about 5 years ago. However, given how anti-renter Wyndham has become, it's too big of a risk of capital to do it now.

Instead, the much better idea would be to make a deal with several current Gold and Platinum VIPs who will get you the inventory you need at the price you need to make a profit and then mark it up. This gives you more coordination and trust requirements, but it eliminates capital risk. In addition, you give up some of the profit, but the business case is much more positive.

The last thing you want to do in this market is to be the high cost provider by having to amortize that upfront capital cost over your next 10 years of rentals when other owners have already worked down that capital investment and got their money out with a nice return.

Boca gets it. There is a chance an existing member - VIP or not - can make use of an existing ownership to get a great deal. There is little reason to buy today but if you do it makes sense only if you buy (take for free) resale - paying Developer prices for VIP as a NEW or UPGRADE buyer simply does not make any financial sense.

For those that already are in USE IT! For those looking to take part # 1 choice is rent - #2 an inexpensive to free resale is the best ticket. Thinking like sales wants you to that VIP is a value TO BUY NOW is falling into the trap & you'll regret that forever.

Advising any new comer to even think about millions of points and/or VIP is BAD advice. Very bad. This is an advice forum after all so lets not send the wrong message to inexperienced potential Wyndham buyers.

NEVER BUY RETAIL WYNDHAM is a reliable bit of advice you'll never regret taking.