Possible Re-Sale Path to VIP Status?

[BocaBum99]

Ah. Longing for the good old days in Wyndham. Wyndham used to be the best opportunity for rentals on the market. Now, it's not even worth the time required to book and rent the units.

 

[dr_adventure]

ronparise with what you said about once vip status is achieved , all resale points added is treated as vip ,if i understand your post correctly, that is contrary to every up date i've attended in the last 3 year's ,even with purchasing a new annual contract of at least 154,000 or so , at MB 2 weeks ago i was told they would not count .this is interesting ,one time i pressed the issue of them telling me they would count i told them that if they put it in writing and i would sign ,they reneged,then so did i.have you done this? we all know how to tell when a wyndham salesperson is lying !! and even if they had put it in writing wyndham could always say that the person did not have the authority to do that.,just look at the way they keep changing things and taking away benefits .

resale do not count toward VIP - however - Resale are treated like any other points so I own about half my points resale but all my points are VIP and I get a 50% discount on all of them.

 

[ronparise]

ronparise with what you said about once vip status is achieved , all resale points added is treated as vip ,if i understand your post correctly, that is contrary to every up date i've attended in the last 3 year's ,even with purchasing a new annual contract of at least 154,000 or so , at MB 2 weeks ago i was told they would not count .this is interesting ,one time i pressed the issue of them telling me they would count i told them that if they put it in writing and i would sign ,they reneged,then so did i.have you done this? we all know how to tell when a wyndham salesperson is lying !! and even if they had put it in writing wyndham could always say that the person did not have the authority to do that.,just look at the way they keep changing things and taking away benefits .

see chapjim's post above...he bought a million qualifying points to become VIP platinum, and then added 2 million resale. All 3 million work the same ie 50% discount in the express reservations window

 

[Sandi Bo]

I think chapjim's got the right business plan .

Wondering if anyone (hint-hint...ron or jim?) has does a cost analysis of the benefits of upgrading to presidential reserve. Under the same prinicple that once you achieve presidential reserve status, all points are treated as such.

 

[ronparise]

I think chapjim's got the right business plan .

Wondering if anyone (hint-hint...ron or jim?) has does a cost analysis of the benefits of upgrading to presidential reserve. Under the same prinicple that once you achieve presidential reserve status, all points are treated as such.

Not me;
I havent even put my strategy to justify going gold on paper yet. Its all in my head (and its about to explode)

what are the benefits of presidential reserve? I understand the room is better, and you get a special presidential reserve phone number to call. and I think that there are special exchanges you can do, but dont all the one million qualifying points have to be purchased from Wyndham? or can you PIC in

and once in, what are the financial benefits...isnt it the same 50% discounts, and 15 guest certs per 1 million points or is ther more to it?

I suppose you could rent presidential reserve suites for more, so I quess the question is; can you rent them for enough more to make the purchase of a million retail points worthwhile?...I doubt it but stand ready to look at someone elses analysis to show me wrong

 

[learnalot]

I think chapjim's got the right business plan .

Wondering if anyone (hint-hint...ron or jim?) has does a cost analysis of the benefits of upgrading to presidential reserve. Under the same prinicple that once you achieve presidential reserve status, all points are treated as such.

I doubt that all the points could be treated as PR unless they were deeded as such through a process involving a developer purchase. Even if they could, I doubt it would be cost effective in most situations. The PR inventory is limited and actually only available at 8 (9 now, I think) resorts. You would of course be able to spend the points at other resorts within the points are points timeframe at 10 months, but not with any of thee benefits available for which you are paying the PR premiums. Because all inventory is either deeded or, in the case of CWA (Access), held in a trust, I am fairly certain that the 14 month ARP privileges are limited to PR inventory.

 

[ronparise]

Ah. Longing for the good old days in Wyndham. Wyndham used to be the best opportunity for rentals on the market. Now, it's not even worth the time required to book and rent the units.

I dont know the good old days...but it seems to me that there are ways to make Wyndham work for rentals today...as long as your goals are modest . I dont think renting Wyndham reservations will move me into the 1%. but a few extra bucks would be welcome

 

[BocaBum99]

see chapjim's post above...he bought a million qualifying points to become VIP platinum, and then added 2 million resale. All 3 million work the same ie 50% discount in the express reservations window

But, you don't get extra guest certificates at $99 per reservation for resale points. And, the express reservation window isn't very good anymore given the change in policy of when the cancelled reservations are released.

Show me a business case that generates $100k in income using Wyndham. It will require way too much risk in annual maintenance fees. Not worth it anymore.

Kaio's business model is better. Act as an intermediary for someone else who liquidates timeshares. Those points are free. If you get anything, it's a good deal. Only problem is that model doesn't scale either. Too much work for how much revenue you get despite the fact that it is high margin.

Anyone can make a few thousand dollars per year renting timeshares. That's a pretty low bar. What's interesting is when you can generate $100k or more in annual income with low upfront capital and low risk in annual maintenance fees.

 

[BocaBum99]

I dont know the good old days...but it seems to me that there are ways to make Wyndham work for rentals today...as long as your goals are modest . I dont think renting Wyndham reservations will move me into the 1%. but a few extra bucks would be welcome

At one time, it was so lucrative that I was making $5-10k per month simply renting points from owners and re-renting them to other owners. That is how ridiculously good it was. Very little work. Very little risk. So many people were doing it, Wyndham had no choice but to put an end to it.

 

[lprstn]

I purchased 3 resale points contracts and had them rolled up into a developer purchase which gave me VIP. I had to buy 105K points at the time. All contracts had to be original UDI (or points contracts - not converted weeks.)

 

[ronparise]

But, you don't get extra guest certificates at $99 per reservation for resale points. And, the express reservation window isn't very good anymore given the change in policy of when the cancelled reservations are released.

Show me a business case that generates $100k in income using Wyndham. It will require way too much risk in annual maintenance fees. Not worth it anymore.

Kaio's business model is better. Act as an intermediary for someone else who liquidates timeshares. Those points are free. If you get anything, it's a good deal. Only problem is that model doesn't scale either. Too much work for how much revenue you get despite the fact that it is high margin.

Anyone can make a few thousand dollars per year renting timeshares. That's a pretty low bar. What's interesting is when you can generate $100k or more in annual income with low upfront capital and low risk in annual maintenance fees.

I agree completely, which is why I say it works (or can work) if your goals are modest...I cant figure out how to scale it up either (without too much risk) Im working toward a $2000 per month goal plus a free vacation or two each year and think thats very possible...any more than that and i think I have to become a PCC, or at least adopt their business practices...not something Im comfortable doing

Is Kaio's business model buying a timeshare for a nominal amount with current years fees paid and current weeks use available. Then rent that week, and re sell the timeshare. If so...I see the risk of getting stuck with something I cant sell a little too much risk for me.

 

[antjmar]

I agree completely, which is why I say it works (or can work) if your goals are modest...I cant figure out how to scale it up either (without too much risk) Im working toward a $2000 per month goal plus a free vacation or two each year and think thats very possible...any more than that and i think I have to become a PCC, or at least adopt their business practices...not something Im comfortable doing

Is Kaio's business model buying a timeshare for a nominal amount with current years fees paid and current weeks use available. Then rent that week, and re sell the timeshare. If so...I see the risk of getting stuck with something I cant sell a little too much risk for me.

Ron,
You should be getting an e-mail from Wyndham soon saying that the offer they made you (at National Harbor) is still available! It will ask you to call the 800 number in the e-mail to discuss. Maybe you can negotiate the smaller contract to a more resonable number and get you Gold VIP that way... Doesnt hurt to ask, I imagine December is a tough month in timeshare sales!

 

[chapjim]

I think chapjim's got the right business plan .

Wondering if anyone (hint-hint...ron or jim?) has does a cost analysis of the benefits of upgrading to presidential reserve. Under the same prinicple that once you achieve presidential reserve status, all points are treated as such.

You are making quite a leap. There is no principle about VIP status that can be extended to Presidential Reserve status and I can't imagine why you would try.

Presidential Reserve and Club Wyndham Plus points are accounted for separately. The points I bought on eBay have full VIP Platinum privileges, the most valuable of which is the 50% discount for reservations made within 60 days of check-in. That's just the way it is.

I use the same pricing formula for Presidential units that I use for regular units. It's hard to compare them because I do bump prices a bit for event reservations (without trying to get greedy) and the event reservations tend to be regular units. (Bike Week at Daytona is a good example. Ocean Walk doesn't have Presidential units.) Presidential units do sell quite well and my sense of things is that I cover the difference in cost. But, I can't prove it.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Under the same prinicple that once you achieve presidential reserve status, all points are treated as such.

It may not work for Presidential Reserve. In our Members Directory it states that

"Only Regular Use Year or Cancelled Reservation Points associated with your Club Wyndham Plus Presidential Reserve contract may be used for any Presidential Reserve Exclusive Benefits."

It further states in the section about VIP points:

"Points from resale contracts do not count toward VIP status and are not eligible for VIP benefits."

So, I would conclude from this, that, if you are currently enjoying VIP benefits with your resale points mixed with your VIP points, it probably means that Wyndham hasn't figured out a way to monitor this in their system and that it's liable to be controlled and go away at any time in the future. Enjoy it while you've got it and maybe don't build a business that depends on having it.

 

[chapjim]

It may not work for Presidential Reserve. In our Members Directory it states that
It further states in the section about VIP points:

So, I would conclude from this, that, if you are currently enjoying VIP benefits with your resale points mixed with your VIP points, it probably means that Wyndham hasn't figured out a way to monitor this in their system and that it's liable to be controlled and go away at any time in the future. Enjoy it while you've got it and maybe don't build a business that depends on having it.

Clearly, the sequence of purchases makes a difference. Purchasing resale points does NOT count toward VIP status. I think everyone understands that. However, for me anyway, my resale points, having been purchased after I became VIP Platinum, are accorded the privileges of VIP Platinum status.

 

[bnoble]

True. But, I think Cheryl's point is that, at some point in the future, it is possible that Wyndham could change the rules and exclude resale purchases from VIP benefits, much the way that they currently exclude non-PR points from PR benefits.

It is certainly possible, because Wyndham can change the VIP program in any way at any time. I'm not sure how likely it is, as it would probably require a wholesale re-writing of their point-tracking IT systems.

 

[persia]

Isn't VIP an attribute of the member, not the points? And I don't think purchase order has anything to do with VIP. You become VIP when you acquire 300K developer points. You could have all sorts of resale points and it makes no difference. They all can be used as VIP pints because you are a VIP.

Wyndham is not likely to change this because, well, would you try to drive away people who have purchased a million developer points? Besides it brings in fresh fodder for the sales droids via guest certificates...

 

[timeos2]

Isn't VIP an attribute of the member, not the points? And I don't think purchase order has anything to do with VIP. You become VIP when you acquire 300K developer points. You could have all sorts of resale points and it makes no difference. They all can be used as VIP pints because you are a VIP.

Wyndham is not likely to change this because, well, would you try to drive away people who have purchased a million developer points? Besides it brings in fresh fodder for the sales droids via guest certificates...

Why? Because they can & they have have been on a mission for years to devalue resales. It WILL happen just a question of when. Any use of VIP as a basis for ownership / use is a big risk as no benefit is in anyway guaranteed.

 

[bnoble]

Wyndham is not likely to change this because, well, would you try to drive away people who have purchased a million developer points?

Would I? No.

Has Wyndham in the past? Yes.

They made *significant* changes to the VIP program---for example, to guest certificates---a couple of years ago. People were (and still are) VERY upset.

 

[kaio]

Presidential Reserve and Club Wyndham Plus points are accounted for separately.

Chapjim has it right. Presidential Reserve ownerships are labelled as "Presidential points" in the Wyndham system... even cancelled points from these contracts are labelled as "Cancelled Presidential Points" and there would be no possibility to add on re-sale Regular Club Wyndham Plus points to count towards Presidential Reserve point's benefits/priviledges... But... Presidential reserve status does transfer on the resale market (however, VIP benefits associated with developer bought Presidential Reserve contracts would not txfr).. and I am not sure about priviledges in the Registry Collection.... But the only way to add available points to an existing Presidential Reserve priviledges (Presidential Hold Units) is to purchase another PR contract.

Kaio's business model is better. Act as an intermediary for someone else who liquidates timeshares. Those points are free. If you get anything, it's a good deal. Only problem is that model doesn't scale either. Too much work for how much revenue you get despite the fact that it is high margin.

well.. not to say this is exactly my business model... but not too far off BocaBum! ... and yes.. too much work, it is barely worth it/appreciated.... my mission statement tho is based soley to help those looking to rent at an affordable price, and also to at the same time help 3rd party acquaintances liquidate. I ONLY do this to give normal people good cheap vacations... because I know the right people/companies/corporations in the industry with these resources... Obviously I will not do it forever... but since I have personally taken more than a few cheap vacations with my resources this last year, so I thought I would extend my resources to others.

Is Kaio's business model buying a timeshare for a nominal amount with current years fees paid and current weeks use available. Then rent that week, and re sell the timeshare. If so...I see the risk of getting stuck with something I cant sell a little too much risk for me.

Nope, my business plan has absolutely no risk and high profit margins for my acquaintances (but I personally, do not benefit in any way) but I do average liquidating around $4-$8k gross profit /month [over the past 8 months] consistently from rentals ). I no longer have as much personal time as I did before to offer others my resources... but glad I could help 150+ people out in the past 8 months, as this economy is hurting lots of us who need a break away.

 

[dr_adventure]

Not me;


I suppose you could rent presidential reserve suites for more, so I quess the question is; can you rent them for enough more to make the purchase of a million retail points worthwhile?...I doubt it but stand ready to look at someone elses analysis to show me wrong

I think if you have the right motivated sales person and you have some good PIC properties to bring in - you could get VIP Platinum for the price of VIP Gold. If you then added several million more points so you could triple book and do some of the other tricks using a combination of APR and 10 month window. I suspect you could for a minimum number of points rent 2 and 3 BD presidentials which would rent at a premium during the best months or events. But it would be a lot of work.

 

[chapjim]

Isn't VIP an attribute of the member, not the points? And I don't think purchase order has anything to do with VIP. You become VIP when you acquire 300K developer points. You could have all sorts of resale points and it makes no difference. They all can be used as VIP pints because you are a VIP.

Wyndham is not likely to change this because, well, would you try to drive away people who have purchased a million developer points? Besides it brings in fresh fodder for the sales droids via guest certificates...

Purchase order makes a difference in that VIP status cannot be earned simply by purchasing resale points. You are correct. One could purchase resale points, then a sufficient number of developer points to attain VIP status, then more resale points. As someone suggested, the member is VIP and points owned by that member are all treated the same.

Could Wyndham change all that and other things as well? They've done it before although why Wyndham does things that make ownership less attractive and for some of us, less profitable, is a continuing mystery.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Isn't VIP an attribute of the member, not the points? And I don't think purchase order has anything to do with VIP. You become VIP when you acquire 300K developer points. You could have all sorts of resale points and it makes no difference. They all can be used as VIP pints because you are a VIP.

Wyndham is not likely to change this because, well, would you try to drive away people who have purchased a million developer points? Besides it brings in fresh fodder for the sales droids via guest certificates...

Platinum VIP owners (recently as Oct 2008) used to have unlimited guest certificates and some Platinum owners built rental businesses while appreciating that VIP benefit. In fact the sales staff sold Platinum with a hard push of that feature (use half and rent half to defray expenses). Overnight Wyndham decided that they would not have that VIP owner account benefit anymore. Now they only get 15 guest certificates per million qualified points owned.

Wyndham could make the same kind of change regarding VIP benefits extended to resale points owned. They already have the language in the Directory. They only need to enforce it and it can happen overnight.

I would not try to drive away owners of a million developer points, but Wyndham has in the recent past shown that they don't care at all and are willing to do it with very little notice.

At the same time Wyndham reduced the number of guest certificates, they raised the price for same from $25 up to $99 ($129 if telephone reservation).

If you own VIP Platinum and add a million resale points are you getting that extra 15 guest certificates for the resale points? If not, you are already not getting full VIP benefits. The rest of the VIP advantage accorded your resale points can be removed at any time.

Wyndham cares about their shareholders and not their points owners. If I understand correctly, the Fairshare Trust VOA Board of Directors is supposed to have 3 or 4 owner members (us) on it and Wyndham has never allowed this to happen. All Trust board members are Corporate.

 

[wowlucky20]

vip status

imho, vip status is a wyndham scam in which it conveys certain benefits to one group of owners (vip) at the expense of another set of owners.

if i have 1 . m points why shouldnt i enjoy the same benefits as vip members

If whndham wants to reward retards that pay at list price let it come from wyndham, not other members pockets

total scam and would be upheld as illegal if someone sued over this

 

[rrlongwell]

imho, vip status is a wyndham scam in which it conveys certain benefits to one group of owners (vip) at the expense of another set of owners.

if i have 1 . m points why shouldnt i enjoy the same benefits as vip members

If whndham wants to reward retards that pay at list price let it come from wyndham, not other members pockets

total scam and would be upheld as illegal if someone sued over this

I have not read the lawsuit, but I have seen reference that someone has filed over this issue among probably others. I have not seen that it is a class action suit.

I guess I should sign this as a retard. Name calling is rarely a good tactic to convince people to not buy retail.

P.S. If I remember correctly, I have seen numerious reference that buying retail does not justify the upfront purchase price, if this is true, then the VIP rights do not come out of other member pockets.

P.P.S. If you have proof that VIP Benifits are a "total scam" You may want to sue or in the alternative post the proof so anyone else that wanted to would have the proof. If you have the proof, there probably would be a lot of attorneys that would take the case contingenticy fee.