POLL - Wyndham Membership Composition

[CO skier]

Bump. This was an useful, interesting poll.

Maybe for the <100 participants in the poll.

For the other 500,000+ Club Wyndham owners, it means nothing.

Which means the poll means nothing.

 

[SNA27]

Here's the text I received:

Hey there. It's been a while since I've seen the stats. Not sure they are putting that info out anymore. I know it used to be about 5% platinum (probably less than 1% PR due to inventory limitations), and around 15% gold. I would guess around 30% silver due to the fact that new owners automatically get silver with all but the minimum purchase. Resale is probably 5% of the owner base. I'll see if I can get some current info. I'm curious too.

I think he means 'member' when he writes 'owner'. 5% resale seems to be in line with 20k mentioned here.

As they say, DATA is beautiful. It has meaning to those who can interpret it.

Insiders info: P(PR)-G-S-N-R breakdown is 5(1)-15-30-45-5.
TUGBBS Poll: P(PR)-G-S-N-R breakdown is 29(9)-17-5-9-40.
Platinum and Resale only owners are overrepresented. They have the most to gain from this forum. They want to maximize the benefits of Wyndham TS.
Non-VIPs and VIP-Silver are underrepresented. I guess they may think they have the least to gain from this forum. They either regret their TS purchase or can't really maximize the meager benefits. Perhaps they do not know about TUGBBS or don't care to join it.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I validated with two different sales managers at sales updates this past weekend the following stats:

PR: 1%
VIPP: 3%
VIPG: 8%
VIPS: 42%
R: 5%

Using your breakdown: 3%(1%)-8%-42%-42%-5%=100%

 

[dgalati]

[/QUOTE]

Maybe for the <100 participants in the poll.

For the other 500,000+ Club Wyndham owners, it means nothing.

Which means the poll means nothing.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I validated with two different sales managers at sales updates this past weekend the following stats:

PR: 1%
VIPP: 3%
VIPG: 8%
VIPS: 42%
R: 5%

Using your breakdown: 3%(1%)-8%-42%-42%-5%=100%

So 95% of owners have at least some retail points?

 

[SNA27]

Giving him a razzie?

 

[Braindead]

So 95% of owners have at least some retail points?

I’d say you’re about right. In this poll it’s about the same number for resale only & resale with developer so overall it’s probably about 5% also.
That makes roughly 90% of all owners are retail purchasers only

 

[HitchHiker71]

So 95% of owners have at least some retail points?

So says Wyndham as I’ve asked several different Wyndhamites, including two executives how much resale is out there and the answer was around 20k owners. That’s out of 423k owners total, or around 5%. I question if this 5% includes owners who hold both retail and resale, but I don’t have an answer on this item just yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dgalati]

I wonder how many VIP points have been sold and have become resale points? I also would like to know how many resale points a year are sold private sale. Add another category the resale points Ovations takes back and then Wyndham sells as developer points? This could be another poll.

 

[Braindead]

I wonder how many VIP points have been sold and have become resale points? I also would like to know how many resale points a year are sold private sale. Add another category the resale points Ovations takes back and then Wyndham sells as developer points? This could be another poll.

Every resale contract over 400k had to be a VIP contract. It seems like it would be half of all points on eBay, but evidently not half or you’d think there’d be a higher percentage of VIP owners than discussed in the other thread

 

[dgalati]

Every resale contract over 400k had to be a VIP contract. It seems like it would be half of all points on eBay, but evidently not half or you’d think there’d be a higher percentage of VIP owners than discussed in the other thread

If VIP owner sells their points private party they become resale points. If a VIP owner giveS back points to Ovations they become developer points that are actually developer resale points. Can these points also be Developer VIP RESALE POINTS?

 

[Braindead]

If VIP owner sells their points private party they become resale points. If a VIP owner giveS back points to Ovations they become developer points that are actually developer resale points. Can these points also be Developer VIP RESALE POINTS?

The only points that I’d call Developer VIP resale points would be foreclosures & piggyback contracts.
We’ll never know how many points Wyndham gets from owners via Ovations & buying from owners like yourself, we’d all be making wild guesses with nothing to back it up. The only thing for sure is Wyndham does sell those points as retail purchases.

 

[dgalati]

The only points that I’d call Developer VIP resale points would be foreclosures & piggyback contracts.
We’ll never know how many points Wyndham gets from owners via Ovations & buying from owners like yourself, we’d all be making wild guesses with nothing to back it up. The only thing for sure is Wyndham does sell those points as retail purchases.

So are you saying Ovations is a way for Wyndham to sell resale points at developer pricing?

 

[Braindead]

So are you saying Ovations is a way for Wyndham to sell resale points at developer pricing?

No I think they eat them for lunch. Get real
What the heck do you think DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt or any other developer does with contracts they take back??

Thank you Wyndham for having Ovations allowing owners to Deedback their contracts instead of having owners walking away leaving the rest of us owners with a bill for the higher cost involved when an owner walks away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Wyndham for Ovations so owners have a better option than using Exit Companies

 

[HitchHiker71]

So are you saying Ovations is a way for Wyndham to sell resale points at developer pricing?

If Wyndham uses Ovations to take back a paid retail contract from an owner, it's not a resale contract by definition. If an owner hands in a paid retail contract - they are eligible for the Limited Edition Ovations program. If an owner hands in a paid resale contract that they obtained via a third party - they are not eligible for the Limited Edition Ovations program because of the resale contract status. The definition of a resale contract is an existing owner using a third party to sell their paid contract to someone else without any developer involvement - it's a third party transaction. When the deed is changed as part of the ownership transfer - and then submitted to Wyndham for processing - Wyndham labels this contract as a resale transaction.

If an owner comes to Wyndham directly, via Ovations, to relinquish either their retail or resale contract(s) directly to Wyndham - Wyndham takes back the contracts - and processes the contracts back into their unsold points pool - which is then managed by their sales and marketing division - this is the division that handles all product sales for Wyndham Destinations.

I really do not understand why you're asking this question: So are you saying Ovations is a way for Wyndham to sell resale points at developer pricing?

What is your intention here? What are you trying to really get at? Do you not want Wyndham to provide an exit strategy to owners who no longer want their timeshare who don't want to entertain third parties? Honestly, you already know the answers to the questions you're asking here, I know you do, so why ask the question repeatedly in multiple threads over time? I really don't understand the logic behind what you seem to be doing here and would appreciate an open and honest explanation, as I'm sure others would as well.

 

[dgalati]

No I think they eat them for lunch. Get real
What the heck do you think DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt or any other developer does with contracts they take back??

Thank you Wyndham for having Ovations allowing owners to Deedback their contracts instead of having owners walking away leaving the rest of us owners with a bill for the higher cost involved when an owner walks away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Wyndham for Ovations so owners have a better option than using Exit Companies

Eat them for lunch? I agree on Ovations it is very profitable to Wyndham shareholders. This helps @Fredflintstone way of traveling using dividends with the purchase of Wyndham stock.

 

[Sandi Bo]

No I think they eat them for lunch. Get real
What the heck do you think DVC, Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt or any other developer does with contracts they take back??

Thank you Wyndham for having Ovations allowing owners to Deedback their contracts instead of having owners walking away leaving the rest of us owners with a bill for the higher cost involved when an owner walks away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Wyndham for Ovations so owners have a better option than using Exit Companies

Agree, as much as it stinks, to pay all that money just to give it back - I am thankful Ovations is there.

 

[SNA27]

When a manufacturer refurbishes a returned product and resells it, it's explicitly labeled 'refurbished' because it's not a 'NEW' product.
When Ovation takes back a TS UDI, there's nothing to refurbish and it's indistinguishable from the original product. So there is no difference between NEW and USED.
From a COGS (Cost of Goods Sold) perspective, I would argue that COGS for a deed taken back by Ovations is more than their unsold deed. After all, Ovations incurs costs that must be allocated to the deeds taken back.

So, @dgalati, if your point is Wyndham is somehow no different from Exit companies and shouldn't be selling the deedbacks at full price again, it doesn't make sense.
Exit companies are like undertakers getting rid of dead corpses collecting fees for the disposal. Wyndham Ovation brings them back to full life endowed with VIP potential so as to protect its brand.
Ok, @Braindead, don't stretch my analogy and argue why 'resale' is not a dead corpse and how it still gets VIP Benefits or that I am calling Wyndham Dr. Frankenstein!
Please indulge me as I indulge in a cute/clever/stupid analogy!

 

[dgalati]

When a manufacturer refurbishes a returned product and resells it, it's explicitly labeled 'refurbished' because it's not a 'NEW' product.
When you take back a TS UDI, there's nothing to refurbish and it's indistinguishable from the original product. So there is no difference between NEW or USED.
From a COGS (Cost of Goods Sold) perspective, I would argue that COGS for a deed taken back by Ovations is more than their unsold deed. After all, Ovations incurs costs that must be allocated to the deeds taken back.

So, @dgalati, if your point is Wyndham is somehow no different from Exit companies and shouldn't be selling the deedbacks at full price again, it doesn't make sense.
Exit companies are like undertakers getting rid of dead corpses collecting fees for the disposal. Wyndham Ovation brings them back to full life endowed with VIP potential so as to protect its brand.
Ok, @Braindead, don't stretch my analogy and argue why 'resale' is not a dead corpse and how it still gets VIP Benefits or that I am calling Wyndham Dr. Frankenstein!
Please indulge me as I indulge in a cute/clever/stupid analogy!

I think you have it correct @SNA27

 

[SNA27]

I think you have it correct @SNA27

I am glad you think so. Will you now stop tilting at the Ovation Windmill, Signor Quixote?

 

[Grammarhero]

@CO skier @SNA27
As you know, I am a data-curious person. As attached, Gallup famously uses a sample of 1004 people to represent 260 million people, or 1 sample per 260k people.

I think @SNA27 ’s poll is useful and sticky-worthy. Obviously, tuggers are a self-selecting group. I find it interesting that while resale-only owners comprise 5 percent of all Wyndham owners but 42 percent on TUG.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I find it interesting that while only resale only owners comprise 5 percent of all Wyndham owners but 42 percent on TUG.

This makes perfect sense to me, given the fact that TUG openly advocates for resale only timeshare ownership. Therefore a much higher percentage of TUG members are going to prefer and own only resale timeshare contracts.

 

[cbyrne1174]

It makes perfect sense to me too. The people on this forum are mainly the type of people who do their research before buying something since the forum itself is the main way to research the product. Resale is the most economical membership type. You can end up paying less over all with VIP over many years, but it requires a LONG commitment in order to start seeing the savings, making resale the most economical and appealing to the majority of people who do their research before buying something.

 

[SNA27]

A well-chosen RANDOM sample will reflect the whole population with a great degree of accuracy. Statistics is a very interesting subject and well established Mathematical Science.

To quote a Tamil proverb: For a pot of rice, one grain is the test! That is, to see if a pot of rice is cooked, you need to test only one grain.
This proverb is really not a testament to sampling per se but it is more about inductive generalization from a sample.

 

[Eric B]

A well-chosen RANDOM sample will reflect the whole population with a great degree of accuracy. Statistics is a very interesting subject and well established Mathematical Science.

To quote a Tamil proverb: For a pot of rice, one grain is the test! That is, to see if a pot of rice is cooked, you need to test only one grain.
This proverb is really not a testament to sampling per se but it is more about inductive generalization from a sample.

As many have stated already, a sample of self-selecting respondents to an online poll on TUG, which is itself a self-selecting minor subset of the population of Wyndham owners, is likely to have quite a bit of bias in it. There may be some value to this poll, but it doesn't seem entirely random or representative of that population; I would question whether or not it is representative of TUG members as well.