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POLL - Wyndham Membership Composition

What is your VIP level and do you own resale? (Select One)

  • Resale Only

    Votes: 38 48.1%
  • Non-VIP Retail only

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Non-VIP Both Retail and Resale

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • VIP-SILVER Retail only

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • VIP-SIVER Both Retail and Resale

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • VIP-GOLD Retail only

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • VIP-GOLD Both Retail and Resale

    Votes: 8 10.1%
  • VIP-PLATINUM Retail only

    Votes: 5 6.3%
  • VIP-PLATINUM Both Retail and Resale

    Votes: 10 12.7%
  • VIP-PR RESERVE Retail only

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • VIP-PR RESERVE Retail and Resale

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • VIP-SILVER Resale Only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • VIP-GOLD Resale Only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • VIP-PLATINUM Resale only

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • VIP-PR Resale only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    79

SNA27

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Here's the text I received:

Hey there. It's been a while since I've seen the stats. Not sure they are putting that info out anymore. I know it used to be about 5% platinum (probably less than 1% PR due to inventory limitations), and around 15% gold. I would guess around 30% silver due to the fact that new owners automatically get silver with all but the minimum purchase. Resale is probably 5% of the owner base. I'll see if I can get some current info. I'm curious too.

I think he means 'member' when he writes 'owner'. 5% resale seems to be in line with 20k mentioned here.
 

schoolmarm

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Here's the text I received:

Hey there. It's been a while since I've seen the stats. Not sure they are putting that info out anymore. I know it used to be about 5% platinum (probably less than 1% PR due to inventory limitations), and around 15% gold. I would guess around 30% silver due to the fact that new owners automatically get silver with all but the minimum purchase. Resale is probably 5% of the owner base. I'll see if I can get some current info. I'm curious too.

I think he means 'member' when he writes 'owner'. 5% resale seems to be in line with 20k mentioned here.
And what would the remaining 44% be? Non-Vip? Discovery? That's nearly half of the member/owners.
I think that more of the base is resale. I've talked to plenty resale owners at the various resorts and there are a lot here.
I'm in the category of ooops I bought from Wyndham and didn't find the TUG board until too late to rescind. Then added resale twice. And I have a week ready to PIC as soon as I get another and save up for the Telesales purchase.
 

HitchHiker71

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And what would the remaining 44% be? Non-Vip? Discovery? That's nearly half of the member/owners.
I think that more of the base is resale. I've talked to plenty resale owners at the various resorts and there are a lot here.
I'm in the category of ooops I bought from Wyndham and didn't find the TUG board until too late to rescind. Then added resale twice. And I have a week ready to PIC as soon as I get another and save up for the Telesales purchase.
As I mentioned previously in this thread, I think the definition of words like "owners" vs "members" vs "contracts" matters. I suspect the 5% resale consists of resale only owners. I'm a VIPP owner that also has a large resale contract. I suspect I would only be counted as among the 5% VIPP owners, and not also as a 5% resale owner - since we can't really count owners twice. I suspect the best way to approach this when asking Wyndham is to ask about the number of retail vs resale contracts outstanding, since it is at the contract level that the resale is recorded - not at the account level. This will tell us out of the total gross number of contracts outstanding - how many of those contracts are resale contracts. Then we can attempt to determine how those contracts are spread across actual owner categories. Come to think of it - it's really not even about the number of contracts - but rather the total number of retail vs resale points outstanding. Here's the total points owned by members as of 12/31/2018 from the annual owners meeting (110,483,176,159). So out of the roughly 110.5B points that are member owned, how many of those points are owned within retail vs resale contracts?

Club Wyndham Points Owned By Members.png
 
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MoPops

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I am silver, but the only resale points I have are from a PIC. We have a minimal telesales contract plus the PIC that got us to silver. I thought about going to gold, but I am not sure we will use all the points we have now. I wasn’t sure if should click on retail only or retail plus resale. Technically I have resale points so that’s what I clicked.
 

SNA27

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I am silver, but the only resale points I have are from a PIC. We have a minimal telesales contract plus the PIC that got us to silver. I thought about going to gold, but I am not sure we will use all the points we have now. I wasn’t sure if should click on retail only or retail plus resale. Technically I have resale points so that’s what I clicked.
PIC points count towards VIP level. So, it's not 'resale' but should be treated on par with 'retail'. So, you should check 'VIP-SILVER - Retail only' if you don't have any resale.
 

MoPops

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I don’t think I can get back in and change my poll selection. My PIC was a resale TS purchase at zero cost through timeshare nation. Don’t know if that makes any difference.
 

SNA27

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As I mentioned previously in this thread, I think the definition of words like "owners" vs "members" vs "contracts" matters. I suspect the 5% resale consists of resale only owners. I'm a VIPP owner that also has a large resale contract. I suspect I would only be counted as among the 5% VIPP owners, and not also as a 5% resale owner - since we can't really count owners twice. I suspect the best way to approach this when asking Wyndham is to ask about the number of retail vs resale contracts outstanding, since it is at the contract level that the resale is recorded - not at the account level. This will tell us out of the total gross number of contracts outstanding - how many of those contracts are resale contracts. Then we can attempt to determine how those contracts are spread across actual owner categories. Come to think of it - it's really not even about the number of contracts - but rather the total number of retail vs resale points outstanding. Here's the total points owned by members as of 12/31/2018 from the annual owners meeting (110,483,176,159). So out of the roughly 110.5B points that are member owned, how many of those points are owned within retail vs resale contracts?

View attachment 16121
Yes. Counting contracts of different sizes will not produce a meaningful number. Aggregate points approach you have laid out is a good measure of Wyndham's sales efforts and retention.
But it does not help to find out Membership composition. VIP with resale is still a VIP.
 

SNA27

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I don’t think I can get back in and change my poll selection. My PIC was a resale TS purchase at zero cost through timeshare nation. Don’t know if that makes any difference.
Yes, you can change your vote. I too got my 2 PIC's (508k points worth) on eBay for $1 each which the seller never even bothered to collect! :)

1578337345409.png
 

paxsarah

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Yes. Counting contracts of different sizes will not produce a meaningful number. Aggregate points approach you have laid out is a good measure of Wyndham's sales efforts and retention.
But it does not help to find out Membership composition. VIP with resale is still a VIP.
Both would be interesting pieces of information for different reasons. If you're talking about the numbers of different types of members, I'd be curious to know the percentage of pure resale-only owners versus various levels of VIP might be walking around at the resort where I'm staying (or inhabiting the BBS or FB group where I'm opining). But it would also be interesting to know, for instance, what percentage of points are contained within Platinum accounts vs. gold vs. silver vs. non-VIP. What percentage of points floating around out there are resale vs. direct, that can be interesting, too - especially if we could find out how many resale points are contained within VIP accounts.
 

SNA27

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Both would be interesting pieces of information for different reasons. If you're talking about the numbers of different types of members, I'd be curious to know the percentage of pure resale-only owners versus various levels of VIP might be walking around at the resort where I'm staying (or inhabiting the BBS or FB group where I'm opining). But it would also be interesting to know, for instance, what percentage of points are contained within Platinum accounts vs. gold vs. silver vs. non-VIP. What percentage of points floating around out there are resale vs. direct, that can be interesting, too - especially if we could find out how many resale points are contained within VIP accounts.
I like that. Membership distribution as well as point distribution among the membership! Both would be interesting to know.

Maybe I should set up a second poll! Should I try to collect the actual points, I don't know how to do that yet! But I can set up a poll on point ranges!
I have to think this through! All input will be welcome and appreciated!

I think it would require 2-dimensional matrix poll which is not possible. Turning 2 dimensions into a single column poll would be tedious and result in too many entries! Hmm!
 
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CO skier

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I don't want to get into verbal judo again!I know I will win but it will all get expunged!
I think you missed the fact that the first post of the exchange did not get expunged from the thread.
 

MoPops

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Changed my vote. Just seems like a big spread between someone that bought minimal points through telesales and added the rest through no charge PICs, vs someone that bought all developer points, and no PICs.
Maybe that’s not the point of the survey though?
 

HitchHiker71

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Changed my vote. Just seems like a big spread between someone that bought minimal points through telesales and added the rest through no charge PICs, vs someone that bought all developer points, and no PICs.
Maybe that’s not the point of the survey though?
You do bring up what I think is an interesting point. Should we or should we not differentiate in the poll regarding PIC? Perhaps we add more categories "w/PIC" as follows:

Resale Only
Retail Only
Retail w/PIC

The same changes would need to be made for each VIP category though - and the number of choices is already getting too large - and going down this road also means we should then start adding in choices such as converted contracts from weeks to points that also have helped many long time Wyndham owners to get to VIP levels over time.
 

Jan M.

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A significant majority of Club Wyndham Owner families, VIP or resale or combination using Wyndham resorts for their personal vacations, must be at least content with their ownership. Why else would there be 421,000 Club Wyndham owners?
I too always thought that the majority of owners were at least content but after joining several Wyndham Facebook groups a few months ago I'm not so sure about that anymore. Even on the Happy Wyndham Owners Facebook group people still manage to sneak in their complaints even though they aren't supposed to post anything negative in that group. I often find myself thinking that if anyone ever starts an Unhappy Wyndham Owners group all the people posting would be blowing up Facebook. I never expected to see the number of owners who are varying degrees of unhappy about one or two things to everything! Most of them would rather complain on Facebook than call Wyndham for something they should be able to get taken care of. They complain about what they didn't or don't know when they could log in on the website and easily get the information themselves. They could spend less time complaining and fooling around on Facebook and more time looking for the reservations they claim they can never ever get. The best one this morning was from a woman complaining about everything for their stay at St. Thomas Margaritaville. Of course the Wyndham haters immediately had to chime in supporting her. Her main complaint among the many was that the studio unit SHE booked was small and didn't have an oven. A larger number of people had no sympathy for her and told her she should have paid attention to what she was booking. and not booked it if it wasn't what she wanted.

I often seriously wonder if a number of the people posting in the Facebook groups need toilet paper to come with picture instructions on how to use it. It restores my faith in humanity when I see someone asking a question that isn't in the form of a complaint or isn't because they are too lazy to look it up themselves or make a phone call.

You also mentioned renting. We are all aware that some owners rent a lot and some once in awhile but I truly thought the bulk of owners used what they have for themselves, their families and sometimes close friends too. Seeing the number of owners in the Facebook groups who are established renters, those who are attempting to rent but definitely not experienced at it and those who want to learn how to rent has been a very disillusioning shock. When other people were happy to see the megarenters gone I predicted that other people would take their place and that there would be a learning curve with the people new to renting. This is one time I would be not just thrilled to be wrong but would pay good money to be wrong. I never for a second expected what I'm seeing. two and a half years later.
 

dagger1

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[Quoted comment/reply removed by moderator]
Sorry, I don’t understand this response...
 
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HitchHiker71

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I too always thought that the majority of owners were at least content but after joining several Wyndham Facebook groups a few months ago I'm not so sure about that anymore. Even on the Happy Wyndham Owners Facebook group people still manage to sneak in their complaints even though they aren't supposed to post anything negative in that group. I often find myself thinking that if anyone ever starts an Unhappy Wyndham Owners group all the people posting would be blowing up Facebook. I never expected to see the number of owners who are varying degrees of unhappy about one or two things to everything! Most of them would rather complain on Facebook than call Wyndham for something they should be able to get taken care of. They complain about what they didn't or don't know when they could log in on the website and easily get the information themselves. They could spend less time complaining and fooling around on Facebook and more time looking for the reservations they claim they can never ever get. The best one this morning was from a woman complaining about everything for their stay at St. Thomas Margaritaville. Of course the Wyndham haters immediately had to chime in supporting her. Her main complaint among the many was that the studio unit SHE booked was small and didn't have an oven. A larger number of people had no sympathy for her and told her she should have paid attention to what she was booking. and not booked it if it wasn't what she wanted.

I often seriously wonder if a number of the people posting in the Facebook groups need toilet paper to come with picture instructions on how to use it. It restores my faith in humanity when I see someone asking a question that isn't in the form of a complaint or isn't because they are too lazy to look it up themselves or make a phone call.

You also mentioned renting. We are all aware that some owners rent a lot and some once in awhile but I truly thought the bulk of owners used what they have for themselves, their families and sometimes close friends too. Seeing the number of owners in the Facebook groups who are established renters, those who are attempting to rent but definitely not experienced at it and those who want to learn how to rent has been a very disillusioning shock. When other people were happy to see the megarenters gone I predicted that other people would take their place and that there would be a learning curve with the people new to renting. This is one time I would be not just thrilled to be wrong but would pay good money to be wrong. I never for a second expected what I'm seeing. two and a half years later.
Love the feedback as usual. I found myself thinking about putting some additional perspective around what you’ve posted. Here goes!

If we accept the general rule that most people join these groups because they are unhappy on some level to begin with - and that the majority of folks who are content simply wont go looking for an audience online to share their contentment, whereas those who are unhappy will go looking for somewhere to complain, then it’s a safe assumption that 80% of Facebook forum members and even a healthy subset of TUG forum members aren’t exactly timeshare fanboys. Long story short - we probably have a collective minority of unhappy timeshare owners who are very vocal - and a majority of timeshare owners who are basically fairly content and not saying much of anything.

If we look at the largest Wyndham timeshare FB group - it has about 25k members. The next largest is around 7.5k members. All told if we were to add up the memberships of all of the FB Wyndham groups it would probably total roughly 10% of the 422k owners out there. Perhaps a bit more or less, but my assertion here is that we can assume that the other 90% that don’t join these groups are either suffering in silence - which I think is unlikely - or that the vast majority of these folks are probably fairly content with their ownership - or at least not sufficiently unhappy to go looking for others to share their collective discontent. Misery loves company right?

I would argue that I think your initial thinking that most owners are content is probably true, but we tend to be exposed to the rather vocal discontented minority and therefore we can tend to assume that this is a fair representation of the rest of the ownership.

I oversee a customer success and support organization for my day job. Every day, I’m constantly fighting fires, managing partner and customer escalations, essentially managing unhappy customers. Based upon my daily anecdotal experiences - I would really come to believe that our partners and customer experiences leave a LOT to be desired. Yet, we consistently score a 9.x/10 on our CSAT surveys month to month.

So statistically the hard data tells us that the vast majority of our partners and customers are very happy, but every day my department constantly spends a lot of time and effort dealing with the minority who are squeaky wheels - the very vocal minority of unhappy customers. It can color your outlook if you let it for sure.

I suspect that Wyndham CSAT tells a similar story. The vast majority are pretty happy with their ownership, yet a relatively small minority are not - but this minority screams the loudest. I think we tend to interact much more with this vocal minority than the silent majority. Just my two cents though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SNA27

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@HitchHiker71, you managed to type all that on an iPhone using Tapatalk? Without spelling errors and proper grammar. Impressed. Your thumbs must be tired. I use my index finger on the iPhone and it would have taken me forever. I see my sons let it rip with their thumbs on the iPhone and I envy their digital dexterity. But they stutter text and not compose a thoughtful piece as you have done.:clap:

As to what you have written, all I have to say is 'Customer is NOT always right'. It's a silly fallacy. Right is always right and wrong is always wrong. Period.
In my experience designing IT applications, I have always found that users are never right in expressing what they want. Users usually have a myopic vision and don't know what's possible. If I had ever designed it exactly as they said, it would have been a disaster. They would not have been happy with the result.
I listened to them as a doctor would listen to a patient describing their symptoms and made my own diagnosis as to what exactly is needed to solve their problems. The end results were far superior with such an approach. :D

Very interesting off-topic digression.
 
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CO skier

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If we accept the general rule that most people join these groups because they are unhappy on some level to begin with - and that the majority of folks who are content simply wont go looking for an audience online to share their contentment, whereas those who are unhappy will go looking for somewhere to complain, then it’s a safe assumption that 80% of Facebook forum members and even a healthy subset of TUG forum members aren’t exactly timeshare fanboys. Long story short - we probably have a collective minority of unhappy timeshare owners who are very vocal - and a majority of timeshare owners who are basically fairly content and not saying much of anything.

If we look at the largest Wyndham timeshare FB group - it has about 25k members. The next largest is around 7.5k members. All told if we were to add up the memberships of all of the FB Wyndham groups it would probably total roughly 10% of the 422k owners out there. Perhaps a bit more or less, but my assertion here is that we can assume that the other 90% that don’t join these groups are either suffering in silence - which I think is unlikely - or that the vast majority of these folks are probably fairly content with their ownership - or at least not sufficiently unhappy to go looking for others to share their collective discontent. Misery loves company right?
There are probably WorldMark Facebooks groups dominated by complainers for the same reasons you cite. There is information available to WorldMark owners that supports your assessment that 80-90% of WorldMark owners (is it too much to extrapolate this to Club Wyndham owners?) are at least content, if not highly satisfied, with their ownership.
 

Attachments

ecwinch

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Moderator Note: If you are having trouble following this thread, or notice disjointed responses, then please attribute that to fact we are at the moderator equivalent of DefCon 4.
 
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No, Signor Skeleton Bobsled, I did not miss the fact that saying silly stuff like 'water is wet' doesn't violate the BBS rules.;)
@HitchHiker71, you managed to type all that on an iPhone using Tapatalk? Without spelling errors and proper grammar. Impressed. Your thumbs must be tired. I use my index finger on the iPhone and it would have taken me forever. I see my sons let it rip with their thumbs on the iPhone and I envy their digital dexterity. But they stutter text and not compose a thoughtful piece as you have done.:clap:

As to what you have written, all I have to say is 'Customer is NOT always right'. It's a silly fallacy. Right is always right and wrong is always wrong. Period.
In my experience designing IT applications, I have always found that users are never right in expressing what they want. Users usually have a myopic vision and don't know what's possible. If I had ever designed it exactly as they said, it would have been a disaster. They would not have been happy with the result.
I listened to them as a doctor would listen to a patient describing their symptoms and made my own diagnosis as to what exactly is needed to solve their problems. The end results were far superior with such an approach. :D

Very interesting off-topic digression.
Very off topic now!!!!!!!!!
 

Jan M.

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Love the feedback as usual. I found myself thinking about putting some additional perspective around what you’ve posted. Here goes!

If we accept the general rule that most people join these groups because they are unhappy on some level to begin with - and that the majority of folks who are content simply wont go looking for an audience online to share their contentment, whereas those who are unhappy will go looking for somewhere to complain, then it’s a safe assumption that 80% of Facebook forum members and even a healthy subset of TUG forum members aren’t exactly timeshare fanboys. Long story short - we probably have a collective minority of unhappy timeshare owners who are very vocal - and a majority of timeshare owners who are basically fairly content and not saying much of anything.

If we look at the largest Wyndham timeshare FB group - it has about 25k members. The next largest is around 7.5k members. All told if we were to add up the memberships of all of the FB Wyndham groups it would probably total roughly 10% of the 422k owners out there. Perhaps a bit more or less, but my assertion here is that we can assume that the other 90% that don’t join these groups are either suffering in silence - which I think is unlikely - or that the vast majority of these folks are probably fairly content with their ownership - or at least not sufficiently unhappy to go looking for others to share their collective discontent. Misery loves company right?

I would argue that I think your initial thinking that most owners are content is probably true, but we tend to be exposed to the rather vocal discontented minority and therefore we can tend to assume that this is a fair representation of the rest of the ownership.

I oversee a customer success and support organization for my day job. Every day, I’m constantly fighting fires, managing partner and customer escalations, essentially managing unhappy customers. Based upon my daily anecdotal experiences - I would really come to believe that our partners and customer experiences leave a LOT to be desired. Yet, we consistently score a 9.x/10 on our CSAT surveys month to month.

So statistically the hard data tells us that the vast majority of our partners and customers are very happy, but every day my department constantly spends a lot of time and effort dealing with the minority who are squeaky wheels - the very vocal minority of unhappy customers. It can color your outlook if you let it for sure.

I suspect that Wyndham CSAT tells a similar story. The vast majority are pretty happy with their ownership, yet a relatively small minority are not - but this minority screams the loudest. I think we tend to interact much more with this vocal minority than the silent majority. Just my two cents though.



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Thanks, I needed to hear that.! It has been very disheartening to see so many unhappy owners in the Facebook groups. From staying at the resorts where you talk to other owners and reading the threads since joining TUG I was well aware that there were unhappy owners. And that it ran the gamut from some who were temporarily a little happy over something clear up to some who it seems will carry their hate on for Wyndham to their graves. I think why it bothers me so much is their reasons for being unhappy in far too many cases.

I can't remember if you were still there in the group talking to Annie Roberts at the owners meeting when I mentioned this to her. She seemed very interested and even made sure to get it noted down. I told her that most of the complaints I'd seen and heard from owners seem to stem from their lack of knowledge about what they own or are buying, anything to do with booking and how to use the website. I suggested that Wyndham develop a hands on tutorial. Here is more about my idea now that I've given it some more thought and I hope you will forward it on to her.

The tutorial could be accessed at any sales center or by calling an 800 number from your unit or at home to get you started. I'd have Wyndham put that 800 number on a sticker, refrigerator magnet, key chain or something and every owner would it get it when they bought along with strict instructions to do the tutorial at the sales center or call at the person's earliest convenience. My idea is to use a fake account that would have the person log in as Jane or John Doe, see where to find their fake number of points under ownership, look at the different resorts, see fake availability at specific resorts, put in dates, see the number of points needed to book that reservation, look at the unit information for the different types of units at that resort and the actual steps to making the reservation including borrowing or renting points. The tutorial should have those little icons that you click on next to something that would give you an explanation. I'm a big believer in that the best way to teach most people is to let or make them do it.
 

Cyrus24

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Still off Topic!!!!
I'm off topic, you're off topic, this whole thread is off topic.

Sorry, could not resist. This is what I get for taking a few days away from the board.
Moderator Note: If you are having trouble following this thread, or notice disjointed responses, then please attribute that to fact we are at the moderator equivalent of DefCon 4.
Are you sure that you aren't really at 1 or 2. You've been on high alert for a while now.
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Grammarhero

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Bump. This was an useful, interesting poll.
 
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