Points presentation at MCV

[dbbk94404]

I've been to a sales presentation and they said legacy weeks trading for points have the same access to all resorts (now and even future ones to be built) that the new points buyers have. The sales man said "points are points" and there would be not difference. Now Tiel in the above post says that that isn't true- has anyone else heard this? If it is true then that would be a big negative for legacy owners who convert. I have to say that I think this was just a sales person spinning things a bit but wonder if others have heard this too.

tlwmkw

This is what I was told at the sales presentation (don't really know anymore on what and who to believe ) that legacy owners would have to "reload" (buy more points) if they wanted the full benefits of the new system i.e. access to the new resorts.

 

[hipslo]

We also attended a points presentation at MOW over the weekend, and most of the info I've seen discussed here was presented there.

HOWEVER, the new tidbit, which I either didn't comprehend before or which was never presented before here, is this: if you are weeks owner and you enroll, then you convert one or more weeks to points, you may redeem those points ONLY for the following: anything in the World Vacation Collection (like cruises and tours), and locations related to points deposited in the "points inventory bucket" by other weeks owners.

In other words, you will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the points inventory which came from the trust, like unsold weeks from Marco Island and Oceana Plams, and, of course, Kauai Lagoons and any other resorts yet to be built. To get access to those resorts, you have to a buy a minimal number of points (currently 1000). Then your points from any converted weeks can be redeemed for any resorts in the poiints inventory bucket.

Don't know if we just missed this nuance before, or if it was not brought up before, but this really opened our eyes. We still didn't buy any points, but now we are considering it, which we weren't before.

Did we just miss this? :zzz:

this is inconsistent with marriott's own description of the program on its website, and the legal documentation.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I've been to a sales presentation and they said legacy weeks trading for points have the same access to all resorts (now and even future ones to be built) that the new points buyers have. The sales man said "points are points" and there would be not difference. Now Tiel in the above post says that that isn't true- has anyone else heard this? If it is true then that would be a big negative for legacy owners who convert. I have to say that I think this was just a sales person spinning things a bit but wonder if others have heard this too.

tlwmkw

Maybe DaveM can comment on this for the benefit of all of us......


.

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . [*] Waiving enrollment fees: If we enroll and purchase 1000 or more points Marriott will waive $695 of the enrollment fee but not the $1300 portion attributable to those resale weeks.
. . .

I'm not sure I understand this statement. I own a resale week, and Marriott waived the enrollment fee for me because I purchased extra points.

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . HOWEVER, the new tidbit, which I either didn't comprehend before or which was never presented before here, is this: if you are weeks owner and you enroll, then you convert one or more weeks to points, you may redeem those points ONLY for the following: anything in the World Vacation Collection (like cruises and tours), and locations related to points deposited in the "points inventory bucket" by other weeks owners.

In other words, you will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the points inventory which came from the trust, like unsold weeks from Marco Island and Oceana Plams, and, of course, Kauai Lagoons and any other resorts yet to be built. To get access to those resorts, you have to a buy a minimal number of points (currently 1000). Then your points from any converted weeks can be redeemed for any resorts in the poiints inventory bucket. . . .

I'm pretty sure this information is false. If you enroll and trade your week(s) for points, you have access to any inventory in the Trust, plus any inventory traded for points by other enrolled members, plus any inventory exchanged for MRP, plus any II inventory that matches a search put in by the Club Program Manager on your behalf.

 

[DanCali]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. I own a resale week, and Marriott waived the enrollment fee for me because I purchased extra points.

I believe their policy is to waive only up to $695 if you buy the 1000 points (i.e., whatever the cost to enroll is for retail owners). If they waived the full $1995 for you then you may have gotten lucky...

 

[hotcoffee]

I believe their policy is to waive only up to $695 if you buy the 1000 points (i.e., whatever the cost to enroll is for retail owners). If they waived the full $1995 for you then you may have gotten lucky...

I paid no enrollment fee at all.

 

[DanCali]

I paid no enrollment fee at all.

My guess is that you bought very soon after the program launched and the person who processed your paperwork was not that well informed on the policy...

I was also told in a presentation that they waive only up to the retail enrollment fee if you buy points. It could be that this was changed since then, but I doubt it.

 

[hotcoffee]

My guess is that you bought very soon after the program launched and the person who processed your paperwork was not that well informed on the policy...

I was also told in a presentation that they waive only up to the retail enrollment fee if you buy points. It could be that this was changed since then, but I doubt it.

Well, if the rep made a mistake, it's too late now. The papers are all signed.

 

[MikeM132]

This salesman saying you have to buy in to see points inventory seems to conflict with everything on Marriotts site. Call my cynical, but this sounds like another sales tactic.
Now that they won't have resale buyers to pick on (like saying you'll be left out in the cold under the new system, which turned out to be false) they have to pressure the rest of us to buy some points so we can be full members, too. They already got 3 commissions from me. I guess that Lexus needs replacement.

 

[BocaBoy]

Post #16 is totally INCORRECT. It is contrary to what I have heard from all Marriott people I have talked to and also contrary to everything on the subject that has been published by Marriott. This is simply fact, but think about it. If Post #16 were true, those trust resorts would be largely empty.

 

[tlwmkw]

Sounds like we weren't alone in hearing that the tidbit in post 16 was false. Would like to hear this confirmed though. I can't talk to anymore of these Marriott people because I'm sure they'll just give more misinformation. So Dave M. If you see this please ask about the information in post 16 above that was submitted by Tiel. Perhaps your sources will be more reliable.

Hope it's just more sales spin to sell more of the new points.

tlwmkw

 

[tiel]

We want what we were told to be false! That's why we posted what we were told here, so we could get to the bottom of this. It seemed to contradict what we understood previously, but that doesn't count for much in this new program! Every time we think we've got it, some new quirk seems to pop up.

Also, we were told the 1100 pluspoints you get for buying 1000 club points assumes you have NOT yet enrolled. So, if you have already enrolled when you buy your points, you will get only 300 pluspoints for your purchase, for a total of 1100 points for enrolling and purchasing. And the closing costs for purchasing range roughly between $415 and 500(??), depending on whether you finace your purchase thru Marriott or not.

Anyway, I hope DaveM or some other knowledgable TUGger can get to the bottom of this conversion/"limited" access issue for us. It seems wrong, but...

 

[kedler]

We want what we were told to be false! That's why we posted what we were told here, so we could get to the bottom of this. It seemed to contradict what we understood previously, but that doesn't count for much in this new program! Every time we think we've got it, some new quirk seems to pop up.

Also, we were told the 1100 pluspoints you get for buying 1000 club points assumes you have NOT yet enrolled. So, if you have already enrolled when you buy your points, you will get only 300 pluspoints for your purchase, for a total of 1100 points for enrolling and purchasing. And the closing costs for purchasing range roughly between $415 and 500(??), depending on whether you finace your purchase thru Marriott or not.

Anyway, I hope DaveM or some other knowledgable TUGger can get to the bottom of this conversion/"limited" access issue for us. It seems wrong, but...

It is false. Here is the information from the Enrollment Agreement which you can get by logging on to your online Marriott account:

3. For administrative convenience, MVCEC has assigned each of the allocated weekly Use Periods in each of the Accommodations at the Resort symbolic units of use comparison ("Exchange Points") which will enable Exchange Members to reserve use of Accommodations in other MVCEC-affiliated resorts. Owner will be eligible to submit one or more of the entire use weeks associated with the Timeshare Interest with MVCEC at such time as MVCEC begins accepting submissions as determined by MVCEC, in MVCEC's sole and absolute discretion, and ending September 30.
All submissions must be in whole week increments. When Owner elects to submit a use week with MVCEC, Owner will receive a Distribution consisting of Exchange Points associated with such use week, so that Owner can use such Exchange Points to make a reservation of Accommodations at MVCEC-affiliated resorts, subject to availability. Once an Exchange Member elects to submit a use week with MVCEC, the election is final and such Exchange Member will relinquish the Exchange Member's use week for the given year (e.g., the Exchange Member can not convert the Distribution back to the submitted use week). Use of Exchange Points is subject to the terms and conditions of the Exchange Procedures. The Program is operated by MVCEC on a space available, first come, first served basis. MVCEC CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT A SPECIFIC RESERVATION REQUEST WILL BE CONFIRMED.

[emphasis supplied]

I think the first thing the sales people should have done was read all the documents!

 

[hotcoffee]

I also re-scanned all of the Public Offering documents, and I could find no distinctions regarding reserving Marriott inventory for enrolled members versus those who own only points. In a couple of places they are called "Trust Members" for points owners and "Exchange Members" for enrolled weeks owners. But, when it came to reservations, it just said "members" without making any distinction.

 

[dbbk94404]

I could be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I think, the key words are "MVCEC affilated resorts" for exchange members (enrolled only). And for trust members (bought points), there is no mention of "affilated resorts" when it comes to what you can exchange into (unless I missed it somewhere). Since MVCEC stands for Marriott Vacation Club Exchange Company and is not the the trust itself, it is possible to have a property in the trust and not be affilated. So, the $9,200 + MF question is "are all resorts going to be affilated?" Or am I thinking WAY too much into this and have too much time on my hands?

 

[wa.mama]

In other words, you will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the points inventory which came from the trust, like unsold weeks from Marco Island and Oceana Plams, and, of course, Kauai Lagoons and any other resorts yet to be built. To get access to those resorts, you have to a buy a minimal number of points (currently 1000). Then your points from any converted weeks can be redeemed for any resorts in the poiints inventory bucket.

Don't know if we just missed this nuance before, or if it was not brought up before, but this really opened our eyes. We still didn't buy any points, but now we are considering it, which we weren't before.

Did we just miss this? :zzz:

From our recent presentation, I think this info may be incorrect. Trust owners will be treating the Trust properties as their "home" resorts. They get some kind of internal preference in booking, and we "legacy" owners can use destination points to trade into the Trust properties but at a lower priority than the new owners.

 

[hotcoffee]

From our recent presentation, I think this info may be incorrect. Trust owners will be treating the Trust properties as their "home" resorts. They get some kind of internal preference in booking, and we "legacy" owners can use destination points to trade into the Trust properties but at a lower priority than the new owners.

It is difficult for me to imagine this "priority". If a points-only owner and an enrolled member using points both request a 1 BR OV Ko Olina at the same exact instant in time (and assuming they both have enough points), then maybe the priority would take effect. But what are the odds of that happening (given that presumably the reservation system is computerized)? I assume that as reservation requests are received, they are processed. Since there is a lot of Ko Olina inventory in the Trust, I would assume that both requests would be filled in the order received (unless some type of percentage rule precludes one or both of them from getting their request filled).

 

[Cindala]

The weeks will now go to those willing to PAY for them, vs. those who get lucky or get an II rep who wants to earn a commission. I believe that is why Marriott is doing it, not some evil scheme.

#1...Haven't we already PAID for our weeks? It's basically the weeks will go to those who are willing to pay more money on top of their original purchase.

#2...The II reps earn a commission for completing an exchange? This is an interesting revelation for me.

 

[dougp26364]

#1...Haven't we already PAID for our weeks? It's basically the weeks will go to those who are willing to pay more money on top of their original purchase.

#2...The II reps earn a commission for completing an exchange? This is an interesting revelation for me.

There's a lot of paranoia about how the new system will affect those that elect to remain in the old system. Like so many things in life, I think this is more irrational fear than anything based in fact. Yes there is a change and change will likely affect the way.....or the options.....available for exchange. That's life in timesharing. I remember when the word on these forums was to buy a cheap South African week and use that week to exchange into the Marriott's of the timeshare world. Times have changed and, while that still works to some degree, you certainly don't see all the posts urging owners to take that particular route to great vacations.

At this point, I see no hard evidence that the new system is going to have any drastic effect on the old system. Eventually this will certainly have some affect since a majority of the newest resorts will be in the land trust and any new builds will be 100% in the land trust. I believe the older resorts will remain primarily in the weeks exchange system, must as they've been all along.

While there will be an eventual shift in how we most efficiently obtain the exchanges we desire, I believe this will be a very slow process and nothing or real substance will be noticable to the typical owner for over 5 years. Even the legacy owners who join won't be putting 100% of those weeks into the points program. While we intend on joining, as it stands now, we'll rarely use the points option and, when we do, it will only be with our Las Vegas ownership.

If you really want to see the affect a points system has on existing timeshares, all you have to do is look at the AP programs effect on the Hawaiian and Las Vegas inventory. Most (if not all) of those resorts have been participating in the Asian Pacific points progam for a number of years. Grand Chateau in Vegas has been a member of the AP program since the begining. My bet is that, if you look for exchanges into Grand Chateau via I.I., you'll find plenty of availability throughout the year. In fact, I KNOW you will because I follow my home resorts to some small degree.

You have paid for you week. Marriott is not taking any options available to you before June 20th, 2010 away. They are simply adding an option. That option will be attractive to some for various reasons. Some will want/need the points due to changes in how they can vacation. Some will use it as a less expensive way to upgrade their ownership (buying enough points for the OF view rather than OS or island/garden view. Some, like myself, will use it for the one fee vs ala carte pricing. In the end there will be more options and new ways to maximize your ownership should your particular needs change but, I don't believe that anyone is going to lose anything they paid for with their original purchase.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning all...

This post is for Tiel and the answer to post #16... The news ain't pretty.


I just finished my phone call with advocacy department after learning this from my guru...
It works as follows.
There are 2 separate pols of "points" inventory.

Pool #1 consists of points generated from all of the "deeds" placed in the trust on 6/20/10 + points generated from 'deeds" on newly acquired properties or resorts.

Pool #2 consists of points that enrolled or non enrolled legacy owners convert to MR points, points from units that enrolled owners convert to Destination Club points and points generated from units that are in delinquencies...

on the opening day of trading (7/26) Trust owners (new points purchasers) have access to BOTH pools #1 and #2, Exchange owners (legacy owners that have enrolled and converted to points) have access to only Pool #2.

Here is where it gets tricky!!! If and ONLY if a Trust owner grabs a reservation from Pool #2, then a reservation becomes available to an Exchange owner from Pool #1. Legacy point users have to wait until Trust owners make moves before Legacy point users get access to Trust inventory...

In English, at first Legacy owners using points only have access to units turned in by other owners for DC or MR points or delinquencies. Trust owners have access to ALL inventory in POINTS (pools 1 and 2)

Tombo and Dan, you can now proceed with the "I told you so's"....

Let the games begin...

I now join the enrollees. that will play in II and will hope to recoup my fees by saving on lock offs etc. In 2012 I will unenroll and just play as before...

 

[windje2000]

good morning all...

This post is for Tiel and the answer to post #16... The news ain't pretty.


I just finished my phone call with advocacy department after learning this from my guru...
It works as follows.
There are 2 separate pols of "points" inventory.

Pool #1 consists of points generated from all of the "deeds" placed in the trust on 6/20/10 + points generated from 'deeds" on newly acquired properties or resorts.

Pool #2 consists of points that enrolled or non enrolled legacy owners convert to MR points, points from units that enrolled owners convert to Destination Club points and points generated from units that are in delinquencies...

on the opening day of trading (7/26) Trust owners (new points purchasers) have access to BOTH pools #1 and #2, Exchange owners (legacy owners that have enrolled and converted to points) have access to only Pool #2.

Here is where it gets tricky!!! If and ONLY if a Trust owner grabs a reservation from Pool #2, then a reservation becomes available to an Exchange owner from Pool #1. Legacy point users have to wait until Trust owners make moves before Legacy point users get access to Trust inventory...

In English, at first Legacy owners using points only have access to units turned in by other owners for DC or MR points or delinquencies. Trust owners have access to ALL inventory in POINTS (pools 1 and 2)

Tombo and Dan, you can now proceed with the "I told you so's"....

Let the games begin...

I now join the enrollees. that will play in II and will hope to recoup my fees by saving on lock offs etc. In 2012 I will unenroll and just play as before...

This is new news

You should start a new thread with this post.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning....

I have no idea how to start a new thread...

Perhaps Denise, DaveM or yourself can help...

This is news....

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

It gets better...

I convert my GV week to 3775 points. MVCD then rents it for an average of 4100 pts (my season avg). After getting "skimmed", which I am told is my fee for the privilege of flexibility, definite travel days and short stays. I then find out that as a "legacy" owner" my points aren't as "good" as the poor sap who paid a bunch more yesterday for the same points... !!!!

Bring it on Tombo and Dan, I eat my humble pie...You guys were correct!!!

 

[pwrshift]

...I now join the enrollees. that will play in II and will hope to recoup my fees by saving on lock offs etc. In 2012 I will unenroll and just play as before...

Can you not 'unenroll' right now? The program hasn't even started yet.

Brian