Owner Update + Westin Flex Purchase = Confused!

[cleverconcepts]

We just did our owner update at WDW and ended up purchasing Westin Flex, but we're thinking we're going to rescind after reading a lot of the latest TUG posts. We have one developer unit and 4 resold mandatory units. They said the developer unit would get us DP with MVC, but only around 2,000. The said our mandatory units would not count towards DP because they're unqualified/resold. Those mandatory units, if we made a purchase at certain amounts (I believe $10k for first and $5k for each additional), would count towards MVC DP. Since we were concerned that our ability to book Vistana resorts might be limited and getting access to 90+ MVC resorts would be nice, we decided to buy. I'm hoping someone can clarify a few things related to the merger.

1. Does anyone know for sure that mandatory resale units will NOT be able to be used for MVC DP?
2. The retroing we paid for seems more useful for any voluntary resorts. Is retroing in (or the term they used "Bring In") mandatory units pointless?
3. Is the general consensus that inventory/availability of Vistana resorts will be diluted with this MVC/Vistana purchase?
4. Compared to the 8 month reservation window that Vistana owners have on our properties, what type of reservation window will MVC owners have to book Vistana properties? Will it be less so that at least Vistana owners will still have first access?
5. If mandatory resales don't count towards DP and we're interested in using MVC more, is the most economic path to DP through Vistana or would buying DP on resale market be cheaper? IF DP resales cost $750/250 DP plus the purchase price, it seems that Vistana owners have a big advantage.
6. Is the recent uptick in resale prices and less resale inventory on Redweek and other services due to the cheaper path to DP that Vistana gets? The salespeople claimed a lot of them are picking up resales for this very reason. True?
7. We paid $20k for 50k Westin Flex with 3 retro's of mandatory units. Should we keep or rescind?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Eric B]

1. Does anyone know for sure that mandatory resale units will NOT be able to be used for MVC DP?

I don't believe anyone knows for sure because actual guidelines for the program have not been released.

2. The retroing we paid for seems more useful for any voluntary resorts. Is retroing in (or the term they used "Bring In") mandatory units pointless?

Well, it's StarOptionless in any case. It would make them applicable to elite status for whatever that's worth to you. YMMV.

3. Is the general consensus that inventory/availability of Vistana resorts will be diluted with this MVC/Vistana purchase?

My impression has been that there might be some dilution, but we'll have to wait and see. It's all speculation at this point and is being used by sales to give you the fear of mission out.

4. Compared to the 8 month reservation window that Vistana owners have on our properties, what type of reservation window will MVC owners have to book Vistana properties? Will it be less so that at least Vistana owners will still have first access?

My understanding is that it will depend on if and when an owner elects to convert their weeks to points. For some properties that may not happen to a great extent, but if someone converts their ownership to points it would be available at the normal point an MVC owner could book using their ownership.

5. If mandatory resales don't count towards DP and we're interested in using MVC more, is the most economic path to DP through Vistana or would buying DP on resale market be cheaper? IF DP resales cost $750/250 DP plus the purchase price, it seems that Vistana owners have a big advantage.

That's beyond my experience level.

6. Is the recent uptick in resale prices and less resale inventory on Redweek and other services due to the cheaper path to DP that Vistana gets? The salespeople claimed a lot of them are picking up resales for this very reason. True?

There's also a greater travel demand following the pandemic. I'm sure there's some truth to what they said, but I wouldn't say it could be the whole truth. I guess the best way to tell would be to see if their lips were moving....

7. We paid $20k for 50k Westin Flex with 3 retro's of mandatory units. Should we keep or rescind?

If it were me, I would rescind and wait and see what happens.

 

[David Yuan]

FYI, I paid 21k for 89k Westin flex this past week at Nanea (to retro in 3 mandatory units).
Will prob rescind too...thx

 

[DanCali]

We just did our owner update at WDW and ended up purchasing Westin Flex, but we're thinking we're going to rescind after reading a lot of the latest TUG posts. We have one developer unit and 4 resold mandatory units. They said the developer unit would get us DP with MVC, but only around 2,000. The said our mandatory units would not count towards DP because they're unqualified/resold. Those mandatory units, if we made a purchase at certain amounts (I believe $10k for first and $5k for each additional), would count towards MVC DP. Since we were concerned that our ability to book Vistana resorts might be limited and getting access to 90+ MVC resorts would be nice, we decided to buy. I'm hoping someone can clarify a few things related to the merger.

1. Does anyone know for sure that mandatory resale units will NOT be able to be used for MVC DP?
2. The retroing we paid for seems more useful for any voluntary resorts. Is retroing in (or the term they used "Bring In") mandatory units pointless?
3. Is the general consensus that inventory/availability of Vistana resorts will be diluted with this MVC/Vistana purchase?
4. Compared to the 8 month reservation window that Vistana owners have on our properties, what type of reservation window will MVC owners have to book Vistana properties? Will it be less so that at least Vistana owners will still have first access?
5. If mandatory resales don't count towards DP and we're interested in using MVC more, is the most economic path to DP through Vistana or would buying DP on resale market be cheaper? IF DP resales cost $750/250 DP plus the purchase price, it seems that Vistana owners have a big advantage.
6. Is the recent uptick in resale prices and less resale inventory on Redweek and other services due to the cheaper path to DP that Vistana gets? The salespeople claimed a lot of them are picking up resales for this very reason. True?
7. We paid $20k for 50k Westin Flex with 3 retro's of mandatory units. Should we keep or rescind?

Thanks for your time!

I'll add a few points beyond the prior posters:

2) Retroing mandatory units also allows you to convert them to Bonvoy points. But the consensus here is that it is one of the least cost-effective ways to use a timeshare. The Elite status you may have gotten would also likely translate to an Elite status on the MVC side, which can have some benefit.

4) Marriott owners can book at 13 months out (even in advance of home resort owners at Vistana) - however they will be able to book only inventory that has been elected to be exchanged by owners. However, because these are floating weeks, it is not clear how it would work exactly. For example, if WKORV Platinum season is weeks 1-52 float, and 52 Vistana owners elect to deposit their floating weeks in the DC, will there be 1 week available for each week of the year for MVC owners to book, or can 52 MVC owners all book 4th of July or New Year's weeks? I'd love to know the mechanics...

5) DP resale cost is $2-$3 per point and you have to pay another $3 "junk fee" to Marriott to activate them. You don't recover that fee when you sell your points, so you lose 50%+ off the bat. That fee used to be $1 in 2010 and it can be whatever they choose... The issue with DC points is the high maintenance fees associated with them. The maintenance fees are ~65c per point, which is not only high but also very close to the rental value of points. MVC weeks owners can convert weeks to points more cost effectively and are happy to rent points at 67c-69c per point, so actual point ownership is diluted once you have access to the system and can transfer points. You can get access by buying 1000 resale points (that's the minimum) and then renting what you need without any additional upfront cost. I should point out that points can only be transferred once, so points you rent cannot be banked or rented again.

6) Resale prices at popular resorts have been going up due to pandemic restrictions ending before all this Vistana rumor mill started. This is true even for some Marriott resorts.

7) That's your call - it's up to you if you can justify and afford the expense. If mandatory resale units are not allowed into the DC you won't likely get a better offer from Marriott for many years to come. Their minimum buy-in is generally $30K to enroll 1 week.

 

[carpie99]

If you already have a developer week that will get you DP points … why not just rent additional DP points when needed. That is what I am going to do.

 

[DanCali]

If you already have a developer week that will get you DP points … why not just rent additional DP points when needed. That is what I am going to do.

This is probably the optimal (least costly) thing to do.

If you have a developer week and get access to the DC sandbox, there is probably no need to retro any other resale weeks you have. You may not be able to exchange resale weeks for points, but you can always rent those weeks out and use the cash to rent points (in many cases coming out ahead with extra cash in your pocket or extra points in your account).

It's may not be as convenient as simply trading for points, but not as costly either. And you don't have to put up with skim or lowball conversion ratios (relative to rental values)

 

[cleverconcepts]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I faxed and mailed the recision letter.

 

[steve1000]

MVC weeks owners can convert weeks to points more cost effectively and are happy to rent points at 67c-69c per point, so actual point ownership is diluted once you have access to the system and can transfer points.

I am a weeks owner in MVC but have always used/rented my weeks. Can MVC weeks be converted into DVC points for just a given year's use or must any such conversion be a permanent conversion? Since I really like the weeks I own and the MFs are higher for DPs I wouldn't be interested in doing a permanent conversion.
I currently own an enrolled EOY pre-2010 MVC week worth 1850 DPs (for which 925 DPs can be elected annually). I assume that would allow me to rent DPs if I ever want to do so.

 

[capjak]

I am a weeks owner in MVC but have always used/rented my weeks. Can MVC weeks be converted into DVC points for just a given year's use or must any such conversion be a permanent conversion? Since I really like the weeks I own and the MFs are higher for DPs I wouldn't be interested in doing a permanent conversion.
I currently own an enrolled EOY pre-2010 MVC week worth 1850 DPs (for which 925 DPs can be elected annually). I assume that would allow me to rent DPs if I ever want to do so.

I think you mean Marriott Destination Points not Disney Vacation Club Points (DVC)
I own an enrolled EOY week and elect Destination Points EOY.

It is not a permanent conversion. However you would be electing points EOY at 1850, you could not elect 1/2 of your unit, it is either all points or your week, than you would have to wait until your next EOY to do something different.

 

[steve1000]

Thank you for the correction (my typo) and for your response. That makes sense. I was also wondering about the post-2010 non-enrolled MVC weeks that I own. I suppose such weeks could be converted into MDC points but that payment of a fee would be required and that the conversion would have to be permanent. In reality, given the higher MFs for MDC points and that we normally like to use those weeks I would not likely ever want to convert the weeks into MDC points anyway.

 

[VacationForever]

Thank you for the correction (my typo) and for your response. That makes sense. I was also wondering about the non-enrolled MVC weeks that I own. I suppose such weeks could be converted into MDC points but that payment of a fee would be required and that the conversion would have to be permanent. In reality, given the higher MFs for MDC points and that we normally like to use those weeks I would not likely ever want to convert the weeks into MDC points anyway.

If your non-enrolled weeks were bought before June 2010, they can be enrolled into DC for free by watching a webinar. You continue to pay the same MF for your weeks even when you elect points for the year. If you had bought the weeks after June 2010, the only way to enroll the weeks is to buy a boatload of expensive DC points from MVC. You will still pay the same MF on the weeks. DC points MF apply to the new DC points purchase.

 

[DanCali]

I currently own an enrolled EOY pre-2010 MVC week worth 1850 DPs (for which 925 DPs can be elected annually). I assume that would allow me to rent DPs if I ever want to do so.

Thank you for the correction (my typo) and for your response. That makes sense. I was also wondering about the post-2010 non-enrolled MVC weeks that I own.

You post-2010 weeks can be enrolled if you make a developer purchase. But in effect you'd be acquiring points that you probably don't need and are almost worthless on the resale market in exchange for enrolling your post-2010 into the DC exchange. There is an annual fee associated with that, but you are probably already paying the DC Club fee on the pre-2010 week so this may just increase it a bit due to Elite status.

But since you are already enrolled in the DC, you can always rent additional points from others as you need them. That's a more advantageous position to be in than someone with just post 2010-weeks.