Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

[taterhed]

You can already book 1+ night at 13 months as Presidential when using Club Points.

You don't have to elect points in order to transfer in points.

Thanks dioxide. Assuming rental points are 'MVC points' or Abound etc.. So, same rental outlets still apply.

 

[Dean]

Questions

1. What do you think it would take to enroll/requal the Marriott 3br MGV ? Worth the money/effort?

Specific to this question, around $30K roughly speaking depending on the exact program at the time but it would come either with a week that's enrolled (Aruba, St. Kitts, Spain, Costa Rica) or points directly and the added fees. Is it worth it just for this week, my opinion is a firm no. But it can be worth it in some situations though usually with a lot more volume involved.

 

[taterhed]

I won't answer all your questions, but generally would just say that you should spend the next year working with Abound first. You already have basically all the capability you need to see what availability actually emerges at that 13 and 12 month mark and can always rent in points if you need them. The system has not been up for very long, but thus far I am fairly unimpressed. My impression is that if you're willing to be online right at the time inventory is released, you can get decent availability....but within a few days it completely dries up for anything "high value". Compared to my historic experience with VSN, availability in VSN is better for "high value" resorts and weeks. No idea how things will pan out over time, but I am hesitant to invest further in purely Abound points.

If after some time you still feel Abound will work for you, I would consider picking up a couple of Platinum Lagunamar weeks and enrolling them with a direct purchase. This way you get the benefit of a week that offers a pretty good number Abound points (4950) AND 148,100 VSN points. Currently resale Lagunamar weeks are also a bargain compared to any MVC weeks with similar Abound point generation plus the MF/point ratio is great.

Thanks for the info!

 

[taterhed]

I won't answer all your questions, but generally would just say that you should spend the next year working with Abound first. You already have basically all the capability you need to see what availability actually emerges at that 13 and 12 month mark and can always rent in points if you need them. The system has not been up for very long, but thus far I am fairly unimpressed. My impression is that if you're willing to be online right at the time inventory is released, you can get decent availability....but within a few days it completely dries up for anything "high value". Compared to my historic experience with VSN, availability in VSN is better for "high value" resorts and weeks. No idea how things will pan out over time, but I am hesitant to invest further in purely Abound points.

If after some time you still feel Abound will work for you, I would consider picking up a couple of Platinum Lagunamar weeks and enrolling them with a direct purchase. This way you get the benefit of a week that offers a pretty good number Abound points (4950) AND 148,100 VSN points. Currently resale Lagunamar weeks are also a bargain compared to any MVC weeks with similar Abound point generation plus the MF/point ratio is great.

Am I reading you correctly? Purchase a resale Lagunamar and then enroll with a Westin direct purchase? Can you expound a little?
I'm currently being pitched a 1 br Nanea 51 (4530 VC points/1500 MF/81000 VSN) for about $50k

 

[DanCali]

Am I reading you correctly? Purchase a resale Lagunamar and then enroll with a Westin direct purchase? Can you expound a little?
I'm currently being pitched a 1 br Nanea 51 (4530 VC points/1500 MF/81000 VSN) for about $50k

Once you own resale weeks, then you are obviously aware there is a resale market and the salespeople know that as well. Therefore, it is much harder to sell you a developer purchase so they have come up with this concept of allowing you to enroll resale weeks in Abound if you make a developer purchase. There are different nuances to this in Marriott and separately in Vistana, but the most relevant points here are:

(i) Lagunamar has good value both in Vistana and Abound in terms of Staroptions/MF and CP/MF.
(ii) Lagunamar resale was historically priced low compared to other Vistana weeks like Kierland or Maui where Staroptions can be used with a resale purchase (cannot do what with Lagunamar).
(iii) A Vistana developer purchase will turn it from a weeks-only ownership to be enrolled both in VSN and Abound, and
(iv) In recent years, Vistana required only a $10K developer purchase to make this "requal" happen while Marriott generally required a $25K+ purchase.

So, if you are willing to spend $50K on Nanea, you can attend a Vistana developer presentation with a few resale weeks in your back pocket and see what offer you get that involves enrolling those weeks. You'll probably end up with more points and it will cost you less money, but requires patience and planning.

Alternatively, buying a Kierland or Westin Kaanapali resale 2BR Platinum (~$15K-$20K) will also give you 148,000 that you can use to trade internally in ~20 Vistana resorts (not Abound). Those would also be eligible to enroll in Abound with a Marriott or Vistana developer purchase, but would provide substantial trading opportunities even without Abound.

 

[Mroze]

Am I reading you correctly? Purchase a resale Lagunamar and then enroll with a Westin direct purchase? Can you expound a little?
I'm currently being pitched a 1 br Nanea 51 (4530 VC points/1500 MF/81000 VSN) for about $50k

We owned 3 x Lagunamar/WLR [Developer] 2BR-PLAT EOY Weeks [EACH: 148100-SO EOY].
The Maintenance Fees for WLR was the lowest and stayed that way for almost 10-Years.

• 2010-MF: $603.72 [148100-EOY]
• 2019-MF: $704.25 [148100-EOY]

Multiply x 2 for Every-Year.

The low MF was partly due to the Peso/US$ Ex-Rate.
In 2020 the MF rose to $745.28 which wasn't too bad.
In 2022 the MF rose to $826.96 which made it no longer as cheap.

Over the years we moved our ownership to 6 x 2BR-PLAT Every-Year Units at Kierland/WKV [all resale for between $10K -> $14K each]
We tried to offload the WLR weeks but realized that the resale market for WLR was very weak [offered $5K-$8K for 3-Weeks] for 2 reasons.

• It is a voluntary resort and the SO would not transfer on resale.
• It is RTU and NOT deeded [no one from Vistana can show me my deed and get the runaround that it is done via FL]

Last Aug-2022, we swapped the 3 x WLR for Westin Nanea/WNA [they gave us credit for the full purchase price [$54K].
After trading in all the WLR + a couple of small Aventuras-Packages we ended up paying ~$30K for an Every-Year 257700 [10910-DCP] at Nanea.
Simplified our portfolio from 5-Contracts to 1-Contract.

I understand this does not help with your "enrollment" question, however, hope to give you context on pricing.

 

[ocdb8r]

Am I reading you correctly? Purchase a resale Lagunamar and then enroll with a Westin direct purchase? Can you expound a little?
I'm currently being pitched a 1 br Nanea 51 (4530 VC points/1500 MF/81000 VSN) for about $50k

(iv) In recent years, Vistana required only a $10K developer purchase to make this "requal" happen while Marriott generally required a $25K+ purchase.

We haven't seen many posts on exactly what the "requalify" offers are post the Abound launch. Prior to launch Vistana sales generally permitted you to "requalify" a week if you made a direct purchase of at least $10K. Marriott sales generally had a higher threshold of $20-25k to requalify a single resale week BUT also routinely permitted you to requalify up to 3 resale weeks with a direct purchase over $30k and up to 7 weeks with a direct purchase over $50k. The idea is to purchase lower cost (high point value) resale weeks and then requalify them with a direct purchase to create an overall portfolio the size you want/need at overall total lower cost.

As to the specific Nanea offer (and strategy for the above in general), I personally would shy away from any "points" purchase (which is what Nanea is) and try to get a direct "week" ownership which Marriott sales still offers in Europe (Spain) and Carribbean (Aruba or St. Kitts) as the maintenance fee to point cost is much better (and MF are your long term cost). However, you lose out on the VSN home priority for Nanea in this case (but in my view, the premium to be paid for owning Hawaii is not worth it....but we are able to travel outside the school calendar).

 

[Mroze]

Some important principles:

Investment: Timeshares are not an investment at least not in the "Financial" sense. Maybe an investment in the sense of "Experiences" or "Quality-Time" or "Creating Memories".
Cheap/Save-Money: Using Timeshares is not necessarily cheap [neither is it the most expensive] way to vacation. Consider it a way to enjoy quality vacationing at a "Value Price".

Value: I expect a few things when I look for quality accommodations.

• Safety/Security: Physical as well as emotional safety. E.g. can I send my 10 year old to the reception at 10:00pm and not worry about whom they encounter in the elevator.
• Service: Does everything just work. E.g. Hot water, Air Conditioning, Cable-TV, Wifi-Internet, Appliances. Does someone answer the phone when I press "0" within a minute?
• Hygiene: Clean-Bed: Linens clean [no bugs]. Clean-Shower: Is the bathroom clean of scum and hair?

If I can get the above at a reasonable price [not necessarily cheap], I would consider it good "Value".

What Should I Buy?
Given the above I concluded that there are 2 x Factors. Cap-Ex [Initial purchase cost] V Op-Ex [Annual Maintenance]

• Cap-Ex: I am biased toward spending more on initial cost.
  • Peak-Season: Purchase WEEKS that are Peak-Season [Higher-Point-Accrual] as the MF are the same as Low-Season [only applies to deeded weeks].
  • Even though this can be 3 - 5 times more expensive. E.g. Cost of a 2BR in Summer in the desert is $3K V $15K for Spring. It may be worth it in the long run.
  • Amortization: It takes a while to breakeven and realize value. If you plan to purchase timeshares and own it for less than 10 years you may want to reconsider.
  • Residual-Value: Purchasing High-Value Resorts in Peak-Season is not cheap but you may recover your costs when you decide to sell.
• Op-Ex: Look for resorts with lower annual MF [e.g, NOT Hawaii] as over time these will reduce the overall cost.
  • E.g. Westin Lagunamar Platinum+ or Westin Kierland Platinum+ [Spring-Break]
• Vistana: If considering Vistana, it's worth paying more for Mandatory as they retain their value [may change with Abound].
  • Mandatory resale carries most of the benefits as Developer-Purchase including access to all resorts within the VSN-Network.
  • 148100-SO: Westin Kierland [Mandatory] costs between to $15K - $20K V Westin Lagunamar [Voluntary] between $3K - $5K
  • 148100-SO: Westin Ka'anapali [Mandatory] costs ~$30K for Resort-View may be worth it if you want to return during peak season every year. MF could be 2 x that of Kierland.
  • If you can enroll within Abound by requalifying via VSN, Lagunamar maybe the better option [cheaper to purchase] than Kierland.
    • 2BR-PLAT+ Lagunamar accrues the same SO [148100 with lower MF] as Kierland but accrues more DP [Lagunamar 4950-DP] than Kierland [4050-DP].
    • If Lagunamar can be requalified, the whole Voluntary V Mandatory comparison is irrelevant.

Strategy
As others have mentioned, its best to purchase resale and requalify with a developer purchase.

• Purchase and requalify multiple weeks [preferably High-SO/Peak-Season] as that's the best value.
• Vistana-Requalify: Vistana was offering [maybe still do] to enroll 1-Week for $10K [Flex-Purchase], followed by an additional $5K [Flex-Purchase] to enroll each additional week.
  • E.g. I enrolled 6 x Weeks [148100 x 6 = 888600] by spending $35K purchasing Aventuras-Flex. This accrues over 1M-SO every year.
  • This was useful as it got me 5-Star Elite with VSN, but was not necessary for Abound.
• Marriott-Requalify: Marriott charges upward of $30K to enroll 1 x Week and much more to enroll multiple.
  • Read that it may be worth it to requalify multiple [maybe 7 weeks] as the cost/week is lower. Still way more expensive than the VSN route.

 

[DanCali]

We haven't seen many posts on exactly what the "requalify" offers are post the Abound launch. Prior to launch Vistana sales generally permitted you to "requalify" a week if you made a direct purchase of at least $10K. Marriott sales generally had a higher threshold of $20-25k to requalify a single resale week BUT also routinely permitted you to requalify up to 3 resale weeks with a direct purchase over $30k and up to 7 weeks with a direct purchase over $50k. The idea is to purchase lower cost (high point value) resale weeks and then requalify them with a direct purchase to create an overall portfolio the size you want/need at overall total lower cost.

The traditional Vistana offer was a minimum purchase of $10K for the first week and $5K for each additional. A $25K min purchase with Vistana would allow requalification of 4 weeks.
Vistana retro offers still exist based on recent posts in the Vistana forum (see below).

My experience with MVC Spain purchase is that a $30K purchase would allow just 2 resale weeks to be enrolled (not 3) and $50K would indeed allow "up to 7" - that's as recent as 6 months ago. I do wish there was something in between with MVC for those with 3-6 resale weeks. I think it also makes more business sense for them since I might have considered a higher purchase (say $40K instead of $30K) if I could have enrolled the 4 resale weeks I owned at the time.

Requalified Post-August 9, 2022 Voluntary Week

I finally finished up the process for requalifying a voluntary week at Lagunamar through a purchase I made after August; I owned the week prior to that but it was not then in VSN. Once I returned the paperwork to Vistana it promptly showed up as StarOptions for this year rather than a week of...

tugbbs.com

 

[DRH90277]

The traditional Vistana offer was a minimum purchase of $10K for the first week and $5K for each additional. A $25K min purchase with Vistana would allow requalification of 4 weeks.
Vistana retro offers still exist based on recent posts in the Vistana forum (see below).

My experience with MVC Spain purchase is that a $30K purchase would allow just 2 resale weeks to be enrolled (not 3) and $50K would indeed allow "up to 7" - that's as recent as 6 months ago. I do wish there was something in between with MVC for those with 3-6 resale weeks. I think it also makes more business sense for them since I might have considered a higher purchase (say $40K instead of $30K) if I could have enrolled the 4 resale weeks I owned at the time.

Requalified Post-August 9, 2022 Voluntary Week

I finally finished up the process for requalifying a voluntary week at Lagunamar through a purchase I made after August; I owned the week prior to that but it was not then in VSN. Once I returned the paperwork to Vistana it promptly showed up as StarOptions for this year rather than a week of...

tugbbs.com

We did the 7 week enrollment with purchase of 5,000 points ($65k) last summer. It did clean things up and may make it easier for our kids to share as an inheritance. My reservation about what we did though is about being able to spend all these points for reservations wanted by us in our retirement or by family members. This is in part because drivable resorts from NC are few and air travel to others is expensive for multiple family members (most are 2 bdrm for 5-7 people). The suggested ease of getting into high season/high demand resorts for points is not there. And using excess points for rentals is a desperation-choice use for some of us - who really wants to be a landlord for vacation rentals?

I'll be better able to assess the full benefit of these enrollments a year from now. I'm a bit apprehensive about this right now.

 

[taterhed]

My latest is this: I'm being told that Westin cannot enroll Marriott weeks does that fit with everyone's experience?

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[Mroze]

My latest is this: I'm being told that Westin cannot enroll Marriott weeks does that fit with everyone's experience?

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Pretty sure Westin [Vistana] sales teams were unable to enroll "Marriott" weeks pre/post Abound.

• The way to enroll a "Marriott" week was via a Marriott sales team.
• The way to enroll a "Westin" week was via a Vistana sales team.
  • Is Vistana still open to enrolling "Westin" weeks with [Purchase-$10K-Flex: Enroll-1-Week] [Purchase-Additional-$5K-Flex: Enroll-Additional-Week]

 

[dioxide45]

Pretty sure Westin [Vistana] sales teams were unable to enroll "Marriott" weeks pre/post Abound.

• The way to enroll a "Marriott" week was via a Marriott sales team.
• The way to enroll a "Westin" week was via a Vistana sales team.
  • Is Vistana still open to enrolling "Westin" weeks with [Purchase-$10K-Flex: Enroll-1-Week] [Purchase-Additional-$5K-Flex: Enroll-Additional-Week]

Yes, someone just reported a retro offer in this thread.

 

[ocdb8r]

They are supposed to be a singular sales team now. While I can't speak for reps at Vistana properties being able to retro MVC weeks, I know that sales reps at MVC properties can retro Vistana and/or MVC weeks....I have no idea why they would prevent the other way around (and I'd be pretty pissed if I was a sales rep on a Vistana property).

 

[DanCali]

Pretty sure Westin [Vistana] sales teams were unable to enroll "Marriott" weeks pre/post Abound.

• The way to enroll a "Marriott" week was via a Marriott sales team.
• The way to enroll a "Westin" week was via a Vistana sales team.
  • Is Vistana still open to enrolling "Westin" weeks with [Purchase-$10K-Flex: Enroll-1-Week] [Purchase-Additional-$5K-Flex: Enroll-Additional-Week]

I am pretty sure that MVC can enroll Vistana weeks in Abound at this point, but my concern would be as to whether that week would also get enrolled into VSN if it was a voluntary week. I'd just trust that Vistana people have a better idea how that part of the process works.

 

[Venter]

I had 4 voluntary VOI's enrolled with a MVC purchase before integration roll out.

 

[Mroze]

I had 4 voluntary VOI's enrolled with a MVC purchase before integration roll out.

Assuming these were Vistana VOI's, were the terms offered by MVC [Purchase ~$25K worth DCP or Hybrid-Pkg] similar to the Vistana offer [Enroll 4-Contracts by purchasing $25K-Flex] or better?

Can someone share the terms offered by Vistana to enroll MVC-Resale units?

 

[Venter]

Unfortunately I cannot answer your question as the terms never came up. We were at Los Suenos and enjoyed it so much that we wanted to be sure we could get a week when we wanted to go. I cobbled 5 days together from frequently looking, using Marriott.com and I think asking another owner to book a day because I ran out of points. At the time I also had 2x Sheraton flex odd years, 1 x Lakeside Terrace winter even, and a yearly Westin Flex. I was always given ridiculous buy inns from Vistana for some weird reason(not the favorable ones mentioned here on TUGG) and as part of my last poker card negotiating, played the 'I will only do it if you make my Vistana VOI's as if they were developer purchase' card. I would have walked because it was mainly the DW who got reeled in by being able to go back 'guarenteed'(I know better). So the salesman knew some corporate people and he knew us from purchasing Lake Shore Reserve way back and said he would email and find out. They came back and said yes. The week was way more than what Vistana favorable buy in was but the incentives were not bad and the fact that we were bringing the voluntary resort in and considering the Abound points equivalent made it more palatable. (Our season is platinum and I can say that currently our week is available for any time when I do not see anything on the Abound exchange. That is excluding the specially sold weeks 51, 52 and floating Easter weekend.) It also made the price more in line with buying a bundle.
To give it context to your question, the email coming back from corporate stated that Vistana would previously do this for first week $10 000 and each week thereafter for $5 000. It seemed they had no idea how to measure if the deal was good or not at the time and fell back on those terms to make sure I was not getting to good a deal. Wether anybody else knows or if they now have a policy in place for this situation, I do not know.

 

[Mroze]

The reason I asked is because of the following scenario:

It would suck to find out that "I enrolled 5 x VSN-Contracts with Marriott MVC" by

• Purchasing 5K-DCP [$60K-$75K]

Only to find out that I could have done the same by

• Purchasing $30K-Flex

And have spent half as much.

 

[NorcalDisFan]

The amnesty program has not yet started for 2023? After reading some postings here, I'm considering buying one or two resale platinum plus week and then buying points or a week from MVC to get it enrolled, to get points with lower MF.

 

[dioxide45]

The amnesty program has not yet started for 2023? After reading some postings here, I'm considering buying one or two resale platinum plus week and then buying points or a week from MVC to get it enrolled, to get points with lower MF.

THat is an option, but it probably won't work for 2023. Any resale week you make offers for now will probably have closing dates fall after the start of the 2023 amnesty. You could start the process now and get in on amnesty next year.

 

[Dean]

THat is an option, but it probably won't work for 2023. Any resale week you make offers for now will probably have closing dates fall after the start of the 2023 amnesty. You could start the process now and get in on amnesty next year.

There may be another option. My sales contact has told me in the past they can delay closing on an enrollment up to 150 days. This is for enrollment using a week, not sure on points. The enrollment program should start in April this year but it sometimes starts earlier there (and St. Kitt's) than with points.

The amnesty program has not yet started for 2023? After reading some postings here, I'm considering buying one or two resale platinum plus week and then buying points or a week from MVC to get it enrolled, to get points with lower MF.

I assume you're main goal is to end up with points at the cheapest yearly fees possible. Depending on the volume you want to end up with, I'd offer a couple of additional considerations. You may want to consider a Fractional at Tahoe and or you may want to consider adding a trading unit and enroll at the same time to get free M to M exchanging, free change/cancel and free lock off fees.

 

[JIMinNC]

There may be another option. My sales contact has told me in the past they can delay closing on an enrollment up to 150 days. This is for enrollment using a week, not sure on points. The enrollment program should start in April this year but it sometimes starts earlier there (and St. Kitt's) than with points.

Closing date may not be relevant. Usually the amnesty promos have a cut off date a few days/weeks before the start of the promo and any week must be closed/owned by that date to be eligible for that promo. We had that very situation in 2019, where we owned our resale Maui week but still were in closing/escrow on our Kauai week when the 2019 promo started. Maui week was eligible but Kauai was not. We finally enrolled both in 2020.

 

[RookWDW]

Just trying to make sense of all of this as I'm sure we will have this discussion in July when at MGO. We own two resale weeks, Gold MGO and Plat MGC. Ignoring the financial issues, what benefits do you get to enroll weeks?

 

[Dean]

Closing date may not be relevant. Usually the amnesty promos have a cut off date a few days/weeks before the start of the promo and any week must be closed/owned by that date to be eligible for that promo. We had that very situation in 2019, where we owned our resale Maui week but still were in closing/escrow on our Kauai week when the 2019 promo started. Maui week was eligible but Kauai was not. We finally enrolled both in 2020.

My contact has told me this requirement is routinely waived. This was the very situation we were discussing.