Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

[csalter2]

Surf club DP chart here and there is no 3075 gold OS unit.


Those are points to stay at the resort. They are not the amount of points that the unit you own there will give you to stay at other resorts. Use this link to see how many DP points you will get and you will see the 3075 Gold OS unit at Surf Club. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1JCC8PxvfcjBVUdW710Oz68ewcUfH5pbQjVgNySGJPwY/htmlview

 

[csalter2]

All,

Yes I was offered the 5,500 Trust Points at $9.20 per point. I was offered 16,400 Bonus Points that are useable over a 3 year period.

Interesting to see a little variety in the offers. They are also offering an Aruba 2BR OS for $41K with 4,000 Bonus Points.

Best,

Greg

Greg,

It just occurred to me that the anniversary special that you were looking for is the 2010 roll back to $9.20 per point. Marriott went retro on the price for its anniversary special.

 

[csalter2]

just got off the phone with rep in headquarter. Took a good half hour to just get the price tag. I am interested but wants to wait for a better timing.....

3000 pts for 1 week
4000 pts for 2 weeks
5500 pts for 3-7 weeks

$10.18 per pts at 4000 level with $5000 discount paying with cash, total will be $35720. Per pt price drops to $8.93.

Incentive: 12000 plus points (different than regular point?) good for 3 year

‘As I was reading your post again, it hit me that you said your rep was at headquarters. Headquarters where? Do you know? I did my last purchase with headquarters in Utah and the rep sold me Aruba or I could have bought St. Kitts from him. I’m not sure what’s going on.

 

[DanCali]

I agree with the posters here that the only enticing thing would be a price to enroll the week without attaching the purchase or more points to the deal. I don't see MVC doing this with their stock back at $80 (went as low as $30), but under the right circumstances that deal will eventually come too.

My thinking about (not) purchasing points is as follows:

1) With so many Hawaii weeks in the trust, maintenance fees on trust points are too expensive. Even after the MVC skim, my weeks convert at 45c per point versus 60c(?) for trust points.

2) I don't own points but am enrolled in points. By being enrolled, I can usually rent as many as I want from other owners at 60-65 cents per point (owners who rent points from converted weeks still make a nice profit at that level). That's pretty much the cost of the maintenance fees without the hefty upfront cost. Yes, there is some risk of fraud with point transfer, and you cannot bank those points, but if the choice is to pay $35K + 60c in maintenance fees or just 60c-65c to rent points when you need them (albeit with some risks), I'd choose the latter.

3) Buying points up front is a cost you can never recover, but it can be quantified as follows. If you pay $11/point and you can resell them a week later for $3/point (the buyer would also pay MVC a fee of $3/point so they can use them, but you don't get that) then you lose $8/point, or around $25K for 3000 points. So personally I would be happy to pay Marriott even $5,000 to enroll a single
week without buying points. I might even offer them $10K for 1 week and see if they bite. And if they don't take $10K to just change a flag in a computer that just tells me how much more selling points is worth to them. There is no other "investment" where you lose 80% a week after you buy it, not even the infamous "car off the lot" example - so I just can't bring myself to do that. And I'm not looking to have the "timeshare is not an investment" discussion - to me it's an asset that I'd buy and it depreciates 80% on my personal balance sheet once I can't rescind.

4) The resale value of points can be further damaged by Marriott by their raising of the fee to reuse secondary market points. Every time they raise that fee (which was $1/point in 2011 and now it's $3/point) that arguably hurt resale value more.

 

[csodjd]

2) I don't own points but am enrolled in points. By being enrolled, I can usually rent as many as I want from other owners at 60-65 cents per point (owners who rent points from converted weeks still make a nice profit at that level). That's pretty much the cost of the maintenance fees without the hefty upfront cost. Yes, there is some risk of fraud with point transfer, and you cannot bank those points, but if the choice is to pay $35K + 60c in maintenance fees or just 60c-65c to rent points when you need them (albeit with some risks), I'd choose the latter.

How'd you get weeks enrolled without buying points? I have two EOY weeks, but to enroll them they want me to buy 3000 points, making it very cost ineffective. But, yes, I'd love to eligible to rent points.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

How'd you get weeks enrolled without buying points? I have two EOY weeks, but to enroll them they want me to buy 3000 points, making it very cost ineffective. But, yes, I'd love to eligible to rent points.

All weeks purchased prior to June 20th, 2010 are eligible to be enrolled for a very low fee. Once these weeks are sold then the enrollment is null and void to the subsequent buyer.



.

 

[frank808]

All weeks purchased prior to June 20th, 2010 are eligible to be enrolled for a very low fee. Once these weeks are sold then the enrollment is null and void to the subsequent buyer.



.

Actually pre June 2010 eligible weeks can be enrolled for no cost by watching a webinar event. I have read some have been able to enroll for no cost by attending a sales presentation.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Mroze]

How'd you get weeks enrolled without buying points? I have two EOY weeks, but to enroll them they want me to buy 3000 points, making it very cost ineffective. But, yes, I'd love to eligible to rent points.

We enrolled our resale Ko'Olina 2BR-IV [4025-DCP] in Dec-2010 and paid a fee $1495 [$595-Enrollment + $900-Penalty].
In Dec 2011 when we purchased 2500-DCP Marriott credited us back the $595 Enrollment-Fee.

In general we are not fans of owning points due to the High-MF/Point
We found the best value was a Hybrid purchase Week + Points which averaged out the Cost/Point to ~$6.50.

The best offer we saw was a Hybrid-Purchase [15100-DCP] that qualified for Chairman's-Club + Titanium for as long as we owned it with LOW-MF.
1-Week Marriott Residence-Club, Tahoe [3BR Fixed-WK52]: 12100-DCP for ~$50K with a Maintenance-Fee of $1500/Year
12 x Interests of 250-Points = 3000-DCP for ~$30K with a MF of $1800/Year
This was a steep price $80K so we passed, however, looking back it was very tempting as it would save us ~$6K/Year in MF.

 

[DanCali]

We enrolled our resale Ko'Olina 2BR-IV [4025-DCP] in Dec-2010 and paid a fee $1495 [$595-Enrollment + $900-Penalty].
In Dec 2011 when we purchased 2500-DCP Marriott credited us back the $595 Enrollment-Fee.

In general we are not fans of owning points due to the High-MF/Point
We found the best value was a Hybrid purchase Week + Points which averaged out the Cost/Point to ~$6.50.

The best offer we saw was a Hybrid-Purchase [15100-DCP] that qualified for Chairman's-Club + Titanium for as long as we owned it with LOW-MF.
1-Week Marriott Residence-Club, Tahoe [3BR Fixed-WK52]: 12100-DCP for ~$50K with a Maintenance-Fee of $1500/Year
12 x Interests of 250-Points = 3000-DCP for ~$30K with a MF of $1800/Year
This was a steep price $80K so we passed, however, looking back it was very tempting as it would save us ~$6K/Year in MF.

But even if one were to consider the "hybrid offer" (where Marriott offers you 3000+ points plus a resale week at a "reasonable" price that is enrolled in points at closing) it seems you can achieve the same outcome by buying that same week on the resale market and then taking Marriott up on the offer the OP mentioned when you go to the next Owner Update (i.e., buy points and enroll the resale week you already have in your account). That way, at least you can control buying the week at the "true" resale price and Marriott won't profit on that transaction too.

It's a different perspective when you can really buy something at fair/market value. I bought our first 4 timeshares between 2009 and 2011 and if I sold all 4 today I'd probably recover over 90% of what I paid. In the meantime we've had almost 10+ years of great vacations and I feel like we did ok (I'm ignoring the opportunity cost that investing that money in stocks would have tripled it since then - but that's an opportunity cost that merits consideration too when you spend tens of thousands of dollars). It's hard to come out ahead when you spend $80K up front for something that may be worth $30K when you try to sell it. You did the right thing by walking away...

I've been in a quite a few sales pitches and most sales people do a masterful job at pushing all the right buttons to getting you to say "yes". I understand why people buy and we were close to signing the dotted line more than once. What keeps the money in my pocket is remembering that what you buy from them is worth 50%-80% less on the resale market. Something that is truly wonderful doesn't depreciate that fast. I own 10 year old electronics that depreciated slower than a timeshare bought directly from MVC depreciates in the week after you buy it...

 

[Dean]

We enrolled our resale Ko'Olina 2BR-IV [4025-DCP] in Dec-2010 and paid a fee $1495 [$595-Enrollment + $900-Penalty].
In Dec 2011 when we purchased 2500-DCP Marriott credited us back the $595 Enrollment-Fee.

In general we are not fans of owning points due to the High-MF/Point
We found the best value was a Hybrid purchase Week + Points which averaged out the Cost/Point to ~$6.50.

The best offer we saw was a Hybrid-Purchase [15100-DCP] that qualified for Chairman's-Club + Titanium for as long as we owned it with LOW-MF.
1-Week Marriott Residence-Club, Tahoe [3BR Fixed-WK52]: 12100-DCP for ~$50K with a Maintenance-Fee of $1500/Year
12 x Interests of 250-Points = 3000-DCP for ~$30K with a MF of $1800/Year
This was a steep price $80K so we passed, however, looking back it was very tempting as it would save us ~$6K/Year in MF.

I believe some focus too much on the up front costs and lose sight of the long term costs. I believe one should look at the balance. I will point out that the Titanium status has never been a guarantee and that maintenance fees can change over time and might do so at different rates.

But even if one were to consider the "hybrid offer" (where Marriott offers you 3000+ points plus a resale week at a "reasonable" price that is enrolled in points at closing) it seems you can achieve the same outcome by buying that same week on the resale market and then taking Marriott up on the offer the OP mentioned when you go to the next Owner Update (i.e., buy points and enroll the resale week you already have in your account). That way, at least you can control buying the week at the "true" resale price and Marriott won't profit on that transaction too.

It's a different perspective when you can really buy something at fair/market value. I bought our first 4 timeshares between 2009 and 2011 and if I sold all 4 today I'd probably recover over 90% of what I paid. In the meantime we've had almost 10+ years of great vacations and I feel like we did ok (I'm ignoring the opportunity cost that investing that money in stocks would have tripled it since then - but that's an opportunity cost that merits consideration too when you spend tens of thousands of dollars). It's hard to come out ahead when you spend $80K up front for something that may be worth $30K when you try to sell it. You did the right thing by walking away...

I've been in a quite a few sales pitches and most sales people do a masterful job at pushing all the right buttons to getting you to say "yes". I understand why people buy and we were close to signing the dotted line more than once. What keeps the money in my pocket is remembering that what you buy from them is worth 50%-80% less on the resale market. Something that is truly wonderful doesn't depreciate that fast. I own 10 year old electronics that depreciated slower than a timeshare bought directly from MVC depreciates in the week after you buy it...

I agree with all your points but I think there are some other considerations. Historically those weeks you buy resale have to be in your account by the start of the promotion so one might have to wait an extra year, depending on timing, to enroll private purchases even if the option does come around next year. That has risk including that the program may change and that costs likely will increase. Buying on your own does give you more control of the price, resort(s) and season. For those that have looked at hybrid purchases and been able to negotiate a good week for the "resale portion" I believe have gotten good prices for the options in some cases, like Platinum Ocean Pointe, so it's worth comparing. It's also possible one can get a better price on the retail portion in some cases with a hybrid purchase over just buying to enroll, YMMV. I think a Hybrid purchase works best for one looking to get into the system in a big way or needing to add quite a number of points. There is an economy of scale as the price to enroll 7 weeks isn't overly dramatic compared to the price for one week. Knowing what I know now and if I were starting from scratch, I could see adding 7 high point, high value, low fee (compared to points) weeks then enrolling or going with a fractional enrolled. Regardless I think the weeks are usually best when they're something you can and likely will use outside of points.

I feel very strongly that one should consider the up front costs including the TVM & Opportunity costs. But I will point out that it's not simply a compound earnings comparison since if one didn't own they'd need to pay in some way to replace those vacations secured with the purchase in question. I'd also point out that one should buy to use, not to resale so what it's worth to sell isn't a core part of the equation. You should get your money back with interest in the usage in some combination of savings and additional enjoyment. For example, if you pay roughly the same for a 2 BR for a week compared to a hotel room or 2 of similar quality on cash, you didn't save any money, you actually lost because of the up front payment and ongoing commitment. But you did potentially get a lot more for your money.

 

[DanCali]

So notwithstanding stuff I wrote earlier in this thread about my dislike of the idea of buying points (will summarize reasons below) I anticipate getting one of these offers on an upcoming vacation next month.

Curious here what people would do and the rationale. Would like to hear other thoughts. Maybe I am missing something...

So here is the situation:

1) I am currently enrolled in points with Executive level
2) I have one post-2010 week that, if could get into Destinations, along with a ~3000 point purchase would get me to Chairman's.

My list of Pros:

1) Would be nice to have the ability to convert my 2010 week to points. It has a good point value.
2) Dollar rental value of the unenrolled week vs one of my enrolled weeks is about 20% more, but it would covert to about 45% more in points. So, if I want to convert weeks to points, it's a better option.

My current list of cons:

1) MF on purchased points very high. I can already rent points from others at rates almost equal to point MF.
2) Post 2010 week has great dollar rental value (slightly better than renting out the points it would convert to)
3) Upfront cost of purchased points versus their resale value implies immediate loss of 70%-80% on a ~$30K "investment"
4) Point resale value can be further devalued by Marriott whenever they want (e.g. by raising price to re-enroll resale points into the system)
5) Chainman vs. Executive - should I care? Is that worth a $30K expense? I don't see such a big difference in benefits, especially since I am already Titanium Bonvoy and expect to retain that status.

 

[Dean]

So notwithstanding stuff I wrote earlier in this thread about my dislike of the idea of buying points (will summarize reasons below) I anticipate getting one of these offers on an upcoming vacation next month.

Curious here what people would do and the rationale. Would like to hear other thoughts. Maybe I am missing something...

So here is the situation:

1) I am currently enrolled in points with Executive level
2) I have one post-2010 week that, if could get into Destinations, along with a ~3000 point purchase would get me to Chairman's.

My list of Pros:

1) Would be nice to have the ability to convert my 2010 week to points. It has a good point value.
2) Dollar rental value of the unenrolled week vs one of my enrolled weeks is about 20% more, but it would covert to about 45% more in points. So, if I want to convert weeks to points, it's a better option.

My current list of cons:

1) MF on purchased points very high. I can already rent points from others at rates almost equal to point MF.
2) Post 2010 week has great dollar rental value (slightly better than renting out the points it would convert to)
3) Upfront cost of purchased points versus their resale value implies immediate loss of 70%-80% on a ~$30K "investment"
4) Point resale value can be further devalued by Marriott whenever they want (e.g. by raising price to re-enroll resale points into the system)
5) Chainman vs. Executive - should I care? Is that worth a $30K expense? I don't see such a big difference in benefits, especially since I am already Titanium Bonvoy and expect to retain that status.

From a short term cost and benefit standpoint it likely doesn't make sense for you and it some ways, it didn't for me either. I enrolled 7.5 weeks for a $47K purchase of a 3 BR Platinum Aruba week, a week I'll use anyway. I was already chairman so that didn't play into it for me. But it sets me up to split my ownership into 2 different accounts from a legacy standpoint and gives me some additional options and the ability of a lot more points, points I'll use routinely starting in 3-4 years. I don't think chairman's give you a lot of benefit in your sitution but it does give some. It gives you a small additional discount on rentals and short notice points reservations and an extra month to bank. It also gives you access to ThirdHome, not that I think that's a great option but some feel it can be in the right situation. It also will likely lock you in to Chairman's club as there is rumors of an increase in requirements for that level and possibly even a higher level still coming. Were I in your situation I'd likely give it a year or 2 and see what happens with Vistana and any options there. It be a shame to see you make a big purchase only to be effectively locked out of enrollment with Vistana later.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Well, dislike of idea of buying points is based on whatever is most important to you. If it's dollars ONLY, then, don't do it. Many of us points owners do it for other reasons. After all, if the ONLY criteria for buying a car was price, who would ever buy an expensive sportscar? I believe only you can answer your own question based on the pros and cons you have learned about. What I would do doesn't matter much (or shouldn't). But still.... There is very little benefit for charimans level, I would definitely *not* do it for that. It's a non factor to me. So, it is a CON to me just as you have it. However, presidential does have a lot of tangible benefits, so, would be a PRO if you changed your request to presidential.

Another PRO would be avoiding various fees such as lockoff, MVCI trading in II, another II account. Those would be extra fees as they are now when you are not enrolled. Another PRO is what has happened with enrolled weeks owner and the virus, more options with all these pandemic issues such as free retrades.

I would point out on your renting points claim that some here really don't trust or like renting from others (I would never ever do it myself). If that doesn't bother you, keep it on your CON list.

Your #2 CON, is fine during non pandemic years, but, wasn't so great a deal for those renters out there this year. Kind of hurt bad in some cases.

Obvious PRO is flexibility, part week reservations, saving on airfares, etc. But that may not mean much to you.

 

[Steve Fatula]

It also gives you access to ThirdHome, not that I think that's a great option but some feel it can be in the right situation.

I am presidential and have access to ThirdHome. Look on the MVCI site, it says "This option is available to Owners with Chairman's Club and Presidential benefit levels."

 

[Dean]

I am presidential and have access to ThirdHome. Look on the MVCI site, it says "This option is available to Owners with Chairman's Club and Presidential benefit levels."

But not executive which was the comparison.

 

[Steve Fatula]

But not executive which was the comparison.

True, updated my other post to say while chairmans is not a pro benefit by any means, I feel strongly that at least Presidential is. That was one of the best features of what we had bought. Love it.

I had read yours to say Chairmans gave you access to ThirdHome (which it does), and thought it implied only Chairmans, but I suppose you looked at it correctly.

 

[Dean]

True, updated my other post to say while chairmans is not a pro benefit by any means, I feel strongly that at least Presidential is. That was one of the best features of what we had bought. Love it.

I had read yours to say Chairmans gave you access to ThirdHome (which it does), and thought it implied only Chairmans, but I suppose you looked at it correctly.

I think most consider Executive to be the sweet spot but it's nice to have the additional options above that if possible, just likely not as the reason for a purchase. The additional flexibility of points, esp with the current situation, is a big one though. And I would agree there isn't a lot of difference between Presidential and Chairman's Club other than if you trade for reward points which generally one shouldn't. But the big one, IMO, is the extra 6 months to use the MVC points over Presidential,12 years over Executive.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I think most consider Executive to be the sweet spot but it's nice to have the additional options above that if possible, just likely not as the reason for a purchase. The additional flexibility of points, esp with the current situation, is a big one though. And I would agree there isn't a lot of difference between Presidential and Chairman's Club other than if you trade for reward points which generally one shouldn't. But the big one, IMO, is the extra 6 months to use the MVC points over Presidential,12 years over Executive.

The discount 60 days in advance over 30 days in advance is huge I think. As is what you say, the extra banking time. Presidential was the reason I purchased. Ok, ThirdHome as well. Yes, that. The extra 5% discount was a little important.

 

[DanCali]

Thanks for the info - it's helpful actually.

So what is ThirdHome? I was looking at the website and it says you need to have a 500,000 home to enroll. So does this let you enroll your vacation week? or is it just to rent an exchange from someone else?

Have there been any reports where someone was offered this type of deal (buy points + add a post-2010 week) and then the week was not added but you couldn't rescind the points anymore?

I never was inclined to buy points. In a sales pitch 3 years ago we were offered this type of deal (but we didn't have the extra resale week then, so they offered us to buy it from them and they also didn't have the specific one I wanted which would get us to Chairman). I then figured that if we ever did it then it made sense to come to the table already owning a resale week so 3 years later here we are. Took me a while to find what I wanted, had to fight them through ROFR (was exercised on first try), but now at least we can do it where we don't overpay MVC for the resale week. I'd still prefer just paying $5K to enroll the extra week without buying points.

I wish they would just come out with a number where you can enroll the week for like $1 or $1.50 per DC point that the week converts to. But that would have the side effect of increasing resale value of weeks and since they buy them on ROFR they will never do that.

Also - I see there is a Plus Point incentive. Can those be rented out and if so how is the use year determined for the person renting them?

 

[Steve Fatula]

It's home rental via points. I've found several great deals on homes the past few years, but not all of them are by any means. I never found any in the other home rental programs with points, just ThirdHome.

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

I wouldn’t buy a thing for the time being. Nobody knows if/when travel will resume and yet you are laying out cash and maintenance fees. I see a lot of defaults foreclosures/fire sales coming up as many Americans will not be able to afford the luxury of travel for quite some time after this crisis subsides.

i know MVCI is a business, but rather than pitching sales of points during a pandemic, it should focus on how to work with owners who lost weeks/trips and will not be able to recoup the maintenance fees which go along with these lost trips.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the info - it's helpful actually.

So what is ThirdHome? I was looking at the website and it says you need to have a 500,000 home to enroll. So does this let you enroll your vacation week? or is it just to rent an exchange from someone else?

Have there been any reports where someone was offered this type of deal (buy points + add a post-2010 week) and then the week was not added but you couldn't rescind the points anymore?

I never was inclined to buy points. In a sales pitch 3 years ago we were offered this type of deal (but we didn't have the extra resale week then, so they offered us to buy it from them and they also didn't have the specific one I wanted which would get us to Chairman). I then figured that if we ever did it then it made sense to come to the table already owning a resale week so 3 years later here we are. Took me a while to find what I wanted, had to fight them through ROFR (was exercised on first try), but now at least we can do it where we don't overpay MVC for the resale week. I'd still prefer just paying $5K to enroll the extra week without buying points.

I wish they would just come out with a number where you can enroll the week for like $1 or $1.50 per DC point that the week converts to. But that would have the side effect of increasing resale value of weeks and since they buy them on ROFR they will never do that.

Also - I see there is a Plus Point incentive. Can those be rented out and if so how is the use year determined for the person renting them?

www.thirdhome.com I've looked at it quite a bit over the last year up until about Feb. Personally I have seen a lot of options I liked but never at a price I felt reasonable for our situation. It's likely a better use of points in the right situation than using points for true cash exchanges like cruises but overall, not much better. But it's like any such exchange, you're looking for the needle in a haystack where it does make sense. They tend to be more luxury options and often, larger units or homes but it's very variable.

I personally don't recall any situations where one bought and the enrollment fell through and I doubt it's happened or if it has, the buyer was given appropriate exit options. You would just get the agreement in writing up front. They are handled by separate departments so you may see some delay in the enrollment being completed over the purchase. The only situation that I think is risky is trying to do this and buy with a different set of names on the title but they likely wouldn't let you proceed anyway. If one were in that situation you'd just change the name on the week first then enroll later.

 

[DanCali]

<snip>

Those 12k plus points are worth at least $7200 so it would bring the price down to $28720 for 4k DC points at $7 a point. Cheapest price I have seen for direct purchase of DC points with enrollment of existing weeks yet.

<snip>

How do you get to this value?

Can an owner rent out these Plus points? It sounds like they are valid for a few years - do they have a particular use year if you do rent them out? If you can't rent them out, do you just assume they are worth the hypothetical rental value you can't realize?

 

[Fasttr]

How do you get to this value?

Can an owner rent out these Plus points? It sounds like they are valid for a few years - do they have a particular use year if you do rent them out? If you can't rent them out, do you just assume they are worth the hypothetical rental value you can't realize?

Appears he was using 60 cents a point estimated rental value. I don't believe you can transfer these, so you would have to use the Plus Points (for your own usage) and rent out your own points to capture this value. Or use the Plus Points to secure a ressie and rent out the ressie.

 

[DanCali]

Appears he was using 60 cents a point estimated rental value. I don't believe you can transfer these, so you would have to use the Plus Points (for your own usage) and rent out your own points to capture this value. Or use the Plus Points to secure a ressie and rent out the ressie.

Thanks!