On airplane now, large woman spilling onto me!

[geekette]

Another factor is the cost of fuel. If seat width were increased by 20%, six-across seating would require a plane with a bigger fuselage. Bigger fuselage means an airplane that is both heavier. More weight means more fuel required. Also, larger airplane means more aerodynamic drag, which also increases fuel consumption.

So from a practical standpoint, increasing seat spacing means going to five across seating, which would be about a 17% decrease in seating capacity. On routes where planes now routinely fly at near capacity that would mean adding more planes to the route, which is a less efficient way to fly. Meaning higher fares not just because of fewer seats on the plane but because serving the overall demand on that routing would require more planes on the route (or using longer planes on the route). Or the airlines increase fares on the route to bring the demand into balance with the supply.

so, basically, "careful what you ask for ..."

 

[Ridewithme38]

Another factor is the cost of fuel. If seat width were increased by 20%, six-across seating would require a plane with a bigger fuselage. Bigger fuselage means an airplane that is both heavier. More weight means more fuel required. Also, larger airplane means more aerodynamic drag, which also increases fuel consumption.

So from a practical standpoint, increasing seat spacing means going to five across seating, which would be about a 17% decrease in seating capacity. On routes where planes now routinely fly at near capacity that would mean adding more planes to the route, which is a less efficient way to fly. Meaning higher fares not just because of fewer seats on the plane but because serving the overall demand on that routing would require more planes on the route (or using longer planes on the route). Or the airlines increase fares on the route to bring the demand into balance with the supply.

Or they could just cut their yearly bonuses to the top executives to under 100 trillion a year...

 

[Passepartout]

Hand raised, waving!

I know, I know! Eliminate the seats altogether and just have bolsters to strap into while standing. Tilt-a-Whirl style. They oughtta be able to put 20% more of us cattle in the flying culverts. Think of the profits! Finally a way for the airlines to be profitable.

Jim

 

[PStreet1]

Or they could just cut their yearly bonuses to the top executives to under 100 trillion a year...

Cutting executive bonuses is an easy solution to offer, but it, too, fails to address the real problem: the American public does not want to pay for bigger seats and better service. The bonuses are a miniscule portion of the airline's operating budget and eliminating them altogether wouldn't do much for the price of a seat on the airline; I have no idea how much would be gained, but I'd bet it would be under a quarter per seat. Of course, employees who don't get bonuses, and in fact, have taken pay reductions resent the executive bonuses, but the bottom line really would not be affected much if the bonuses were eliminated--and of course, if the executive bonuses weren't part of the pay package, those people would find other jobs (and even in this job market, for people at that level, other jobs are available). Less capable managers would probably result in less efficient management--though of course, one never knows.


Mike Boyd, an airline industry analyst with Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colo., said he doesn’t begrudge airline executives’ compensation.
“If you’re prepared to take on American Airlines, you have to be prepared not to have any personal life,” Boyd said. “I can go skiing tomorrow. Gerard Arpey and (United Airlines CEO) Glenn Tilton cannot. They’re on call 24 hours a day.

“You have employee relations you have to work with, vendor relations you have to work with, financing relations you have to work with. You always have constituencies clamoring at you. You can’t be home with your kids. You don’t have time to take a two-week vacation in the summer.

“There is certain personal satisfaction with running an airline. But there’s a hell of a price to pay.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20100419_298_0_severa636294

http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/ceo-2010-pay-at-major-and-regional-airlines/

The bottom line is that if Americans want better service and bigger seats, they have to pay more--and lots of people do: business class and first class are usually full or close to it. Those who don't want the difference in service enough to pay for it, don't get it.

 

[kenie]

I know, I know! Eliminate the seats altogether and just have bolsters to strap into while standing. Tilt-a-Whirl style. They oughtta be able to put 20% more of us cattle in the flying culverts. Think of the profits! Finally a way for the airlines to be profitable.

Jim

Hasn't Ryanair proposed selling this type of seating(standing)?

I have to vote with Hypnotiq and Ride.
I'm 6'3" and about 230lbs.
I fit in the seats, but the leg-room is an absolute killer.

 

[heathpack]

For those of you clamoring on that people that don't fit in the sit should pay more really need to check yourselves. That's an easy answer when the person is truly morbidly obese and doesn't fit into the seat beyond reason.

However, when you have guys like Ride + myself who are 6'2+ and 210lbs (I don't know about Ride but my BF% is around 11%!) we don't fit either and we aren't obese!

This is a problem with the airlines making the seats too small for even normal people.

But I can hardly imagine that at 6'2" you are spilling over into your neighbors seat? I think the only scenario in which anyone suggests two seats should be purchased is for folks whose body extends into the neighboring passenger's personal space.

H

 

[Tia]

Last flight I was on one guy reclined his seat into the guys knees behind him. The guy behind him asked the guy ahead of him to pull it back up because he was 6'6" and his knees needed the room. My other half is 6'3" not over 200lb yet and has suffered with the limited leg room for which you must pay, same should be with width...

 

[hypnotiq]

But I can hardly imagine that at 6'2" you are spilling over into your neighbors seat? I think the only scenario in which anyone suggests two seats should be purchased is for folks whose body extends into the neighboring passenger's personal space.

H

My shoulder blades exceed the width of the seats. If I fly alone (w/out my tiny GF), I have to either roll my shoulders in the entire flight (not comfortable) or lean into the aisle (and get abused by the cart) so that I dont spill over to my neighbors.

Well forget about the poor person that has to sit in front of me and gets my knees for the entire flight.

 

[pwrshift]

Air Canada's policy

Extra seating for passengers with special needs

MONTRÉAL, January 8, 2009 - Air Canada is making available extra seating free of charge to passengers travelling within Canada who require additional space due to their disabilities, including obesity, or to accommodate an attendant.

The new services, available for customers booking domestic itineraries (wholly within Canada) beginning January 9, 2009, will be provided on Air Canada, Air Canada Express (operated by Jazz only) and Air Canada-coded flights operated by Tier 3 carriers (where aircraft type and configuration allow). The new policy is designed to meet the “One Passenger, One Fare” requirements of the Canadian Transportation Agency.

For bookings made before January 9 for travel after that date, customers are advised to contact Air Canada Reservations. If customers qualify for extra seating and their flight is after January 9, Air Canada will make the proper adjustments and either refund money or provide extra seating as required.

Passengers requesting extra seating will require a doctor’s certificate of their disability or need for an attendant when travelling, as well as medical approval for travel. If the passenger's special requirement is limited to extra seating due only to obesity, the authorisation will be valid for two years in order to facilitate repeat travel.

Eligible customers requiring additional space for their own use will be assigned a single reservation and ticket. Their seats will be assigned in advance of their flight by the Air Canada Medical Services desk so that their disabilities can be best accommodated. Additionally, such passengers should be aware that extra seating is not available on Beech aircraft and in Executive Class, and may be restricted on CRJ regional jet and Embraer aircraft.

For more information customers should consult the Air Canada website at http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/before/specialneeds.html or contact Air Canada Reservations or their travel agent. Air Canada will require 48 hours’ notice in advance of travel (in certain situations 72 hours’ notice) but will make every reasonable effort to accommodate bookings made within that time period. No advance seat selection is permitted when requesting extra seating.

For flights to and from the United States, Air Canada will continue to offer a 50 per cent discount off certain fares for attendants.

 

[Timeshare Von]

Amtrak can be an option

I recently took an Amtrak trip and was very impressed with the size, spaciousness and comfort of their coach seats. More and more as air travel continues to be challenging, for some trips Amtrak may be a viable option.

 

[Ridewithme38]

edited....

 

[PStreet1]

My husband's shoulders exceed the seat width, also--another reason I've decided that taking the middle is a good solution for us; that way, he intrudes only on me when he isn't intruding on the aisle. From time to time, we consider first or business, but generally decide that "for the relatively small amount of time we're on the plane" we're being paid pretty well to suffer rather than ride in comfort. Clearly, we could decide otherwise.

 

[MomoD]

I Love this idea

Can you just see the passengers faces with this one !! :hysterical:

I think the solution is pretty obvious: a long u-shaped sofa to replace the traditional seating. Once seated, the flight attendant comes by and measures how much of the sofa your a$$ is occupying, and collects a surcharge or distributes a rebate, based on your measurements relative to accumulated statistical data. Pretty simple.

 

[Rose Pink]

I think the solution is pretty obvious: a long u-shaped sofa to replace the traditional seating. Once seated, the flight attendant comes by and measures how much of the sofa your a$$ is occupying, and collects a surcharge or distributes a rebate, based on your measurements relative to accumulated statistical data. Pretty simple, no?

Like I said previously: calipers.

 

[geekette]

Can you just see the passengers faces with this one !! :hysterical:

I think the solution is pretty obvious: a long u-shaped sofa to replace the traditional seating. Once seated, the flight attendant comes by and measures how much of the sofa your a$$ is occupying, and collects a surcharge or distributes a rebate, based on your measurements relative to accumulated statistical data. Pretty simple.

Ok by me!!! One might call me a petite lady, and I will be happy to be the recipient of "proportional seating refunding". Measure me, announce the numbers, whatever, I don't care. But the more vain among us would likely rather hoof it than have their butts measured so I fear unpleasant scuffles, maybe even cheating.

and from this thread, seems butts aren't teh biggest problem, it's the upper body doing the expanding to personal space. I know that I rarely win the armrest battle, but I do fight back in my sweet little unassuming innocent way. Oh, was that your rib my elbow finally jabbed? golly, I'm sorry, after having my boob poked so much my arm was just naturally sticking out to protect it while I sit here in my own seat .... seemed that I had not fully protected my personal space and I thought if it was fair for your arm to come over to graze my boob that it would be equally ok for my arms to come visit your person...

 

[dwojo]

I am a large man and overweight as well. Due to my size I always get 2 adloining seats to be comfortable or I fly firstclass.

Ok, y'all, I've tried to be tolerant. Right now I am in an aisle seat on a transcontinental flight.

Literally wedged into the middle seat is a young woman of considerable size. She is about 4 inches wider than the seat, cannot just sit down, must force her derrière between the armrests.

Because of her size, the dynamics of her body posture is that her arms do not hang straight down from her shoulders, they protrude out at a 45 degree angle into the "airspace" over my seat. This means either her elbow is two inches from my right eye, or her shoulder and upper arm are resting on mine, depending on whether she has her arm in an "up" versus "down" position. Her left arm and shoulder have been rubbing against me for the entirety of the flight.

Now she is playing a video game on her phone, causing her elbows to jut out even more to the side. I have politely asked her to stop, pointing out that when she plays the game her arm rests on top of mine, which is touching the inside of (but not on top of) the armrest. My request was met with a strange mute blinking silence, somewhat like the response one might expect from, say, a over-large goldfish. She then went right back to playing her game.

To add insult to injury, she has also been farting up a storm.

There, I feel better already, just writing this post. But seriously, how many inches wider than the seat does one need to be to be required to purchase a second seat?!

H

 

[pwrshift]

http://www.geekabout.com/2008-04-21-446/ranked-the-most-comfortable-airline-economy-seats.html

Here's what they say about Virgin America... 21" seats sound great!

Virgin Atlantic – Flying Virgin Atlantic offers two choices for economy passengers: Economy, and Premium Economy. Economy passengers can expect their seats to have a pitch of about 31”, while Premium Economy customers can expect a tad bit more leg room and a wider seat at 21”, compared to 17.5”. Economy seats also feature seatback TVs, video on-demand, and some seats feature video game consoles with up to 35 different games.

http://www.virginamerica.com/home.do?tab=singleInstance

 

[Ridewithme38]

 

[Ubil]

Way back when airlines did weigh passengers

http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.htmlhttp://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.html

 

[Phydeaux]

http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.htmlhttp://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.html

Bring it back!! They had it right!!

 

[dougp26364]

I recently took an Amtrak trip and was very impressed with the size, spaciousness and comfort of their coach seats. More and more as air travel continues to be challenging, for some trips Amtrak may be a viable option.

Unless the Amtrack service is like ours and has only one departure at 03:00 AM. The other issue is having to spend the night in Chicago on trips east because the schedules don't match up or taking 2 days to travel to the west coast. And then there's the cost. The last time I looked (and it's been awhile), the cost wasn't a lot cheaper than flying.

Amtrack from the midwest is only an option for relatively short trips and, in our case, only if you don't mind the inconvenience of boarding the train at 3 in the morning. Talk about an early wake up call!

 

[dougp26364]

http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.htmlhttp://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Then--Now-A-Weighty-Matter.html

And in November, airlines began slimming the size of carry-ons with new rules, fees, and the installation of sizing frames at security machines to block oversized items. Since weight increases costs, passengers and airlines are partners in the bottom line.

Really? I haven't seen any sizing frames at security machines? We try to be careful and purchase/carry on only luggage that fits the size frames provided by the airlines. Partly in anticipation of such a scenario as the airlines cracking down and partly out of respect for the other passengers who also need to use overhead bin space.

I would LOVE to see airlines crack down on the rules and stop the oversized and or overstuffed expanded carry on bags that get crammed into the overhead bins. I know it will tick some people off and they'll make a seen, stamping their foot and swearing to never fly that airline again but, we all know it's more or less a show than reality.

 

[dougp26364]

I can see it now. Just like at the amuesment park they'll have a cardboard flight attendent with a stick and a sign "You must be this tall to board the aircraft." A side benefit to the stand up seat may be no more screaming children or babies on flights.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I recently took an Amtrak trip and was very impressed with the size, spaciousness and comfort of their coach seats. More and more as air travel continues to be challenging, for some trips Amtrak may be a viable option.

I'm actually considering Amtrak for my August Trip to Williamsburg, with gas prices it may actually be cheaper then driving

 

[rickandcindy23]

Why do people put their overcoats into overheads? I don't get it. Keep your coat in your seat and stop hogging the overhead compartments. I went to put my carryon, a small one, into the overhead and piled three coats together, because the stupid people had them lining the entire area of that overhead. Made me nuts! Hey, I just want one spot for my small bag.