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On airplane now, large woman spilling onto me!

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fillde

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Capitalism is an economic system, not a government system, so i hope this is ok to say...

This is the Main problem with Capitalism...The Airlines will continue to down size the seats as long as they can raise their profits...there's no thought to the comfort or the care of the actual people, just the profit line...

Expenses maybe less for someone just buying the seat for comfort and it will help all the other people be more comfortable...But if they reduce the cost of that seat, thats money off their bottom end....This can't happen in a Capitalistic system, money comes before everything with Capitalism

Wow. I guess this is the definition of "hijacking" a thread.
 

PStreet1

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One airline is doing something about the situation - Southwest

http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html


These rules are controversial, but Southwest has stood by its policy despite several unsuccessful lawsuits against it.

.
I was on a Southwest flight in the situation I posted earlier when the person "of size" was cheerful and polite; he was the one who lifted his fat and tucked the seat belt under the fat--didn't ask for a seat belt extension, and as I said, who is going to ask him to prove the seat belt is fastened. Not me. And I don't see the attendant asking either. Southwest MAY do something if someone really makes a scene about it, but as a general policy? I say no.
 

am1

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What expenses are reduced? One can of coke and one package of some sort of snack? The gasoline required to haul a 200 pound person plus 50 pounds of luggage? I don't see a reduction of any size for them, and requiring them to sell a seat at a loss is totally unfair to the corporation. They are profit making entities, not charities.

For the airlines, it is definitely not better than the current system. For the passengers, maybe--only if the "of size" passenger is willing to pay more, and I, like others who have posted, would bet money that most wouldn't. The people who might pay more are the more normally sized persons who have a bit of extra cash.

All the junk taxes, the cost of check in, liability/life insurance, sales cost, lost/damaged bag expense among many others.

I have never said the airline should lose money.
 

MuranoJo

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And if I'm seated next to a guy, I also "automatically" lose the use of the armrest.

I think the armrest thing is an interesting struggle. Frankly, I willingly give it up for any poor person stuck in the middle. But if I happen to be in the middle, I'll assertively fight for armrest space, regardless if it's a guy or gal. And I admit, guys tend to automatically claim the armrest. Just elbow them off. :D
 

dougp26364

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I think the armrest thing is an interesting struggle. Frankly, I willingly give it up for any poor person stuck in the middle. But if I happen to be in the middle, I'll assertively fight for armrest space, regardless if it's a guy or gal. And I admit, guys tend to automatically claim the armrest. Just elbow them off. :D

The armrest thing never really bothers me on short flights. On longer flights, I look for 767's or 777's and try to get us into the two seat isle. Of course, the issue for us is I book early and airlines keep changing equipement, making it tough to get a flight on the equipement we want.

AA and Delta us to be our favorites because most of our shorter routes they flew using MD-80's. We could almost always get on the two seat isle. But now they're cutting back on the aging and inefficient MD-80 fleet, Delta's FF program stinks and who knows what will happen with AA being in bankruptcy.
 

zcrider

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I agree, this is a problem on flights. I can't stand being trapped next to a large person on a flight either, but since I figure I am stuck for the duration of the flight if it is full, I take the lesser of the two evils and just move my own body. It doesn't matter at that point if it is "fair" or not, it is about comfort. I would rather tilt away then "fight for the space" the whole flight. I will turn sideways in my seat or lean out into the isle when I can rather then have the large person rubbing on me and making me all hot the whole flight from being smashed against their side. Yuck. If you are not a large person yourself then I think this is much easier then fighting for space. They can not shrink themselves on the spot, so it is really pointless at that point. I am no skinny Minnie, but I do fit in my seat and can "make room" when I have to. I choose to lean away rather then have them touching and rubbing on me.
I love how you describe the goldfish stare. Lol. Classic passive aggressive person saying f*** you without saying a word. Yep, if they are hogging up extra space they should be polite and pull their arms in best they can for the duration of the flight. That is only good manners. People can be so selfish and it is getting worse with the generations. I see a big deterioration since my grandparents generation. There is a large lack in work ethic, morals, honesty, and manners. Very sad.
 

dioxide45

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Expenses are a lot less if someone is just needing the second seat for more space. Plus the other passengers will enjoy it. More likely the people that need a second seat will purchase one. It is better than the current system.

If that were the case, the OP wouldn't have had an issue, the passenger next to her would have bought the extra seat but they didn't. People will rarely buy a second seat, it doubles their cost. But if the option existed to pay for the extra inches at a cost that was inline with the original cost of the seat, then they might. Business and first class don't qualify since their costs of the extra inches is not in line with the cost of a coach seat.

What expenses are reduced? One can of coke and one package of some sort of snack? The gasoline required to haul a 200 pound person plus 50 pounds of luggage? I don't see a reduction of any size for them, and requiring them to sell a seat at a loss is totally unfair to the corporation. They are profit making entities, not charities.

While gas costs similar, their administrative costs are lower. Also if the average person is 200# with a 50# bag that is 500# for two people. If the passenger of size is 350# with a 50# bag, then there is only 400# to carry for one passenger instead of 500# for two.
 

Sandi Bo

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On a recent (Delta) flight a very large woman was in the middle seat next to my window seat. The plane was not full, maybe 75% of the seats were taken.

To me it was very obvious that getting to my seat and then being comfortable would be challenging.

I asked the flight attendants if I could sit in one of the empty seats. They acted oblivious to what I thought was an obvious situation. They said it was a full flight and suggested I take my seat. They chose to ignore what I thought was incredibly obvious.

I did squeeze in to my seat. The flight was not full, and the woman moved over once the doors closed. Thankfully there were no other side affects (as mentioned my OP).
 

Elan

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I think the solution is pretty obvious: a long u-shaped sofa to replace the traditional seating. Once seated, the flight attendant comes by and measures how much of the sofa your a$$ is occupying, and collects a surcharge or distributes a rebate, based on your measurements relative to accumulated statistical data. Pretty simple, no?
 

lvhmbh

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We use our credit cards for FF miles almost always. I give cash to the 15 year old but otherwise it is CC's that we pay off. This way we can upgrade with miles after buying the cheapest seats in coach. If we fly Jet Blue we pay the upcharge for the larger seat and hope that most people didn't.
 

AKE

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it is easy to criticize a large/obese person and say its their lifestyle and diet, but unfortunately sometimes it is not just personal neglect, but it could be something genetic, or a disability that has caused them to gain weight, or even a medical condition like something to do with adrenal glands or Prader-Willi syndrome(in fact 1% of obese people are due to medical causes, not because they are "american slobs"). My guess is the OP doesnt have a personal experience regarding this type of issue, or maybe they would be more understanding and forgiving of the situation. Especially considering he posted this just after Easter/Passover (christian/jewish spirit??) I'm sure she was just as uncomfortable as you, and your comment about her phone .. Should she sit there with her arms crossed for you?

Sure its not an ideal situation, but you can always buy the seat next to you to ensure it doesnt happen again... or fly private.

Why should I buy an extra seat? I paid for my seat and am not using more than what I bought. If a person needs more than one seat then THEY should be paying for it. Go to Europe, the far east or almost any other place in the world and you do not see the obeisity that is in North America. From the studies that I have seen, the large majority of oversize people OVEREAT. Look in Wal-Mart, MacDonalds, or just about any other restaurant or fast food place and the ones that are oversize almost always OVERSIZE their portions and have multiple portions. From my readings it is usually easy to tell the difference between over-eating and a glandular or other medical issue. Look at their leg from the knee to the ankle. People with medical issues tend to have this part in proportion to the rest of their body (i.e. it will also be big) whereas overeaters will tend to have a generally slim leg when compared to the rest of their body. I undestand medical issues but these are minimal. If I have a large person sitting on me in a plane I push back with all my weight and especially my bony elbows. It almost always has some degree of success. -:)
 

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The simple solution is you enlarge the seats for everyone...when even the slightly above average like me is uncomfortable on a long flight, there is obviously a problem

But that would cut into the airlines profit, why cut profit when you can stuff people in like sardines, causing situations like this thread and get away with it?
 

pwrshift

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I bet the offending passenger ate too many mini pies...........

Good line. If so, Heathpack and she could talk about making diet pies for the whole trip. :)

I doubt the heavy person enjoys being so overweight. People can be very cruel to the obese and the stress of that probably makes her seek a donut or mini pie to feel better. America is obese and there's no instant cure...fast food is too cheap and too available. Banning drive throughs could help as large people don't like ordering donuts in public. 'Desserts' spelled backwards is 'Stressed'.

The airlines are at fault too. Would you want to sit in a 16 inch wide office chair with arms all day at work? I haven't sat in economy for perhaps 15 years as I prefer the comfort and can (usually) afford business class. Two months ago we had to fly across Canada for a funeral and because last minute return business class seats were priced at $5700 each I asked about buying three economy seats for the two of us instead, and paid $2100 for them...a huge saving from the $11,400 for two biz class.

It is a different world in economy. With our seat arms up and the middle seat empty the flight was only marginally comfortable...and we had to pay for our drinks, food, pillows, blankets, suitcases, etc. Tough life. I can't imagine sitting with 3 normal sized flyers in those seats.
 

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If people keep buying the product, why should the airline change anything??
 

Ridewithme38

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If people keep buying the product, why should the airline change anything??

People HAVE to purchase the product, in alot of cases there is no other way

With certain products the government protects the people, i don't see why airline travel should be different than things like milk and beef, in a worldwide economy many many people depend on airline travel daily just to do their jobs, without the ability to fly to places like Europe and Hong Kong, a large portion of our businesses would suffer severely
 

vacationhopeful

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Stop allowing the Congress to fly in private jets and First Class ==> then if will change VERY QUICKLY.

Stop allowing businesses to deduct as a business expense more than a coach ticket by including the excess cost as INCOME to the flyer.
 

geekette

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People HAVE to purchase the product, in alot of cases there is no other way

With certain products the government protects the people, i don't see why airline travel should be different than things like milk and beef, in a worldwide economy many many people depend on airline travel daily just to do their jobs, without the ability to fly to places like Europe and Hong Kong, a large portion of our businesses would suffer severely

You are never FORCED to buy the product. We will likely disagree on that all day.

If your job depends on daily air travel, you have the ability to change jobs, encourage your employer to purchase their own plane, etc. The business created teh dependency and if an employee is chronically smushed by large seatmates, pop for 1st class. Why should an airline change when your own employer could make things better for you?

You are not FORCED to sit in coach. You are not FORCED to board a plane. It is ALWAYS a choice, even if required by job, you chose that situation.

I do not see "I don't have enough space" as an issue meriting gov't "protection." I would reserve that rally cry for when they start stuffing us in cargo. See how many want to be first in line to board when that happens!
 

pwrshift

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heathpack

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I love how you describe the goldfish stare. Lol. Classic passive aggressive person saying f*** you without saying a word. Yep, if they are hogging up extra space they should be polite and pull their arms in best they can for the duration of the flight. That is only good manners. People can be so selfish and it is getting worse with the generations. I see a big deterioration since my grandparents generation. There is a large lack in work ethic, morals, honesty, and manners. Very sad.

You know, it was the "f*** you" attitude and the constant moving around that really pushed me over the edge. You could not just move yourself out of her way, the elbows were flailing.

You are so right though about people becoming increasingly selfish & rude in public. I ride a train to work, the seating is pairs of seats facing each other, resulting in groups of 4 seats. There is also a quiet car which I ride in- supposed to be no phone calls, no conversations, no children. Frequent announcements are made asking folks to occupy only 1 seat & reminding what the quiet car is about. Every train trip, people just blatantly disregard these rules. Yesterday, there was a lady occupying one seat, while she had her purse on yet another and a grocery bag on another. All in a crowded car. I frequently just ask people to move their bags, nice about it, but thinking "what's wrong with you?". The conductors don't want to deal with this, no one wants to hear the sqwaking on social media or the 6:00 news, I guess.

However, the day someone starts repeatedly shoving their purse or briefcase into my shoulder, ribs and face is the day I start driving my car to work for sure!

H
 

Tia

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http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/47002954#47002954

Anyone see it today? Todays Professionals started out w/talking about Ashely Judd and the NEXT topic 'Obese Need not Apply' health care jobs bmi over 35. Starr Jones part was particularly interesting re.

Totally agree on the effects it has on health care!
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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People HAVE to purchase the product, in alot of cases there is no other way

With certain products the government protects the people, i don't see why airline travel should be different than things like milk and beef, in a worldwide economy many many people depend on airline travel daily just to do their jobs, without the ability to fly to places like Europe and Hong Kong, a large portion of our businesses would suffer severely

You picked bad examples to illustrate your point, because it is almost exactly the same with milk and beef vs. travel. In each case there is a government agency that regulates the safety of the item.

But the government leaves it to the market place to sort out what grades of meat will be available and the demand and pricing for those grades of meat. In addition, the government doesn't (yet) require that you purchase any particular type, grade, or quantity of any foodstuff.

Same thing with the airlines - the government leaves it to the market place to decide the grades of service that will be available and the demand and pricing for those grades. The government also does not require that any person fly.

******

This is a topic, by the way, on which the public has voiced it's opinions loudly and clearly. Over the years there have been airlines that have tried to provide a higher quality flying experience - more room in the seats, better food, etc, for an added price. They have all failed in the mass market. (There may be some niche carriers still operating that way.)

The traveling public has stated clearly that the main thing it wants is low fares. Given the choice between low fares + crummy service vs. higher fares + better service, the vast majority of the traveling public will select low fares + crummy service, and then voice their complaints about how crummy the service is.

*****

We have the situation that we have with airline roominess for the simple reason that every time an airline has tried to provide more room they haven't been able to attract enough people willing to pay for the extra room to make it viable.
 

PStreet1

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I'm interested in the criticism of airlines' pricing policies. Since every major airline we have (other than Southwest) has been or is dealing with bankruptcy, it's difficult for me to see that they are making a huge grab for excess profits at their customer's expense. Every seat they sell contributes to their bottom line, and the bottom line, obviously, hasn't been doing well or they would not have needed to restructure through bankruptcy. That's why we have "the incredible shrinking seat." That need to make enough money to keep flying plus Americans' increasing girth is causing the problem. For everyone, Americans' increasing lack of manners compounds everything.
 

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They should charge by weight just like they do my kids at the chinese buffet!!!
 

hypnotiq

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For those of you clamoring on that people that don't fit in the sit should pay more really need to check yourselves. That's an easy answer when the person is truly morbidly obese and doesn't fit into the seat beyond reason.

However, when you have guys like Ride + myself who are 6'2+ and 210lbs (I don't know about Ride but my BF% is around 11%!) we don't fit either and we aren't obese!

This is a problem with the airlines making the seats too small for even normal people.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I'm interested in the criticism of airlines' pricing policies. Since every major airline we have (other than Southwest) has been or is dealing with bankruptcy, it's difficult for me to see that they are making a huge grab for excess profits at their customer's expense. Every seat they sell contributes to their bottom line, and the bottom line, obviously, hasn't been doing well or they would not have needed to restructure through bankruptcy. That's why we have "the incredible shrinking seat." That need to make enough money to keep flying plus Americans' increasing girth is causing the problem. For everyone, Americans' increasing lack of manners compounds everything.
Another factor is the cost of fuel. If seat width were increased by 20%, six-across seating would require a plane with a bigger fuselage. Bigger fuselage means an airplane that is both heavier. More weight means more fuel required. Also, larger airplane means more aerodynamic drag, which also increases fuel consumption.

So from a practical standpoint, increasing seat spacing means going to five across seating, which would be about a 17% decrease in seating capacity. On routes where planes now routinely fly at near capacity that would mean adding more planes to the route, which is a less efficient way to fly. Meaning higher fares not just because of fewer seats on the plane but because serving the overall demand on that routing would require more planes on the route (or using longer planes on the route). Or the airlines increase fares on the route to bring the demand into balance with the supply.
 
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