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On airplane now, large woman spilling onto me!

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Really? I haven't seen any sizing frames at security machines? We try to be careful and purchase/carry on only luggage that fits the size frames provided by the airlines. Partly in anticipation of such a scenario as the airlines cracking down and partly out of respect for the other passengers who also need to use overhead bin space.

I would LOVE to see airlines crack down on the rules and stop the oversized and or overstuffed expanded carry on bags that get crammed into the overhead bins. I know it will tick some people off and they'll make a seen, stamping their foot and swearing to never fly that airline again but, we all know it's more or less a show than reality.

Not sure how security would be able to install sizing machines. Different airlines have different size requirements for their carry on luggage. For years AirTran had very large size limitations, much more than any of the other airlines. Another thing to note also is that those sizers at the gates and checkin counters are much smaller than the actual sizes permitted when you look at the airline websites.

The article was also from February 2009, so that would mean that those sizing frames were installed in the fall of 2008. If that were the case, all security locations would now have them. Just not true.
 
it is easy to criticize a large/obese person and say its their lifestyle and diet, but unfortunately sometimes it is not just personal neglect, but it could be something genetic, or a disability that has caused them to gain weight, or even a medical condition like something to do with adrenal glands or Prader-Willi syndrome(in fact 1% of obese people are due to medical causes, not because they are "american slobs"). My guess is the OP doesnt have a personal experience regarding this type of issue, or maybe they would be more understanding and forgiving of the situation. Especially considering he posted this just after Easter/Passover (christian/jewish spirit??) I'm sure she was just as uncomfortable as you, and your comment about her phone .. Should she sit there with her arms crossed for you?

Sure its not an ideal situation, but you can always buy the seat next to you to ensure it doesnt happen again... or fly private.

Clapping :rolleyes:
 
it is easy to criticize a large/obese person and say its their lifestyle and diet, but unfortunately sometimes it is not just personal neglect, but it could be something genetic, or a disability that has caused them to gain weight, or even a medical condition like something to do with adrenal glands or Prader-Willi syndrome(in fact 1% of obese people are due to medical causes, not because they are "american slobs"). My guess is the OP doesnt have a personal experience regarding this type of issue, or maybe they would be more understanding and forgiving of the situation. Especially considering he posted this just after Easter/Passover (christian/jewish spirit??) I'm sure she was just as uncomfortable as you, and your comment about her phone .. Should she sit there with her arms crossed for you?

Sure its not an ideal situation, but you can always buy the seat next to you to ensure it doesnt happen again... or fly private.

I have found this to be the oddest post on this thread, as I passed no value judgement on the issue of my neighbors obesity. I don't care one iota why the woman is obese, that is none of my beeswax. The only issue that I have is that her obesity infringed upon my personal space. I would have felt the same way about someone sitting next to me on a plane who was say wearing a sombrero or carrying a broadsword or perhaps wearing David Byrnes big suit from Stop Making Sense. If something associated with you impinges on the reasonable comfort of others, it is up to you to mitigate that effect on others.

So my feeling is first, she should have purchased two seats. But if she could not afford that, she should have tried to be as unobtrusive as possible by minimizing movement and, yes, sitting quietly and not playing video games on her phone. If by some chance you do not realize how your fiddling and back & forth to the touchscreen TV and playing the video game worsens your infringement onto your neighbors personal space, a simple "I'm so sorry" when it is pointed out to you would do wonders.

Sorry but being obese even if due to a medical condition does not exempt you from considerate behavior when you are in a public situation.

H
 
Really? I haven't seen any sizing frames at security machines? We try to be careful and purchase/carry on only luggage that fits the size frames provided by the airlines. Partly in anticipation of such a scenario as the airlines cracking down and partly out of respect for the other passengers who also need to use overhead bin space.

I would LOVE to see airlines crack down on the rules and stop the oversized and or overstuffed expanded carry on bags that get crammed into the overhead bins. I know it will tick some people off and they'll make a seen, stamping their foot and swearing to never fly that airline again but, we all know it's more or less a show than reality.

I first used one of the sizing machines last year, it isn't a frame, it is a large electronic machine which I suspect uses laser to check dimensions. Luggage is scanned individually for size and weight and the info is displayed on a screen. I chose my brand new bag because it was exactly the dimensions required by the airline (not wishing to lose a single centimetre :p). I was very surprised when the scanner rejected my bag as oversize, then I realised I had left an expander zip open. Once closed, the bag was accepted, it was literally about 1 1/2 cm (less than 1 inch) oversize with the zip open.

If the bag is rejected, the screen says to present it to staff at a counter. I hate hold-ups (even more than having to pay excess baggage charges) so I spend a lot of time avoiding them. I didn't get to find out how long it takes to process oversize or overweight luggage.
 
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I think she should have sat in aisle seat,in that way she would over flowed into the aisle.Maybe the servers and other passengers would have realized that she should be moved.There is nothing better than having people that are inconvenienced coming to there own conclusion and doing the right thing.Thank heavens you didn't have the window seat.You would have been trapped.Good story.
 
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Really? I haven't seen any sizing frames at security machines? We try to be careful and purchase/carry on only luggage that fits the size frames provided by the airlines. Partly in anticipation of such a scenario as the airlines cracking down and partly out of respect for the other passengers who also need to use overhead bin space.

I would LOVE to see airlines crack down on the rules and stop the oversized and or overstuffed expanded carry on bags that get crammed into the overhead bins. I know it will tick some people off and they'll make a seen, stamping their foot and swearing to never fly that airline again but, we all know it's more or less a show than reality.

You hit my pet peeve - what is with the GIANT carry-ons that get gate-checked? If it were my airline, I would charge more for that because it should have been checked with other luggage. Yes, I would put a punitive fee on it.

I don't see the frames at security, I see them at teh gate. They look brand new from lack of use...

I am generally a rules-follower and that one steams me. It is meant for crutches, strollers, wheelchairs, musical instruments that shouldn't be checked and other delicate items. Not for someone's hoggy insistence that they are special and do not need to check their oversize bags. grrrrrr

And certainly more than a carryon + personal bag comes on A LOT. Which I don't care about if it all fits under the seat, but if you have too much, no, you should have checked some of it. Yes, it costs money to check baggage. But that was known before it was brought to the airport.

Amtrack - inconvenient. I would do it for the train trip but not to actually try to get somewhere in a timely manner. Routes from here are wacky. Sleeper compartments are more expensive than flying.
 
Cutting executive bonuses is an easy solution to offer, but it, too, fails to address the real problem: the American public does not want to pay for bigger seats and better service. The bonuses are a miniscule portion of the airline's operating budget and eliminating them altogether wouldn't do much for the price of a seat on the airline; I have no idea how much would be gained, but I'd bet it would be under a quarter per seat. Of course, employees who don't get bonuses, and in fact, have taken pay reductions resent the executive bonuses, but the bottom line really would not be affected much if the bonuses were eliminated--and of course, if the executive bonuses weren't part of the pay package, those people would find other jobs (and even in this job market, for people at that level, other jobs are available). Less capable managers would probably result in less efficient management--though of course, one never knows.


Mike Boyd, an airline industry analyst with Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colo., said he doesn’t begrudge airline executives’ compensation.
“If you’re prepared to take on American Airlines, you have to be prepared not to have any personal life,” Boyd said. “I can go skiing tomorrow. Gerard Arpey and (United Airlines CEO) Glenn Tilton cannot. They’re on call 24 hours a day.

“You have employee relations you have to work with, vendor relations you have to work with, financing relations you have to work with. You always have constituencies clamoring at you. You can’t be home with your kids. You don’t have time to take a two-week vacation in the summer.

“There is certain personal satisfaction with running an airline. But there’s a hell of a price to pay.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20100419_298_0_severa636294

http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/ceo-2010-pay-at-major-and-regional-airlines/

The bottom line is that if Americans want better service and bigger seats, they have to pay more--and lots of people do: business class and first class are usually full or close to it. Those who don't want the difference in service enough to pay for it, don't get it.

Its a good place to start. I don't begrudge the top few money makers because usually they're the creative thinkers, but its the dozens and sometimes hundreds of empty suits that make way too much money.
 
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This is a topic, by the way, on which the public has voiced it's opinions loudly and clearly. Over the years there have been airlines that have tried to provide a higher quality flying experience - more room in the seats, better food, etc, for an added price. They have all failed in the mass market. (There may be some niche carriers still operating that way.)

The traveling public has stated clearly that the main thing it wants is low fares. Given the choice between low fares + crummy service vs. higher fares + better service, the vast majority of the traveling public will select low fares + crummy service, and then voice their complaints about how crummy the service is.

*****

We have the situation that we have with airline roominess for the simple reason that every time an airline has tried to provide more room they haven't been able to attract enough people willing to pay for the extra room to make it viable.
You hit the nail on the head. I watched a local airline that provided quality seating (both breath and depth) for a small premium go down the drain. As soon as a low cost airline entered the market (poor seating) it was good bye to quality.

Just today I flew on a 1200 mile flight. For an extra $20 I purchased an exit row seat. Put differently, a 14% increase in my ticket price added at least that much more leg room. My estimate is that about 80% of the people on the flight could have done the same. (Parents with kids and a few very elderly people were ineligible.) Ten such seats were available. My wife and I took two of them. One other was taken. Seven sat empty on a nearly full plane. People voted with their wallets. They would rather sit in seats with a 31" inch pitch then pay $20 for decent legroom.

Airlines are cramming us in because that is what they need to do in a competive environment.

Look in the mirror. I have met the enemy and it is us.
 
Amtrak Travel Comparison

Since I brought it up, I see there is another thread discussing it. I thought I would also share here the travel report/journal that I wrote after my Amtrak trip from Milwaukee to Whitefish, MT (roundtrip) last month.

While admittedly not for everyone, I can make a case that for that trip in particular, the math works to show the train is a viable option to driving or flying.
 
...

Because of her size, the dynamics of her body posture is that her arms do not hang straight down from her shoulders, they protrude out at a 45 degree angle into the "airspace" over my seat. This means either her elbow is two inches from my right eye, or her shoulder and upper arm are resting on mine, depending on whether she has her arm in an "up" versus "down" position. Her left arm and shoulder have been rubbing against me for the entirety of the flight.

Now she is playing a video game on her phone, causing her elbows to jut out even more to the side. I have politely asked her to stop, pointing out that when she plays the game her arm rests on top of mine, which is touching the inside of (but not on top of) the armrest. My request was met with a strange mute blinking silence, somewhat like the response one might expect from, say, a over-large goldfish. She then went right back to playing her game.
....

H
Oh, how I wonder what her reaction would have been if those flying elbows had knocked your drink into her lap?
 
You hit the nail on the head. I watched a local airline that provided quality seating (both breath and depth) for a small premium go down the drain. As soon as a low cost airline entered the market (poor seating) it was good bye to quality.

Precisely. If airlines could fill seats that provide extra room at an added price, they would do so in a heartbeat.

Do folks really think that airlines haven't thought about creating roomier seats and charging a premium?????? With all of the scrounging that airlines are doing to generate added fees, there is no doubt that they have considered this.

But over the last 30 years the traveling public has voted loudly and clearly with their pocketbooks - gives us cheap fares and service be damned.

*****

I'm old enough to remember a time when airlines did compete on service. That was in the days when the Federal government set minimum air fares on each route, and the fares were set at a level where even the most inefficient carriers could turn a profit. Since an airline couldn't undercut the fare of a competitor, the only way to generate more profit was to attract more travelers. Which they did by provided better service. Those are the good old days of flying that people talk about.

Those were also the expensive days of flying. How expensive was it?????

Let me illustrate. In the early 1970's I was going to school in St. Louis and my family lived in Minneapolis. Braniff and Ozark were the two airlines that had the franchise to fly between St. Louis and Minneapolis, and only Braniff was non-stop. As a student I could fly on Braniff for two-thirds fare, confirmed seat. (With most airlines student fare was half-off, standby only). I paid about $80 each way. Sounds cheap in todays dollars, but at the time that was still pretty expensive. My dad made $4/hour, so a round trip ticket was the same as one week of pay for him, pre-tax. Needless to say, I didn't fly home from school very often. In the four years I was in St. Louis I flew home three times, and two of those I paid for myself. (I was lucky enough to have a decent job and lived with a vegetarian roommate and we got by on $5/week for food, so I could scrounge the money for a couple of tickets.) More often I caught a ride with someone and shared gas - then I could get home for about $10. That's why the kiosks at colleges in those days were filled with ads for people looking for rides and riders to various locales.

In 1974 I moved to San Francisco, where there was this airline called PSA that flew only within California. By staying within California it was not subject to fare regulation by the Federal government; it's fares were regulated by the California PUC and the PUC let PSA (and AirCal, another local carrier) set fares wherever they wanted. I was stunned to learn that PSA was flying SFO to LAX for $19 each way.

***

So yeah, you want to go back to the good old days when airlines competed on service??? Would you feel that way if that meant that airfares doubled or tripled over where they are now???

The result of airlines competing on price is that flying has become a direct competitor with the automobile for longer trips.

Here at TUG there are so many of us who go to Mexico every year. Or Hawaii. Or the Caribbean. Or .... wherever. We've gotten to a point where we think that making all of these trips is almost as natural as breathing.

But when people pine for the good old days, they don't realize that in those days they couldn't travel like they do now. At that time flying was only done by the wealthy and the elite, not the plebes.
 
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But when people pine for the good old days, they don't realize that in those days they couldn't travel like they do now. At that time flying was only done by the wealthy and the elite, not the plebes.

And students flying at half or a third off :)
 
That's why the kiosks at colleges in those days were filled with ads for people looking for rides and riders to various locales.

I remember getting a ride from Berkeley all the way to Daytona for $13.75 in gas contribution and 1/4 of the driving chores - we slept under the stars.

The good old days for sure :rofl:
 
We don't mind the small seats as much for flights shorter than 2-3 hours, but for longer flights, it's worth it to us to pay more for larger seats. We're flying to London in May, and booked Icelandair because they have an economy comfort class. It has bigger seats than coach, but no free booze, and a much smaller price tag than 1st class. For Hawaii we hunt and forage for deals on first class. We long for the days when Delta flew DC-10's to Hawaii. If you reserved seats early enough, you could get a window and isle next to each other, and not have some stranger falling asleep on your shoulder on the red eye flights.
 
And students flying at half or a third off :)

Even at a third to a half off it was still darn expensive. Only the kids from rich families got to fly home every break. For the working class students - if we couldn't find a ride home we stuck it out in the dorms or we took Greyhound or we couch-surfed.
 
Even at a third to a half off it was still darn expensive. Only the kids from rich families got to fly home every break. For the working class students - if we couldn't find a ride home we stuck it out in the dorms or we took Greyhound or we couch-surfed.

I used money from my job in the dishroom at the college cafeteria to buy student half-price tickets home from Wisconsin to Colorado.
 
I am slightly oversized to me anyway.I fit comfortably in my seat but have been known to hog the armrest. When we travel I sit by the window and lean against the window so I can stay in my own space. If travelling with DH we will put the arm rest up to share those few inches. If I am traveling alone I will roll my arms across my chest to be sure I stay in my space. When I (hopefully never) get bigger i will buy the extra ticket. But my peeved is all the carryon luggage. People who carry on everything so the don't have to pay baggage fees passing the.cost on to others. Holding up boarding and then brag about how much time and money they saved. They did but also at the expense of others. Their carryons are not weightless and cost money to transport take up room and encroach on the room others have paid for to store their one bag. I have had people move my bag so they could store all their luggage together. But since the bags don't elbow anyone I may be the only one who sees the similarity here. That and the bags don't fart. But some of them do smell.
 
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I am slightly oversized to me anyway.I fit comfortably in my seat but have been known to hog the armrest. When we travel I sit by the window and lean against the window so I can stay in my own space. If travelling with DH we will put the arm rest up to share those few inches. If I am traveling alone I will roll my arms across my chest to be sure I stay in my space. When I (hopefully never) get bigger i will buy the extra ticket. But my peeved is all the carryon luggage. People who carry on everything so the don't have to pay baggage fees passing the.cost on to others. Holding up boarding and then brag about how much time and money they saved. They did but also at the expense of others. Their carryons are not weightless and cost money to transport take up room and encroach on the room others have paid for to store their one bag. I have had people move my bag so they could store all their luggage together. But since the bags don't elbow anyone I may be the only one who sees the similarity here. That and the bags don't fart. But some of them do smell.

If we're talking about flying pet peeves, that would definately require an entire new thread
 
If we're talking about flying pet peeves, that would definately require an entire new thread

My pet peeves don't usually take wing - they just wander around the house unsatisfied. :doh:
 
I think we mollycoddle the tubbies.

Sure -- a very small percentage are morbidly obese because of a medical condition they have no control over.

Most of them are morbidly obese because they consume too many calories and don't exercise enough. And almost everyone in this category will blame their morbid obesity on a bogus medical condition. When in fact, if they'd go for a freakin' walk and lay off the buckets of extra crispy and ice cream, that fat would melt away quick.

We're so afraid of offending the first group of people, that we let the second group make our lives miserable.

You know what's worse than being stuck next to one of these lard-asses? Getting crammed in between two of them. Luckily, I am very good at talking the gate personnel into giving me better seats. So getting shoehorned in between two advanced sufferers of morbid biscuit toxicity is a rarity.

What I don't understand are the people who suggest that heathpack buy an additional seat. If a passenger fits in his or her assigned seat, why should he or she need to buy another? It's the morbidly obese passenger who needs more room. Let him or her buy a second ticket. They already spend more on food and healthcare. Why should they pay the same rate for air travel? For most of them, obesity is a choice. And for the ones who really do suffer from a medical condition, they should still understand why they have to pay more.

Like I said, we mollycoddle 'em.
 
I think we mollycoddle the tubbies.

Sure -- a very small percentage are morbidly obese because of a medical condition they have no control over.

Most of them are morbidly obese because they consume too many calories and don't exercise enough. And almost everyone in this category will blame their morbid obesity on a bogus medical condition. When in fact, if they'd go for a freakin' walk and lay off the buckets of extra crispy and ice cream, that fat would melt away quick.

We're so afraid of offending the first group of people, that we let the second group make our lives miserable.

You know what's worse than being stuck next to one of these lard-asses? Getting crammed in between two of them. Luckily, I am very good at talking the gate personnel into giving me better seats. So getting shoehorned in between two advanced sufferers of morbid biscuit toxicity is a rarity.

What I don't understand are the people who suggest that heathpack buy an additional seat. If a passenger fits in his or her assigned seat, why should he or she need to buy another? It's the morbidly obese passenger who needs more room. Let him or her buy a second ticket. They already spend more on food and healthcare. Why should they pay the same rate for air travel? For most of them, obesity is a choice. And for the ones who really do suffer from a medical condition, they should still understand why they have to pay more.

Like I said, we mollycoddle 'em.

I just today watched in awe as a 440 - 450 pound man served himself 4 massive plates full of chow at the Mongolian BBG - I was awestruck. 25 pounds of food in one setting !!!!!!!!!

Of course I mollycoddled him by getting out of his way :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:
 
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