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Now I think I have seen it all! [merged]

"self entitled snobs ...gravitate to name brands"
Wow! That's quite the sweeping stereotype!

While there are a few "self entitled snobs" at Ocean Pointe (my home resort), I must say that we have met some wonderful poeple (other Marriott Owners) at Ocean Pointe. I would never describe them as "self entitled snobs".

If we think this through, I guess you are not saying that '"All Marriott Owners are self entitled snobs." What you seem to be saying is that "All self entitled snobs gravitate to name brands". So...no "self entitled snobs" where you own?
 
"self entitled snobs ...gravitate to name brands"
Wow! That's quite the sweeping stereotype!

While there are a few "self entitled snobs" at Ocean Pointe (my home resort), I must say that we have met some wonderful poeple (other Marriott Owners) at Ocean Pointe. I would never describe them as "self entitled snobs".

If we think this through, I guess you are not saying that '"All Marriott Owners are self entitled snobs." What you seem to be saying is that "All self entitled snobs gravitate to name brands". So...no "self entitled snobs" where you own?

It has been my experience that the human population is composed of:

78% Loving, helpful, non self absorbed, hard working people.
4% self absorbed, self entitled, selfish, snobbish, get others to do the work types.
18% in flux - who play both sides depending on the circumstances.

The 4% "dark side" people can blend in with the other 96% at will - and might pop up anywhere - even poolside at a Marriott resort or at a resort where I own.

Or here :eek:

(PS the numbers I mentioned are from a lecture on business ethics at UC Berkeley)
 
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Kind of on one of the subjects of this tread on human nature. This summer at Marriott Ko Olina we went down for a day at the pool at 8:00 am. Lots of chairs with towels draped over them but very few people. We found 2 unclaimed chairs behind 2 other poolside chairs. We had our coffee. Then we had lunch and no one ever sat in the poolside chairs. About 2:00 pm the couple that "claimed" the chairs before 8:00am buy placing a towel and pair of shoes on each chair, came and took possession of the pool side chairs. They stayed 45 minutes, took their shoes but left the towels draped over the chairs, left and never came back. Fact is some people are just plain self centered and rude.

If you have been to Ko Olina on June, many people cannot find chairs by the pool, yet many are empty but "claimed" with a towel. It just irritates me how rude people can be.
 
Sue - Being serious now you are assuming that my so called crusade against Marriott (it is not by the way - I suspect ALL developer controlled resorts - name or no name it doesn't matter) is somehow wrong (as in non-factual). I see the statements such as "only a XXX brand timeshare can give me quality" as being the misstatements as I know for a fact it isn't true.

A recent thread here in the Marriott section is a great example. A question was raised by an owner about what can be on the table when the management is up for renewal. Some who apparently are blinded by a name jump in to say "you can't ask for lower fees (and other things) or Marriott will walk away!". THAT is a dangerous and totally incorrect statement. One too prevalent when only one view - that the mothership corporation, whoever that may be, is looking out for the members - is allowed to be the only voice in the woods.

It is the job of YOUR resort Board to question things and make demands when it's time to renegotiate the management agreement (just one of many examples). It is NOT in you best interest for them to simply rubber stamp whatever corporation X demands as some seem to think is necessary. It doesn't mean the current management has to be removed or changed but they need to know they work for the owners - not the other way around.

I fear the newbies / uninformed will believe the misrepresentations often fostered by all sales organizations. The examples above are certainly key ones and it takes years of ownership and often more involvement than most owners ever care to have to learn what is really going on and how things can be manipulated. It's hardly ever in the owners favor except for the great advice/insights from so many here on TUG. And much of it comes from opposing views based on real experience rather than perceptions.

No one - certainly not me - knows it all. I do have nearly 20 years of active participation in timesharing groups, as a HOA member and with many sales & management organizations. I have also owned a wide selection of resorts & systems including the name brands. My posts are certainly my take on all I've seen & learned over that time. In some cases I see pitfalls I wish I had been made aware of years ago without learning them through sometimes hard life lessons.

Fern, Dave, Spence and many others who were around when I first got interested used to try to pass on what they knew and we all learned together from those varied experiences. Much of what they said conflicted with "common sense" but it turns out timeshares don't subscribe to common sense - they truly are a tiny world of their own. TUG has done great making options known to squeeze the best value out. I hope my small contributions have added at least something to the mix. Limiting what you want to read or hear is your right but it may pay to at least think about a different take rather than just the party line every time.

I am very negative about Marriott in the future. I had 182 nights in 2011 between stays and credit card, obviously a platinum member, own a number of Marriotts, and the last 5 years have been horrible for this brand in my opinion, loss of rewards, raising maintenence fees, raising points for hotel stays, the new points system that allows them in the future to build cheaper resorts at higher point totals and sell the points at beautiful, established lower point resorts with no inventory, but gives the buyer a false promise. I have no confidence in the future of a system designed for the purpose of getting rid of undesirable, unsold inventory. It has been a rapid succession of devaluing what I own, get and use. I will still stay at Marriott over most places, but the last 5 years blew any myth I had that Marriott was different. It would probably be really depressing to look back 5 years ago and compare it to where we are today, and have the same thing happen over the next 5 years. What will HOA fees be? How many points for an hotel stay, maybe double the skim? Now they have spun off what they probably view as an anchor. Marriott was Great in so many ways, resorts , rewards, vacation packages etc, still good, but the direction is horrible.

I would expect chairs with cushions at A Marriott resort, but I would also suspect with the "new" Marriott, that the timeshare pays a premium to the hotel for the St Kitts services. I have not looked at the breakdown of the resort expenses, but you can tell from my post that I do not think Marriott and their BOD are looking out for the owners :)
 
I would expect chairs with cushions at A Marriott resort, but I would also suspect with the "new" Marriott, that the timeshare pays a premium to the hotel for the St Kitts services. I have not looked at the breakdown of the resort expenses, but you can tell from my post that I do not think Marriott and their BOD are looking out for the owners :)

This is something to remember. The property in St Kitts is a shared property with a privately owned hotel. I believe the hotel is responsible for the maintenance of the pools? So in order to have cushions for all the chairs, the HOA would also have to get buy in from the hotel ownership/management to purchase these goods. I would not expect the HOA to have to cover all of the expense of these items.

This also shows that when people make a statement, they don't always know all the facts...
 
Sue - Being serious now you are assuming that my so called crusade against Marriott (it is not by the way - I suspect ALL developer controlled resorts - name or no name it doesn't matter) is somehow wrong (as in non-factual). I see the statements such as "only a XXX brand timeshare can give me quality" as being the misstatements as I know for a fact it isn't true.

You make this statement, but your actions speak louder. While you indicate that you have this issue with all developers, you only seem to post these statements in the Marriott forum. Doing a search in the Starwood forum, there has only been one post made by you since the beginning of October 2011. There are a number more in the Hilton forum, it appears you didn't like the iPads for all HOA members :). I don't either, but that is another matter.

So while you state that your issue is with all name brands, you appear to continue to single out Marriott and Marriott owners?

I believe in being able so speak ones opinion, but lets be willing to also accept the opinions of others and not continue to belittle them.
 
Kind of on one of the subjects of this tread on human nature. This summer at Marriott Ko Olina we went down for a day at the pool at 8:00 am. Lots of chairs with towels draped over them but very few people. We found 2 unclaimed chairs behind 2 other poolside chairs. We had our coffee. Then we had lunch and no one ever sat in the poolside chairs. About 2:00 pm the couple that "claimed" the chairs before 8:00am buy placing a towel and pair of shoes on each chair, came and took possession of the pool side chairs. They stayed 45 minutes, took their shoes but left the towels draped over the chairs, left and never came back. Fact is some people are just plain self centered and rude.

If you have been to Ko Olina on June, many people cannot find chairs by the pool, yet many are empty but "claimed" with a towel. It just irritates me how rude people can be.

In the morning - say around 9 to 9:30 - I wait 30 to 45 mins and if the beds "claimed" by their absentee users have not been occupied then the towels are removed - replaced by mine and then by my rear end on the bed.
 
In the morning - say around 9 to 9:30 - I wait 30 to 45 mins and if the beds "claimed" by their absentee users have not been occupied then the towels are removed - replaced by mine and then by my rear end on the bed.

What's the rest of the story - what do you do when the ones who own the towels you moved come back?

Awkward silence?

Staredown?
 
MAL,
And, then what? What do the "absentee bums" say/do when they return & find you sitting in "their" chairs & their stuff having been replaced by yours?
Where do you put their stuff when you remove it? On another chair? On the ground? Or, what?

Once at Ocean Pointe, a man & woman left "their" chairs & went up to their villa just as we were arriving at the Kingfish pool. They took all of their stuff with them....books, towels, bags, etc. However, a little brochure...the kind of flyer you see in newspapers....was left on one of "their" chairs. We assumed it was garbage, threw it in the garbage can, sat down & settled in. Well.... a couple of hours later that couple returned to Kingfish pool. He came over to us & said " I can't believe you people! You took OUR chairs! We went to the villa for lunch. Then we come back and you are sitting here. We left a book on the chair so you should have known we were coming back. You have really upset my wife."
Well... we were speechless. I said "I am sorry, sir. You & your wife can sit here if you like. We will just move over there."
He just turned, angrily walked away and said "Don't bother. But you should know that you have really upset my wife".

Can you believe that?

What would you have done, MAL??:cool:
 
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I would have said "Sorry, you and your upset, chair-saving wife can look elsewhere for another spot."
 
Anyone wonder, how many of our compatriots here on TUG are one of those self-entitled, inconsiderate folks being described? Bet your bottom dollar that even some of the TUG veterans, who by all accounts may seem like great, sweet, mild-mannered people, are in fact chair-hording, pad-stealing gargoyles. They know who they are, and maybe, just maybe, they will change their ways as a result of this thread...
 
MAL,

What would you have done, MAL??:cool:

I can't speak for MAL but myself I have a personality with two sides. A mean side and a nice side. If the mean side comes out I would have,

A. Punched him in the nose
or
B. Pushed him in the pool
or
C. Kicked him in the crotch

Most often though I am able to control my emotions and the mean side stays hidden and the nice side comes out. In that case I would have just politely told him,

" Listen pal your wife is so ugly she scaring my grandchildren. She's exposing flesh that shouldn't have seen the light of day much past 1975. Take her back up to your room and stay there till I checkout."

Like I said it always pays to be polite and nice to people.
 
I'd have said, "Gosh, I didn't see anything with your name on it. If I had I would have selected another seat. How was lunch?"

Or depending on the situation, I might say "[Resort name] puts these lounges here for guests/owners use. Not to store unknown passerby's belongings. These were being used for storage and there are places for that".

'Course the response might hinge on whether the confronter is a 90 y.o. pushing a walker or some buff 25 y.o. clutching a long-neck Bud.

For those who want to be able to go for lunch or swim or restroom etc. and still want to 'save a seat', how about using one of those little plastic or cardboard clock faces with moveable hands that say 'Will Return At:'. People use them regularly in Europe for parking when there is a time limit for a space. Set your return time, put it on the seat to show it isn't abandoned and then come back when you say you will. If it's reasonable, I think people will honor it.

I am of course just speculating here. I don't go to resorts big enough that one has to jockey for a lounge and assume that a scrap of paper or towel will hold it indefinitely. If someone's bum is in it, it's occupied. If not, it's available.

The whole thing sounds like adults playing kindergarten games to me.

Jim
 
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I try not to let it aggravate me too much and will try to find an empty lounge chair. But if there are no "unsaved" lounges then I ask an employee to help me out. That way if/when the Entitled come back loaded for bear, I can just say, "that employee over there helped me, maybe s/he can help you, too."
 
I would have told him what makes them think they are entitled to "save" chairs and have them unoccupied for the majority of the day. They don't own the chairs. This is a problem which the property needs to address aggressively IMO. They don't want to antagonize guests so they look the other way.

At properties where this is a problem, there should be an insert in the "welcome" packet outlining the pool chair policy and that it will be strictly enforced. That way when their items are removed, they can't complain.:bawl:

Rude, entitled people can be found at any resort, but they know 9 times out of 10 they will get away with their behavior.
 
Once you have been in "real" life and death situations I think you can see the sillyness of opening a "Hatfield/McCoy" situation with a perfect stranger.

Just say "I saved this spot before you checked in, didn't you get the email?"

or after reading this thread I might well say:

"Hey, are you one of those "self absorbed snobs" mentioned on TUG? and then laugh.
 
I will say that the resorts in Hilton Head during summer seem to handle this well. If the employees do not see anyone there for a period of time they leave a note and then if still noone the employees remove the stuff.

When the other people come back and complain to you, I just tell them to talk to the man with the id tag right over there.
 
Thanks for all of your replies!
He looked to be older....maybe 20 years older....not using a walker but not "...some buff 25 y.o clutching a long-neck Bud" (nice visual). He & his wife looked really unhappy. I wondered if perhaps they were dealing with some recent personal loss or tragedy or if they were always that unhappy. Fortunately, we never did see them again @ OP after that week. However, we did have the awkwardness of encountering them a couple of times throughout the week.

At Ocean Pointe, they do include a reminder with the check-in materials that are given to each guest upon check-in to the effect that if you leave your chair unoccupied, Loss Prevention will remove your belongings. Ocean Pointe Management steadfastly maintains that they regularly enforce this policy but they do not. People know that. That's why they leave their stuff there.
 
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In a post 911 world it is adventurous to leave anything "laying around".

If you have a really mischievous nature you could say to the returning snobs

"Some government types were here nosing around, what exactly was in that stuff you left here?"

:eek:
 
Bottom line is that one person is not any more entitled to use/save/hog a pool lounge than the next person. If I see a chair that looks unoccupied but has a pool towel or other personal item, I will very loudly and annoyingly say "Is anyone using this chair?" If no one answers that is in the pool or in line at the snack bar, etc, I simply neatly organize anything that clearly doesn't belong to the hotel, and stick it somewhere nearby.

A hotel pool towel would simply be placed on the ground. If it was a beach towel someone brought, I fold it neatly and stick it on the landscaping ledge, over the fence, whatever. Ditto for any other personal items.

I am not going to disrespect their personal items, but they are taking a chance that they could lose those items by leaving them unattended for so long, not all people are as honest as I am.

You must be present to "occupy" a pool chair. Period. It's not complicated. These chair hoggers sure wouldn't like it if the situation was reversed and they came down and found 10 people using the pool and 100 chairs "saved". First come, first served.

That being said the only time it is acceptable to put your personal items in a "spot" to save it is during Chicago winters when you have dug a parking spot out after a snowstorm (those tuggers from here know what I mean). Those that steal those spots risk their cars being keyed.

If someone came up to me and said I took their pool chair and pointed at their personal items, I would simply point out that I called out before moving their stuff to ask if the chair was in use and no one responded. If they still have a problem, they can take it to the resort management, which of course they won't do. There's no way thay they are going to be able to justify leaving their stuff on a pool chair for hours on end without being present to use it. You can't ask for relief from the authorities if you don't have "clean hands". They were in the wrong to start off with.
 
I can't speak for MAL but myself I have a personality with two sides. A mean side and a nice side. If the mean side comes out I would have,

A. Punched him in the nose
or
B. Pushed him in the pool
or
C. Kicked him in the crotch

Most often though I am able to control my emotions and the mean side stays hidden and the nice side comes out. In that case I would have just politely told him,

" Listen pal your wife is so ugly she scaring my grandchildren. She's exposing flesh that shouldn't have seen the light of day much past 1975. Take her back up to your room and stay there till I checkout."

Like I said it always pays to be polite and nice to people.
JIM .. JUST HOPE THAT YOU NEVER STAY AT A RESORT THAT I AM STAYING AT. IF YOU DID A, B OR C TO ANYONE..THEY WOULD BE CALLING THE PADDY WAGON FOR YOU.. I AM 6'1, 285 AND USE TO BOX PROFESSIONLY.
SO JUST BE NICE TO EVERY ONE AND TREAT THEM LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.
 
JIM .. JUST HOPE THAT YOU NEVER STAY AT A RESORT THAT I AM STAYING AT. IF YOU DID A, B OR C TO ANYONE..THEY WOULD BE CALLING THE PADDY WAGON FOR YOU.. I AM 6'1, 285 AND USE TO BOX PROFESSIONLY.
SO JUST BE NICE TO EVERY ONE AND TREAT THEM LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

I think bragging about how much sunlight you block and what you used to do for a living is not real productive in this thread - unless you are trying to get it closed?

Besides unless you are the world champion boxer - you know dang well there is always someone who can "outbox" you ;)
 
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JIM .. JUST HOPE THAT YOU NEVER STAY AT A RESORT THAT I AM STAYING AT. IF YOU DID A, B OR C TO ANYONE..THEY WOULD BE CALLING THE PADDY WAGON FOR YOU.. I AM 6'1, 285 AND USE TO BOX PROFESSIONLY.
SO JUST BE NICE TO EVERY ONE AND TREAT THEM LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

All that weight and boxing skills ain't gonna help you if (C) happens. Matter of fact, immediately thereafter you would feel all of 5'2, 140 in heels. And perhaps even with (A) if in your former life you had a glass jaw.

P.S. What was your record by the way?
 
JIM .. JUST HOPE THAT YOU NEVER STAY AT A RESORT THAT I AM STAYING AT. IF YOU DID A, B OR C TO ANYONE..THEY WOULD BE CALLING THE PADDY WAGON FOR YOU.. I AM 6'1, 285 AND USE TO BOX PROFESSIONLY.
SO JUST BE NICE TO EVERY ONE AND TREAT THEM LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

DRJKN,

I knew someone would come along and drive home the point for me. The thing about confronting people is that you never know who you are confronting. It's very annoying to most of us that people go to resorts and feel that they can do whatever they like and deny the use of resort amenities to others just in case they might want to use them "sometime" during the day.

Although I actually meant to convey the idea that maybe the person they confronted might be me, you actually said it much more eloquently. I certainly wouldn't want to get in your face over a disagreement over a pool chair. I doubt many other TUGGERS would either.

The argument about hogging pool chairs has been going on since I joined TUG and I think it will keep going on forever. The guy that confronted SMOOTH AIR was wrong. He was the guy my post was aimed at. I was hoping some folks that act like that would read it, take a breath and say wait a minute, maybe that's who said he'd throw me in the pool. Now they have to worry about you too.

So DRJKN, if somebody confronts you like I did step back, take a breath and walk away. You're a big enough guy to do that. That's what SMOOTH AIR did although I don't think I would have offered up my chair so quickly. SMOOTH AIR had a anecdote to relate on TUG and went on with his vacation. The other guy is probably still fuming because he just couldn't step back, breathe and think things through for a second or two.

BTW, I see you have only 30 posts. Stick around awhile and you'll find out that I have a funny but sometimes strange sense of humor.
 
DRJKN/Jim:
You are both right!
DRJKN, you have to "know" Jim to see the humor in his post.

I like alexadeparis's approach: "Is anybody using these chairs?" I may try that one next time. If more of us did that, then people wld stop "hogging". Bottom line: Most of us are too nice. In retrospect, I was way too nice to "guy with brochure and unhappy wife".
 
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