New Website discussion

[CalGalTraveler]

I'm wondering if this is just more HGVC lip service :annoyed:

Fast forward to 2016, it seems like we're starting all over again with a new reservation system that still doesn't provide all of the functionality (including functionality that was added to Revolution )


This is just another good reason why folks shouldn't own multiple weeks in one timeshare system.

After trying to use the new system (and failing) for two midnights in a row, it is clear that this system is not a priority for transacting HGVC club reservations. It appears that they are prioritizing their resources as follows:

1) running well-maintained resorts with good service- as it should be.
2) retail sales - feed the beast.
3) To support retail sales, creating benefits for owning multiple aspirational properties instead of club points i.e. offering preferential "home resort" booking windows that are flexible e.g. The District (45 days). Grand Islander (6 mos), Houkulani (6 mos), W. 57th (45 days). Sadly I anticipate that Maui will fall into the same category.

Therefore online club bookings are not a priority. Owners of "home resorts" such as W57 have a free dedicated phone line to call so the system just needs to show club availability vs make the transaction. Owners can preferentially book their home resort without worrying about competition from the 9 month club booking window.

It seems that from the HGVC perspective, online club reservations are what their least profitable customers use. These are people who bought resale, maximize the system by purchasing cheap Vegas or Orlando to book more expensive resorts (e.g. Hawaii) etc. Devils advocate: Why should HGVC care? How does this set of customers make them more money than customers who purchase retail at premium properties? Doesn't HGVC collect more fees when such users call in a reservation?

 

[alwysonvac]

It seems that from the HGVC perspective, online club reservations are what their least profitable customers use. These are people who bought resale, maximize the system by purchasing cheap Vegas or Orlando to book more expensive resorts (e.g. Hawaii) etc. Devils advocate: Why should HGVC care? How does this set of customers make them more money than customers who purchase retail at premium properties? Doesn't HGVC collect more fees when such users call in a reservation?

You're wrong.

It doesn't matter where folks own. The HGVC system doesn't provide reservation flexibility until the Club Reservation Window where you can book any number of nights, in any unit size and type based on your desired check-in date. That's the concept their sales team sold potential buyers on.
Just a fyi I'm a Lagoon Tower owner

We don't have a Home Resort Week Window like your West 57th ownership.

Honestly, I really don't understand why any owner would make excuses for bad customer service. Having a fully functional reservation system that is simple, quick and easy to use should be one of their number one priorities. I should be able to login and book my reservation in the least amount of clicks.

Happy owners will continue to buy more HGVC weeks, upgrade and/or become Elite members. We've seen that on TUG.
However unhappy owners will leave and tell everyone that will listen about their unhappy experience and leave warnings for others

 

[Talent312]

...However unhappy owners will leave and tell everyone that will listen about their unhappy experience and leave warnings for others.

As crappy as the reservation system is, no other hotel-based system is quite as friendly to resale buyers (for now), so I'd think that many will stay for that reason alone. No matter how vexing the online experience, the grass may not be greener elsewhere.
.

 

[drbrandt]

As crappy as the reservation system is, there's not another hotel-based system quite as friendly to resale buyers (for now), so I'd think there'd be many who stay for that reason alone. No matter how vexing the online experience, the grass may not be greener elsewhere.
.

So true. In addition, I've found the new system to be more convenient to use because it runs as an app on my iPhone. That's where I do virtually all my reservations and reservation changes. Initially, the app didn't work, but in the last few months it has worked OK. The new interface is not as good for showing open reservations across resorts, but it at least works most of the time now.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You're wrong.

It doesn't matter where folks own. The HGVC system doesn't provide reservation flexibility until the Club Reservation Window where you can book any number of nights, in any unit size and type based on your desired check-in date. That's the concept their sales team sold potential buyers on.
Just a fyi I'm a Lagoon Tower owner

You are looking backwards as to how the system has historically worked. We need to look forward at the trend and how HGVC makes money and will likely prioritize their resources in the future. The addition of home resort weeks at Islander, Houkoulani, The District and (originally) W 57 is the trend. They only need to do "good enough" to manage their historic base. They are still honoring what they sold you 10 years ago. However no one guaranteed it would be easy.

From HGVC's perspective, other than maintenance fees (which are gamestakes) at older resorts, how does HGVC profit from resale customers other than assessing fees? How much in fees does it take to equal the profit from the sale of one retail customer at the Grand Islander? If you look at this from an HGVC business lens, you can begin to understand how these decisions are made.

 

[SmithOp]

You are looking backwards as to how the system has historically worked. We need to look forward at the trend and how HGVC makes money and will likely prioritize their resources in the future. The addition of home resort weeks at Islander, Houkoulani, The District and (originally) W 57 is the trend. They only need to do "good enough" to manage their historic base. They are still honoring what they sold you 10 years ago. However no one guaranteed it would be easy.



From HGVC's perspective, other than maintenance fees (which are gamestakes) at older resorts, how does HGVC profit from resale customers other than assessing fees? How much in fees does it take to equal the profit from the sale of one retail customer at the Grand Islander? If you look at this from an HGVC business lens, you can begin to understand how these decisions are made.

The funds from retail sales pays for the development and marketing/sales costs. Owners cover the ongoing costs with maintenance fees, so if its new or resale owners, makes no difference. If they want profit growth it comes from adding new sale offerings or funding the rofr program.


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[CalGalTraveler]

The funds from retail sales pays for the development and marketing/sales costs. Owners cover the ongoing costs with maintenance fees, so if its new or resale owners, makes no difference. If they want profit growth it comes from adding new sale offerings or funding the rofr program.


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True. They make a great profit when owners sell at bargain basement prices which fuels their ROFR inventory. If everyone bought resale the system would not work because HGVC would need to increase revenue via fees to existing owners or offering more inventory on HHonors etc. to meet their growth goals.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

HGVC like all companies has to make a profit. We would be kidding ourselves to think they would just do things if their was no benefit back to the company.

They need to attract new customers to buy retail from them. The new resorts cost a lot to build out. As an owner I like the fact they are adding new resorts. The can't add the new resorts without selling all those units at least once at retail. Every resale unit was original sold by HGVC at the retail price.

I am sure one of the objectives for the new website was to have an modern and contemporary look that is visually appealing. Having a great looking website has to be helpful to the sales process.

 

[alwysonvac]

As crappy as the reservation system is, no other hotel-based system is quite as friendly to resale buyers (for now), so I'd think that many will stay for that reason alone. No matter how vexing the online experience, the grass may not be greener elsewhere.
.

I understand your overall point that the reservation system alone will not discourage folks from leaving HGVC.
And thankfully, I'm now planning one big trip once every two to three years with my HGVC points and I've complete that task for 2017 so I'm good for a while

HGVC was considered more friendly to resale buyers because HGVC gave all resale owners the ability to convert their timeshare weeks into Hotel Reward points (unlike Marriott, Starwood and Hyatt). Back in the day this was a big deal however today after multiple hotel reward devaluations, not having access to the hotel conversion option is not a big deal anymore.

Each of the hotel-based systems has their PROs and CONs. It really depends on what folks are looking for such as locations, point based system, etc.
For example, Vistana (aka Starwood) now has a flexible point system similar to HGVC (8 months before check-in - any number of nights, in any size unit for any check-in day) - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219897 but they have their share of issues as well

 

[alwysonvac]

You are looking backwards as to how the system has historically worked. We need to look forward at the trend and how HGVC makes money and will likely prioritize their resources in the future. The addition of home resort weeks at Islander, Houkoulani, The District and (originally) W 57 is the trend. They only need to do "good enough" to manage their historic base. They are still honoring what they sold you 10 years ago. However no one guaranteed it would be easy.

From HGVC's perspective, other than maintenance fees (which are gamestakes) at older resorts, how does HGVC profit from resale customers other than assessing fees? How much in fees does it take to equal the profit from the sale of one retail customer at the Grand Islander? If you look at this from an HGVC business lens, you can begin to understand how these decisions are made.

Hokulani and Grand Islander are not the same as West 57th and The District.
West 57th, The District and the Residences follow the Hilton Club reservation model - See this Club Traveler article - http://clubtraveler.hgvclub.com/your-club/what-your-hilton-club
Hokulani and Grand Islander just have a shorter Club Reservation Window (6 months instead of 9 months before check-out). And I do expect expect Maui to follow this trend.

HGVC is the gift that keeps on giving.
As pointed out above, "Every resale unit was original sold by HGVC at the retail price." Hilton makes money off the original developer sale, any financing and the hotel management fees. They have ROFR on almost all of their properties which gives them the option to buy back weeks at reduce prices. If there is more demand than they currently have inventory for either reselling or renting they will execute ROFR otherwise they will let it go and continue to collect their mgmt fees. They are also well represented on the various HOAs to ensure the properties are maintained well enough for continuous sales.

Existing timeshare owners make up a good chunk of new sales
Timeshare developers are always after existing timeshare owners to attend an Owner Update or to pick up their resort package after checking in. So it's in their best interest to keep owners satisfied in hopes that they upgrade or addon to their existing purchase.
For example:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219758
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210111

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Hokulani and Grand Islander are not the same as West 57th and The District.
West 57th, The District and the Residences follow the Hilton Club reservation model - See this Club Traveler article - http://clubtraveler.hgvclub.com/your-club/what-your-hilton-club
Hokulani and Grand Islander just have a shorter Club Reservation Window (6 months instead of 9 months before check-out). And I do expect expect Maui to follow this trend.

Some people don't like to, or can't plan their travel so far in advance. The shorter reservation window probably works better for them.

As long as i know what the booking window is, i can work with six months. The 45 day window is more problematic for me. But i understand that Hilton Club is slightly different than HGVC, and adjust my plans accordingly.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I'm wondering if this is just more HGVC lip service
When did you receive this email response (before or after the "tick tock" notice)?

After the "Tick Tock" Notice and 3 e-mails back and forth from me and HGVC.

 

[Tamaradarann]

A lot of Negative Thoughts about HGVC!

There are a lot of negative thoughts expressed here about HGVC. I have been owner for 10 years and have been very satisfied with the system overall. The flexibility of the system is what sold me and I bought 6 units because of it and vacation about 120 days a year in Hiltons using points, open season, or Hilton Honors. If they destroy the flexibility of the system I will not longer be satisfied.

I have been very dissatisfied with the new website as I was with the introduction of the Revolution system since the Classic system worked fine as a reservation system. I have expressed my thoughts by e-mail and phone to HGVC at least 20 times over the last 8 years. I believe the last e-mail I received from HGVC was a revelation to me that the website was not primarily developed as a Reservation System. I have expectations that they will develop a good Reservation System. I know that they could fail me.

I will continue to be an HGVC advocate as long as I can book my 120 days a year where I want during the time I want. I understand that they are making the new resorts their priority because they are making big money on selling them. ie. I don't reserve the Grand Waikikian and 57th street since it takes so many points. However, if I can't reserve my 120 days a year where I want during the time I want I will sell my 6 units and give up HGVC.

 

[jestme]

Sorry, but to me, if they want a 45 day window to book their place, they should be limited to a 45 day window at HGVC resorts as well. The same rules of booking should apply to owners at all places that don't conform to the 9 month, 30 day open season HGVC standards, regardless of Elite. Whatever their rules are for reservations at their resort should be applied to them with their HGVC resort reservations as well. So, for example, 45 days for HGVC to reserve at their resort, means that they get to reserve HGVC resorts at 45 days as well.

 

[brp]

Sorry, but to me, if they want a 45 day window to book their place, they should be limited to a 45 day window at HGVC resorts as well. The same rules of booking should apply to owners at all places that don't conform to the 9 month, 30 day open season HGVC standards, regardless of Elite. Whatever their rules are for reservations at their resort should be applied to them with their HGVC resort reservations as well. So, for example, 45 days for HGVC to reserve at their resort, means that they get to reserve HGVC resorts at 45 days as well.

I can understand feeling that way. However, these other properties (at least W. 57th since I know and own that one) are quite a bit more expensive than the others - both direct and resale. Paying more for something simply gets more perks in the system. This is the way it has always bee, the way it is, the way it will continue to be and, IMO, the way it should be.

Just like airline frequent flier programs. I can buy the same ticket, at the same price, as someone else. But, because I have spent more in the past and have a higher status, I have a better chance for an upgrade.

Cheers.

 

[alwysonvac]

I can understand feeling that way. However, these other properties (at least W. 57th since I know and own that one) are quite a bit more expensive than the others - both direct and resale. Paying more for something simply gets more perks in the system. This is the way it has always bee, the way it is, the way it will continue to be and, IMO, the way it should be.

Just like airline frequent flier programs. I can buy the same ticket, at the same price, as someone else. But, because I have spent more in the past and have a higher status, I have a better chance for an upgrade.

Cheers.

Sorry, there are HGVC members who paid just as much as West 57th owners if not more.

Here are some examples
HGVC West 57th 2007 Developer Prices $30K to $88K - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49953 & http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=333532&postcount=1
HGVC Sunrise Lodge 2012 Developer prices $24K to $92K - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184181
HGVC Grand Waikikian 2008 Developer prices $45K to $300K - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87403 & http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=345397&postcount=1
HGVC Kings Land 2008 Developer Prices $23K to $95K - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=504532&postcount=20
HGVC Grand Islander 2014 Developer Prices $30K to $200K+ - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220477


The only reason New York resale and direct prices have increased is due to HGVC's decision to get back into the sales game in New York.
HGVC bought back NY inventory at greatly reduced resale prices and started reselling them along with adding new inventory (the Residence by Hilton Club). Before Hilton made that decision there was lots of NY inventory at reduced prices via resale (see below).

The following is from Sept 2010 thread "$20K for 7,000 at Hilton Club New York?" -
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130671

Judy has 22 Hilton Club NY listings and 14 W57th St listings on her site.
http://www.judikoz.com/Search.aspx (search by STATE)

but no one should expect resale bargains on the w57 street location because it's still new.

Look at everything Judy has listed. There are others listed for less than $10K (remember these are asking prices). For example:
MLS# 11066 - 7,000 pt annual for $6500
MLS# 10650 - 7,000 pt annual for $8750
MLS# 10321 - 7,000 pt annual for $8800
MLS# 10436 - 7,000 pt annual for $9500
MLS# 10896 - 9,000 pt annual for $10000
MLS# 9110 - 9,000 pt annual for $11000
MLS# 10751 - 9,000 pt annual for $11250

The following is from an April 2013 thread "Timeshare newbie bought West 57th!". They bought 3750 points at $42,000 - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1446827

Here are some resale listings from one of our recommended TUG Resale agents for West 57th Street - http://judikoz.com/Search.aspx
MLS #14578 - asking price $14K for 3750 HGVC points
MLS #14842 - asking price $14K for 3750 HGVC points
MLS #12593 - asking price $20K for 3750 HGVC points
MLS #15087 - asking price $25K for 5250 HGVC points
MLS #11897 - asking price $30K for 5250 HGVC points
MLS #14878 - asking price $33K for 5250 HGVC points

NOTE: Hilton also has another older property in NYC called the Hilton Club with even lower resale prices.

 

[jestme]

I can understand feeling that way. However, these other properties (at least W. 57th since I know and own that one) are quite a bit more expensive than the others - both direct and resale. Paying more for something simply gets more perks in the system. This is the way it has always bee, the way it is, the way it will continue to be and, IMO, the way it should be.

Just like airline frequent flier programs. I can buy the same ticket, at the same price, as someone else. But, because I have spent more in the past and have a higher status, I have a better chance for an upgrade.

Cheers.

Using your philosophy, (that paying more got people more benefits), then people who own in Hawaii should get more benefits than people who own in Vegas or Orlando as well, besides home season advantage. But we don't. We are all equal when it comes to the club, except you. For the little more you paid, you get home season advantage like the rest of us, your club has major restrictions for the rest of us to book, extra fees if a non owner uses it, your seasons are ridiculously short for trading, as well as us being exempt from some of the perks there. What I am saying is that if those are the rules at your club, then your access to the rest of the system should be the same as what your rules are. The rest of us trade evenly, and so should you. If you want different rules for us, then you should expect the same rules in return.

 

[Jason245]

I don't think this has anything to do with giving perks. I think the route cause of this is... the new Web site is a selling tool not a reservation tool. They are getting rid of 2 websites (selling one and reservations one) and instead having 1 Web site for both. As you can imagine, the sales team has more pull on website features than the current owners. What we need to do is start using the resort comments and review page and start putting reduced ratings due to reservation issues (the one place we can make comments that impact sales).. remember wastegate doesn't care about a deed after they sell it and neither does hgvc, or any other ts company, .. as a new public company, hgvc can go either way(wastegate or historic hgvc) unless we make our voices heard.

A more powerful way to do that is to collectively buy stock in the new company and actually get someone who represents owners onto the new board of directors.

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[alwysonvac]

Is it fair? Of course not.

Using your philosophy, (that paying more got people more benefits), then people who own in Hawaii should get more benefits than people who own in Vegas or Orlando as well, besides home season advantage. But we don't. We are all equal when it comes to the club, except you. For the little more you paid, you get home season advantage like the rest of us, your club has major restrictions for the rest of us to book, extra fees if a non owner uses it, your seasons are ridiculously short for trading, as well as us being exempt from some of the perks there. What I am saying is that if those are the rules at your club, then your access to the rest of the system should be the same as what your rules are. The rest of us trade evenly, and so should you. If you want different rules for us, then you should expect the same rules in return.

I completely understand the frustration. It's basically one more person to compete with at the 9 month mark when we don't have the same equal access.

But I think it's HGVC's way of getting HGVC members to buy into these exclusive Hilton Club resorts vs trading in. Since these are located in high demand areas, it also ensures availability is there for Home Resort owners instead of being gobbled up early on by the 100K+ HGVC members. The limited Club Reservations windows allows some HGVC members to try out the experience and some may even consider buying.

Again, I'm not saying it's fair especially due to the extremely short window (approximately 6 weeks before check-in) but this seems to be the way HGVC is going.

 

[alwysonvac]

Squeaky Wheel

I don't think this has anything to do with giving perks. I think the route cause of this is... the new Web site is a selling tool not a reservation tool. They are getting rid of 2 websites (selling one and reservations one) and instead having 1 Web site for both. As you can imagine, the sales team has more pull on website features than the current owners. What we need to do is start using the resort comments and review page and start putting reduced ratings due to reservation issues (the one place we can make comments that impact sales).. remember wastegate doesn't care about a deed after they sell it and neither does hgvc, or any other ts company, .. as a new public company, hgvc can go either way(wastegate or historic hgvc) unless we make our voices heard.

A more powerful way to do that is to collectively buy stock in the new company and actually get someone who represents owners onto the new board of directors.

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Yeah, I agree. I don't recall seeing any complaints on the HGVC facebook page.
HGVC members need to make complaints beyond just input@hgvc.com to make sure management is aware.
HGVC members need to call, write, post comments, etc to get attention.

HGVC Executives - http://www.hiltongrandvacationsmediacenter.com/index.cfm/page/11003

Mark Wang
President
mwang@hgvc.com
http://portal.arda.org/content/directory/page/0031300.pdf


Similar to what we've done in the past...

HGVC only made Revolution ADA compliant and took down Classic in 2012
Tried to make a new reservation today. Classic system is gone (April 2012) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168832
Classic Reservation System is coming back in the interim (Nov 2012) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181745
Classic is BACK! (March 2013) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076

HGVC made major increases to 2015 Open Season Rates
Open Season Rates no longer a good deal!!(Dec 2014) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220231
Crucial change to HGVC - We must take action, stand together and be heard (Dec 2014) - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221136
Urgent update - we took action! We stood together & hgvc acted (Jan 2015) - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221714

 

[cpepdan]

The new site is a joke. Just tried to book next June and it let me get all the way through and then said call a club counselor there was a problem. So I went to the old site and booked it. Annoying. And I am sure they would have charged the extra call in fee to make the reservation.

And now I'm sending email and calls to the brass.

Glad we all work hard for their money.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

This is a devaluation

But I think it's HGVC's way of getting HGVC members to buy into these exclusive Hilton Club resorts vs trading in. Since these are located in high demand areas, it also ensures availability is there for Home Resort owners instead of being gobbled up early on by the 100K+ HGVC members. The limited Club Reservations windows allows some HGVC members to try out the experience and some may even consider buying.

You are absolutely right. Sadly, the net effect of the reduced club booking windows is a DEVALUATION of the entire HGVC system for all owners (old AND new).

a) For current owners who cannot gain access to the newer resorts in a reasonable timeframe (45 days is a joke) and with the sky-high point structure.

b) for retail buyers of these newer home resorts who also will realize limited club access. At retail prices, they paid a lot of money yet cannot easily trade into the newer resorts beyond their home resort. This is a devaluation to them as well.

 

[Tamaradarann]

What Browser are you Using?

The new site is a joke. Just tried to book next June and it let me get all the way through and then said call a club counselor there was a problem. So I went to the old site and booked it. Annoying. And I am sure they would have charged the extra call in fee to make the reservation.

And now I'm sending email and calls to the brass.

Glad we all work hard for their money.

I have complained about making and changing reservations on the new website as much as anyone. However, today I found out something about the new website that I didn't know.

I was stumped about how to change reservations smoothly. Every time I tried to do it I either couldn't do it at all or when I spent about 10 minutes trying different clicks I was able to do it but it didn't seem right or intuitive. I called the call center today and asked the call desk associate that handled my call to give me specific directions on how to change a reservation. I couldn't do what she was doing, on my MacBook Air it didn't display what she saw and I wasn't able to follow her all the way to completing the reservation change. My Browser was Safari and I have used it to make and change reservations on the old website for many years.

The call desk associate asked me if I had a different computer that I could use to try to change the reservation. I have an old HP desktop that I use occasionally and has Google Chrome as a Browser. So I did what she said and was able to follow her instructions to complete the reservation change. Apparently the new website can do somethings but not change reservation effectively using a Safari Browser.

I offer this as a possible solution to problems that others may be having with the new website. My problem was changing reservations with Safari, however, Safari or other Browsers may have problems doing other things which are frustrating to other members. Good Luck

 

[SmithOp]

I discovered a bug today when borrowing points, the transaction would not complete, I have to call in tomorrow when they open.

I was trying to book May, 2017 at King's Land using up my 2017 points and borrowing from 2017. I noticed in the point summary it showed 2017 correctly using the rest of my points. The borrowed year was still listed as 2017 and the point total was negative (in red).


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[alwysonvac]

I discovered a bug today when borrowing points, the transaction would not complete, I have to call in tomorrow when they open.

I was trying to book May, 2017 at King's Land using up my 2017 points and borrowing from 2017. I noticed in the point summary it showed 2017 correctly using the rest of my points. The borrowed year was still listed as 2017 and the point total was negative (in red).


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I reported something similar back on August 15 to input@hgvc.com.

The new reservation system somehow got confused and started displaying negative balances in 2017 and strange transaction subtotals (values that didn't add up to the total points refunded or points used).

For example, my Point Summary was displaying:

Remaining Points (2016) 0
Remaining Points (2017) -400
Saved Points (2017) 400
Remaining Points (2017) 1645

I was changing multiple reservations that morning and by the time I was finished the Point Summary page was displaying correct results.

Remaining Points (2016) 0
Remaining Points (2017) 0
Remaining Points (2017) 645

Here's the reply I received on 8/16

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have made our IT team aware of this error that is showing online. I have reviewed your account, it appears the system is taking the correct points just online mentions the wrong number.

This will be corrected as soon as possible.

Thankfully, this only happened that one morning (8/15). All other changeable reservations before and after were fine.
The browser I've been using is Google Chrome.