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New scientific paper: offshore wind turbines alter marine eco-system, could shift ocean currents

STEG PV-TEG tech article from Science Direct: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038092X23001366

It's too early to tell if STEG will take hold and be scalable. The issue at present is the conversion is expensive. There was a recent breakthrough that Science Daily published in Aug 2025 here: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/08/250824031542.htm

Still remains to be seen if it's scalable and cost effective for hybrid panels. That's the thing with a lot of new tech, whether solar or batteries, lots of innovation, but 99% of the inventions aren't scalable, efficient enough, and/or cost effective, and therefore they never get out of the lab environment basically. I track battery tech pretty closely, and this is mostly the case with battery tech improvements of late. There's some really cool battery tech innovations, but no one can figure out how to make them work at scale for mass manufacturing in a cost effective manner.
If just .2% of the "laboratory breakthroughs" regarding things like Lithium and Sodium batteries had worked

We would have flying cars with a 10 Kilos of batteries
Energy densities would be massive
They would recharge in 2 minutes
Would recycle when worn out for pennies per kilo

I got caught with hydrogen and the Toyota Mirai in early 2016
Leased one and drove it with what fuel was in the tank
About 100 miles
Then there was no hydrogen available to fuel the car
I waited 30 days and still no hydrogen
I was able to break the lease and give the car back to Toyota after some harsh emails and phone calls
Recovered all but the licensing fees
But that taught me a lot about lab "breakthroughs"
The good news was I recognized the "The hot air" coming from NKLA (Nikola Trucks) and hydrogen when they went public
Sold it short and did very well
 
I got caught with hydrogen and the Toyota Mirai in early 2016
Leased one and drove it with what fuel was in the tank
About 100 miles

Big Island runs their public bus system on H2. They won't let residents purchase H2 for H2 cars.

And although one of the local gazillionares has promised for years that "Aloha Hydrogen" was right around the corner, I'm very glad I didn't buy a cheap-as-chips Mirai and ship it over.
 
CESS = Commercial Energy Storage System - basically commercial scale battery storage. It's at least somewhat telling that you haven't heard about CESS considering the amount of investment in CESS over the past five plus years from all major commercial power companies.



]
While I have not seen anyone use that term, I correctly concluded you were talking about the big lithium batteries that keep catching on fire (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia. . .) and pumped hydro. I have posted links on how those just don't work out. Heck, I even remember a video by Bill Gates, back when he was a climate scold, about how battery storage would not work in practical application, using the power supply of Tokyo as an example.
 
Much like your post, lol.

Currently, the thermo electrical power generated at night with these panels are close to 25% of the power generated during the day. As this tech gets dialed in these types of solar panels will dominate the current panels because they produce more electricity which creates a higher ROI.

Bill
Bifacial panels generate 25% at night. 😂🤣😅😂😭
 
While I have not seen anyone use that term, I correctly concluded you were talking about the big lithium batteries that keep catching on fire (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia. . .) and pumped hydro. I have posted links on how those just don't work out. Heck, I even remember a video by Bill Gates, back when he was a climate scold, about how battery storage would not work in practical application, using the power supply of Tokyo as an example.


Heck, I remember when batteries were everywhere !


battery2.jpg


battery.jpg
 
I am giving up on this thread. Carolinian can just stew in his own misery., The good news is that people are voting with their feet (actually wallets) and switching to renewable fuels. Nothing Carolinian says and does will change that. People are voting against him.

Adios...
That is not how people are voting in the real world.

In my own county, when a developer decided to put a large solar farm on some of the best farmland in eastern North Carolina, the community was outraged and turned out in mass to the county commission to demand they stop it. The woman leasing them the land became a pariah in the community. The county attorney advised that not having passed a county solar ordinance as state law allows, they did not have tools to stop it. They then passed such an ordinance and there have been no more of them trying under the county's jurisdiction. Occaisionally there are attempts to build them within the extraterritorial zones of smaller towns, but big crowds turn out to Planning Board meetings and those go down the drain, too.

In the National Register Historic District in which I live, someone had solar panels installed on his roof over a weekend. There were numerous citizen complaints and the Historic Preservation Commission voted unanimously to make him remove them. That was fortunate because during the removal it was discovered that the way they were set up with their election connections could have burned his house down.

In terms of real voting, one can look at the last provincial election in Ontario, Canada, that country's most populous province. The governing party had pushed wind and solar hard, but many local governments had passed resolutions that they were "unwilling hosts" of wind and solar. The new leader of the main opposition party decided to make strong opposition to wind and solar his main campaign issue. That propelled him to one of the biggest landslides in Canadian history, flipping a 2 to 1 majority of the previous governing party over his to a 10 to 1 majority for his own party over the previous governing party. The first act of the new government was to cancel all wind and solar applications for permits that were pending. Then they repealed the Green Energy Act and restored local government control over wind and solar "farms". Next, they started cancelling wind and solar projects that were already under construction.

Then there is the recent election in the Czech Republic, where the main opposition party won a big victory with its leader making opposition to EU climate policy one of his two top issues, calling it "green madness". One of his two coalition partners is a brand new party that was organized around the main goal of opposing EU climate policy.

Then you can look at polling. The party that has a double digit lead in British polls for months calls the Net Zero CO2 policy of the current government "Net Stupid" and wants to end it. One of the two parties jockeying for second place also recently officially came out against Net Zero.

Then there is Germany, where the party that has been leading in the polls calls for removal of all the wind turbines in the country. Parties hostile to EU climate policy also lead in the polls in France and Austria, as do the two parties almost certain to jointly win the next Polish election according to the polls.

And who can forget all the mass protests by farmers, starting in the Netherlands and spreading over much of Europe against EU climate policy, which the farmers dubbed "Climate Communism".

When you look at real world voters, the climate industrial complex is not doing so well.
 
That is not how people are voting in the real world.

In my own county, when a developer decided to put a large solar farm on some of the best farmland in eastern North Carolina, the community was outraged and turned out in mass to the county commission to demand they stop it. The woman leasing them the land became a pariah in the community. The county attorney advised that not having passed a county solar ordinance as state law allows, they did not have tools to stop it. They then passed such an ordinance and there have been no more of them trying under the county's jurisdiction. Occaisionally there are attempts to build them within the extraterritorial zones of smaller towns, but big crowds turn out to Planning Board meetings and those go down the drain, too.

In terms of real voting, one can look at the last provincial election in Ontario, Canada, that country's most populous province. The governing party had pushed wind and solar hard, but many local governments had passed resolutions that they were "unwilling hosts" of wind and solar. The new leader of the main opposition party decided to make strong opposition to wind and solar his main campaign issue. That propelled him to one of the biggest landslides in Canadian history, flipping a 2 to 1 majority of the previous governing party over his to a 10 to 1 majority for his own party over the previous governing party. The first act of the new government was to cancel all wind and solar applications for permits that were pending. Then they repealed the Green Energy Act and restored local government control over wind and solar "farms". Next, they started cancelling wind and solar projects that were already under construction.

Then there is the recent election in the Czech Republic, where the main opposition party won a big victory with its leader making opposition to EU climate policy one of his two top issues, calling it "green madness". One of his two coalition partners is a brand new party that was organized around the main goal of opposing EU climate policy.

Then you can look at polling. The party that has a double digit lead in British polls for months calls the Net Zero CO2 policy of the current government "Net Stupid" and wants to end it. One of the two parties jockeying for second place also recently officially came out against Net Zero.

Then there is Germany, where the party that has been leading in the polls calls for removal of all the wind turbines in the country. Parties hostile to EU climate policy also lead in the polls in France and Austria, as do the two parties almost certain to jointly win the next Polish election according to the polls.

And who can forget all the mass protests by farmers, starting in the Netherlands and spreading over much of Europe against EU climate policy, which the farmers dubbed "Climate Communism".

When you look at real world voters, the climate industrial complex is not doing so well.
I feel sorry for the British
I remember we use to say
Q: "Why do the Brits drink warm beer"
A: "Because Lucas Electrics makes their refrigerators"

The British have fouled up their nuclear electrical generation badly
They have expended Billions and have nothing to show for it but nuclear reactor projects so far behind the projected timeline it is really sad

So in Eastern North Carolina it is ok to deprive a private landowner of the right to do whatever she wants with the property
That is definitely government overreach
 
Bifacial panels generate 25% at night. 😂🤣😅😂😭

You may not realize the current use of thermal electrical generator technology. Heat generated from the body can power devices like watches and other wearables. Sieko has a watch that uses this tech since the 90's.

Bill
 
I feel sorry for the British
I remember we use to say
Q: "Why do the Brits drink warm beer"
A: "Because Lucas Electrics makes their refrigerators"

The British have fouled up their nuclear electrical generation badly
They have expended Billions and have nothing to show for it but nuclear reactor projects so far behind the projected timeline it is really sad

So in Eastern North Carolina it is ok to deprive a private landowner of the right to do whatever she wants with the property
That is definitely government overreach

If counties enact tough solar and wind ordinances, they can make it very unappealing for solar and wind developers to try to build projects, and counties all over the state have that power.

One of the things that all such ordinances should do is to require a decommissioning bond for any wind and solar project to cover clean up costs when they wear out. That protects the landowner and the taxpayers from being stuck with that cost, and it will send solar and wind developers running to find somewhere else to build in a hurry.

Wind and solar projects are unpopular with many county commissioners because the state does not allow them to tax the turbines or solar panels with county ad valorem property taxes. Also when other county taxpayers find out these big out of town corporate wind and solar developers are exempt from those taxes, it makes wind and solar REAL unpopular with taxpayers.
 
If counties enact tough solar and wind ordinances, they can make it very unappealing for solar and wind developers to try to build projects, and counties all over the state have that power.

One of the things that all such ordinances should do is to require a decommissioning bond for any wind and solar project to cover clean up costs when they wear out. That protects the landowner and the taxpayers from being stuck with that cost, and it will send solar and wind developers running to find somewhere else to build in a hurry.

Wind and solar projects are unpopular with many county commissioners because the state does not allow them to tax the turbines or solar panels with county ad valorem property taxes. Also when other county taxpayers find out these big out of town corporate wind and solar developers are exempt from those taxes, it makes wind and solar REAL unpopular with taxpayers.


Of course, any regime with "power" can make it economically difficult for consumers.


Hopefully that won't happen in the good ole USA ;)


coal (1).jpg






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sub.jpg






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I feel sorry for the British
I remember we use to say
Q: "Why do the Brits drink warm beer"
A: "Because Lucas Electrics makes their refrigerators"

I feel sorry for the British because, as mentioned in a previous link, Net Zero has tripled their power prices.
 
If counties enact tough solar and wind ordinances, they can make it very unappealing for solar and wind developers to try to build projects, and counties all over the state have that power.

One of the things that all such ordinances should do is to require a decommissioning bond for any wind and solar project to cover clean up costs when they wear out. That protects the landowner and the taxpayers from being stuck with that cost, and it will send solar and wind developers running to find somewhere else to build in a hurry.

Wind and solar projects are unpopular with many county commissioners because the state does not allow them to tax the turbines or solar panels with county ad valorem property taxes. Also when other county taxpayers find out these big out of town corporate wind and solar developers are exempt from those taxes, it makes wind and solar REAL unpopular with taxpayers.
We need decommissioning bonds on all energy projects

The number of old oil wells left to contaminate land and water is a crime

I thought you were a man of conservative principles
Any abridgement of property rights of an individual by government is frowned upon

I remember these types of battles over roads, shopping centers, golf courses and now wind farms

Here in North Dakota, the fight is over who gets the payments
"Why don't you put a tower on my land"
"Why does he get 3 towers and I get none"
The yearly payments are good

Pipelines are loved
"If they spill on my property"
"I will retire on the settlement payment"
 
Of course, any regime with "power" can make it economically difficult for consumers.


Hopefully that won't happen in the good ole USA ;)


View attachment 119173





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View attachment 119174





.

You must have posted that same undocumented nonsense 20 times. Don't you know how to post a link? Or not constantly post the same material over and over and over again?

Communities do not want these things in their community, and it is good that local government has tools to stop them. My county has a solar ordinance which has been strong enough to keep them out so far after that first one got in, but it would be nice to strengthen it even more.
 
We need decommissioning bonds on all energy projects

The number of old oil wells left to contaminate land and water is a crime

I thought you were a man of conservative principles
Any abridgement of property rights of an individual by government is frowned upon

I remember these types of battles over roads, shopping centers, golf courses and now wind farms

Here in North Dakota, the fight is over who gets the payments
"Why don't you put a tower on my land"
"Why does he get 3 towers and I get none"
The yearly payments are good

Pipelines are loved
"If they spill on my property"
"I will retire on the settlement payment"
They weren't so popular in Ontario in the last election and voters overwhelmingly said NO to them. Or in the Czech Republic.

In our Historic District we have historic zoning that requires the exterior of houses to keep their historic character. It protects my property values when my neighbor cannot screw up the looks of his property. It is a lot like other zoning or like restrictive covenants out in the county where there is no zoning.

The way most wind and solar farms work is that the developer leases the land and builds them, and then they get transferred to an LLC that has no assets other than the wind turbines or solar panels. When they wear out, they can walk away and leave the landowner or taxpayer saddled with cleanup costs.
 
While I have not seen anyone use that term, I correctly concluded you were talking about the big lithium batteries that keep catching on fire (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia. . .) and pumped hydro. I have posted links on how those just don't work out. Heck, I even remember a video by Bill Gates, back when he was a climate scold, about how battery storage would not work in practical application, using the power supply of Tokyo as an example.
Let's see what AI has to say about your perspective. While based in truth, you're exaggerating for effect to support your own narrative, which IME is very typical of you on this forum, and ignoring the v2 and v3 LFP batteries that have markedly lower (near zero) fire risks when compared to older installations (v1). Again, no technology - including fossil fuel extraction and usage, is perfect, all have pros and cons, and therefore an "all of the above" strategy is best.


Q: Regarding CESS - is the following statement accurate - please provide a bullet list summary and a detailed analysis as to why or why not: While I have not seen anyone use the term CESS, I correctly concluded you were talking about the big lithium batteries that keep catching on fire (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia. . .) and pumped hydro. I have posted links on how those just don't work out. Heck, I even remember a video by Bill Gates, back when he was a climate scold, about how battery storage would not work in practical application, using the power supply of Tokyo as an example.

A:

Summary of Accuracy
  • CESS Definition and Scope: Accurate—CESS typically refers to large-scale commercial or containerized energy storage systems, primarily lithium-ion batteries for grid/commercial use, and the poster's inference includes pumped hydro as a complementary storage method.
  • Lithium Battery Fires: Mostly accurate—Multiple documented fires at large-scale facilities in the cited locations (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia) have occurred, supporting the claim of recurring issues, though the phrasing "keep catching on fire" exaggerates frequency relative to total deployments (hundreds of GW installed globally without incident).
  • Critiques of Storage Viability: Partially accurate—Links/critiques exist on limitations of both batteries (e.g., fire risks, scalability) and pumped hydro (e.g., high costs, environmental impacts), but claims of "just don't work out" are subjective and overlook successes (e.g., widespread deployment aiding grid stability).
  • Bill Gates Video/Reference: Accurate—Gates has publicly discussed battery storage impracticality using Tokyo's energy demands as an example in videos/interviews (e.g., 2019 clip on storage breakthroughs and a 2018 podcast rant), framing it as a major hurdle for renewables.
Detailed Analysis

The statement from the forum post reflects a skeptical view on centralized energy storage, tying into broader debates on renewable integration. While rooted in real events and expert commentary, it employs rhetorical flair (e.g., "climate scold," "just don't work out") that introduces subjectivity. Below, I dissect each element for factual grounding, drawing on verified incidents, studies, and sources up to December 2025.1. Interpretation of "CESS" as Big Lithium Batteries and Pumped Hydro
  • Accuracy: High. CESS commonly stands for "Commercial Energy Storage System" or "Containerized Energy Storage System," which are modular, large-scale setups (often 100 kW–MW scale) using lithium-ion batteries to store excess renewable energy for grid discharge.

    pisenenergy.com
    These systems are "big" by design, housed in shipping containers for scalability in commercial/industrial applications like solar farms or peak shaving.

    gsl-energy.com
    The poster's admission of unfamiliarity with the acronym is plausible in casual discourse, but their conclusion aligns well—lithium-ion dominates CESS (e.g., NMC or LFP chemistries for high density).

    cdssolar.com
  • Pumped Hydro Inclusion: Reasonable extension. While CESS is battery-centric, energy storage discussions often pair it with pumped hydro storage (PHS), the world's largest form (~95% of global capacity at 180 GW as of 2025), which uses reservoirs to store gravitational energy.

    flex.com
    (Note: describes a capacitive variant, but context fits broader storage.) This isn't a misinterpretation but a holistic view of non-fossil alternatives.
  • Why It Holds: In the forum thread context (TUG BBS, post #478), CESS likely meant centralized/large-scale storage, and the poster's inference captures the intent without error.
2. Claim of Lithium Batteries "Keep Catching on Fire" with Specific Examples
  • Accuracy: Substantiated but overstated. Large-scale lithium-ion fires are rare (~0.0001% of installations per DOE data through 2025), but high-profile incidents validate the examples, fueling public concerns. Thermal runaway (self-sustaining heat escalation) in dense packs is a known risk, exacerbated by manufacturing defects, overcharging, or impacts.

    jensenhughes.com
    Globally, fires have prompted regulations (e.g., Belgium's 2024 decree gaps).

    jensenhughes.com
  • Breakdown by Location:
    • Belgium: Confirmed—2017 fire at a 1 MW/2 MWh grid-connected system in Drogenbos (cause unknown after investigation); 2018 incident at Elia’s ESS park.

      cfpa-e.eu +1
      A 2025 plug-in hybrid explosion in Izegem damaged apartments, tied to battery failure.

      youtube.com
    • South Korea: Well-documented—2024 Aricell factory blaze killed 23, sparked by exploding batteries in a warehouse.

      en.wikipedia.org
      2025 NIRS data center fire (LG Energy Solution batteries, installed 2012) destroyed 384 units, crippling 647 government systems for days via thermal runaway during maintenance.

      networkworld.com +2
      Korea reported 55 UPS-related fires (2018–2022).

      networkworld.com
    • California: Recent and severe—January 2025 Moss Landing (Vistra's 300 MW facility, world's largest) fire released toxic metals (nickel, cobalt, manganese) into Elkhorn Slough, causing health issues (e.g., rashes) and prompting EPA's biggest lithium cleanup.

      sfgate.com +3
      It raised nationwide regulatory scrutiny.

      npr.org
    • Australia: Escalating—94 lithium fires in Western Australia (Jan–Aug 2025) vs. 49 for all 2020, from e-bikes/tools but including grid-scale.

      abc.net.au
      2023 Tesla Megapack fire at Bouldercombe (50 MW); January 2025 Melbourne warehouse blaze consumed 3,000 LFP batteries with explosions.

      energy-storage.news +1
      Community concerns spiked for projects like Wooreen.

      internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com
  • Why Partial: Incidents are real and underscore risks (e.g., hard-to-extinguish "let it burn" protocols), but mitigations like spacing, cooling, and LFP chemistry have reduced rates. Over 1 TWh of battery storage deployed globally by 2025 with improving safety records.
3. "Links on How Those Just Don't Work Out"
  • Accuracy: Subjective but defensible. The poster references prior posts with links critiquing storage—common in forums like TUG BBS. For batteries: Fire risks, supply chain (lithium mining), and degradation (20–30% capacity loss over 10 years) are valid hurdles.

    jensenhughes.com
    For pumped hydro: ~$2–4M/MW costs, long build times (5–10 years), and ecological damage (e.g., reservoir flooding) limit scalability; only 10 GW added globally since 2010.

    flex.com
    (Flex CESS notes alternatives like capacitors for short bursts.)
  • Why Partial: "Don't work out" ignores viability—Batteries enabled California's 2025 duck curve management; PHS provides 70% of long-duration storage. IEA 2025 report: Storage grew 25% YoY, essential for net-zero.
4. Bill Gates Video on Battery Storage and Tokyo Example
  • Accuracy: Strong match. Gates, via Breakthrough Energy Ventures, has funded storage (e.g., Ambri liquid-metal batteries) but candidly highlights challenges.

    ambri.com
    In a May 2019 video ("Energy Storage Breakthroughs"), he notes renewables' intermittency requires massive storage—e.g., 75 GWh for a 3-day Tokyo blackout, equivalent to millions of EVs, impractical at scale.

    youtube.com +2
    A 2018 podcast (with Sam Harris) rants for 30+ minutes on this, citing Tokyo's 100 GW peak demand as a "reality check" (timestamp ~9:00).

    reddit.com +1
    Earlier (2017), he compared gasoline's density to batteries (1 ton gas = 60 tons batteries).

    linkedin.com
  • Context on "Climate Scold": Gates' tone evolved from alarmist (e.g., 2010 TED: "Innovate to zero") to pragmatic investor by 2019, but the Tokyo example persists as a staple critique. No contradiction—it's a call for innovation, not dismissal.
  • Why It Holds: Directly verifiable; aligns with his writings (e.g., 2022 Gates Notes on transition state).

    gatesnotes.com
In summary, the statement is ~80% accurate: Fact-based on fires and Gates' views, with interpretive leeway on CESS/pumped hydro and exaggeration on failures. It captures legitimate engineering debates but risks underplaying progress (e.g., 2025's 50% cost drop in batteries). For balance, see IEA's World Energy Outlook 2025 on storage's role in 90% renewable grids by 2050.
 
They weren't so popular in Ontario in the last election and voters overwhelmingly said NO to them. Or in the Czech Republic.

In our Historic District we have historic zoning that requires the exterior of houses to keep their historic character. It protects my property values when my neighbor cannot screw up the looks of his property. It is a lot like other zoning or like restrictive covenants out in the county where there is no zoning.

The way most wind and solar farms work is that the developer leases the land and builds them, and then they get transferred to an LLC that has no assets other than the wind turbines or solar panels. When they wear out, they can walk away and leave the landowner or taxpayer saddled with cleanup costs.
The Czech Republic
Aren't they all communist and socialists

Again
I am in favor of the bond requiring clean up
Especially if the Oil and Gas industry is required to the same
 
Let's see what AI has to say about your perspective. While based in truth, you're exaggerating for effect to support your own narrative, which IME is very typical of you on this forum, and ignoring the v2 and v3 LFP batteries that have markedly lower (near zero) fire risks when compared to older installations (v1). Again, no technology - including fossil fuel extraction and usage, is perfect, all have pros and cons, and therefore an "all of the above" strategy is best.


Q: Regarding CESS - is the following statement accurate - please provide a bullet list summary and a detailed analysis as to why or why not: While I have not seen anyone use the term CESS, I correctly concluded you were talking about the big lithium batteries that keep catching on fire (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia. . .) and pumped hydro. I have posted links on how those just don't work out. Heck, I even remember a video by Bill Gates, back when he was a climate scold, about how battery storage would not work in practical application, using the power supply of Tokyo as an example.

A:

Summary of Accuracy
  • CESS Definition and Scope: Accurate—CESS typically refers to large-scale commercial or containerized energy storage systems, primarily lithium-ion batteries for grid/commercial use, and the poster's inference includes pumped hydro as a complementary storage method.
  • Lithium Battery Fires: Mostly accurate—Multiple documented fires at large-scale facilities in the cited locations (Belgium, South Korea, California, Australia) have occurred, supporting the claim of recurring issues, though the phrasing "keep catching on fire" exaggerates frequency relative to total deployments (hundreds of GW installed globally without incident).
  • Critiques of Storage Viability: Partially accurate—Links/critiques exist on limitations of both batteries (e.g., fire risks, scalability) and pumped hydro (e.g., high costs, environmental impacts), but claims of "just don't work out" are subjective and overlook successes (e.g., widespread deployment aiding grid stability).
  • Bill Gates Video/Reference: Accurate—Gates has publicly discussed battery storage impracticality using Tokyo's energy demands as an example in videos/interviews (e.g., 2019 clip on storage breakthroughs and a 2018 podcast rant), framing it as a major hurdle for renewables.
Detailed Analysis

The statement from the forum post reflects a skeptical view on centralized energy storage, tying into broader debates on renewable integration. While rooted in real events and expert commentary, it employs rhetorical flair (e.g., "climate scold," "just don't work out") that introduces subjectivity. Below, I dissect each element for factual grounding, drawing on verified incidents, studies, and sources up to December 2025.1. Interpretation of "CESS" as Big Lithium Batteries and Pumped Hydro
  • Accuracy: High. CESS commonly stands for "Commercial Energy Storage System" or "Containerized Energy Storage System," which are modular, large-scale setups (often 100 kW–MW scale) using lithium-ion batteries to store excess renewable energy for grid discharge.

    pisenenergy.com
    These systems are "big" by design, housed in shipping containers for scalability in commercial/industrial applications like solar farms or peak shaving.

    gsl-energy.com
    The poster's admission of unfamiliarity with the acronym is plausible in casual discourse, but their conclusion aligns well—lithium-ion dominates CESS (e.g., NMC or LFP chemistries for high density).

    cdssolar.com
  • Pumped Hydro Inclusion: Reasonable extension. While CESS is battery-centric, energy storage discussions often pair it with pumped hydro storage (PHS), the world's largest form (~95% of global capacity at 180 GW as of 2025), which uses reservoirs to store gravitational energy.

    flex.com
    (Note: describes a capacitive variant, but context fits broader storage.) This isn't a misinterpretation but a holistic view of non-fossil alternatives.
  • Why It Holds: In the forum thread context (TUG BBS, post #478), CESS likely meant centralized/large-scale storage, and the poster's inference captures the intent without error.
2. Claim of Lithium Batteries "Keep Catching on Fire" with Specific Examples
  • Accuracy: Substantiated but overstated. Large-scale lithium-ion fires are rare (~0.0001% of installations per DOE data through 2025), but high-profile incidents validate the examples, fueling public concerns. Thermal runaway (self-sustaining heat escalation) in dense packs is a known risk, exacerbated by manufacturing defects, overcharging, or impacts.

    jensenhughes.com
    Globally, fires have prompted regulations (e.g., Belgium's 2024 decree gaps).

    jensenhughes.com
  • Breakdown by Location:
    • Belgium: Confirmed—2017 fire at a 1 MW/2 MWh grid-connected system in Drogenbos (cause unknown after investigation); 2018 incident at Elia’s ESS park.

      cfpa-e.eu +1
      A 2025 plug-in hybrid explosion in Izegem damaged apartments, tied to battery failure.

      youtube.com
    • South Korea: Well-documented—2024 Aricell factory blaze killed 23, sparked by exploding batteries in a warehouse.

      en.wikipedia.org
      2025 NIRS data center fire (LG Energy Solution batteries, installed 2012) destroyed 384 units, crippling 647 government systems for days via thermal runaway during maintenance.

      networkworld.com +2
      Korea reported 55 UPS-related fires (2018–2022).

      networkworld.com
    • California: Recent and severe—January 2025 Moss Landing (Vistra's 300 MW facility, world's largest) fire released toxic metals (nickel, cobalt, manganese) into Elkhorn Slough, causing health issues (e.g., rashes) and prompting EPA's biggest lithium cleanup.

      sfgate.com +3
      It raised nationwide regulatory scrutiny.

      npr.org
    • Australia: Escalating—94 lithium fires in Western Australia (Jan–Aug 2025) vs. 49 for all 2020, from e-bikes/tools but including grid-scale.

      abc.net.au
      2023 Tesla Megapack fire at Bouldercombe (50 MW); January 2025 Melbourne warehouse blaze consumed 3,000 LFP batteries with explosions.

      energy-storage.news +1
      Community concerns spiked for projects like Wooreen.

      internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com
  • Why Partial: Incidents are real and underscore risks (e.g., hard-to-extinguish "let it burn" protocols), but mitigations like spacing, cooling, and LFP chemistry have reduced rates. Over 1 TWh of battery storage deployed globally by 2025 with improving safety records.
3. "Links on How Those Just Don't Work Out"
  • Accuracy: Subjective but defensible. The poster references prior posts with links critiquing storage—common in forums like TUG BBS. For batteries: Fire risks, supply chain (lithium mining), and degradation (20–30% capacity loss over 10 years) are valid hurdles.

    jensenhughes.com
    For pumped hydro: ~$2–4M/MW costs, long build times (5–10 years), and ecological damage (e.g., reservoir flooding) limit scalability; only 10 GW added globally since 2010.

    flex.com
    (Flex CESS notes alternatives like capacitors for short bursts.)
  • Why Partial: "Don't work out" ignores viability—Batteries enabled California's 2025 duck curve management; PHS provides 70% of long-duration storage. IEA 2025 report: Storage grew 25% YoY, essential for net-zero.
4. Bill Gates Video on Battery Storage and Tokyo Example
  • Accuracy: Strong match. Gates, via Breakthrough Energy Ventures, has funded storage (e.g., Ambri liquid-metal batteries) but candidly highlights challenges.

    ambri.com
    In a May 2019 video ("Energy Storage Breakthroughs"), he notes renewables' intermittency requires massive storage—e.g., 75 GWh for a 3-day Tokyo blackout, equivalent to millions of EVs, impractical at scale.

    youtube.com +2
    A 2018 podcast (with Sam Harris) rants for 30+ minutes on this, citing Tokyo's 100 GW peak demand as a "reality check" (timestamp ~9:00).

    reddit.com +1
    Earlier (2017), he compared gasoline's density to batteries (1 ton gas = 60 tons batteries).

    linkedin.com
  • Context on "Climate Scold": Gates' tone evolved from alarmist (e.g., 2010 TED: "Innovate to zero") to pragmatic investor by 2019, but the Tokyo example persists as a staple critique. No contradiction—it's a call for innovation, not dismissal.
  • Why It Holds: Directly verifiable; aligns with his writings (e.g., 2022 Gates Notes on transition state).

    gatesnotes.com
In summary, the statement is ~80% accurate: Fact-based on fires and Gates' views, with interpretive leeway on CESS/pumped hydro and exaggeration on failures. It captures legitimate engineering debates but risks underplaying progress (e.g., 2025's 50% cost drop in batteries). For balance, see IEA's World Energy Outlook 2025 on storage's role in 90% renewable grids by 2050.

GIGO. My opinion of the accuracy of AI was covered in an earlier thread. Artificial Ignorance is a better term. A lot of foolish people who use AI for medical advice end up in the Emergency Room because of it. 'nuf said!
 
GIGO. My opinion of the accuracy of AI was covered in an earlier thread. Artificial Ignorance is a better term. A lot of foolish people who use AI for medical advice end up in the Emergency Room because of it. 'nuf said!

It’s certainly true that AI isn’t always 100% accurate, but generally it provides good guidance on most topics, especially widely debated topics with lots of research materials available online - such as energy topics like this one. IME people who resort to binary decision making are prone to a lack of critical thinking skills. It seems you often resort to this type of decision making by summarily dismissing things you don’t agree with for your own reasons, perhaps in an attempt to reinforce your own predetermined narratives?

The analysis Grok provided is cogent, and if you had bothered to read it, you’d have noticed it stated you had 80% accuracy to your claims. So you’re now saying that AI is actually wrong and therefore, so are your conclusions. Good to know LOL. AI has also better diagnosed scan results that radiologists have either misdiagnosed or just plan missed on scans. You’d likely be surprised to learn that the medical industry increasingly uses AI based decision engines on most scan results on first pass today for that reason. A human still looks at it, but the process now uses AI engines to cut down on time to results and the human is mostly simply confirming AI scan results. This alone is why most scan results today are made available within a day or so at most. My wife is a nurse and works within the medical centers using this tech on a daily basis.

Are you now going to argue that my wife, who works in the medical vertical, is wrong, simply because it doesn’t align with your rather narrow minded and myopic view of the world? If so that’s a shame really, but your choice to run around it the dark of course, continuing to cherry pick only that which reinforces your narrow worldviews.

m

Q: Is it accurate that the medical centers are increasingly using AI based engines to examine scan results on first pass and then the human confirms or denies those first pass results?

A:

Yes, it is accurate that medical centers are increasingly adopting AI-based tools to perform initial (or “first-pass”) analyses of scan results—such as detecting anomalies in X-rays, CTs, MRIs, or pathology slides—with human radiologists or clinicians then reviewing and confirming (or overriding) those preliminary findings. This hybrid approach enhances efficiency, reduces workload, and improves diagnostic accuracy without replacing human oversight, and adoption has accelerated significantly in recent years due to regulatory approvals, technological advancements, and clinical evidence.

Key Evidence Supporting This Trend

• Rapid Growth in FDA-Cleared AI Tools: As of August 2024, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had authorized nearly 950 AI-enabled medical devices, with over 80 clearances in 2023 alone (the peak year so far) and continued momentum into 2024–2025. The majority target radiology and medical imaging for tasks like preliminary detection of cancers, strokes, or pulmonary embolisms, where AI flags potential issues for human review. This regulatory surge reflects growing clinical integration, particularly in high-volume centers like those affiliated with Mayo Clinic, Stanford, and NIH consortia.

• Workflow Integration in Practice: AI is being embedded into routine radiology workflows for “smart worklist prioritization” and initial triage, where algorithms scan images first to highlight urgent cases or confirm negatives (e.g., ruling out distal pulmonary embolisms in low-quality scans). For instance, tools like those from Fujifilm and Ibex Medical (partnered in 2025) automate slide analysis in pathology, generating preliminary reports that radiologists verify in seconds rather than minutes. A 2025 Indiana University study describes real-world use where AI drafts conclusions from scans, catching inconsistencies (e.g., left vs. right tumor references) before human sign-off, saving time on high-volume reads (e.g., 60 scans/day).

• Performance and Human-AI Collaboration: Studies show AI excels at narrow tasks—often outperforming humans in detection sensitivity (e.g., lung nodules or breast lesions)—but combined human-AI reviews yield the best results, with lower false positives. A 2025 review notes that while AI handles granularity beyond human perception, fewer than 50% of radiologists would trust unverified AI diagnoses, emphasizing the confirmatory role of clinicians. Partnerships like Carnegie Mellon/UPMC’s 2025 initiative focus on this oversight to mitigate biases and ensure equity.

• Market and Adoption Projections: The global AI medical imaging market, valued at ~$1.28 billion in 2024, is projected to reach $14.46 billion by 2034 (27% annual growth), driven by adoption in overburdened centers to combat radiologist burnout. However, barriers like data quality, explainability, and regulatory hurdles (e.g., EU AI Act, FDA’s 2024 guidance) slow full rollout, with emphasis on “responsible deployment” via human validation.
Challenges and Future Outlook
While adoption is rising—especially in oncology, cardiology, and neurology—systematic reviews highlight ongoing issues: slower-than-expected uptake due to physician training needs, integration with electronic health records, and ethical concerns like bias in diverse datasets. By late 2025, experts anticipate broader use of generative AI (e.g., for multimodal reports) under stricter oversight, but human confirmation remains non-negotiable for liability and accuracy. Overall, this model is transforming diagnostics, with AI as an augmentative “first pass” tool rather than a standalone solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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So you resort to dismissing that which disagree with, got it. The analysis is cogent, and if you had bothered to read it, you’d have noticed it stated you had 80% accuracy to your claims. So you’re now saying that AI is actually wrong and therefore, so are your conclusions. Good to know LOL. AI has also better diagnosed scan results that radiologists have either misdiagnosed or just plan missed on scans. You’d likely be surprised to learn that the medical industry increasingly uses AI based decision engines on most scan results on first pass today for that reason. A human still looks at it, but the process now uses AI engines to cut down on time to results and the human is mostly simply confirming AI scan results. This alone is why most scan results today are made available within a day or so at most. My wife is a nurse and works within the medical centers using this tech on a daily basis.

Are you now going to argue that my wife, who works in the medical vertical, is wrong, simply because it doesn’t align with your rather narrow minded and myopic view of the world? It seems you are the type of person that simply dismisses any data that doesn’t align with your predetermined narratives. Thats a shame really, but your choice to run around it the dark of course, continuing to cherry pick only that which reinforces your narrow worldviews.

m

Q: Is it accurate that the medical centers are increasingly using AI based engines to examine scan results on first pass and then the human confirms or denies those first pass results?

A:

Yes, it is accurate that medical centers are increasingly adopting AI-based tools to perform initial (or “first-pass”) analyses of scan results—such as detecting anomalies in X-rays, CTs, MRIs, or pathology slides—with human radiologists or clinicians then reviewing and confirming (or overriding) those preliminary findings. This hybrid approach enhances efficiency, reduces workload, and improves diagnostic accuracy without replacing human oversight, and adoption has accelerated significantly in recent years due to regulatory approvals, technological advancements, and clinical evidence.

Key Evidence Supporting This Trend

• Rapid Growth in FDA-Cleared AI Tools: As of August 2024, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had authorized nearly 950 AI-enabled medical devices, with over 80 clearances in 2023 alone (the peak year so far) and continued momentum into 2024–2025. The majority target radiology and medical imaging for tasks like preliminary detection of cancers, strokes, or pulmonary embolisms, where AI flags potential issues for human review. This regulatory surge reflects growing clinical integration, particularly in high-volume centers like those affiliated with Mayo Clinic, Stanford, and NIH consortia.

• Workflow Integration in Practice: AI is being embedded into routine radiology workflows for “smart worklist prioritization” and initial triage, where algorithms scan images first to highlight urgent cases or confirm negatives (e.g., ruling out distal pulmonary embolisms in low-quality scans). For instance, tools like those from Fujifilm and Ibex Medical (partnered in 2025) automate slide analysis in pathology, generating preliminary reports that radiologists verify in seconds rather than minutes. A 2025 Indiana University study describes real-world use where AI drafts conclusions from scans, catching inconsistencies (e.g., left vs. right tumor references) before human sign-off, saving time on high-volume reads (e.g., 60 scans/day).

• Performance and Human-AI Collaboration: Studies show AI excels at narrow tasks—often outperforming humans in detection sensitivity (e.g., lung nodules or breast lesions)—but combined human-AI reviews yield the best results, with lower false positives. A 2025 review notes that while AI handles granularity beyond human perception, fewer than 50% of radiologists would trust unverified AI diagnoses, emphasizing the confirmatory role of clinicians. Partnerships like Carnegie Mellon/UPMC’s 2025 initiative focus on this oversight to mitigate biases and ensure equity.

• Market and Adoption Projections: The global AI medical imaging market, valued at ~$1.28 billion in 2024, is projected to reach $14.46 billion by 2034 (27% annual growth), driven by adoption in overburdened centers to combat radiologist burnout. However, barriers like data quality, explainability, and regulatory hurdles (e.g., EU AI Act, FDA’s 2024 guidance) slow full rollout, with emphasis on “responsible deployment” via human validation.
Challenges and Future Outlook
While adoption is rising—especially in oncology, cardiology, and neurology—systematic reviews highlight ongoing issues: slower-than-expected uptake due to physician training needs, integration with electronic health records, and ethical concerns like bias in diverse datasets. By late 2025, experts anticipate broader use of generative AI (e.g., for multimodal reports) under stricter oversight, but human confirmation remains non-negotiable for liability and accuracy. Overall, this model is transforming diagnostics, with AI as an augmentative “first pass” tool rather than a standalone solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He saw a headline once
Was probably from "The Onion"
But people used the medical advice from an "AI Search" and ended up in Hospital

He didn't use the other one on you
Yet
Lawyers submitted legal briefs using AI
The briefs cited cases that didn't exist

That is all it took
AI is a flawed tool never to be trusted
A product of the deep state designed to take over our minds

Pretty sure the headlines were from "The Onion"
 
My final post, but first...

Studies have been done (including by a friend of mine) about the number of birds killed by windmills. Often the estimates come in around 140,000 to 700,000 although there have been some estimates as high as 1.2 million. Even at that higher number, everyone agrees that the number of bird deaths from windmills is insignificant compared to the number of birds killed by cats, tall buildings, cars, and climate change caused by the use of fossil fuel. (I am sure Carolinian loves that last problem.)

I am giving up on this thread. Carolinian can just stew in his own misery., The good news is that people are voting with their feet (actually wallets) and switching to renewable fuels. Nothing Carolinian says and does will change that. People are voting against him.

Adios...

Bird deaths, bat deaths, whale deaths, what do they matter to the climate industrial complex and its kneejerk supporters? Real environmentalists care about those things as well as trees and other parts of the environment destroyed by land intensive wind and solar projects.

In the UK, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds has warned that the levels of offshore wind turbine development pushed by the government threatens the extinction of puffins and other sea birds, and were making such warnings as early as five years ago.


34386966-8838183-image-a-36_1602684735785.jpg


The conservation charity Manx Birdlife has also documented the population declines of many species, of sea birds some of them quite dramatic, since the erection of a very large wind turbine project in the Irish Sea near the Isle of Man.


turbine-birds.jpg


Fortunately, some courts in places like France and Ireland are denying permits for wind turbines or shutting them down due to their slaughter of birds.

 
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The Czech Republic
Aren't they all communist and socialists

Quite the contrary. Indeed, Dr. Vaclav Klaus, multi-term former prime minister and two term former president of the Czech Republic, has described climate alarmism as "a budding totalitarian ideology that is the greatest threat to freedom, democracy, and prosperity in the world today." He held office under the center-right Civic Democrats, which is now the largest opposition party in parliament. The present coalition government consists of two populist nationalist parties of the right and a new party whose agenda is centered around fighting against the EU climate agenda.
 
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Carolinian does have a point about the disposal of used windmill blades. At the moment, not good. What he ignores is that people are working on ways to alleviate the problem. The future is not static.

*****************

Windmill blade disposal is a growing challenge due to their size and composite materials (fiberglass/epoxy), leading many to landfills, but innovative recycling methods are emerging, including mechanical grinding for construction materials (roads, panels), thermal decomposition (pyrolysis) to recover fibers, and new thermoplastic blade designs that are fully recyclable, with the industry aiming for a circular economy with landfill bans in Europe by 2026.
Challenges in Disposal
  • Material Composition: Blades use thermoset resins, which are difficult to melt and reform like thermoplastics, and are mixed with fiberglass, wood, and foam.
  • Size & Logistics: Their sheer size makes transportation to recycling facilities costly and complex.
  • Lack of Infrastructure: Limited recycling facilities and market demand for recycled materials hinder sustainable options.
Current Disposal Methods
  • Landfilling: Still common, especially in the US, but consumes significant space and isn't ideal.
  • Repurposing: Used as construction materials (e.g., bridging, shelter roofing, border walls), but this is limited.
Emerging Recycling & Recovery Solutions
  • Mechanical Recycling: Grinding blades into fine particles to create new products like concrete additives, building panels, or asphalt.
  • Chemical Recycling (Pyrolysis): High-heat processes (like Carbon Rivers' method) to break down composites and recover valuable fibers for new products, including automotive parts.
  • Catalytic Depolymerization: New research uses catalysts to break down epoxy resins, recovering the resin (BPA) and glass fibers for reuse.
Future & Sustainable Solutions
  • Thermoplastic Blades: The ZEBRA project and others are developing fully recyclable blades using thermoplastic resins, enabling easy disassembly and reuse.
  • Circular Economy Initiatives: Companies like Iberdrola and Ørsted are investing in recycling plants and developing new recyclable blade designs.
  • Policy & Responsibility: Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) and government incentives aim to shift the burden to manufacturers for end-of-life management, with Europe aiming for a landfill ban by 2026.
Key Players
The problem is not just on the back end with disposal of used blades, but also on the front end, the clear cutting of the Amazon rain forest, "the lungs of the planet" for balsa wood to manufacture the wind turbine blades. That is equally damaging to the environment.

 
Last edited:
He saw a headline once
Was probably from "The Onion"
But people used the medical advice from an "AI Search" and ended up in Hospital

He didn't use the other one on you
Yet
Lawyers submitted legal briefs using AI
The briefs cited cases that didn't exist

That is all it took
AI is a flawed tool never to be trusted
A product of the deep state designed to take over our minds

Pretty sure the headlines were from "The Onion"


Not the Onion !


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coal_.jpg
 
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