New Guideline Changes - Regarding Guest Certificates

[herindoors911]

Be aware, that any reservation already in the name of a guest, may use a guest certificate if days are added or subtracted. The VPA's have to remake the reservation, which prompts a GC token or cost.

 

[rhonda]

Be aware, that any reservation already in the name of a guest, may use a guest certificate if days are added or subtracted. The VPA's have to remake the reservation, which prompts a GC token or cost.

Thanks for adding this to the knowledge base!

(I couldn't simply hit the [Like] button. Yes, I like your information sharing ... but I don't like the policy and how it impacts reservations or impinges on the system's former flexibility.)

 

[breezez]

I'm not too concerned about the limit on credit transfer because I have multiple accounts that I can load if I need to. It is a problem trying to get even a few units in the same location in a popular resort in a popular season. In the past I was able to get nine two bedroom units at Seaside for family reunions by burning points. It is much harder now to reserve the units I need. I can still get nine units but they won't all be two bedroom deluxe and the units will likely be scattered throughout the resort.

Bill

The limit in transfers does affect average owners. Let’s say account A is out of HK tokens. But account B has 2 in it. To save fees you used to be able to move 5000 credits and HK from B to A. You can’t do this now. Let’s say you already hit 2 times your credit transfer limit on Account B. You used to be able to move A to B so you could use HK token in account B. Under current rules you can’t due this either once threshold is reached.

 

[breezez]

I just want to point out that another targeted class is NHK accounts with a high percentage of short-stay guest usage.

I know some like to complain about NHK accounts. What’s any different than people benefiting from bonus time, inventory special or fax time vs those with a NHK account. Neither of these pay housekeeping and most are short stays.

I have NHK, live in Florida on west coast. I don’t stay very often in WM here. But travel out west 3-4 times a year most trips are 4-5 days and general stay night close to departure airport before leaving.

But I would say those that live out west just having access to WM specials and bonus time is a huge benefit and doesn’t have housekeeping either.

 

[ecwinch]

I know some like to complain about NHK accounts. What’s any different than people benefiting from bonus time, inventory special or fax time vs those with a NHK account. Neither of these pay housekeeping and most are short stays.

The difference is a NHK can book any 1-2 days that are sitting out there without waiting for the BT window. That is a huge advantage over the rest of the members.

And my complaint with them is that they were illegally created by fiat of the BoD, as creation of another class of owners requires a vote of the membership. And that there is large concentration of them that like to rail against what the developer is doing to the Club, but have no problem benefiting from their illegal acts.

 

[breezez]

The difference is a NHK can book any 1-2 days that are sitting out there without waiting for the BT window. That is a huge advantage over the rest of the members.

And my complaint with them is that they were illegally created by fiat of the BoD, as creation of another class of owners requires a vote of the membership. And that there is large concentration of them that like to rail against what the developer is doing to the Club, but have no problem benefiting from their illegal acts.

Eric,

While I don’t profess to know the entire history, weren’t NHK accounts created first. Then developer realized error in their decision and made all accounts going forward after a certain date require housekeeping? If so then anyone that bought an account after that date signed agreeing to this. While those accounts sold prior to this date had there would never be a housekeeping fee.

If a person were to buy 63,000 points from developer to this day they too would not have HK fees. Almost all timeshare companies create different classes of owners based on VIP levels and developer vs resell owner

The way I use my account I may get 1 or 2 housekeeping’s above what I would have gotten for the year anyway based just on credits. I am sure others get tons more. I just don’t live close to many WM resorts in my area to make weekend or mid getaways work for me. I didn’t even get into WM trying to buy a NHK account just so happens seller had account he still had a small loan on I bought account and payed his loan off. It was not till I got my first credit installment and did not get HK tokens that I realized I had a NHK account after talking with owner care.

While I don’t really get much use out of it now I hope to in the future.

Please describe this illegal activity you are referring to.

 

[breezez]

After reading this entire thread I am still confused about this Guest Certificate Policy

I get 5 certificates a year. If I use one when I book a reservation, but later change the persons name, because that person can no longer make it. Can I change it online without using another certificate or paying a GC fee?

I see a lot of people saying that if you book a reservation and guest is occupying room then you must book with GC, but what happens if you book for self then life changes can you just add GC to reservation at a later time.

Example I have HI-Kona booked next year, really wanted a 2 bdr, because I have friends traveling with us. But a 2 bdr was not available. I got RCI match for same time in a 2 bedroom HGVC Kona area. So my daughter / fiancé now wants the Kona WM reservation can you just use one of your GC for them even though I didn’t do it when I booked?

 

[herindoors911]

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/board/info/pdfs/WM_Club_Guidelines.pdf

Item number 13 and more.

 

[herindoors911]

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/board/info/pdfs/WM_Club_Guidelines.pdf

 

[herindoors911]

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/board/info/pdfs/WM_Club_Guidelines.pdf

 

[herindoors911]

After reading this entire thread I am still confused about this Guest Certificate Policy

I get 5 certificates a year. If I use one when I book a reservation, but later change the persons name, because that person can no longer make it. Can I change it online without using another certificate or paying a GC fee?

I see a lot of people saying that if you book a reservation and guest is occupying room then you must book with GC, but what happens if you book for self then life changes can you just add GC to reservation at a later time.

Example I have HI-Kona booked next year, really wanted a 2 bdr, because I have friends traveling with us. But a 2 bdr was not available. I got RCI match for same time in a 2 bedroom HGVC Kona area. So my daughter / fiancé now wants the Kona WM reservation can you just use one of your GC for them even though I didn’t do it when I booked?

Don't think you need to worry about an RCI booking. Maybe RCI already charged a GC from their side? If you had a guest name on a WM reservation before 12th September , it won't cost a GC, I less you make changes.


NO GC is refundable. NO GC's continue into the next year's allotment.

***Always leave a WM guest name change to the last minute if a guest is going. Put their name on a few days before they occupy the unit. Therefore, any unforeseen cancellations won't cost a GC.

 

[herindoors911]

The difference is a NHK can book any 1-2 days that are sitting out there without waiting for the BT window. That is a huge advantage over the rest of the members.

And my complaint with them is that they were illegally created by fiat of the BoD, as creation of another class of owners requires a vote of the membership. And that there is large concentration of them that like to rail against what the developer is doing to the Club, but have no problem benefiting from their illegal acts.

Eric.... anyone can book 1-2 day Stays if they are sitting out there without waiting for BT to start. The difference is it requires a HK token or fee. Anyone can book the same places as an NHK owner..same timing, same days, same places.

So, have a cup of coffee, preferably at Seaside, as this seems to be your annual rant about NHK accounts. . Tee hee

It is also being reported that BT and all the other extra WM extras are charging
A GC for guests. Whether you have a have an NHK or not, you pay the same at five days out. Personally don't use BT.

 

[geist1223]

If you have a Booking for yourself and change to a Guest you will be debited a GC or pay a Guest Fee. If you have a Booking with a Guest and change it in any way (changing to a different Guest, subtract a day, add a day, any change, etc) you will be debited another GC or pay another Guest Fee. Hard to make changes Online and so normally a call to VPC is necessary. The Guest Fee if Booking done Online is $99. The Guest Fee is done by telephone is $129.

 

[geist1223]

The WMTC BOD did not create a new separate class of Members with NHK. That is what was sold originally. They created a new separate class of Owners that had to use HK Tokens or pay a HK Fee. Every Owner (to include you Eric) that bought after the start of HK Tokens/Fees acknowledged this in signing their Contract to purchase Points. If you bought resell then you stand in the shoes of the person from whom you bought.

 

[ecwinch]

Eric,

While I don’t profess to know the entire history, weren’t NHK accounts created first. Then developer realized error in their decision and made all accounts going forward after a certain date require housekeeping? If so then anyone that bought an account after that date signed agreeing to this. While those accounts sold prior to this date had there would never be a housekeeping fee.

Please describe this illegal activity you are referring to.

When the Club was started in 1989, housekeeping charges for credit usage did not exist. So in Apr 1991, the BoD passed this resolution:

Peare moved for Board's approval to implement additional maid service charges to those that are currently charged to be applicable only to Owners who have purchased after May 1, 1991. Sites seconded the motion, and it was unanimously:

RESOLVED, that Trendwest Resorts, Inc. as Club Manager be authorized to implement additional maid service charges for new Owners only who have purchased after May 1, 1991.

There is just one problem with that approach. The BoD had no authority to exclude existing members from the new fee. Here is what the CA Corp Code says about member benefits:

CORPORATIONS CODE
SECTION 7330-7333
7330. A corporation may issue memberships having different rights,
privileges, preferences, restrictions, or conditions, as authorized
by its articles or bylaws
7331. Except as provided in or authorized by the articles or
bylaws, all memberships shall have the same rights, privileges,
preferences, restrictions and conditions.


7331 is pretty clear on the point. Under our governing documents, there is only one class of members. And as 7331 points out we all share the same rights, privileges, preferences, restrictions and conditions. Excluding certain members from a fee is illegal.

 

[breezez]

Don't think you need to worry about an RCI booking. Maybe RCI already charged a GC from their side? If you had a guest name on a WM reservation before 12th September , it won't cost a GC, I less you make changes.


NO GC is refundable. NO GC's continue into the next year's allotment.

***Always leave a WM guest name change to the last minute if a guest is going. Put their name on a few days before they occupy the unit. Therefore, any unforeseen cancellations won't cost a GC.

Thanks for your info I wasn’t worried about RCI, I was originally going to squeeze us all into a 1 bedroom but I got matched on a RCI - HGVC 2 bedroom unit they we are now going to stay in vs WM Kona, but I was going to add my daughter as a guest on my WM Owner reservation for the Kona unit I booked.

 

[breezez]

When the Club was started in 1989, housekeeping charges for credit usage did not exist. So in Apr 1991, the BoD passed this resolution:

Peare moved for Board's approval to implement additional maid service charges to those that are currently charged to be applicable only to Owners who have purchased after May 1, 1991. Sites seconded the motion, and it was unanimously:

RESOLVED, that Trendwest Resorts, Inc. as Club Manager be authorized to implement additional maid service charges for new Owners only who have purchased after May 1, 1991.

There is just one problem with that approach. The BoD had no authority to exclude existing members from the new fee. Here is what the CA Corp Code says about member benefits:

CORPORATIONS CODE
SECTION 7330-7333
7330. A corporation may issue memberships having different rights,
privileges, preferences, restrictions, or conditions, as authorized
by its articles or bylaws
7331. Except as provided in or authorized by the articles or
bylaws, all memberships shall have the same rights, privileges,
preferences, restrictions and conditions.


7331 is pretty clear on the point. Under our governing documents, there is only one class of members. And as 7331 points out we all share the same rights, privileges, preferences, restrictions and conditions. Excluding certain members from a fee is illegal.

I would say then there are 2 classes those who bought before 5/1/1991... And those that bought later.... Again even today their is different classes if I buy 63,000 credits from developer. I’m in a totally different class then buying 63,000 resell.

I think the problem is the NHK wording was part of the contract between owner and developer.

If they have broken the law then I am sure they would have had a class action by now.

As far as classes go. There is also another class of owner those who own fractionals at Southshore, Depoe Bay, or Seaside. Hmmm I wonder if they need GC’s? If they give up units for credits do they get GC’s

 

[geist1223]

So Eric when are you going to retain an attorney in California and file a law suit? You shouldn't need more than $50K to $100K for a retainer. You might have a slight up hill battle explaining to the Court why you waited so long after becoming a Worldmark Member to file the law suit.

Actually we are also Seaside Residence Club Members. If we trade in a Residence Club Week for Worldmark Points in addition to the WM Points we get a HKC and a GC Credit.

We do not need to use a GC or pay a Guest Fee if we allow someone else to use (for free or rent) one of our Residence Club Weeks. They are Deeded Weeks that we can use in any manner we choose.

 

[ecwinch]

I would say then there are 2 classes those who bought before 5/1/1991... And those that bought later.... Again even today their is different classes if I buy 63,000 credits from developer. I’m in a totally different class then buying 63,000 resell.

I think the problem is the NHK wording was part of the contract between owner and developer.

If they have broken the law then I am sure they would have had a class action by now.

As far as classes go. There is also another class of owner those who own fractionals at Southshore, Depoe Bay, or Seaside. Hmmm I wonder if they need GC’s? If they give up units for credits do they get GC’s

In terms of the "rights and privileges" that you are entitled to as a member of the Club, there is no distinction between resale credits and developer credits. Of course there are benefits the developer makes available to their customers, but that has no bearing on the benefits from the Club.

No, there is nothing in a contract that explicitly states that they are exempt from housekeeping fees. But everyone's contact has a stipulation that they are subject to the rules and guidelines of the Club, which are subject to change. [I point out the term contract only because someone will likely chime in and say "there is a checkbox on the transfer paperwork". Transfer paperwork is not a contract.]

And the reason that there has not been a class action is only thing a lawsuit would accomplish would be removing NHK benefits from those accounts.

And the fractional owners are not a separate class. Every member who owns a fixed week that trades thru RCI/II can exchange their week for credits.

 

[geist1223]

So why go on and on and on.

 

[bizaro86]

Eric.... anyone can book 1-2 day Stays if they are sitting out there without waiting for BT to start. The difference is it requires a HK token or fee. Anyone can book the same places as an NHK owner..same timing, same days, same places.

So, have a cup of coffee, preferably at Seaside, as this seems to be your annual rant about NHK accounts. . Tee hee

It is also being reported that BT and all the other extra WM extras are charging
A GC for guests. Whether you have a have an NHK or not, you pay the same at five days out. Personally don't use BT.

I think legally Eric is probably right about this, but it doesn't benefit anyone enough to sue about it so nobody has, and Wyn will never change it because then the original NHK owners would sue them.

All that said, this post is hilarious.

 

[ecwinch]

So Eric when are you going to retain an attorney in California and file a law suit? You shouldn't need more than $50K to $100K for a retainer. You might have a slight up hill battle explaining to the Court why you waited so long after becoming a Worldmark Member to file the law suit.

Tom, while I am not a lawyer like yourself, I am familiar with the concept of laches. As is the fact [that as a lawyer], that is all you offer in rebuttal.

 

[herindoors911]

Can we get back to the GC situation ? Very off topic here.

 

[herindoors911]

Wanted to add that each owner on an account can book a reservation for a room, as long as they are present at check in.

 

[herindoors911]

NB.... anyone using TPI and SFX, or other small exchange companies will be paying $129 fee for the "guest" occupying the WM unit. These smaller companies do not take the week out of your account and have to call in to change into guest name. That prompts a GC or the $129 call in fee. Possibility of account being frozen if fee is attached. Check often if using these exchange companies.

II and RCI are not affected.