New Guideline Changes - Regarding Guest Certificates

[ecwinch]

Starting Sept 12, 2018 - guest certificates will be required for guest reservations.

From the Worldmark website:

During their June meeting, the Board of Directors voted to approve two additions to the WorldMark, The Club Guidelines.

Multiple Reservations:

• When an owner books multiple reservations at a resort for the same time period, each owner on the account is allowed to check into a reservation for the specific unit they will occupy. Any further reservations will require a guest name.
• The guest listed on the reservation must be present at check-in and occupy the unit.

The multiple reservations policy is currently enforced at many WorldMark resorts today and will now be part of the Club Guidelines.

Guest Certificates:

• Effective Sept. 12, 2018, all guest reservations will require a Guest Certificate at the time of booking. Owners will receive complimentary Guest Certificates based on the number of annual Vacation Credits owned, with a fee of $99 (online) or $129 (phone) charged for each additional Guest Certificate required within a 12-month period.
• All owners will receive at least one complimentary Guest Certificate each anniversary year, which will expire 13 months after the award date.
• Annual awards are calculated by taking the number of Vacation Credits owned divided by 10,000 and rounding up to the nearest whole number. For example, an owner who owns between 5,000 and 10,000 Vacation Credits will be awarded one Guest Certificate each anniversary year, while an owner who owns between 11,000 and 20,000 Vacation Credits will be awarded two Guest Certificates each anniversary year.
• New online functionality will give owners the ability to add and modify guest names on confirmed reservations on worldmarktheclub.com.

The addition of this fee supports a fee-for-service model where charges are incurred when a non-owner uses services provided by WorldMark, The Club.

If you would like to add a guest name to an existing reservation without incurring the Guest Certificate fee, you may do so up until Sept. 11, 2018. After that date, a Guest Certificate will be required for all guest reservations regardless of original booking date.

 

[rhonda]

Boo ... I [Dislike] until I'm convinced otherwise??

EDIT: FWIW, I don't see myself having to pay for a Guest Cert often given the formula for complimentary Certs. Still ... it just bugs me as "family unfriendly."

 

[taterhed]

I've heard of people renting multiples and doing the VRBO/ABNB thing....wonder if this was aimed at that?

 

[tschwa2]

Would love to hear from those who love to think that Wyndham doesn't own Worldmark and that the owners own Worldmark and reconcile this one.

An owner should be able to check in for as many rooms as he or she wants regardless of whether they overlap and regardless of whether the owner intends to leave one or more empty or allow guests traveling with the owner to stay. There really shouldn't be any difference between an owner booking 3 studios for self and guest on a trip and booking a 2-3 bedroom that fits the same number of guests travelling with and staying with the owner. Yes I know Wyndham has been doing this for years, but Wyndham owns Wyndham and I can't imagine Worldmark owners wanting to pay extra fees for what they have always been able to do without paying those fees. I know I really resent guest cert fees in general but to be charged when guest are staying in a different unit (often due to availability not intentionally) during the same stay.

 

[ecwinch]

I've heard of people renting multiples and doing the VRBO/ABNB thing....wonder if this was aimed at that?

I think it was a combination of factors. Rentals certainly are factor. If you follow some of the AirBnb hosts that frequently list WM resorts, you will find some of them list months and months of inventory on AirBnb. Of course they do not actually have that inventory booked as it would tie up hundreds of thousands of credits. They are just using placeholders. So when a guest "requests" a booking - they will go see if anything is available and if so, make the reservation; and if not just decline the request. Booking it with FAX, IS, or whatever specials are running at the time. Adding guest certificates will likely cripple that business, as I suspect they are working off pretty slim margins.

The other thing involved here is that Wyndham has zero incentive to try anything different then what they do with Club Wyndham. I dont get the general sense that any of our non-affiliated BoD members use their memberships extensively, so I doubt any of the techniques that experienced members use even occurs to them. So it is fairly easy for most of them to go along to get along, as they dont see how this policy hurts their usage and are swayed by statistics that Wyndham offers on how this has minimal impact is on how most people use their memberships.

And as much as everyone will say this is just another money grab by Wyndham, the fact is the Club does have some long-term financial issues. This is an issue that every BoD has to face - even if we had the most pro-owner/anti-Wyndham BoD elected. Increasing acct size, hard cap on due increases, and aging physical plant do not bode well in the long-run.

 

[ecwinch]

An owner should be able to check in for as many rooms as he or she wants regardless of whether they overlap and regardless of whether the owner intends to leave one or more empty or allow guests traveling with the owner to stay. There really shouldn't be any difference between an owner booking 3 studios for self and guest on a trip and booking a 2-3 bedroom that fits the same number of guests travelling with and staying with the owner. Yes I know Wyndham has been doing this for years, but Wyndham owns Wyndham and I can't imagine Worldmark owners wanting to pay extra fees for what they have always been able to do without paying those fees. I know I really resent guest cert fees in general but to be charged when guest are staying in a different unit (often due to availability not intentionally) during the same stay.

I agree with you on this point. This - in combination with ban on HK transfers - are probably the two changes where the BoD has impacted the general membership more than they realized.

If we only had an owner advocacy group that controlled enough voting power to place an issue on the ballot.

 

[geist1223]

Another horrible strike/attack on the average owner. Also the extra $30 for call in is unjustifiable and just a money grab. The VPC Counselor (ha) does not get paid $120 per hour - assuming the average call is 15 minutes. Do they reimburse money to WM for the cost of all the hours VPC sits around and not on the telephone.

 

[taterhed]

I agree with you on this point. This - in combination with ban on HK transfers - are probably the two changes where the BoD has impacted the general membership more than they realized.

If we only had an owner advocacy group that controlled enough voting power to place an issue on the ballot.

Yup, the HKT transfer was what burned me. I have 2 accounts....so it's a $$$ impact.

 

[ronparise]

I don’t get it. You guys wanted some control on the megarenters and now you got it

Wyndhams goal here is to level the playing field. Ie take away whatever advantage a large owner might have when making reservations. This helps.

I predict major changes to the wait list by the end of the year

 

[ronparise]

Would love to hear from those who love to think that Wyndham doesn't own Worldmark and that the owners own Worldmark and reconcile this one.

An owner should be able to check in for as many rooms as he or she wants regardless of whether they overlap and regardless of whether the owner intends to leave one or more empty or allow guests traveling with the owner to stay. There really shouldn't be any difference between an owner booking 3 studios for self and guest on a trip and booking a 2-3 bedroom that fits the same number of guests travelling with and staying with the owner. Yes I know Wyndham has been doing this for years, but Wyndham owns Wyndham and I can't imagine Worldmark owners wanting to pay extra fees for what they have always been able to do without paying those fees. I know I really resent guest cert fees in general but to be charged when guest are staying in a different unit (often due to availability not intentionally) during the same stay.

Wyndham dosent own Worldmark any more than they own Club Wyndham in both cases the owners own the resorts

What Wyndham own are the development rights and the management contracts. Ie they control the club. Ownership has nothing to do with anything

They are on a tear to rid the club of the commercial renters which is I thought what most owners want

 

[geist1223]

Everything they have done hurts the average Owner/Member more than it hurts the Megarenter.

 

[rickandcindy23]

That sucks. I just rent about four per year because we don't use our points each year. I guess mine will be included with the points I own.

I should really get rid of some timeshare points and weeks. I grow tired of the constant changes by Wyndham. I am sure Shell will do this too, and you cannot even rent Shell for the cost of the MF's.

 

[rhonda]

I don’t get it. You guys wanted some control on the megarenters and now you got it

Wyndhams goal here is to level the playing field. Ie take away whatever advantage a large owner might have when making reservations. This helps.

I predict major changes to the wait list by the end of the year

FWIW, I don't think I particularly felt pained by mega-renters. Likely because I was a power-user (for my own family's use). However, the following changes, perhaps in name of mega-renters, has made it increasingly difficult to enjoy WM with and for my family:

• Changes to Grouped Reservations rules (specifically the start date and the need for consistent season; we never rented out the throw-away nights so restricting the names on the reservation segments meant nothing to me)
• Restricting the transfer of housekeeping tokens when transferring credits across accounts.
• Changes to Guest Certs as it impacts my use of booking multiple units for family gatherings. I still want a large unit for the "gathering place" but as the kids grow up and marry ... we need multiple small units as well.

I've been enormously successful getting my WM reservations when/where I wanted. I didn't feel threatened by renters ... but do feel 'squished' by these rule changes. Sigh. Oh, well.

 

[ronparise]

FWIW, I don't think I particularly felt pained by mega-renters. Likely because I was a power-user (for my own family's use). However, the following changes, perhaps in name of mega-renters, has made it increasingly difficult to enjoy WM with and for my family:

• Changes to Grouped Reservations rules (specifically the start date and the need for consistent season; we never rented out the throw-away nights so restricting the names on the reservation segments meant nothing to me)
• Restricting the transfer of housekeeping tokens when transferring credits across accounts.
• Changes to Guest Certs as it impacts my use of booking multiple units for family gatherings. I still want a large unit for the "gathering place" but as the kids grow up and marry ... we need multiple small units as well.

I've been enormously successful getting my WM reservations when/where I wanted. I didn't feel threatened by renters ... but do feel 'squished' by these rule changes. Sigh. Oh, well.

Just wait, there will be more. It dosent matter that you dont feel threatened. There are enough owners that dont like the idea of non owners staying at the resorts and feel renters reduce availability for legitimate owners that the board (and Wyndham) is going to keep changing things up until large scale commercial renting is no more

 

[rhonda]

Just wait, there will be more. It dosent matter that you dont feel threatened. There are enough owners that dont like the idea of non owners staying at the resorts and feel renters reduce availability for legitimate owners that the board (and Wyndham) is going to keep changing things up until large scale commercial renting is no more

I hear you. It is sad when something you enjoyed for so long is ruined by any segment of the population ... but it the way things go (down). It happened at my very favorite resort ... and one of those owners also showed up in the WM community soliciting rentals. I saw his name and something died inside my heart even then. He destroys everything he touches ...

 

[taterhed]

I do think this change should cause larger owners (I mean for personal use, not commercial) to consider owning multiple accounts. The cost isn't that prohibitive.
Of course, the GC cost isn't that prohibitive but is disappointing.

 

[breezez]

Wyndham dosent own Worldmark any more than they own Club Wyndham in both cases the owners own the resorts

What Wyndham own are the development rights and the management contracts. Ie they control the club. Ownership has nothing to do with anything

They are on a tear to rid the club of the commercial renters which is I thought what most owners want

Ron - Not sure I agree on this one. On some resorts I believe Wyndham owns a right to use, I don’t even think they own the resorts they sell. Example the new Wyndham Grand Clearwater Beach resort is not owned by Wyndham at all the Patel family’s company owns it. Mr. Patel was a renowned surgeon turned entrepnuer and owns the largest home in Tampa Bay metro area.

 

[breezez]

Where this policy hurts both the everyday account holder and a renter is on credits transferred in. Your allowed 2 times account size, can no longer bring in HK tokens and now if putting others on reservation will need to now pay for that too.

I have only needed a guest certificate 2 times in last 4 years so not too big of a deal for me, but you will never convince me how these policies are to the benefit of me as an owner. Each new one they make makes my ownership less valuable to me.

I also see this policy changing my combine strategy. I look for combines on MF chart that are right at the edge of next cost bump. Now I’ll look at it this way plus at at the edge to get one more guest certificate.

To a mega renter their is not much of a reduction in MF’s after a certain point no matter how big your account size is for most of them they will just have more accounts.

 

[ronparise]

Ron - Not sure I agree on this one. On some resorts I believe Wyndham owns a right to use, I don’t even think they own the resorts they sell. Example the new Wyndham Grand Clearwater Beach resort is not owned by Wyndham at all the Patel family’s company owns it. Mr. Patel was a renowned surgeon turned entrepnuer and owns the largest home in Tampa Bay metro area.

That’s my point. Wyndham dosent own the Worldmark resorts and Wyndham dosent own the Wyndham resorts

What wyndham does own is the right to develop for the clubs and they own the management contracts

So they are able to set the rules that we owners must follow

 

[taterhed]

Well....I'll keep assigning my proxy....hope it helps. We'll see.

 

[easyrider]

I've heard of people renting multiples and doing the VRBO/ABNB thing....wonder if this was aimed at that?

Probably. WM kind of messed up the private rental market of WM inventory with a bunch of rules. One rule that I didn't like was not being able to rent as many points from others as I wanted. In the past I was able to start trips in a different location studio and grab two bedroom units in popular areas at popular times.

Now it is a bit difficult to manipulate the system for profit or personal family gatherings.

Bill

 

[rhonda]

Probably. WM kind of messed up the private rental market of WM inventory with a bunch of rules. One rule that I didn't like was not being able to rent as many points from others as I wanted. In the past I was able to start trips in a different location studio and grab two bedroom units in popular areas at popular times.

Now it is a bit difficult to manipulate the system for profit or personal family gatherings.

Bill

FWIW, the limit on credit transfer volume doesn't bother me as it basically takes us back to a system restriction we had in place before the IRIS (?) reservation system was introduced. The maximum number of credits in our account were, long ago, capped at 2x our annual credit ownership. (If I recall correctly ...?)

 

[easyrider]

FWIW, the limit on credit transfer volume doesn't bother me as it basically takes us back to a system restriction we had in place before the IRIS (?) reservation system was introduced. The maximum number of credits in our account were, long ago, capped at 2x our annual credit ownership. (If I recall correctly ...?)

I'm not too concerned about the limit on credit transfer because I have multiple accounts that I can load if I need to. It is a problem trying to get even a few units in the same location in a popular resort in a popular season. In the past I was able to get nine two bedroom units at Seaside for family reunions by burning points. It is much harder now to reserve the units I need. I can still get nine units but they won't all be two bedroom deluxe and the units will likely be scattered throughout the resort.

Bill

 

[taterhed]

Yeah, the max credit limit doesn't bother me nearly as much as the no hkt transfer.

As long as we're complaining, I'm sure you've noticed the pattern of units being reserved and dropped at the last moment... Obviously these are renters. on the bright side, you can always go to Facebook WorldMark waitlist and see the units that people are willing to rent instead of drop

Tater on my Note8 tapatalk

 

[geist1223]

I'm not too concerned about the limit on credit transfer because I have multiple accounts that I can load if I need to. It is a problem trying to get even a few units in the same location in a popular resort in a popular season. In the past I was able to get nine two bedroom units at Seaside for family reunions by burning points. It is much harder now to reserve the units I need. I can still get nine units but they won't all be two bedroom deluxe and the units will likely be scattered throughout the resort.

Bill

Under the new Guidelines you can check into 1 unit, your SO (Co-owner) can check into 1 Unit, and then you will need Guest Certificates for the other 7 Rooms.