My Advice to Marriott Vacation Club ... Timeshare Traveler Episode 201

[Clifbell]

I wanted to provide Marriott Vacation Club a list of what they should do more of to improve their program. I consider myself an experienced traveler and knowledgable of their program. But I also have some ideas on how the program could be better.

In this video, I go through the major opportunities for Marriott Vacation Club. I try to express the opportunity from a Client's perspective but also why it would be good for owners. The first opportunity is tfocus less on Wall street. The second is focus more on the customer. The third is new Features I would like to see. The last issue is how to can competitive to AirBnB.

My Advice to Marriott Vacation Club ... Timeshare Traveler Episode 201

Map of all my timeshare reviews

 

[TolmiePeak]

Thanks for making these videos Clif. Yes I wish the owners of the timeshare systems would roll out more consumer friendly policies. They are getting eaten alive by AirBnB and VRBO. I went to the owners social at the Waiohai last month and the average age there was 75. These timeshare programs are going to be increasingly unstable if they don't get some younger buyers into the system.

 

[Clifbell]

Thanks for making these videos Clif. Yes I wish the owners of the timeshare systems would roll out more consumer friendly policies. They are getting eaten alive by AirBnB and VRBO. I went to the owners social at the Waiohai last month and the average age there was 75. These timeshare programs are going to be increasingly unstable if they don't get some younger buyers into the system.

I agree with you. And raising prices to make wall street happy means they are not focused on the customer. The 75+ age group will shrink and the younger group will not step in unless they can compete. The industry is consolidating and the winners will have the most options. I have not seen Marriott make any significant changes since they bought Vistana (Westin / Sheraton / Hyatt). I haven't see a lot of improvements.

I am very curious to see how Marriott's strategy compares to Hilton's expansion strategy. Curious to see if Hilton improves properties fast enough. Hilton now have a huge number of properties, so they can say they are in a lot of markets (not as many as AirBnb, but a substantial number). Hilton's challenge is to improve resort quality they bought. I don't know how Marriott can find more and more customers with their very high price points. I think the next 2-3 years will be critical.

 

[claraj]

I'm still in my 40's and never thought I would own a time share from all the negative impressions/reputation I've heard through media and other people. I think people generally still think you can only go to one location with a timeshare. Since owning, I've found more and more people in my age group are also owners. Maybe we are still hesitant to openly share that we are timeshare owners....

Having said all that, I think late 30's and 40's is a good age to own a timeshare. Owners will be more financially stable and be able to handle the responsibility of learning a timeshare system and making it work.

Also, while I will still be open to Airbnbs as an alternative, I did not have great experiences with Airbnb. I still found rentals to be hit or miss (looked bigger in the pictures, wifi going out, etc.) So I am happy to have found timeshares and now it's my first choice for accommodations especially when traveling with a group.

@Clifbell Thank you for the informative videos!

 

[jwalk03]

I think there are more younger owners than you think. Just depends what resorts you are at and what time of year. If you are traveling when school is in session you are much more likely to encounter a much older crowd. I would also say for specific events like owner meet and greets and management updates and things like that its much more likely to skew older.

I am only in my 30s and I love being a Marriott owner! My family and I can travel so much more than we ever could using an AirBNB or VRBO which I find to be way overpriced for anything in nice places.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I think there are more younger owners than you think.

Could be. There were some younger families but they all said their parents made the reservation for them. Maybe Hawaii skews towards an older demographic. It is very expensive.

 

[jwalk03]

Could be. There were some younger families but they all said their parents made the reservation for them. Maybe Hawaii skews towards an older demographic. It is very expensive.

Yes I would think so. I have never been to Hawaii (but its on my to-do list, maybe 2026)

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Interesting review. I don't think they will ever be able to integrate the Hyatt timeshares into Abound due the agreement with Hyatt hotels, I can's see Hyatt ever allowing their brand to be marketed as part of Marriott..

Also Airbnb is much larger than Marriott, as measured by market capitalization (value of shares outstanding) Marriott. Specifically Airbnb is valued at 93 billion, vs Marriott hotels 66 billion, and Marriott Vacation club is only 3 billion..

I am probably in minority, but i much prefer staying at resort than staying in private house or condo such as i would find with Airbnb/VRBO etc...

 

[jwalk03]

Interesting review. I don't think they will ever be able to integrate the Hyatt timeshares into Abound due the agreement with Hyatt hotels, I can's see Hyatt ever allowing their brand to be marketed as part of Marriott..

Also Airbnb is much larger than Marriott, as measured by market capitalization (value of shares outstanding) Marriott. Specifically Airbnb is valued at 93 billion, vs Marriott hotels 66 billion, and Marriott Vacation club is only 3 billion..

I am probably in minority, but i much prefer staying at resort than staying in private house or condo such as i would find with Airbnb/VRBO etc...

Ditto. I am not an Air BNB fan at all. It drives me crazy when it shows you a reasonable price then you go to book and the actual price is 5X higher cuz of extra fees.

 

[DRH90277]

We own a number of Marriott platinum timeshares (80% enrolled for points) and 75% at beach locations. My assessment of the points program is it's too expensive to purchase and maintain (maintenance fees) and the use choices are either scarce in terms of making reservations or of inferior quality in relation to the old program weeks. My options are (1) to tolerate it; (2) to revert to just using and renting out my weeks (to heck with depositing for points); (3) more Interval exchanges; and, (4) to ensure that we do not buy anything points related. In other words, just build up our week ownership of what we will use or convert to cash from rentals or uses through Interval.

The downside of this to the public company (VAC) is a substantial lessening of revenue growth and the loss of access to our weeks to support the scarce reservations available for points.

I don't think Vacation Club management realizes the symbiotic relationship is eroding.

 

[VacationForever]

the loss of access to our weeks to support the scarce reservations available for points.

This is not substantiated and simply baloney. The Trust Exchange holds weeks that are held in the trust and weeks that have been elected by owners for Club points conversion for that year. Trust does not cause weeks owners to lose access to their weeks.

 

[bnoble]

I went to the owners social at the Waiohai last month and the average age there was 75.

This may have more to do with "people who go to the owners' social" than it does "people who own timeshare". According to the most recent quarterly investor slide deck, 60% of first-time buyers in 2023 were Gen X or younger (so late 50s at the oldest)

https://ir.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/static-files/76971d41-ab45-4874-9ad9-21b1c31fb98e

 

[DRH90277]

This is not substantiated and simply baloney. The Trust Exchange holds weeks that are held in the trust and weeks that have been elected by owners for Club points conversion for that year. Trust does not cause weeks owners to lose access to their weeks.

My wording may be questionable, but the point is that when we deposit weeks for points, we should expect a good chance of delivery of reservations from the point system. My experience is that the inventory selections available under the points system are generally inadequate to meet our needs for the better properties. This is most likely caused by an unrealistic expectation that deposits of better weeks will come. And, we are Chairman's club level.

If it is any comfort, the sales function presentations include a fair amount of baloney.

 

[ljmiii]

I don't think they will ever be able to integrate the Hyatt timeshares into Abound due the agreement with Hyatt hotels, I can's see Hyatt ever allowing their brand to be marketed as part of Marriott..

Unless of course Marriott Int'l buys Hyatt Hotels Corporation.

I am probably in minority, but i much prefer staying at resort than staying in private house or condo such as i would find with Airbnb/VRBO etc...

Perhaps we are a minority, but I completely agree.

 

[JIMinNC]

My experience is that the inventory selections available under the points system are generally inadequate to meet our needs for the better properties.

You have often made this categorical statement when talking about points availability, but our experience is diametrically opposite. We have always found many "better properties" readily available with points when booking proactively at release date.

Since 2018, and including bookings scheduled through early 2025, we've booked these (all 7-night bookings except as noted):

Marriott's Grande Ocean in April 2018 during RBC Heritage Week
Marriott's Desert Springs I/II three times in the fall (2018, 2019, 2022) and once in March 2024
Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club for February 2019
Marriott's Maui Ocean Club Original Towers in February 2020 whale season
Marriott's Crystal Shores in November 2020
Marriott's Ocean Pointe in March 2021 (spring break time)
Marriott's Newport Coast for three nights in October 2022
Marriott's Maui Ocean Club Napili Towers on three occasions in 2022, 2023, and 2024 for January-March whale season
Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club for February 2025
Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club for March 2025

I consider all of those "better properties".

I can think of nowhere we have ever tried to book that we haven't been able to get. Admittedly, we've never wanted/needed to book summer vacation beach weeks, but winter trips in warm locations are pretty high demand also, and we've had no problems getting what we want there.

If it is any comfort, the sales function presentations include a fair amount of baloney.

I agree with your assessment that sales presentations contain a fair amount of baloney, and they do often oversell the booking process. People often go into ownership not realizing the diligence they have to follow to book when reservation windows open, but it IS possible to get high quality locations and dates when you know how to work within the system.

 

[dioxide45]

I think there are more younger owners than you think. Just depends what resorts you are at and what time of year. If you are traveling when school is in session you are much more likely to encounter a much older crowd. I would also say for specific events like owner meet and greets and management updates and things like that its much more likely to skew older.

I am only in my 30s and I love being a Marriott owner! My family and I can travel so much more than we ever could using an AirBNB or VRBO which I find to be way overpriced for anything in nice places.

MVW has provided some numbers where they have stated something like 50% of new buyers are millennials or younger.

 

[bazzap]

My wording may be questionable, but the point is that when we deposit weeks for points, we should expect a good chance of delivery of reservations from the point system. My experience is that the inventory selections available under the points system are generally inadequate to meet our needs for the better properties. This is most likely caused by an unrealistic expectation that deposits of better weeks will come. And, we are Chairman's club level.

If it is any comfort, the sales function presentations include a fair amount of baloney.

Perhaps it is because we use our elected weeks points for resorts primarily in Asia and for short extensions in Europe, but we continue to have good success with points bookings.
In 2023, our points bookings included 4 weeks in Bali, 10 nights in Phuket and a few nights in Mallorca.

 

[ljmiii]

My options are (1) to tolerate it; (2) to revert to just using and renting out my weeks (to heck with depositing for points); (3) more Interval exchanges; and, (4) to ensure that we do not buy anything points related. In other words, just build up our week ownership of what we will use or convert to cash from rentals or uses through Interval.

Like @JIMinNC my experience has been the opposite (though my experience booking weeks is admittedly limited). Using points at 13 months sharp over the past few years I've booked 'high season' reservations at Frenchman's Cove, St Kitts, RCC St Thomas, Newport Coast, Surfwatch, KBC, Ko Olina, and Waikoloa and at 12 months the Westin Los Cabos. The only ressie I've never been able to book is Village d'ile-de-France in summer (though I have seen availability is shoulder season).

I contrast this with my experience trying to book MOC in summer when at 9AM sharp for two weeks running I couldn't get a ressie at 13 months + 2 weeks (I finally succeeded on the third try).

That said, I agree with you in that I've never had any interest in buying points as points...though I have bought them to enroll resale weeks and as a hybrid package.

 

[Dean]

This is not substantiated and simply baloney. The Trust Exchange holds weeks that are held in the trust and weeks that have been elected by owners for Club points conversion for that year. Trust does not cause weeks owners to lose access to their weeks.

I do see limited evidence that certain weeks are less available to weeks owners in favor of points owners. From what I've been able do discern from my knowledge of the system, experience making certain high demand reservations with both weeks and points plus talking to various people within MVC over time, the weeks that are elected plus reserved on points are not distributed across a given season equally. That means that a higher % of weeks could be reserved with points for a high demand week over a lower demand week. The total number is set based on the number of weeks elected plus owned by the trust within a given season. As I see it, here is the order of those most likely to get a given week within a floating season. I'll ignore fixed or plus/event weeks.

1. Weeks owners reserving more than 13 months out from a given week.
2. Points reserving minute one at 13 months out.
3. Weeks owners reserving right at 13 months out.
4. Weeks owners reserving 12 months out for resorts with a Thursday start
5. Weeks owners at points owners at 12 months have equal access to what's left.

I do not feel this makes a big difference but I do feel is has a small advantage to points owners over weeks owners for the highest demand weeks in a floating season and likely swings a few units toward points and away from weeks for the highest demand weeks at larger resorts.

 

[MDteX]

Could be. There were some younger families but they all said their parents made the reservation for them. Maybe Hawaii skews towards an older demographic. It is very expensive.

This is true. I make lots of reservations for my kids to go places.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

We own only points with MVC, and have not had any issues booking what we wanted. The only real issue i have experienced is having enough points to book what i wanted, but once we had enough points its been pretty easy.

 

[jp10558]

I still think AirBnB is massively overhyped on TUG or maybe just by Cliff as a competitor to worry about. I mean, in the broadest sense it's a competitor sure. So is bartering yard work for couch surfing.

In the slightly narrower sense, AirBnB mostly IMHO competes with VRBO and Vacasa etc. The reason is - staying in a random house is very different from staying in a hotel or resort. AirBnB doesn't have a good online reputation - there's about as many horror stories on youtube and reddit as there are for timeshares but for very different reasons. It's also the case that there's continued legal grey area around AirBnB that mostly doesn't exist with hotels or timeshares.

Comparing AirBnB to a timeshare is tenuous due to lack of professional staff on hand for issues, lack of amenities (will it have a pool? hot tub? golf? any activities at all?) and what is the neighborhood like? Is everyone giving the AirBnB people side eye cause they hate the short term rental market there?

However, the biggest problem with AirBnB is the cost is just not really competitive anymore. As others have said, the fees make most resort fees look like peanuts. Often searching an area where I could choose AirBnB or Timeshares, the AirBnB is more expensive for a week. For quite a few when I've looked both up, it's been significantly more expensive.

I'd argue that AirBnB has lost their main advantage, the low low price. Unlike Uber or Amazon, AirBnB isn't more convenient than hotel bookings (or timeshare bookings in a lot of cases) and they don't do any quality control so it's not necessarily a better experience and they have 0 lock in - no buy in like timeshares, no reason for "brand loyalty" as they're not really a brand etc and they cost more. I know people who just look up a Hilton and book it cause of rewards points, or just get a car brand because of familiarity or identity. I don't know anyone who looks at AirBnB that way - it's compared to booking.com or whatever, and anything else they have and then whatever seems the best value is booked. I feel like AirBnB is meeting that level less and less. Then again, AirBnB never hit that value for me to book with them so I don't *necessarily* know what I'm talking about here, but I do see it a lot online people feeling the same way.

I feel like most timeshare systems sales pitches don't really need to address AirBnB.

 

[klpca]

I'm still in my 40's and never thought I would own a time share from all the negative impressions/reputation I've heard through media and other people. I think people generally still think you can only go to one location with a timeshare. Since owning, I've found more and more people in my age group are also owners. Maybe we are still hesitant to openly share that we are timeshare owners....

Having said all that, I think late 30's and 40's is a good age to own a timeshare. Owners will be more financially stable and be able to handle the responsibility of learning a timeshare system and making it work.

Also, while I will still be open to Airbnbs as an alternative, I did not have great experiences with Airbnb. I still found rentals to be hit or miss (looked bigger in the pictures, wifi going out, etc.) So I am happy to have found timeshares and now it's my first choice for accommodations especially when traveling with a group.

@Clifbell Thank you for the informative videos!

I think there are more younger owners than you think. Just depends what resorts you are at and what time of year. If you are traveling when school is in session you are much more likely to encounter a much older crowd. I would also say for specific events like owner meet and greets and management updates and things like that its much more likely to skew older.

I am only in my 30s and I love being a Marriott owner! My family and I can travel so much more than we ever could using an AirBNB or VRBO which I find to be way overpriced for anything in nice places.

I am so happy to see these posts. I think that in terms of user experience, timeshares are far superior to AirBnbs and are perfect for traveling families. I am in my 60s now and we have been timesharing since 2011 and prior to that stayed in vacation rentals for years. We had some real snafus over the years with vacation rentals, and while I will use a one if nothing else is available, my preference is for timeshares. I only wish that we had been able to own a timeshare when our kids were younger. We just couldn't pull the trigger back then and I didn't know about resales.

 

[ljmiii]

I still think AirBnB is massively overhyped...I mean, in the broadest sense it's a competitor sure. So is bartering yard work for couch surfing.

Brilliant!

 

[AlmostRetired]

Reservations using points and trading weeks into II are two different sides of the same coin with a number of things in common. They both are highly dependent on week owners to create inventory for platinum and gold season. They both offer a 13 month advantage though the points advantage is significant. They both rely on a contentious system where everyone wants that little advantage. They both require hard work and flexibility to be successful. You can be successful with either but you will be more successful with both.