My Advice to Hilton Grand Vacations... Timeshare Traveler Episode 200

[cd5]

Was this actually HVC points to book into DEX? Currently there is no DEX for HGVC points. One can use HVC (former DRI Collection points) to book through DEX.

Embarc is HGVC and has DEX (initiated by Diamond 2 years ago). I know we're not true "Hilton" but just want to correct that point.

 

[cd5]

My impression is that the upgrades to DRI and BG will be mostly cosmetic, changing signage, etc. Lipstick on a pig, not the least interested in Max.

I know nothing of BG, but I've read that DRI annual fees are higher per point than some of the HGVC properties, mostly because DRI charged higher management fees. They can adjust point values but I doubt they will lower fees, so it's no wonder DRI owners are not thrilled with Max either.

I recently stayed at Embarc Vancouver and the only HGVC logos spotted were on some hospitality awards behind the concierge desk.

The Vancouver location as well as Panorama and Ucluelet will not be officially rebranded to HGVC because they are not Embarc buildings. They are in a resort/hotel owned by another entity - the Vancouver Embarc is in the Sheraton Wall Centre - Marriott won't allow rebranding of just the top 3 floors of one of the towers....with a competitor's brand.

 

[mikeyg76]

I really hope HGVC builds more HGVC resorts, the entire Caribbean (outside Barbados) is wide open, along with Mexico (outside of Cabo).

My guess is that they will not build anymore though and just try to cash in on the diamond and BG buy. It’s truly a shame because HGVC could really compete with Marriott if they wanted to.

 

[Clifbell]

Personally, I just don't see why anyone would buy Max. I think the obvious win is the little I saw in my one presentation on DEX though. It seems to me like it could be an RCI competitor in a way. Though Max DEX seems different from DEX through Craig. The Max DEX shown to me (this is probably not really a thing, TS salesperson) but the site showed using HGVC points to book in DEX, and at least some "screaming deals" in off season - like 3500pts weeks in 2BR. Yes, these are RCI level resorts, but RCI conversions from HGVC seem more like 7300pts for that. Even more so, I'd like to see some competitive pressure on RCI to get exchange fees down.

I still think in general - no Developer really has a reason to make things more enticing to retail owners, what they've got works, at least for traditional timeshare owners. It would potentially make a difference in resale markets, but of course the developer wants to pretend resale just doesn't exist.

For TUG people, I see locations being of some interest in Diamond, but not enough to buy developer, and honestly, not enough to buy Diamond points. I see enough Diamond in RCI, and RCI Extra Vacations at that - at prices sub $1k for a 2BR. So for us, it'd need to compete with that.

Now, the thing on locations is - I can imagine there are different sorts of timeshare users - those like me, who at least right now are trying a new place every trip, and those who have one or maybe a few places they go to every time. The latter won't care about more locations. People like me do care, but not for the cost of Max especially the limitations of it.

To compete with AirB&B would require a different marketing method IMO, and one that may break their current generally successful system. That said, I think the internet has enough people with bad posts about AirB&B and bad news stories that their reputation is also just a little above timeshares, so there's at least a chance. The thing is, AirB&B is 0 membership, 0 commitment, and mostly ebay levels of support at best. Which in a lot of ways is what I think people in their 40s and younger want - we don't really want high touch sales, or needing to call in to CS to book or desire any sort of travel agent etc. All things the timeshare companies are doing or seem to be pursuing.

The hotel chains have answers to a lot of this, and some have speculated the more "long stay" sort of hotels is really their bid to compete with AirB&B. Timeshares could have an effective sales pitch, but really only resale, which again I don't think helps the developers so... Yea.

I was also wondering if the hotels are best suited to compete with AirBnb. I think your points are valid. But I think the potential to take business from AirBnB. I have enjoyed a lot of the Diamond properties. There are several in California that I really like. I hope they upgrade then so that the Hilton Brand remains strong. I do worry that the quality of some of the resort needs work.

 

[letsgobobby]

i may be in the minority but when i bought hgvc i was happy with the locations and network they already had. I'm at the point in my life where i don't let the availability of a good deal or a cheap hotel or timeshare necessarily dictate where I take a vacation. I'm happy to be surprised once in a while but going to Gatlinburg or Phoenix or Indiana aren't why I bought Hawaii and NYC.

I knew HGVC was weak in Europe and bought anyway. Adding Vincennes is NOT tempting. Vincennes is not Paris and Mougins is not Nice and Malaga is neither Madrid nor Barcelona nor San Sebastian.

So they can upgrade those locations all they want, I'm not interested. I have scanned all the Max locations and the number of new properties of interest is basically 5-6 mostly Embarc. Will BG resorts tempt me, it seems unlikely.

Now add the Latin Quarter in Paris, or the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, or central Biarritz, and I'm all ears.

 

[Reddart]

So you think the additional offerings to Max is like putting ketchup as lipstick on a pig?

Yeah, me too.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

I own in several timeshare brands...HGV whatever name you want to call it is the most difficult (maybe just me) to navigate. I never feel like I am maximizing my ownership as so many rules/complications/websites/names-that-sound-similar-but-are-not

 

[ljmiii]

HGV whatever name you want to call it is the most difficult (maybe just me) to navigate. I never feel like I am maximizing my ownership...

To us HGVC is by far the easiest to use. When we want to stay in our home resort (which is most of the time), we just make a Home Week reservation. No prayers to the heavens, nor simultaneous browsers and phone calls at 9:00:00AM in the desperate hope of being able to reserve our week or points at 13 months as with MVC. No having to walk forever to get the room we want at our Home Resort at 11 months as with DVC.

And if you are willing to accept the limitation of staying in one or more of HGVC's major locations - Oahu, the Big Island, Orlando, Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach, and Carlsbad - and aren't picking about resort, you can buy the cheapest points available and have a realistic expectation of being able to book at 276 days in any of them. Even NYC if you have some flexibility about dates.

I wish HGV was interested in expanding HGVC rather than growing through acquisitions. But then again I wish that MVC was still interested in selling (enrolled) weeks instead of just their points product.

 

[jp10558]

I own in several timeshare brands...HGV whatever name you want to call it is the most difficult (maybe just me) to navigate. I never feel like I am maximizing my ownership as so many rules/complications/websites/names-that-sound-similar-but-are-not

I think HGVC and Wyndham are about the same difficulty for me. I really just go to the website and see what's available to me and when. I find you can't go by a resort list, or brochure because both wildly conflate their 2 or 3 separate systems in those and you can't actually book all locations. But your booking site knows what you can book and only shows you those locations. This works fine for someone like me who's actually wanting some help narrowing down "the entire world" for places to go, but if you're the other way round - I want to go to location X... I do wonder if any of the timeshare systems make that much sense vs RCI membership, and stepping back if timeshare ownership makes any sense at all.

If anyone asked me, I'd be saying that trying to expand on the cheap by buying systems and faking interoperability like Max or Club Pass isn't a great sales pitch if it were a normal market. Timeshares aren't though. Confusing people in the sales is already inherent so confusing them more might even be seen as a plus. Timeshares already have a horrible reputation, so there's no brand risk here at all. They mostly can't hurt the brand any more, when you're already at Therenos levels. So it clearly is working for them.

What I'd like to see is more focus on making things a win win vs basically tricking people into giving them money with what I still don't understand isn't seen as fraud. Buying another system is fine, but I think they basically need to buy out the system and existing owners with an offer to convert to the HGVC system or take a small cash payout to surrender the deed or RTU or whatever. So they can actually integrate the systems fully. However, this costs more money than just slapping an exchange on top.

Wyndham has a lot more availability than HGVC beyond 276 days to the day. A lot of the problem with the points product for me is actually how it seems to have a day or 2 here and there, but it's far harder to get a block of days that would make sense for me. I'm not going to fly out to somewhere or drive 8+ hours for 2 or 3 days. Even Wyndham has lots of blocks of Mon-Thur and that's it. Obviously way more people than I thought plan a long weekend or just a weekend out months. For me, if it's just a weekend I'm usually not needing to plan that at all, and aside from glancing at last calls would likely just get a hotel.

 

[brp]

i may be in the minority but when i bought hgvc i was happy with the locations and network they already had. I'm at the point in my life where i don't let the availability of a good deal or a cheap hotel or timeshare necessarily dictate where I take a vacation. I'm happy to be surprised once in a while but going to Gatlinburg or Phoenix or Indiana aren't why I bought Hawaii and NYC.

I agree. As far as I can see, nothing has changed for HGVC owners. Maybe the FOMO of not getting the extra stuff, but that's a different issue. The original contention of this thread doesn't make sense to me either.

Cheers.

 

[brp]

I own in several timeshare brands...HGV whatever name you want to call it is the most difficult (maybe just me) to navigate. I never feel like I am maximizing my ownership as so many rules/complications/websites/names-that-sound-similar-but-are-not

It can be, if one wants to use it that way. We bought when it was just HGVC. As far as I'm concerned, it still just HGVC to us. I go to one website, pick my destination and dates and book (if available, of course). Not complicated in that original use model.

Cheers.

 

[elaine]

We bought when it was just HGVC. As far as I'm concerned, it still just HGVC to us. I go to one website, pick my destination and dates and book (if available, of course)

I have a SW FL HGVC acquired to use most years. I joined HGVC to have flex when I don't use it. That has worked fine for us. We have enjoyed other HGVC high quality units. However, although DRI/BG/MAX doesn't affect our current HGVC usage, I think HGVC is unlikely to build many new HGVC properties. As there are few, if any, DRI/BG places we'd want to stay, we'll likely not acquire additional HGVC points. I wonder if other current HGVC owners feel the same?

 

[jp10558]

I have a SW FL HGVC acquired to use most years. I joined HGVC to have flex when I don't use it. That has worked fine for us. We have enjoyed other HGVC high quality units. However, although DRI/BG/MAX doesn't affect our current HGVC usage, I think HGVC is unlikely to build many new HGVC properties. As there are few, if any, DRI/BG places we'd want to stay, we'll likely not acquire additional HGVC points. I wonder if other current HGVC owners feel the same?

I think it really depends on how many points you have, where you want to go etc. With HGVC I've only been to Ocean Enclave so far. I only have 11,200 pts, and could certainly use more, but OTOH, because they only have a few different locations, after I've been to Vegas and Miami Beach this year - and Carlsbad next year... IDK if I'll want to go back to any of the locations every year necessarily. So for places I might go, there's Orlando (but really I can also do Wyndham or RCI just as easily there), and maybe Scotland or Italy... I'm probably not going to Vegas every few years, and NYC is too small units - I really want 2BR. And they cost a lot of points. Then again, I am continually tempted by a Scotland deed - you also get DeX that way apparently now. And more points would make it realistic to maybe do NYC occasionally.

However, all the above said, there's also way more Wyndham places I could go, and for Europe Hapimag... Long story short - if HGVC actually added more locations - not another resort in Orlando or Vegas or Myrtle Beach, but somewhere new, that might increase the incentive - but that's on the resale side.

At least the one graphic in this thread implies that maybe HGVC actually isn't trying to get existing owners to buy more points here, more to get DRI and Bluegreen owners to buy more points in HGVC? Though the sales pitch was all DRI back in April.

 

[dazzlingheart]

I wanted to provide Hilton Grand Vacation a list of what they should do more of to improve their program. I consider myself an experienced traveler and knowledgable of their program. But I also have some ideas on how the program could be better.

In this video, I go through the major opportunities for Hilton Grand Vacations. I try to express the opportunity from Hilton's perspective but also why it would be good for owners. The first opportunity is the benefit of expanding the program to more locations. The second is the upgrading of the purchased locations making new locations better. The third is access to the new locations by owners of the other groups (Diamond access to Hgv and visa versa). The last issue is destination exchange and how that can be made competitive to AirBnB.

My Advice to Hilton Grand Vacations... Timeshare Traveler Episode 200

Map of all my timeshare reviews

I watched this video! I've watched all your tips/advice videos regarding HGV and HGV Max. Very good information, especially about how to calculate when you will start seeing ROI in the form of cheaper vacations after paying off your initial purchase. I also enjoyed watching the videos about how to stretch points. I have to wait for our membership to officially begin in January 2025 to get full access to Destination Xchange (DEX) and Open Season, but I am looking forward to taking advantage of Express Xscapes where you supposedly can book last minute within 30 days, 7-night vacations for 50% off points and Destination Xtras where you can book 7-night vacations for cash starting at $299. Also, I like no booking fees for in network resorts! I am thoroughly pleased with our timeshare thus far. And, thanks to you, I got a little bootcamp on how to make the most of things. Thank you!

 

[Clifbell]

I watched this video! I've watched all your tips/advice videos regarding HGV and HGV Max. Very good information, especially about how to calculate when you will start seeing ROI in the form of cheaper vacations after paying off your initial purchase. I also enjoyed watching the videos about how to stretch points. I have to wait for our membership to officially begin in January 2025 to get full access to Destination Xchange (DEX) and Open Season, but I am looking forward to taking advantage of Express Xscapes where you supposedly can book last minute within 30 days, 7-night vacations for 50% off points and Destination Xtras where you can book 7-night vacations for cash starting at $299. Also, I like no booking fees for in network resorts! I am thoroughly pleased with our timeshare thus far. And, thanks to you, I got a little bootcamp on how to make the most of things. Thank you!

Thank you. I like the direction Hilton is going in general. I am looking forward to seeing some of the upgrades and the beginnings of Bluegreen integrations.

 

[Clifbell]

It can be, if one wants to use it that way. We bought when it was just HGVC. As far as I'm concerned, it still just HGVC to us. I go to one website, pick my destination and dates and book (if available, of course). Not complicated in that original use model.

Cheers.

I think Bluegreen will complicate matters as well. I think it will get worse before it gets better, but I am optimistic it will get better. Hilton feels like the company making the most investments. I am hoping owners benefit from the investment (again... I am an optimist so please factor that into your thinking).

 

[heitmullerj02]

All I know is since they have integrated, it costs me more points to get my home week with HGVC. Has anyone else noticed the point increase? I purchased 8k points for a week @ Lagoon Tower but when I booked my home week it cost 9280 points. What gives? I had to borrow From the Marbrisa account which means I will not get a week there next year. Just another way to get us buying more points.

 

[SmithOp]

All I know is since they have integrated, it costs me more points to get my home week with HGVC. Has anyone else noticed the point increase? I purchased 8k points for a week @ Lagoon Tower but when I booked my home week it cost 9280 points. What gives? I had to borrow From the Marbrisa account which means I will not get a week there next year. Just another way to get us buying more points.

You did not make a Home Season Booking, those points never change (other than the 1.6 adjustment we had when DRI merged). It looks like you made a club season in the next size, a Plus instead of Std in gold season.

 

[heitmullerj02]

No I own a gold week, can only go midMay to mid June or mid Sept to Oct. I am going inSept for 8k points but when I traded @ 1 year out for May25, they wanted more points. No transaction fee so it has to be my home week.

 

[heitmullerj02]

And I own a 2 bed plus which is in my sales contract.

 

[dayooper]

@heitmullerj02

Did you pay a club booking fee when you originally booked? 8000 points has been the standard 2 bedroom gold season rate since the 1.6 adjustment (was 5000 before). If you own a gold 2 bedroom plus, it should cost 9280 points.

 

[SmithOp]

And I own a 2 bed plus which is in my sales contract.

A 2 BR Plus is 9280, so I don't understand why you say you purchased 8000 points, that's a standard unit.

 

[Mowogo]

My problem with Max is specifically how they handle Embarc properties, which makes HGV extremely untrustworthy. I have no problem as a HGVC member not having access to HVC properties because I have not bought into that sub system. What I do have a problem with is them adding new Embarc as HGVC properties that are only accessible through Max or RCI. The whole point of buying into a system and paying higher fees for said system is that you benefit from the growth, but by putting Embarc behind the Max firewall for legacy HGVC owners they make every non-Max HGVC member have to deal with the issue of seeing HGVC resorts, but not being able to book them. While they hope to get people to pay to upgrade for full access, it just shows how untrustworthy HGV management is in that they can play this game again with a future acquisition even if I do get the Max upgrade now.

 

[dayooper]

My problem with Max is specifically how they handle Embarc properties, which makes HGV extremely untrustworthy. I have no problem as a HGVC member not having access to HVC properties because I have not bought into that sub system. What I do have a problem with is them adding new Embarc as HGVC properties that are only accessible through Max or RCI. The whole point of buying into a system and paying higher fees for said system is that you benefit from the growth, but by putting Embarc behind the Max firewall for legacy HGVC owners they make every non-Max HGVC member have to deal with the issue of seeing HGVC resorts, but not being able to book them. While they hope to get people to pay to upgrade for full access, it just shows how untrustworthy HGV management is in that they can play this game again with a future acquisition even if I do get the Max upgrade now.

Eh, Embarc is a different animal altogether. Their charter has it so members from other systems can’t book from outside. Sure, there can be exchanges but the system is already in place for Max. The big test is if they actually build a new property. If it’s Max only, than we have an issue. Since I don’t think it will be soon they build one, we won’t know for awhile.

 

[letsgobobby]

Eh, Embarc is a different animal altogether. Their charter has it so members from other systems can’t book from outside. Sure, there can be exchanges but the system is already in place for Max. The big test is if they actually build a new property. If it’s Max only, than we have an issue. Since I don’t think it will be soon they build one, we won’t know for awhile.

the last they built Maui is in HGVC